r/MadeMeSmile • u/first_name_harshit • Aug 05 '21
The way the doggo reacted made my heart smile Doggo
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u/Caliber70 Aug 05 '21
to dogs, we turn night to day with a switch, we build caves, we ride steel machines that carry us faster than any animal, we make food appear suddenly, we fix problems inside the body. to dogs we are magician wizards.
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u/WenzelOfMidgard Aug 05 '21
And yet, they have so much heart and so, so much to give. A wizard with no familiar is just a warlock; lost in their magic
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u/ChizzleFug Aug 06 '21
On top of that, we almost stay the exact same their whole lives, we are gods to them.
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u/Astral_Animus Aug 05 '21
Dog chiropractor?
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u/ClaustrophobicSting Aug 05 '21
The job I never knew I wanted!
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u/BadBunnyBrigade Aug 06 '21
Because they don't exist. This is animal abuse.
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u/PissinginTheW1nd Aug 06 '21
How?
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u/aminervia Aug 06 '21
There's no evidence of any benefit whatsoever but real evidence that it can cause injury and harm
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u/Drago1214 Aug 06 '21
Tho it’s up in the air if human or animal does anything. If it makes you feel good then that’s all that should matter.
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u/SparkWellness Aug 05 '21
I have a friend who adjusts horses!
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u/Infamous-Cobbler6399 Aug 06 '21
You made a mistake, and here it is after correction: 'I have a friend who is a charlatan.'
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u/BadBunnyBrigade Aug 06 '21
Doesn't exist. This is a con and isn't safe. It's one thing to practice this on grown adults that can consent, but on dogs and/or children? It's gross and should be illegal.
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u/Espresso_Depressedo Aug 06 '21
Honestly, it really depends on the situation, sometimes it’s one of the best options without having to do full on surgeries, I for one have had pretty much most of my body cracked multiple times because of some problems I’ve had, and that shit was amazing afterwards. But I mean if it’s done by a licensed professional who knows what they’re doing, it’s not really as bad as it seems
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u/aminervia Aug 06 '21
There's iffy at best scientific basis for most chiropractic adjustments in humans, and none whatsoever in dogs. Chiropractic is pseudoscience, and many people who call themselves chiropractors don't even practice chiropractics anymore because it's nonsense that can do real harm.
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u/Espresso_Depressedo Aug 06 '21
I guess it does kinda depend on what you’d consider to fall under “chiropraction” but you really do have to be careful. I suppose maybe I didn’t make it clear that when I said professionals I meant people like physical therapists who are licensed in doing certain adjustments, but yeah, it really can depend on the situation, and obviously it’s not always the best option to fix things
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u/Euphoric_Coyote_9502 Aug 06 '21
Chiropractic adjustments generally are the same thing as mobilizations that medical doctors and physical therapists do. The more gentle mobilizations are grade 1-4 and a grade 5 is a thrust mobilization, which causes a cavitation or “pop”
From my understanding, Chiropractors job is to align you. They generally do an adjustment (pop your back), send you on your way, and say come back next week. You might get an exercise to do at home.
A Physical therapist’s job is teach you how to move better so your body can be more functional. Physical therapists use mobilizations as a tool to do that job. Most physical therapists don’t use the grade 5 mobilizations, but more specialized ones do. The specialized physical therapists can do a grade 5 mobilization (pop your back/joint) which is just a faster and more efficient tool to use if used correctly.
There is not much danger in mobilizations/adjustments if you truly look at the research. The most dangerous type are neck (cervical) grade 5 mobilizations, which has an extremely small increase in chance of severe affects compared to the control. Aleve has a higher chance of harming you than a grade 5 cervical mobilization.
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u/nopenonotatall Aug 06 '21
that’s not even remotely true
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u/aminervia Aug 06 '21 edited Aug 06 '21
Feel free to google the definition of chiropractic. There's some evidence that it may help some types of lower back pains but no evidence of anything else. It's based on pseudoscience, sorry to break that to you.
