r/HermanCainAward Sep 16 '22 Helpful 1

Scientists debate how lethal COVID is. Some say it's now less risky than flu Meta / Other

622 Upvotes

809

u/ystavallinen Sep 16 '22

Perfectly valid science debate.... that people will purposefully misinterpret to suit their cognitive bias.

Get your shot(s). Be glad that your risk may be lower.

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u/samanime Sep 16 '22

Yup. This is the problem with "science" today. There isn't actually a problem with the science itself, but most people get their "scientific" information fourth or fifth hand, far removed from the actual literature itself. And they usually get it through sources that put their own spin on it to suit their own agendas or to spice it up, so you end up with black-and-white takes that are far, far removed from the actual nuance of the original literature.

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u/Thowitawaydave Paradise by the ECMO Lights Sep 16 '22

Every time my wife's cousin talks about some shit she saw on GMA or Today, I brace myself for the deluge of nonsense she is about to spew. "Did you hear that eating chocolate and drinking red wine is healthy?!?" No, Denise, I didn't, but I also highly doubt that they mean eating an entire tub of chocolate ice cream while drinking an entire bottle of wine...

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u/Mattbryce2001 Sep 17 '22

Dying is the most powerful antioxidant.

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u/A-man-of-mystery Covidious Albion Sep 17 '22

😆

Strictly speaking, of course, it isn't: bodies decay after death, and that process involves oxidation. It's why food is often packed in an oxygen-free atmosphere.

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u/bortmcgort77 Sep 17 '22

That’s why i wanna be thrown up On the backstop of the local baseball field. And just left there.

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u/matts2 Sep 17 '22

How big a tub?

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u/Tatunkawitco Sep 17 '22

Sounds like Denise would respond in a drunken stupor, with chocolate around her lips - Well screw you!

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u/MartyMcFlybe Sep 17 '22

Or people don't understand that science is constantly learning. Yes, perhaps last year we said xyz was a risk, and this year we're saying it isn't. That's not last year being a Big Pharma Lie. It's just that we've put in the research and discovered more.

People are too willing to strike info down because they want to not believe it, or make an argument of it. But science will never stop teaching us new things AND amending old knowledge.

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u/RedditOnANapkin Sep 16 '22

For me the vaccines have been a game changer. Not only are they effective they have given me peace of mind that I won't be hospitalized or worse if I catch it.

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u/Thowitawaydave Paradise by the ECMO Lights Sep 16 '22

Yeah, I've had a couple major brain surgeries, and without the vaccines, I would be trapped in my room still.

339

u/omgFWTbear Sep 16 '22 Helpful Starry

My wife has gotten every shot / booster she could. A few days after the 2 week warming up period from her most recent shot, she contracted COVID.

She had a debilitating fight for two weeks, with three nights of me watching her sleep to ensure she didn’t stop breathing - her o2 dropped to 65% which for those who haven’t had the pleasure, 85% is the level doctors have told us they take notice, and 95-99% are normal levels (with dips to the low 90’s not being noteworthy). We had machine intervention, therapy, a lot.

Weeks later, she’s “better.” She tires easily - it’s all she can do to get through the workday. Little things like going to the pool or going for walks are so exhausting she does them less, if at all.

But she’s not dead.

And, plenty of research suggesting that subsequent COVID infections will be relatively worse, so even as strains become less brutal, they’ll still be worse for the repeat travelers.

But she’s not dead.

I’m reminded of a time when the executive I was working for wanted an analysis of the impact a change he had made was, to the organization. It was not McDonalds (not even in their industry), but for conversation’s sake it can be thought of as loosely fitting the profile - some facilities open during “lunch rush,” some 24/7, some busy all the time, some with lots of traffic but even through the day, any variation you can imagine. Anyway, as one might imagine, seeing long lines one might have an idea for improving customer processing times, right? Except that our central data was “length of time a queue is occupied.” One person waiting one second looks identical to 500 people waiting an hour.

Homeboy demanded an average of seconds, across all facilities, that there was at least 1 empty queue per second, contrasting before/after from just one day. On top of any seasonal variations, this didn’t account for silly things like a facility only opened for a 2 hour lunch rush (looks like it has open queues for 22 hours). On top of the above problems. And also, facilities that opened / closed between those two dates were not controlled for. Complete garbage data.

Now, back to mortality rates. What’s this about the average number of people dead per day in the current wave and projected virulence without any of the known caveats entering into the analysis and not a single f—ing model being thrown in and ignoring the huge impact labor data is clearly telling us?

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u/AinsiSera Sep 16 '22

But even the labor data is going to be skewed by feelings - how many families with young children realized they could get by with 1 income during the pandemic (because they had to), so maybe they should just keep (let's be honest) mom home with the kids for now. You know, until things settle down. Same with adults - how many older Americans realized they didn't actually have to work, at least for now? Downsize, cash out of that house that's suddenly worth bank, live on the proceeds for at least a few years, maybe to bridge to proper retirement age.

Anyway, I appreciated your anger at poor data. I'm in science and my new job is basically finding nice ways to say "your model is bad and you should feel bad!"

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u/spudzilla Sep 16 '22

Bingo. I got out in my late fifties after watching some same-age friends die or get debilitating diseases. We decided that enjoying retired life together now was better than the risk of waiting because you will have more money to buy a second winter home or something. I have now enjoyed almost ten years of retirement. I will never own that coastal beach condo I dreamed of. But the time spent together enjoying every day for its full 24 hours is worth way more than a second home ever will be worth.

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u/Perigee-Apogee Get the Jabby-Jabby Sep 16 '22

Also the huge number of health care workers and other "front line" workers (first responders, etc) who decided that the long hours, staff shortages, lack of respect from customers/patients and management, etc., was too much for their health or sanity and either quit or retired early. (Yes, many were women, although not all.)

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u/AinsiSera Sep 17 '22

Exactly: how many people were out of work for months or years and realized “you know what? I don’t actually need this job!”

Especially parents of young children. If you had a young child during the pandemic, there was a good chance your childcare provider closed. At least where I am, you needed to continue to pay a significant amount of money to hold your place. When they reopened, any exposure resulted in weeks at a time of closures - and you’re still paying full price for no childcare.

Childcare is expensive. How many families did the math and said “look, we were breaking even when we both worked and the kid(s) went to daycare, but now having to take so many days off, it’s costing us tons of money. If someone quits, it’ll result in more income for us.”

Now they’re used to it, they’re getting by, and the thought of leaving that and going back to getting screamed at by customers just to pay for daycare again is…..why? Especially if you’ve lost trust in the system to actually provide options for your children so you can work.

This is going to reverberate for the next 5-10 years+.

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u/Perigee-Apogee Get the Jabby-Jabby Sep 17 '22

Also maybe some parents are discovering (or re-discovering) the joy of bonding with their little ones during the normal course of daily life without all the workday rush and stress.

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u/AinsiSera Sep 17 '22

Yeah, it’s one of those things that changes the math because humans are squishy and have feelings - how many wanted to stay home, truly, and it doesn’t matter what the math is, and this was the chance to do that? Or, the math is that the customers are worse, and it tipped the scales? Or even just inspired a thought of “it doesn’t have to be like this”?

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u/FargusDingus Sep 16 '22

And, plenty of research suggesting that subsequent COVID infections will be relatively worse, so even as strains become less brutal, they’ll still be worse for the repeat travelers.

Some people will be damaged by covid. If you're still damaged by the time you get it again you're likely to get damaged further due to being at a worse starting point. Cumulative covid damage will cause some people to die on infection 3/4 or more. It's not always survive perfectly or die with this thing. Focusing on death rate alone is the wrong approach.

I hope your wife gets better.

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u/Either-Percentage-78 Sep 16 '22

I hope your wife makes a full recovery. Her experience with Covid sounds very similar to mine. It's been nearly two months now and altho I mostly feel fine again, I get winded easily compared to before Covid. I wish my husband would mask up more again. He seems to think that since it hasn't been 3 months that we're fine. It's pretty frustrating.