"In the 114 years since chiropractic began, the existence of chiropractic subluxations has never been objectively demonstrated. They have never been shown to cause interference with the nervous system. They have never been shown to cause disease. Critics of chiropractic have been pointing this out for decades, but now chiropractors themselves have come to the same conclusion."
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u/nopenonotatall Aug 06 '21
i’m a medical research writer. you said yourself there’s evidence of it helping low back pain, yet still call it pseudoscience. those are conflicting statements
it’s interesting to me how opposed people are to chiropractic based on the fact that people have been injured by chiropractors, yet don’t consider the actual statistical rarity of it compared to literally any other medical practice. as of 2010, the most thorough peer-reviewed, scientific study done has found 26 deaths linked to chiropractic. ever. chiropractors adjust 35 million Americans annually alone. those are extremely low statistics
if you’re basing your position on statistics, then let’s study some. a 2013 study in the Journal of Patient Safety found, “a lower limit of 210,000 deaths per year were associated with preventable harm in hospitals. Given limitations in the search capability of the tools used and the incompleteness of medical records on which these tools depend, the true number of premature deaths associated with preventable harm to patients was estimated at more than 400,000 per year.” you’re statistically more likely to be seriously injured or killed in a hospital or doctor’s office by a landslide, yet we don’t try to dissuade people from visiting hospitals or doctors, right?
let’s then compare that to the prescription drug deaths, which people take willingly every single day. a 2014 study done by Harvard University found the following, “properly prescribed drugs (aside from misprescribing, overdosing, or self-prescribing) cause about 1.9 million hospitalizations a year. Another 840,000 hospitalized patients are given drugs that cause serious adverse reactions for a total of 2.74 million serious adverse drug reactions. About 128,000 people die from drugs prescribed to them.”
do people shun the use of prescription drugs or visits to hospitals/doctors based on these statistics? no, they don’t. yet we apply that same logic to chiropractic, despite statistical proof that injury and fatality are extremely rare? how does that compute? there’s heavy-handed fear-based rhetoric surrounding chiropractic based on word-of-mouth horror stories and internet naysayers that typically have very little basis in reality. i’d really implore you to look outside of that and see that it has been a non-invasive, safe source of pain relief for millions of people, myself included
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u/---THRILLHO--- Aug 06 '21
They're not conflicting statements at all. "Chiropractic may have benefits for some types of lower back pain" and "chiropractic practitioners have never been able to provide any evidence of the presence or medical significance of subluxations" are two completely non-conflicting sentences. Do you want to provide some evidence that subluxations aren't horseshit? Y'know since that's what the guy you're responding to actually said?
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u/aminervia Aug 06 '21
Prescription drugs have benefits in addition to risks, chiropractic is built upon pseudoscience, no benefit for anything besides some low back pain in addition to risks. All this, and the limited benefit has nothing to do with the core beliefs of real chiropractors.
Feel free to actually read the source I shared and respond to it
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u/BadBunnyBrigade Aug 06 '21
I for one have had pretty much most of my body cracked multiple times because of some problems I’ve had,
Because you can consent. Animals and children can't consent.
by a licensed professional who knows what they're doing
No such thing.
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u/Lougehrig10 Aug 06 '21
Curious on your stance here. Are you saying it’s bad purely because the dog can’t consent? Or even that it could cause harm?
We do surgeries on dogs and kids without their consent, and surgeries can still cause harm
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u/BadBunnyBrigade Aug 06 '21
Curious on your stance here. Are you saying it’s bad purely because the dog can’t consent? Or even that it could cause harm?
Both. Because it's an alternative treatment (that being something that isn't actually medically necessary to the continuation of life) then it should require the consent of the person receiving said treatment because of the potential harm.
This is why doctors don't intentionally perform surgeries that aren't needed. They perform them because they're necessary for the continuation of this person's or this animal's life and well being.