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u/See_You_Space_Coyote Sep 17 '22

If I've learned anything on reddit, it's that no matter what you do, covid can and probably will leave you a shell of yourself if you survive a brush with it.

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u/A-man-of-mystery Covidious Albion Sep 17 '22

"Probably" is overstating things. Although it certainly can do that, most people will have a comparatively mild illness and make a full recovery. The worse it is, the more likely you are to have long covid; risk factors include admission to hospital, admission to ICU, and requiring ventilation.

We shouldn't take risks if we don't have to, but remember here on reddit we see the worst cases because they're interesting, not because they are the majority.

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u/Aazjhee Owned Lib Sep 16 '22

Wow. That's super intense and I hope she recovers steadily steadily. How absolutely skinny or absolutely scary for both of you I hope that she can make A full recovery with no long term effects. :(

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u/PackageintheMaleBox Team Pfizer Sep 16 '22

I was talking to my husband about how lucky we are that covid was "mild". If it wasn't so infectious it wouldn't be that big of a deal.

I fear for the next pandemic, the next virus might have a higher kill rate.

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u/ystavallinen Sep 16 '22

The irony is the balance between communicability, contagiousness, virulence, and lethality.

In an ecological context, if something is really contagious, virulent, and deadly it kills off the hosts faster than it can spread in the population. In order to successfully rise to the level of a pandemic a (naturally occurring) disease has to dial back the virulence and lethality a little. Such diseases have been somewhat rare in history... but smallpox and Spanish flu are stand outs. But that explains why some of the recent really severe SARS MERSA infections never became pandemics.

What's really remarkable about Covid-19 is the degree to which social engineering has facilitated the successful spread and evolution of the disease.

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u/Cultural-Answer-321 Deadpilled 💀 Sep 16 '22

What's really remarkable about Covid-19 is the degree to which social engineering has facilitated the successful spread and evolution of the disease.

This is an historical event. Mass hysteria against containment of a deadly illness facilitated by instant worldwide communication at the individual level along with huge resources dedicated to deliberate disinformation that outright kills millions.

Future people will NEVER stop asking, WTF? WTaF?!

This makes the superstitions of the Black Plague looks like an innocent mistake.

edit: added last paragraph

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u/ystavallinen Sep 16 '22

It was the middle ages. It could well be that some person who was on to the right idea about diseases was tied to a rock and drowned for being a witch.

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u/Cultural-Answer-321 Deadpilled 💀 Sep 16 '22

They were!

I can't find the article, but there was persecutions.

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u/onthedownhillslope Sep 16 '22

WE were asking WTAF because every epidemic goes through these same responses. “Pandemic: Anatomy of a Plague” was running on Prime Video in January 2020. The Montreal Smallpox Epidemic in the 1880’s followed the same challenges of medical response lag time, fear, racism, and nutty refusal to cooperate with containment measures/vaccination as other epidemics/pandemics including the Black Death. The wonderful “Contagion” included that nuttiness, so clearly that response is expected by researchers and so should be included in any epidemic response plan. Of course in no case was the highest level of government leadership expected to ignore a carefully-crafted response plan and then join in the crazy part, so thank you Trump for giving the story an unexpected twist. Now THAT is the WTF for future people.

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u/Choano It's not a ventilator! It's a freedom tube! Sep 17 '22 edited Sep 17 '22

I wish Trump had been the only head of state to give the story an unexpected twist. Sadly, many others did, too.

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u/A-man-of-mystery Covidious Albion Sep 17 '22

Yes, the public's nuttiness was nothing new. The craziness of some governments was much more unexpected.

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u/Aazjhee Owned Lib Sep 16 '22

If you look into the way people reacted to the Spanish flu do the Spanish flu, it is absolutely shocking how much it parallels covid. There were plenty of people who were unwilling to follow scientific advice. Also lots of quacks selling fake remedies. I forget exactly which virus or disease it was in San Francisco but around the turn of the century there was a huge outbreak in the city which started in which started in the Chinese Part of town. Naturally everyone blamed filthy foreigners and there was a lot of racist rhetoric about how white peoples immune systems were far too strong to get sick. About a month after a lot of people got sick that's sick in the initial outbreak, tons of white folks started getting sick and dying. That was when it started to make a public outcry for the mayor and other officials to actually do something about it . The thing that shocked me was that it was only mildly more racis a more racist and awful than with covid. Edit: pretty sure it was a relative of Black Plague?

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u/Thowitawaydave Paradise by the ECMO Lights Sep 16 '22

I remember seeing Jon Stewart remotely appearing on Colbert in the early days of the pandemic. He was reading about what the recommendations were from the last big pandemic, thinking that surely we've advanced a great deal in 100 years. But the recommendations were the same - stay home, wash your hands, wear a mask, avoid crowds. And we couldn't even do that

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u/A-man-of-mystery Covidious Albion Sep 17 '22

Though the media kept repeating the word "unprecedented" it really wasn't. There were several pandemics during the 20th century, plus Sars-CoV-1 and H1N1 flu in the 21st. Initially the exact characteristics of the novel coronavirus weren't known, but the basic principles of infection control remain the same. It's disappointing that people weren't willing to do it, but that wasn't unprecedented either.

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u/Thowitawaydave Paradise by the ECMO Lights Sep 17 '22

I mean, we're still a society that gets shocked and heartbroken every time there is a mass shooting, especially at a school, but yet refuse to make any changes to prevent such a thing from happening again. I've become permanently stuck on "disappointed with humanity..."

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u/A-man-of-mystery Covidious Albion Sep 17 '22

I live in a society that did take action after a mass school shooting, in Dunblane, Scotland, in 1996. But society in the US has an attachment to guns that most of the developed world doesn't.

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u/Thowitawaydave Paradise by the ECMO Lights Sep 17 '22

Yeah, should have specified I'm currently living in the US, where for a certain segment of the population firearms are their replacement for a personality. When Newtown didn't lead to massive change like other places like Australia, I knew there will never be movement on guns.

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u/UnicornsFartRain-bow Sep 16 '22 edited Sep 16 '22

AFAIK it was the actual Black Plague. I watched a YouTube video on it recently that was super cool and I’ll edit with the link if I find it

Edit: https://youtu.be/VtG_5YHaWms

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u/tinyOnion Sep 16 '22

Future people will NEVER stop asking, WTF? WTaF?!

current me is asking that right now

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u/Tiddles_Ultradoom You Will Respect My Immunitah! Sep 16 '22

Unfortunately, during their pandemics, future people will face the idiocy we faced this time because we face the same idiocy every time.

Idiots gotta id.

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u/Iwouldlikeabagel Sep 16 '22

Present people won't stop asking, either.

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u/Thanmandrathor Sep 16 '22

The mobile game Plague Inc captured this perfectly. The goal was to unleash a virus on the world and infect everyone before you were found out/it killed itself off. It was a balance between deciding the features that made it easier to spread or more lethal.

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u/traktorhead Sep 16 '22

Covid is so dangerous because the low "kill rate" lulls people into thinking it's not dangerous.

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u/Thowitawaydave Paradise by the ECMO Lights Sep 16 '22

Them: "Who cares, it's only a 1-2% chance to kill you!"

Also Them: "I'm gonna buy 100 lotto tickets because I'm sure to win the powerball!"

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u/Lanky-Amphibian1554 Sep 16 '22

And polio has a similar paralysis rate. I can imagine this level of sickness getting completely normalized forever. Future generations not only won’t think we’re crazy, they won’t even know there was ever any other way.

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u/Choano It's not a ventilator! It's a freedom tube! Sep 17 '22 edited Sep 17 '22

We'll probably have a nasal vaccine by then--one that stops you from getting sick from COVID at all. Once that's available, enough people will take it to noticeably lower the infection rate. We'll still have plenty of hold-outs making things suck indirectly for the rest of us, though <sigh>.

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u/yuffie2012 Sep 16 '22

Mild? Tell that to the millions of people who have lost family members v

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u/Live-Tomorrow-4865 Sep 16 '22

Delta came close. When I look back at posts from around this time last year, I'm astonished at how fast and furious people were dying.

I pray Delta was the worst we'll get of this awful plague, but, I fear a worse variant could be gassing up for a cruise down the pike.

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u/A-man-of-mystery Covidious Albion Sep 17 '22 edited Sep 17 '22

Hopefully not, but we can't be certain of that. Governments reducing or discontinuing variant surveillance are running huge risks, and by the time we find out it will be far too late. (One of several reasons why the plan outlined in the Great Barrington Declaration was a terrible idea.)

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u/DougDougDougDoug Sep 17 '22

The first doctor quoted has been wrong about literally everything since COVID began. Once so horribly wrong she declared she would no longer make predictions. It’s basically no different than starting an article about climate change with a quote from a climate change denying scientist. Or as you call it “a perfectly valid science debate.”

Not framing her comments with her repeatedly failed predictions is misinformation by NPR. Anyway, looking forward to the 4th time she says it’s over and we’ve reached herd immunity.

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u/kittenmommy Team Mix & Match Sep 17 '22

Get your shot(s).

I can't get the new booster yet, because I HAVE A FUCKING COLD, GODDAMMIT.

FOUR negative COVID tests (one PCR!). The common cold is still a thing, guys. And it's kicking my ass. Colds always kick the shit out of me.

I haven't had a cold since 2019, so I'm extra salty. No clue how I got it.

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u/Caliveggie Sep 17 '22

Get your shots. Be glad that the risk may be lower. This applies to both Covid and the flu.

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u/disturbedtheforce Rotiserie🐔Got Expensive 💵 Sep 16 '22 Bravo!

Anecdotal, but fucking Long Covid pisses me off. Our whole house caught covid except my mother-in-law, all of us. My wife, myself, my 3 kids in early August. My middle child was the last to test positive, and it hit him the worst. He has no comorbidities, weighs a whopping 115 pounds, but the kid now has worsening migraines, ear issues, and fucking neuropathy/pain in his fingertips. All the doctor could say was have neuro check him out, but it is quite possible it is the start of Long Covid. At 13. Every asshole that refused to mask, refuses to get a damn shot of all things, can fuck right off. Some people shouldnt have the privilege to co-mingle in society if they cant care enough about their fellow humans to try and keep themselves and others safe.

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u/twoisnumberone Sep 17 '22

I have other post-viral / post-trauma damage, but, sending love to your kid. The pain is the worst (thought the neuropathy is the weirdest, and where I’m from wasn’t at all understood).

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u/See_You_Space_Coyote Sep 17 '22

People who refuse to mask in public are complicit in ensuring that not only will disabled and immunocompromised people be shut out of society forever, but that countless other people they interact with might die or become permanently disabled because of their selfishness and stupidity.

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u/[deleted] Sep 17 '22

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u/[deleted] Sep 18 '22

I haven't heard of long flu. Kind of makes me think that covid is actually worse than the flu.

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u/adamdoesmusic Sep 16 '22

I got that shit in June, my brain still hasn’t recovered and I still get more tired than usual. I’m in a “low risk age”, am “healthy”, and got three shots. It still kicked my ass harder than anything I’ve had in years, and I still feel it months later.

Don’t get me wrong, the flu is also awful and massively understated as a danger, but they’re full of shit if they’re trying to say Covid is equivalent or less risky.

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u/repsychedelic Sep 16 '22

Same. I'm young, healthy, and vaccinated, but I got it two months ago and I'm still feeling side effects. Much worse than any flu I've ever had, but everyone is different. I'm questioning why we need to place these infections in a hierarchy instead of just taking the necessary precautions from here on out when necessary.

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u/See_You_Space_Coyote Sep 17 '22

I don't know why the fuck anyone calls covid "mild." The mildest cases of covid I've ever seen anyone I know get, vaccinated or not, involved two weeks of bad cold type symptoms and coughing and fatigue that kept them lying around not able to do anything followed by lingering coughing for several weeks after that. I also know a shit ton of people who were sick enough to be hospitalized and some who lost the ability to do any kind of physical activity more intense than walking to the mailbox or cooking dinner.

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u/leamanc Sep 16 '22

Is flu killing around 400 Americans a day? No? Sounds like Covid is still worse than the flu.

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u/CDN-Ctzn Team Pfizer Sep 16 '22

And Covid isn’t seasonal.

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u/Thereisnoplaceforus Sep 17 '22

This! I was looking for this comment as soon as I read the topic.

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u/MeatballUnited Team Pfizer Sep 16 '22

Monica Gandhi is a crank and her peers in the profession are constantly proving her wrong. So often that she has said “I should probably not have said that” multiple times. Yet she get the top medical “opinion” in this article, while the people with actual history of expertise get the contrarian side of the article. She’s so committed to her whackadoodle medical opinions that she blocks her peers when they prove her ignorant on public forums. But she tells us what we WANT to hear. She should lose her platform based on all of the incorrect advice she has given during the pandemic. NPR can do better than this bs article.

Edit: spelling

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u/Reneeisme Sep 16 '22 edited Sep 16 '22

I am excited to read this but my own experience with several friends and acquaintances who died while infected with covid speaks to the counter-point. Technically, they died of conditions they had been living with successfully until the extreme stress of covid no longer allowed them to do so. If you discount deaths from heart disease or kidney failure that are fatally exacerbated by covid, you are dramatically undercounting COVID’s impact. The argument that we should only attribute covid deaths to those patients who are otherwise healthy and still die of the disease is a ridiculous attempt to sweep COVID’s impact under the rug.

The death of one resident of my mother’s nursing home came about six weeks after she got covid, and four weeks after she was discharged from the hospital. It was attributed to all the medical issues she had prior to infection and I’m sure she would have passed from those within the next year or two, but she was mobile and self sufficient before catching covid. She was communicative and engaged. She never got back out of bed or a hived anything like a full state of arousal again after contracting the illness and after six weeks of failing to wake up, west properly or leave her bed, she died. The timing of her decline was all covid, but we don’t even attribute those to covid.

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u/spaceyjaycey Team Moderna Sep 16 '22

What about long covid? Even if covid is less lethal long covid can make your life a living hell.

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u/chele68 I bind and rebuke you Qeteb Sep 16 '22

There is SO much we don’t know about the damage covid inflicts, from the immediate to the long term.

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u/spaceyjaycey Team Moderna Sep 16 '22

All i know is since covid i've seen a noticible uptick in afib cases in the ER. I don't have the official data, just a casual observation.

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u/goldenstethoscope Sep 16 '22

Thats so interesting. We have seen an increase in DVTs and pulmonary embolism

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u/LongjumpingFarmer478 Sep 16 '22

“Even people with mild to moderate symptoms from COVID can end up with long COVID," Fauci says. "That doesn't happen with influenza. It's a totally different ball game."

*But Gandhi also questions that. Much of the estimated risk for long COVID comes from people who got seriously ill at the start of the pandemic, she says. And if you account for that, the risk of long-term health problems may not be greater from COVID than from other viral infections like the flu, she says.

"It was really severe COVID that led to long COVID. And as the disease has become milder, we're seeing lower rates of long COVID," Gandhi says.*

I can’t even with this quote about long COVID. Talk to the people actually researching long COVID. Do they agree with this assessment. NO.

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u/Joealb123 Quantum Jeebus Healer Sep 16 '22

Just from an uneducated person such as myself I immediately thought about the COVID caused blood clots and googled "Can influenza cause blood clots" this was the 4th entry to come beck.