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u/Espresso_Depressedo Aug 06 '21
...I was a child the first time I had it done, and I’m still technically a minor so.. um, yeah
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u/axle8193 Aug 06 '21
Yes a child and animal can’t give consent but the parent can, so if the parent or owner says it’s fine then it’s fine. I’m guessing this dog needed it and it felt good since he hugged and licked his owner
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u/BadBunnyBrigade Aug 06 '21
since he hugged and licked his owner
You could accidentally step on your dog's foot and they'd still likely react in the same way. The dog's reaction doesn't say anything about the effectiveness or legitimacy of this "practice".
And while a parent can give consent, it shouldn't include things like pseudomedicine, which can be incredibly harmful and even fatal. These things should require the sole consent of the person these things are being practised on, which children and animals cannot do.
It's unethical.
1
u/axle8193 Aug 06 '21
This is like saying a child can’t give consent or says no to a heart surgery so they won’t do it, no they still do it and say the child’s life because the child doesn’t know and that’s why the parent has control
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u/Tee_Veee Aug 05 '21
Context to what he did?
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u/first_name_harshit Aug 05 '21
I think he popped his back, like you would with a human.
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u/me_human_not_alien Aug 06 '21
For a longer time than I’d like to admit, I thought he was healing the dog from paralysis or something
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u/Tee_Veee Aug 05 '21
Oh.
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u/Rocket-Tree Aug 05 '21
Getting your back and hips adjusted feels amazing. Totally recommend doing it at least once
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u/BadBunnyBrigade Aug 06 '21
Don't do this on children or animals, this isn't real medicine and they can't consent to these procedures.
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u/popegope428 Aug 06 '21
Children and animals can't consent to any procedures. That's why they have parents and owners, respectively, that make these decisions.
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u/eans-Ba88 Aug 06 '21
Consent is a funny thing, in the medical world there are a handful of different types of consent. There's implied consent (persons unconscious but lack of action would result in death or lesser problems) parental consent (the parents or guardian gives the go ahead) direct consent (patient directly gives the okay)and I'm sure more that I've forgotten in the years its been since I took some emt courses. What about having a procedure done on your pet is different than having one done on your child? Nothing really, I would say its tantamount to parental consent. You might counter with "chiropractors arnt real medical professionals/ its a sham" but I can speak from personal experience, a chiropractor got me walking again after I threw my back out at work. (I woke up locked up, had to literally crawl out of bed. When I finally did get on my feet, I was stuck at a 90° angle. Had to unfurl a metal coat hanger to pull my pants and socks on, and my chiropractor had me walking in one visit, had me back to normal in like 2 weeks.) So, I gotta say, they CAN and do really help.
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u/BadBunnyBrigade Aug 06 '21
That's why they have parents and owners, respectively, that make these decisions.
This is also why we need laws that protects children (and animals) from their parents where it concerns medical treatment. Otherwise, we have parents withholding medical treatment from their children who end up dying because their parent(s) decided to seek alternative forms of "medicine".
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u/AdhesivenessOnly2912 Aug 06 '21
By that logic you shouldn’t give children and dogs medicine when they’re sick because they can’t consent.
“Sorry pal I I could fix this fatal disease but you can’t verbally consent so looks like you’re a goner”
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u/BadBunnyBrigade Aug 06 '21
By that logic you shouldn’t give children and dogs medicine when they’re sick because they can’t consent.
That's not even a good argument, these aren't even remotely the same thing.
There's a difference between medicine and medical practices we know and trust that they work because there's evidence for it, and pseudomedicine we have no evidence for. When you go to a real doctor, there's a reasonable expectation that what they prescribe or treat you with will work because there's evidence that these things work. This person has studied medicine and is a licensed healthcare practitioner.
There's also the question of risk/harm and withholding information that would allow the person to make an informed decision. If a doctor (a real doctor) performs a treatment without telling you the risks involved, they're held responsible if you're harmed by said treatment because they withheld information that would have allowed you to give or refuse consent based on being properly informed. Being properly informed about an alternative treatment should be expected of the person receiving said treatment, not a third party.