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2022/08/higher-risk-vein-blood-clots-covid-vs-flu-patients

This is not definitive on lethality but it is a good read.

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u/VintageJane Sep 16 '22

A friend of my was vaxxed and boosted when she caught COVID (after nearly 2 years of responsible masking and social distancing). Her symptoms were mostly gastrointestinal and she now struggles to go out to eat because the smell can trigger a crazy autoimmune reaction that makes her vomit almost instantly. Oh and her periods have been a total nightmare.

Like yeah, I’m less likely to die from COVID now but there’s this weird secondary autoimmune shit that could substantially lower my quality of life until ????. And I’m a woman so it’s less likely that it will be believed, researched, effectively “cured” or treated in the near future.

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u/MrAndycrank Sep 16 '22

I believe some scientists are being irresponsibly optimistic. I'm still young, extremely healthy and vaccinated but, a few days before getting my third shot (back when Omicron had just become the dominant variant), I caught it. From that moment, I developed tinnitus. Could it be just a coincidence? It might, but I'd be surprised if there weren't a correlation, especially since a British study evidenced a link between Covid and, amongst other illnesses, tinnitus. Therefore, no, it's not "just a flu", not even remotely.

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u/Sguru1 Sep 16 '22 edited Sep 16 '22

I’m not sure why the general public insists on associating influenza with this “just the flu” moniker. Influenza actually was also always associated with long term post infectious risks. Namely people who recover from the flu seemed to be at a particularly higher risk of having a heart attack in the following year. It’s part of why vaccination campaigns so aggressively targeted people with preexisting heart disease and risk factors.

There’s also been reports in the past of people having symptoms well after their bout with the flu that we either just called post viral syndrome or doctors told them “it’s anxiety” after the work up was negative.

Covid and long Covid are serious. But influenza should have also always been taken seriously. Idk why people always acted like it was just some silly mild inconvenience.

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u/Perigee-Apogee Get the Jabby-Jabby Sep 16 '22

I think maybe a lot of people equate the flu with a bad cold.

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u/JohnMayerismydad Sep 16 '22

The flu can also suck really, really badly. I caught it years ago and was bed ridden for a week. Didn’t feel like I could catch my breath again for about a year. Had to take steroids to be able to breath for that week too. The flu sucksss

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u/MizStazya Sep 16 '22

Yeah, I've had both influenza and covid after being vaccinated, and they were pretty equally horrible, with covid edging influenza out by a hair because I couldn't taste anything so even food didn't make me feel any better. Neither were "severe", but both kicked my ass for over a week.

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u/JohnMayerismydad Sep 16 '22

I’m glad I got lucky with my COVID case, just had an upset stomach. Unluckily it was right after they reduced the quarantine to 5 days and my work stopped giving paid sick time for it

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u/Pershing48 Sep 16 '22

I was about to say, I've seen studies of Long Covid that compared the rates of various symptoms to the lower but well known cognitive effects of influenza. I think it was something the general public wasn't really aware of.

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u/SabreCorp Sep 16 '22

The guy who owned Texas Roadhouse, Kent Taylor ended up killing himself apparently because the tinnitus he developed from covid became too much for him to bare.

As someone with mild tinnitus myself this has been one of my fears if I catch covid. I don’t know how I’ll deal with this getting worse.

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u/[deleted] Sep 16 '22 edited Sep 16 '22

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u/Velveteen_Dream_20 Sep 17 '22

I was just thinking of that dude when tinnitus was brought up.

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u/Goose_o7 I am The TOOTH FAIRY! Sep 16 '22

Therefore, no, it's not "just a flu", not even remotely.

Amen! These comparisons to the Flu represent the height of ignorance. Influenza has been with us since time immemorial and despite its ability to kill in rare instances, it is a manageable disease with a defined beginning, middle and end.

It doesn't leave you with permanent organ and tissue damage even after a mild or asymptomatic infection. What we still don't know about the long term health effects of COVID could fill the Grand Canyon.

All of this rush to put COVID behind us is a global disaster waiting to happen.

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u/OtherSpiderOnTheWall Sep 16 '22

It doesn't leave you with permanent organ and tissue damage even after a mild or asymptomatic infection.

Yes, it does. It even leaves scarring on bones, making it obvious who lived to old age and who died young when you're excavating old grave sites.

What influenza are you talking about?

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u/PolarThunder101 Sep 16 '22

To support your comment, quoting Taquet et al from The Lancet (https://doi.org/10.1016/S2215-0366(22)00260-7), “With omicron (n=39 845 in each cohort), there was a lower death rate than just before emergence of the variant, but the risks of neurological and psychiatric outcomes remained similar.”

Also, from Chen et al in the Journal of Infectious Diseases (https://doi.org/10.1093/infdis/jiac136) and as reported on by Healio (https://www.healio.com/news/infectious-disease/20220425/global-prevalence-of-long-covid-substantial-researchers-say), prevalence of Long COVID drops until about 60 days post-infection and then starts to rise again. This is easiest to see in the Healio article.

Based on peer-reviewed results such as Taquet et al and Chen et al, I personally assess that caution toward Long COVID is still warranted.

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u/kodaiko_650 Sep 16 '22

Long Covid is what I’m more concerned about at this point

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u/allgonetoshit Sep 16 '22

What, you've never heard of Long Flu and Long Pneumonia? /s

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u/Spartanswill2 Sep 16 '22

Pneumonia is a bitch and there is absolutely long pneumonia. They just don't call it that.

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u/spaceyjaycey Team Moderna Sep 16 '22

😂

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u/LikeAMan_NotAGod Go Give One Sep 16 '22

And shorter overall.

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u/Perigee-Apogee Get the Jabby-Jabby Sep 16 '22

Sadly.

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u/Techygal9 Team Bivalent Booster Sep 16 '22

The interesting thing is this may shed light upon other long term effects of viruses.

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u/metadarkgable3 Team Bivalent Booster Sep 17 '22

This is why I still wear an N95 or two surgical masks in indoor spaces. Long COVID frightens me in its randomness and ability to debilitate.

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u/faste30 Sep 16 '22

Im sure a lot of it revolves around how you FRAME the debate/question, that is something that ALWAYS has to be taken into account.

If they are saying these new variants, when you get them, are possibly not as deadly, maybe. But IIRC covid is still orders of magnitude more effective at spreading than the flu, so youre still far more likely to get it and be exposed to that 1/100 chance to dying, etc.

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u/MechDoll Sep 16 '22

I have been fully vaccinated and boosted, my entire household got covid. I felt life I had a very mild sinus infection. My kids, hubs (fully vaccinated too) all had fevers, aches, coughs.. Still got my kids vaccinated as soon as it was approved for them because they're so young. But I read that if you were/ are vaccinated fully and boosted and still happen to get a breakthrough infection, the odds are moreover in your favor and more likely that you potentially could be resistant to future variants.

So there is hope.

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u/faste30 Sep 16 '22

Possible. Its usually not as bad. Same goes for the flu after getting a flu vaccine. Vaccines dont stop you from getting it, it just gives your immune system a chance to become experienced in practice instead of actual combat. That means you dont risk losing that battle. But now that its experienced it has memory cells that it activates after its production of antibodies stops, hence the brief and milder infections. And more experience trains it even more.

Still, typically, its best to not get infected even if vaccinated just in case you happen to be one of the unlucky few who discover they have an immune deficiency thanks to covid. Just not AS BIG of a concern.

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u/MechDoll Sep 16 '22

ABSOLUTELY! I work in Healthcare, I have comorbidities. I have taken all sorts of precautions. But even doing all that. Still ended up with it & yeah it sucks, but I could only imagine that not doing anything, who knows what would've happened. And quite frankly, I hope to never find out.

It kills me with the amount of people who believe in the fallacy that ALL vaccines are supposed to protect you 100%. But the truth is they don't. All vaccines do exactly what you said. Just merely reduce the risks and possible severity of said afflictions if you happen to get them. But so many people love to use that bs argument of how this vaccine doesn't work 🙄

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u/alphalegend91 The Last GoFundMe Whisperer 💰 Sep 16 '22

It's good that scientists are having debates over this. It's not good when ordinary citizens that know nothing on the topic try to act like they know more than the scientists.

I know someone who is an immunologist graduate from Stanford and she was skeptical of the vaccines when they first came out, but ultimately got it because "the benefit far outweighed the consequences".

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u/OtherSpiderOnTheWall Sep 16 '22

It's not good when ordinary citizens that know nothing on the topic try to act like they know more than the scientists.

Case in point, this thread.

I'm no immunologist, but I know how to read and write a scientific paper.

There's a lot of people here pretending the article is saying "COVID is harmless!" - but it's really, really not saying that.

Nor is it making light of the amount of COVID still around.

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u/SimbaOne1988 Sep 16 '22 edited Sep 18 '22

After avoiding Covid for 2+ years I came down with it last week. I am immuno compromised. For the first 24 hours I could hardly breathe. My head was so stuffed up. On day two I got Paxlovid. It helped tremendously and by day five, I was feeling pretty good. 24 hours after I finish the medication, I started vomiting, I got a bad headache, and it felt like someone was taking a rake and pulling my liver out of my body. I have had four vaccines and I was three days short of getting the fifth. I am almost positive without the vaccinations I would have died of Covid. I do have to say that the repercussions of the paxlovid is way worse than the Covid. Both my ER and doctors offices are saying they are seeing dozens of people coming in with the same symptoms after going off. Trust me Covid is not like a cold. I am now three days off the med and I still feel awful, I’m dizzy I have a headache and I cant eat. I feel like I’ll never feel better again.

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u/wtfBethesda Sep 17 '22

Can you describe your experience with Paxlovid for those of us who may take it at some point?

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u/ccrom Team Bivalent Booster Sep 16 '22

"I'm sorry — I just disagree," says Dr. Anthony Fauci, the White House's medical adviser, and director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases. "The severity of one compared to the other is really quite stark. And the potential to kill of one versus the other is really quite stark."

Yes, the orange and red lines on the excess deaths chart (https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm) which represents the "normal death rate" will eventually be drawn higher because hundreds of people dying of covid each day will become "the new normal".

Nothing says things aren't the same like the drop in US life expectancy.

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u/mname Sep 16 '22

It’s a bad faith debate and giving the “both sides” let’s you know NPR is just corporate bullshit now.

Influenza doesn’t cause systemic vasculitis for irreversible organ damage, nor is it neurodegenerative or participate in TCell exhaustion and mimicry. SarsCov2 can literally cause immune deficiency.

When you recover from influenza it’s pretty much over, SarsCov2 is an entirely different story. It’s pathophysiology is very scary.

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u/motoo344 Sep 16 '22

It just tore through our house, I thought we were good after my step daughter got it in July and we didn't. Oh boy even vaxed it was still a mess. We all had different symptoms, daughter had multiple temp spikes to over 104 degrees, vomited a few times, and back to normal after 2 days. My wife felt crappy then got a bad head cold, fever and aches. I felt meh for 3 or so days then my entire body decided it needed to feel like it was on fire, it hurt to wash myself in the shower, the pressure from laying down hurt and I had a minor head cold. Mom has been sick for over a week now, still bed ridden, hasn't been able to eat in 3 days, was in the ER last night because of that. Shes the sickest and did not get vaxxed.

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u/chele68 I bind and rebuke you Qeteb Sep 16 '22

Good news everyone!!

National COVID-19 wastewater levels signal viral uptick ahead of fall

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u/Cultural-Answer-321 Deadpilled 💀 Sep 16 '22

If you look at the chart from beginning of the pandemic, with the exception of the first year, fall has always seen a very deadly surge.

The U.S. vaccination rate is still very bad. Combined with lack of masking and social distancing, it's not hard to see what the outcome will be, except to those being willfully stupid.

Stay safe, stay smart, get vaccinated and keep your guard up.

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u/chele68 I bind and rebuke you Qeteb Sep 16 '22

And it may be a bad year for the flu as well:

The U.S. may be in for a severe flu season this year if trends in the Southern Hemisphere — historically a seasonal harbinger for the U.S. — hold true.

It isn't the first time since the Covid pandemic began that experts have warned of a bad flu season or even a "twindemic": a bad flu season on top of a winter surge of Covid. But so far, that hasn't materialized.

What makes this year different, however, is that flu is surging in Australia for the first time since the pandemic began. Flu season in Australia can be an indication of what's to come in the U.S.

Australia is nearing the end of its worst flu season in five years, according to the latest report from the country's Department of Health and Aged Care.

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u/Cultural-Answer-321 Deadpilled 💀 Sep 17 '22

What also makes it different is that people are no longer wearing masks and distancing.

At all.

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u/Suspicious-Bunch-657 Sep 16 '22

Narrator’s voice, 2028 documentary about the 22/23 covid season: The people were willfully stupid

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u/Perigee-Apogee Get the Jabby-Jabby Sep 16 '22

Good and bad.

Good because we're NOT crazy.

Bad because more people will get sick and die. And Bad because it's still not over. :(

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u/Knitnspin Sep 17 '22

Unless you have long covid. Death isn’t the option folks. My 12yo has difficult climbing the stairs now…

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u/eirsquest Team Mudblood 🩸 Sep 17 '22

Mono has nothing on the near constant exhaustion of long COVID. The fatigue is far more extreme and long term. I hope your kid finds something that helps their particular symptoms soon

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u/Knitnspin Sep 17 '22

Thank you. I wished it was only fatigue at this point. It’s loss of lung function and shortness of breath/dyspnea walking 20-30 feet. Not the life of a 12 yo. But “it’s only mild” right? I feel guilty for wishing those can see how difficult it truly is as well.

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u/eirsquest Team Mudblood 🩸 Sep 17 '22

My husband and I caught COVID in January will traveling out of state for treatment of my pre-existing lung issues. I was lucky, COVID stayed out of my lungs. My husband, who also had pre-existing lung issues wasn’t so lucky. He’s lost some additional lung function. We’re both dealing with extreme fatigue and lack of stamina as well as appetite and sleep issues.

I’ve said all along that it wasn’t just the deaths that were the issue but the long term/permanent damage being done. I’m sorry your son has to deal with it

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u/Glittering-Cellist34 Sep 16 '22

I don't know. Think about what an accomplishment that is, through vaccine development and medical treatment advances. It comes at tremendous cost, and shows horrendous gaps in our health care system that we're unlikely to address. If we gave a shit how would these massive failures in response not lead to changes. For example. Trump's misfeasance killed a couple hundred thousand people. He killed more people than Saddam Hussein! Where are the consequences?

Hospitals are still reporting tremendous financial losses (so much for the covid death bonus). Some hospitals are closing.

But we can manage it now, although as another comment says, at 2x the number of deaths compared to flu.

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u/vsandrei 🐆 🐆🐆🐆🐆🐆🐆🐆🐆🐆🐆🐆🐆🐆🐆🐆 Sep 16 '22

Trump's misfeasance killed a couple hundred thousand people. He killed more people than Saddam Hussein! Where are the consequences?

There are none. Trump is a White man, after all.

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u/LikeAMan_NotAGod Go Give One Sep 16 '22

And a conservative.

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u/JolietJake1976 Team Mix & Match Sep 16 '22

"Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god."

  • Jean Rostand, French biologist and philosopher

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u/Spartanswill2 Sep 16 '22

It also showed absolutely horrendous problems with the overall health of Americans. The obesity rate, diabetic rate, and general health of people in the us is simply unacceptable. It's time for a sugar, processed food, and high calorie tax that needs to be used to subsidize fruits, vegetables and gym memberships. Also cities need to prioritize outdoor exercise.