This is why children should be protected from parents who'd want to subject them to alternative "medicines" rather than actual healthcare. It should be illegal for any parent and/or legal guardian to withhold legitimate healthcare from any person they have guardianship of, that being children, animals or persons unable to care for themselves.
This is exactly why parents like these and these should absolutely be held responsible for their decisions. It matters for children and it matters for our animals. If your child or animal is sick, take them to a real doctor.
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u/JPLMANAGEMENT Aug 05 '21
Now I’m even more pissed at my education for not telling me this was a thing.
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u/BadBunnyBrigade Aug 06 '21
It isn't. It's not just pseudoscience for humans, it's just as much pseudoscience for animals. It's gross to allow these people to "practice" this on animals and children.
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u/axle8193 Aug 06 '21
There not practicing it looks like he knows what’s he’s doing and the dog enjoyed it
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u/JPLMANAGEMENT Aug 07 '21
I don’t think you have a clue what you are talking about. We are all part of the same thing.
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u/dandelionwyn Aug 06 '21
I had a series of chiropractic treatments for my spine and neck/shoulders, hips and feet because I have spondylitis and a few other issues.
To all the naysayers: it works. I got so much relief!! Once the first series was completed I only go for a yearly treatment and it keeps me going all year long. My neck especially gets all swollen like a camel hump and the chiropractor gets it flat and smooth.
All “real” doctors do is give pain killers and recommend expensive physiotherapy that never really did anything.
Don’t knock it until you’ve tried it and don’t spread misinformation that might help someone get some relief
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u/agamemn-off Aug 06 '21
I am also always confused at the hate about chiropractics. I am wondering whether it's different depending on the country? I went to a chiropractic in the UK and it was basically physical therapy, which really helped after the NHS misdiagnosed me and led to years of back pain and subscriptions for pain killers. There was absolutely zero note of this pseudo science stuff people talk about. For example, I got massages, was shown stretching exercises and how to warm up the hurt region before sports. 🤷🏼♀️🤷🏼♀️🤷🏼♀️
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u/deltavictory Aug 06 '21
This. I have some issues as well and going to the chiro was the only thing that helped. My mother also tried everything after an accident and the only thing that worked was chiro.
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u/Kalanan Aug 06 '21
It's not so much misinformation as the whole chiropractic is not scientific at all.
They are claiming to heal things that "alignment" simply cannot while also being dangerous to people with actual back problems.
I'm not saying a good massage and cracking is not good for the morale, but people should be warned against quackery.
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u/Dinner8846 Aug 06 '21
Hey! Can you Tell me some details of what your chiro does? Is it ankylosing spondylitis?
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u/grmatrader Aug 06 '21
Idk. That dog acted very much relieved and appreciated the gentleman that had his hands all over him. If it had hurt him that pup definitely wouldn’t of acted that way js
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u/ramshackle_heads Aug 06 '21
People can't stand to see something positive on the internet. It infuriates them.
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u/grmatrader Aug 06 '21
Yes it’s like everything in the world now days. Wanting to make good into bad. Sad so sad
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u/Infamous-Cobbler6399 Aug 05 '21
FFS. Chiropractory is quackery on humans but on dogs?!?!
What next, homoeopathy for cats?
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u/BlueCaracal Aug 05 '21
I think that the problem is that chiropractory does have documented effects, but some people think that it can do some things that it can’t, which is why it is in a space between established medicine and “alternative medicine”.
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u/BadBunnyBrigade Aug 06 '21
chiropractory does have documented effects
So does the placebo affect, but we're not prescribing placebo medication for people who expect real medicine. And it's not in a space between anything, it's pseudoscience. There's no gap here. It's just not legitimate medicine and letting people "practice" this on animals and/or children is tantamount to assault and/or abuse.
It's fucking gross.
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u/SparkWellness Aug 06 '21
Assault?! What kind of chiropractor did you go to?