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u/Glittering-Cellist34 Sep 16 '22

Excellent points. And about how the underfunded of public health for decades had tragic consequences.

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u/Spartanswill2 Sep 16 '22

I lived for large parts of the pandemic in Thailand. It simply wasn't nearly as big of a deal there. Way less people getting sick. Way less hospitalization. Way less death and Thailand is probably the least healthy se Asian country.

Thailand 32k deaths in 70 million people: 1 in 2,188 Usa 1.1 million deaths in 340 million people: 1 in 309

Outside of shutting down for a bit at the beginning, super strict travel rules, being careful by wearing masks and distancing and a pause on alcohol being served at bars and restaurants the restrictions in Thailand were far less than the us yet the us had a death rate of 7x Thailand. My hypothesis is that there are two main reasons for that. Thailand, first off, had a legit shutdown at the beginning. In the us people were still going to stores and crowding like crazy. Secondly, the Thai are not as fat and unhealthy as Americans are.

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u/Glittering-Cellist34 Sep 16 '22

We watch NHK World. On their news they would go "crazy" when there wererises in cases. Yet by comparison to the US the numbers in Japan were miniscule.

But I thought it would be more than what you describe observing in Thailand. Eg Singapore, Taiwan, and South Korea took it very seriously. (Although research findings indicate Asians have more immunity because of previous exposure to other types of covid.)

And there was a JAMA article about Taiwan's response very early into the pandemic.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2762689

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u/Spartanswill2 Sep 16 '22

Rises in cases until mass vaccination were dealt with very swiftly. They announced lock downs in affected areas immediately. In the us they waited until case counts ballooned and then locked down. Which was far too late. The us locked down when it was least effective and stayed open when a lock down would have been most effective.

In May of 2020 in Thailand I could go to the bar with 200 people without masks and dance. I couldn't do that in my area in the us until mid 2021.

Once people were fully vaxxed Thailand ended nearly all the restrictions completely.

The us public health departments act too slowly for a virus. If a catastrophic pandemic ever hits the us is not going to exist. Covid was already pretty close to ending it and it "only" had a 2% death rate at it's peak.

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u/Glittering-Cellist34 Sep 16 '22

May 2020 for bars? Other Asian countries stayed closed for a lot longer.

But no question the US acted slowly and often failed.

Fwiw, some places did quite well by comparison. For example, San Francisco. While Utah f*ed up in many ways--still haven't acknowledged who approved buying $900000 worth of hydroxychloroquine and outsourced testing, mostly which failed, to the private sector, the state's death rate us less than half if the country as a whole

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u/Spartanswill2 Sep 16 '22

Yeah there wasn't a single case of locally transmitted covid in bangkok from March 2020 to December 2020. Because they locked down immediately when they got hit with the first "wave". They had an idiot bring a couple Myanmar migrants to deal cards in a pattaya casino in Jan 2021 that started an outbreak and they had two real waves of covid the entire pandemic. August 2021 and April 2022, but those waves hit with better variants and the second one when a lot of people were already vaxxed.

Thailand was absolute proof that if people acted quickly and smartly that you could basically stop covid completely without long periods of partial lock downs. In the us I remember my friends texting me about their 5th trip to home depot on the week and I thought to myself..."hmm I thought yall were locked down, that's fucking stupid." There were no partial shutdowns in Thailand. They were complete lockdowns and they were really short.

Edit: also we were locked in as well. There was no leaving to another country and coming back. You either lived in Thailand or you lived elsewhere. That also went a long way to controlling their covid situation. Not letting non residents stay was a big reason we could basically do anything and everything we wanted.

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u/Glittering-Cellist34 Sep 16 '22

Well. I hope there's a good case study write up that we could learn from, if we were capable of learning, American Exceptionalism and all that. You were fortunate to be there, not here, at the outset!

We live with my wife's aging parents because one has dementia and they need help. I'm proud we made it through without them getting it.

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u/Spartanswill2 Sep 16 '22

I was in the us at the outset. We took one of the only flights we could in March 2020 to get there. Quarantined for 2 weeks. I'm a Thai resident, American citizen so we were allowed to travel there. I knew they'd be better in a pandemic.

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u/Massive-Pudding7803 Sep 16 '22

I'm 6'0", get at least half an hour of cardio on average (bike, rowing machine) with usually an hour or more of light exercise daily (yoga, walking, juggling.) I weigh 230 pounds. Technically speaking I am "obese."

Type 1 diabetes cannot be "cured" with diet or exercise: It's an issue with the pancreas. Type 2 diabetes is caused by low insulin reduction and insulin resistance. Whether this is caused by obesity or obesity is a symptom of type 2 diabetes is an open question.

Sin taxes are only partially effective, at best, at changing behavior. While smoking has declined substantially, for example, 12% of the population smoked in 2020.

My point is this: These issues are far more complex than the simple solutions you propose for them.

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u/Suspicious-Bunch-657 Sep 16 '22

Hmm I know a couple COVID dead people and multiple long covid casualties, and no one who has died of flu.

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u/tomuszebombus Sep 16 '22

My sister has Covid right now and she says it’s worse than when she had to take chemo for lung cancer. I’ve had the flu before and am imagining chemo would be significantly worse than that. Then there’s the nightmare my sister is describing.

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u/SachaBaronColon Sep 16 '22

Flu never gave me neuralgia and a series of panic attacks

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u/marihikari Sep 16 '22 Wearing is Caring

Omicron is worse than you think it is in my opinion. It's not as bad as delta, but we have a vaccine at least. Experts recommend boosters every 6 months btw, and there's one now so go get it.

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u/3kidsnomoney--- Sep 16 '22

I mean, hopefully we are getting to the point where we can live with COVID the way we live with the flu. I'm definitely trying to loosen up a bit to the point that I'm doing more things and seeing more people with the background belief that if I get COVID again I'm likely to be inconvenienced and feel lousy for a week but will be probably otherwise okay. I'm kind of having to do this for my own sanity because avoidance is not going to work anymore (my spouse was ordered back to work and has to use public transit, all three kids are in school using public transit, etc.) I can't batten down the hatches and hope to avoid infection anymore.

That said, realistically I don't think we will know the full story on how lethal COVID is until we are able to do long-term studies where we look at the actuarial tables and see how many people are 'missing' in coming years because they died prematurely. A lot of those will be COVID deaths. Everything else is just people massaging the data to suit them (I think the article demonstrates that, talking about the difference between 'died with COVID' and 'died of COVID.' Most people, particularly people with medical comorbidities, don't die of just one thing.)

One thing that does drive me nuts is the "Yay, it only kills old people and sick people now!" mentality. Like we've decided as a society that those people are not worth the inconvenience of wearing a mask or getting a shot. I've got loved ones in those categories (elderly people with health issues, younger people on chemo/radiation) and the degree to which the risk to them has been written off makes me furious.

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u/RedditOnANapkin Sep 16 '22

The only thing that greatly concerns me at this point is long COVID. Since we're still in the learning stages with that I want to avoid catching it. That's not to say I never go out ala 2020 and early 2021 but like you I have resumed some pre-2020 activities for my sanity.

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u/3kidsnomoney--- Sep 16 '22

There are days that I really miss the certainty of "just stay home" as of 2020 and 2021. It was kind of a relief that so many things were moved online because there was less juggling of personal risk management. We had a really nice, long honeymoon period where my spouse was sent home to work, my kids were sent home to do online school, and we were really able to just hide out and avoid a lot of incidental exposure for a long time. I'm resigned to the fact that my spouse has to work in person now and my kids need to go to school, but more optional things still have me wracking my brain to try to figure out whether it's worth the risk, particularly because I had COVID last June and despite previous infection and vaccination was actually pretty sick and don't want to do it again. I also worry about long COVID a lot with repeated illness, my daughter and I have both had COVID twice now and I really don't want to keep playing the odds.

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u/Cultural-Answer-321 Deadpilled 💀 Sep 16 '22

What should make you more furious is that it's actually killing more 45-55 year olds and death rates in children are rising as well, yet people are operating under very outdated perceptions that it's only the olds.

Not to mention the death rate in the U.S. is STILL 450-500 per day. That's 3000 PER WEEK, 12,000 per month.

But hey, no big deal, right?

Fuck those morons.

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u/3kidsnomoney--- Sep 16 '22

I'm in Ontario and although we've done better as far as mitigating the pandemic has gone, our provincial government seems to have just gotten bored of it around last March and removed a lot of the measures, like masking, that really did manage to keep our numbers at least somewhat reasonable. I spend my morning in the clinic (getting an ultrasound to look for gallstones) and it's so crazy to me that I no longer need to wear a mask in a clinic full of people who are literally there because they are elderly and/or have a medical condition. But hey, there were angry truckers and they were his base and he wanted to win an election, so...

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u/much2say4throwaway Sep 17 '22

Yeah except it isn't just the elderly, there are still younger people dying of it. I know of someone that was in their early 30s who ended up with a seizure most likely caused by a blood clot that they didn't survive, actively sick with covid. This was last month, not the beginning of the pandemic and not even the Delta wave.

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u/MisguidedPants8 Sep 16 '22

“COVID’s just the flu” yeah and the flu killed millions until we got widespread working vaccines

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u/Cultural-Answer-321 Deadpilled 💀 Sep 16 '22

Right?

This is like arguing which gun kills you deader, a stupid conversation I used to have with some acquaintances. ANY gun will kill you.

It's moot.

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u/0101010911 Sep 16 '22

I think so many people want their lives back to pre-pandemic normal they will believe this. Unfortunately.

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u/Courageous_Chameleon Sep 16 '22

I dunno. Is there a 20% chance of developing long flu?

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u/eat_the_richies Sep 16 '22

I've been vaccinated and boosted and caught covid recently. Oh my freaking God, that shit is draining, it hurt to move, it was so tiring, my head wouldn't stop pounding but I got better after a week. I've had people say "you caught it even though you're vaccinated" I always say imagine how much worse it would've been had I not been given the shot?

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u/starbetrayer 💰1 billion dollars GoFundMe💰 Sep 16 '22

This article is moronic.

125000 >> 50000

The flu and car accidents are about the same amount of deaths per year, give or take.

So if I were to write an equation, it would be : COVID = FLU + CAR ACCIDENTS

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u/MisterFantastic5 Sep 16 '22

There’s no debate that the risk for the vaccinated is far less. It’s the unvaccinated that throw these numbers off.

So they’re not wrong when they say “…less risky for most people”.

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u/Goose_o7 I am The TOOTH FAIRY! Sep 16 '22 edited Sep 16 '22

There’s no debate that the risk for the vaccinated is far less. It’s the unvaccinated that throw these numbers off.

The unfortunate outcome when the dumbest segment of the population is also confronted with medical, statistical facts and figures they are too stupid to understand.

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u/eye8urcake Sep 16 '22

If you're lucky (or well-heeled) enough to live in a place where 'most' people are vaccinated, unlike myself, then maybe.

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u/Cultural-Answer-321 Deadpilled 💀 Sep 16 '22

This.

The U.S vaccination rate is still abysmal. This causes mutations. Nobody can predict if the mutation will be more or less severe, as we've seen what was thought to be a benign variant suddenly change just ever so slightly and roar back with deadly consequences.

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u/Goose_o7 I am The TOOTH FAIRY! Sep 16 '22

I don't know... The 911 equivalent of deaths every single day sounds pretty lethal to me.

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u/chewbooks 💰Paid Soros Shill 💰 Sep 16 '22

I’m sorry but stories/studies like the one below make me keep my mask tf on. I wish my parents were still masking up but they’ve already got the 4th shot and I’m not comfortable coming off as judgemental to them.

“A study using the electronic health records of more than 6 million Americans over age 65 found those who had covid-19 ran a greater risk of receiving a new diagnosis of Alzheimer’s disease within a year.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2022/09/15/covid-alzheimers-disease-case-western-reserve/

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u/Flibberty_Flabberty Sep 17 '22

I just recovered from Covid this week. I am under 50 so I only got the first booster. I’ve never been so sick in my life. I can’t imagine what I would have experienced without my vaccines.

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u/PainRack Sep 17 '22

There's a lot of variance to flu deaths but it's approximately 100 plus, 150 deaths daily in the US . Covid deaths daily never dropped below 300 in the US on a 7 day basis. Sure they the same .

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u/Mlpaddict Sep 16 '22

Dealing with COVID now. Kid brought it home from school.

Thanks Dougie.

So far she's the only positive.

She's vaxxed and boosted. I'm vaxxed and double boosted but on immune suppressing medications, not organ transplant level suppressing, but not happy have COVID in the home.

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u/tinychameleon Sep 17 '22

The scientist that disagrees is Monica Gandhi, who has been against the decisions advised by the majority of domain experts since the beginning. Why? I don’t know. She has been noisy about it for awhile and I’m not sure why NPR would use her as the basis for this “debate”.

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u/[deleted] Sep 17 '22

There's more money and notoriety in being contrarian, even if it's at the expense of people's health.

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u/glantzinggurl Sep 17 '22

has anyone ever gotten Long Flu?

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u/Sourdoughsucker Sep 16 '22

I had it 3 weeks ago and I am still not normal, takes longer than a flu to get over

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u/Halogen12 Sep 16 '22

To the best of my knowledge I have not had it. I haven't had any symptoms of the illness or the after-effects. Double vaxxed, double boosted, still keeping my distance from strangers and avoiding large gatherings. Being a happy hermit pre-COVID helps with that. I have health conditions that make me very nervous about getting it so I'm not throwing caution to the wind. I know several people who struggled for months to regain energy and stamina after catching it. I hope you recover quickly!

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u/dawno64 Pfizer X3 4u+4me Sep 16 '22

They love to push that Covid is NBD, but actual statistics say otherwise. Deaths and long term health issues are still up. Winter and the holidays are on the way. They changed reporting criteria and methods to make the publicized stats look better, but the numbers are still up, even when factoring in home testing and the fact that most of those cases aren't reported, which means spread is still higher than it should be.

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u/Perigee-Apogee Get the Jabby-Jabby Sep 16 '22

Did we ever have a flu season where bodies were lined along hospital corridors, waiting to be loaded into refrigerator trucks? Did we ever have a flu season where an ice skating rink was repurposed for cadaver storage?

How quickly we forget.

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u/See_You_Space_Coyote Sep 17 '22

Millions of people are already out of work because of long covid and unless we get our shit together it's only going to get worse.

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u/Cultural-Answer-321 Deadpilled 💀 Sep 16 '22

We are being gaslit on an incredible scale by big money who have no qualms about killing us for profit and never did.

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u/dawno64 Pfizer X3 4u+4me Sep 16 '22

And the worst thing is the number of people willing to believe the spin. I have watched from the beginning, knowing shots would be no more effective than existing flu shots, knowing it was aerosolized, knowing that the officials were lying, and basically killing people because of it. Kept hoping I was wrong, that the experts knew other information and this would be over by now, science would prevail. But the promised immunity was a lie. And yes, I am vaccinated because I will take whatever protection I can, but right now it's looking like quarterly shots for the foreseeable future and that's what I figured since this started.

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u/Cultural-Answer-321 Deadpilled 💀 Sep 17 '22

It would have worked if people everyone co-operated, but they didn't. Heck if even just 80% co-operated!

Be sure to thank an anti-vax-masker.

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u/SimonKepp Sep 16 '22

A rudimentary understanding of epidemology tells us, that at some point, the threat/lethality of COVID-19 and the flu should reach equilibrium. The big question is when this happens, and the answer probably differs greatly with geography. In first world countries like Denmark, we have around 85% fully vaccinated, and my guess ( not backed by any hard data), is that we either have reached this equilibrium, or will do so this coming Winter.In third world countries, like the US, with roughly 67% fully vaccinated, I'm guessing that this equilibrium is further away in time. A country like Nigeria with around 15% fully vaccinated is even more screwed in this respect.

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u/[deleted] Sep 17 '22

I appreciate the fact that you referred to the US as a third world country.

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u/LongjumpingFarmer478 Sep 16 '22

If you are up-to-date on your vaccines today, and you avail yourself of the treatments, your chances of dying COVID are vanishingly rare and certainly much lower than your risk of getting into trouble with the flu," Jha told NPR.

That’s a big IF buddy! Especially in this country!

Gosh this article makes me mad. People seem so motivated to make COVID no big deal contrary to so much evidence, apparently even people with PhDs in infectious disease. This attitude isn’t helping people.

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u/Perigee-Apogee Get the Jabby-Jabby Sep 16 '22

Exactly.

IF. IF you get the vaccines. IF you go get treatment right away (and this does NOT refer to Ivermectin & HCQ, or Zinc/D3/C, or walking around barefoot (!), or whatever.)

I think many people will just glance quickly through this article and think, "I knew it. Nothing to worry about. Just carry on as if it didn't exist."

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u/eye8urcake Sep 16 '22

We can hope those people choke on their Ivermectin/HCQ/Zinc cocktails, I guess.

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u/RedditOnANapkin Sep 16 '22

Most of those people already think that. Had the article said COVID is worse than the flu they'd dismiss it as "left wing propaganda".

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u/Joealb123 Quantum Jeebus Healer Sep 16 '22

Yep, I'd think a person with a PHD in infectious disease would read this.

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2022/08/higher-risk-vein-blood-clots-covid-vs-flu-patients

Apparently not.

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u/Busy-Negotiation1078 Sep 16 '22

I know several people who are struggling with the after effects of having COVID weeks or even months ago. I don't remember "long flu" being a thing.

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u/mothermucca It’s just a COVID Sep 16 '22

Long flu is indeed a thing. I had it in my 20’s. Sick for months.

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u/Busy-Negotiation1078 Sep 16 '22

Thanks. I wondered.

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u/faste30 Sep 16 '22

Really any serious illness can result in "long something." Its wrecking your body.

But the reason "long covid" got so much attention is because of the likelihood. It still is novel because the virus is novel. For those that survived it the process took so long for their body to react and defeat it that the virus could do much more damage than the average flu could, more damage to have to recover from.

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u/Busy-Negotiation1078 Sep 16 '22 edited Sep 17 '22

Yeah, like I said I know several peoe who have been told by doctors that they have long COVID. More than any other viral diseases - the only one I can think of that comes close is people I know who have long term effects from Lyme disease.

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u/faste30 Sep 16 '22

Yeah it was really annoying being in the healthcare industry to hear all of these people like "x% survive!" Cool story but 11% are hospitalized.

You dont just go into the hospital and then come out all fine and dandy. If you had to be hospitalized it was bad. Youre coming out with scar tissue on your lungs, damaged circulatory system, muscle atrophy, etc. All we could do in those early days is keep everything ELSE from killing you and hope your body could eventually win. All while COVID was having a raging kegger, trashing the house.

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u/Busy-Negotiation1078 Sep 16 '22 edited Sep 18 '22

I know of one person who is now on transplant list for a new heart, one who slipped from metabolic syndrome to insulin-dependent diabetes, and three others who are now on permanent disability because their lung capacity is so diminished, they cant work any more. These are really serious, life-changing, and permanent after effects of getting COVID.

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u/Lulu_531 Sep 16 '22

I had it in 2018 and was vaccinated. I struggled for six months.

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u/Caliveggie Sep 17 '22

At the beginning of the pandemic two coworkers were arguing about Covid. This was March 2020. One said it was just as bad as the flu. He still works there and has had Covid 4 times. The other guy was like, “Have you ever had the fucking flu? I missed high school for a month because of the flu! Dude if this is just like the flu we better run for our fucking lives, we are fucked”. He has actually never gotten the virus. So yeah. I count this as equal to the flu. And the flu kills. And you get a flu vaccine. Not sure if it is less than the flu, but it is equal. Influenza is deadly and doesn’t fuck around, just like Covid.

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u/jonathanmstevens Sep 17 '22

My wife and I currently have COVID. She is on her 8th day, and I on my 5th. We have had our 1st and 2nd shots, as well as our 1st booster, but we had planned on going in and getting our 2nd booster this week, man that didn't work out well. Anyways, I had two bad days, fever, chills, body aches, felt like flu symptoms, and now it feels like I have a mild cold and it didn't touch my lungs at all, her on the other hand, she is struggling, coughing, dizziness, fever, chills, but she's getting much better. Now here's the kicker, she's in much better shape than me, I'm on Humira, 6mp as well as blood pressure medication, and I've been the one we've been worried about dying of this stuff. Anyways, it's just weird how it worked out. Oh, and normally we would take extreme caution if one of us was sick, isolation, masks, you name it, but there was a massive forest fire, and everyone was coughing and sneezing and had nasal drip, just kind of threw us off. I guess my point is, I can't imagine going through that without the shots, and I think my wife would have ended up in the hospital without it, and despite only suffering for two days, man it sucked, you just got to be crazy to want to endure that shit without protection. And please, don't be like me, don't put off your 2nd booster, it could save you a lot of pain, but I guess I'm preaching to the quire here.

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u/H0lyT0ast Sep 16 '22

I’ll take some quick jabs to keep my toes vital organs and lungs healthy. 🤷‍♀️

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u/buddhabillybob Sep 16 '22

Let’s assume this is true. Influenza deaths + COVID deaths per year are still greater than 100k. That’s not insignificant.

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u/purplegladys2022 Sep 16 '22

Gotta keep thinning those herds. Keep telling the imbeciles all is well and the problems might just start taking care of themselves.

Addition through subtraction in action.

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u/maztabaetz Sep 16 '22

Welcome to the Permdemic.

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u/bErinGPleNty Because Other People Matter Too Sep 16 '22

How many people have I known who have died of the flu ever over my 65-year life? Zero. And how many of covid, over the past 2+ years? Half a dozen. Hmmm.

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u/gruntothesmitey Team Moderna Sep 16 '22

This is the same radio station that recently aired a program in which they stated that covid had taken three years off the average life expectancy of Americans.

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u/MisterFantastic5 Sep 16 '22

Because we lost a million Americans from this in a couple years, which dramatically dropped the averages - around the would. Doesn’t mean you and I will live three years less.

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u/RedditOnANapkin Sep 16 '22

This is an interesting discussion and I'm curious to see where it goes, but I'm going to err on the side of caution and continue to get boosted (I got the updated one a few days ago), masking up in places where there's large groups, and social distance when I can. The vaccines and N95 masks have allowed me to feel comfortable going out more, which I'm thankful for, but I'll continue to play it smart and minimize my chances of catching it as best I can.

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u/HermanCainShow Team AstraZeneca Sep 16 '22

Yeah, but long flu isn’t a thing as far as I know. Long covid is as real and debilitating as they come. Dying isn’t necessarily the worst outcome.

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u/PseudonymIncognito Sep 16 '22

That may well be true, but only because most people don't realize how truly awful the flu is. My one lab-confirmed case of influenza was far worse than my experience with post-vaccination-and-booster COVID.

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u/Saskatchemoose Sep 16 '22

I just got it a few days ago from my butthole roommate and luckily I was only mildly sick for a day and a night.

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u/gardengirl99 Blood Donor 🩸 Sep 17 '22

***Less risky than flu for many people, the caveat being of you’re fully vaccinated and had an appropriate immune response.

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u/weedywet Sep 17 '22

“Some” does a lot of work in that sentence. Many more say it’s not.