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u/Infamous-Cobbler6399 Aug 06 '21
Fraudulent ones ... like all of them.
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u/SparkWellness Aug 07 '21
I’ve had a rough life, I hope things look up for you. Maybe don’t take it out on people who don’t share your opinions. We’ve had different experiences than you and drawn different conclusions, it’s allowed.
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u/Infamous-Cobbler6399 Aug 07 '21 edited Aug 07 '21
I’ve had a rough life
- OK, but how is that relevant to this thread?
I hope things look up for you.
- Thank you for you concern, but again how is that relevant to this thread?
Maybe don’t take it out on people who don’t share your opinions.
- Taking what out on others?
- My opinions, and yours, are irrelevant to what is medicine ... and neither homoeopathy not chiropractory are. This is based on evidence, or more accurately, the lack of evidence.
We’ve had different experiences than you and drawn different conclusions, it’s allowed.
- It not 'allowed' in medicine.
- The promotion of pseudoscience, which can be dangerous, needs to be challenged. It's allowed, indeed is necessary.
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u/phreaqsi Aug 05 '21
Tell that to the dog.
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u/Infamous-Cobbler6399 Aug 05 '21
The likelihood of the dog understanding is the same as chiropractory being an evidence-based practice.
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u/SparkWellness Aug 06 '21
That’s the point the dog first understand but feels better.
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u/Infamous-Cobbler6399 Aug 06 '21
There's a dog that lives near me who is happier after I give her a fuss ... so based on your interpretation it seems I have magical hands.
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u/Infamous-Cobbler6399 Aug 06 '21
Stick a crystal up its arse, and it feels better after removal ... the treatment works no matter if the naysayers in league with big pharma try to suppress this ancient wisdom.
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u/SparkWellness Aug 06 '21
You’re logic is too twisted to make a logical reply. Adios!
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u/Infamous-Cobbler6399 Aug 06 '21
You've already demonstrated you don't understand logic, but it is now possible to add not understanding English.
Should I dig out the crayons for the even simpler explanation, or are you too hard of understanding for that?
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u/halfofftheprice Aug 06 '21
Yeah fuck that dog! He should remain in pain because of this guys bias against chiropractors
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u/Infamous-Cobbler6399 Aug 06 '21
Yeah fuck that dog! He should be subject to a practice that is ineffective and cost the owner money because of the pseudoscience of chiropractory.
Yeah fuck that dog! He should be denied effective and evidence-based treatment because of the fraudulent claims of chiropractors.
My opinion is irrelevant. The lack of evidence for chiropractory is important. It's rejection in the medical and veterinary fields because of the lack of evidence is important.
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u/SparkWellness Aug 06 '21
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26678738/
Western medicine is reductionist and not particularly good at understanding how the whole of the being works together. For example, they just found evidence of what may be the acupuncture meridians. Its function wasn’t evident when flattened out on a slide, but with better technology we can understand more.
I’m not trying to convince you, but just because er don’t know how something works or don’t have an instrument to measure it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. I was critical about all of the above, until calms forte saved my sleep.
As for chiropractors, there is a a lot of difference between them. I’ve had some terrible ones and some amazing one. And you can immediately feel the difference, so it’s pretty easy to figure out if it will work for you or not.
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u/DrWyverne Aug 06 '21
Source on the meridian thing?
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u/SparkWellness Aug 06 '21
This will have to do. It references the studies. I didn’t look on pubmed.gov, but the actual studies are probably there. The article I had read told about how these structures looked on slides and why they couldn’t understand their function until our technology could show it in action.
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u/Infamous-Cobbler6399 Aug 06 '21
Provided a link, but then admitted they hadn't read it, and states 'the actual studies are probably there.'!
Nearly as plausible as water having a memory.
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u/SparkWellness Aug 07 '21
Man, you have a lot of time on your hands. I read the article, did you?
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u/Infamous-Cobbler6399 Aug 07 '21
Man, you have a lot of time on your hands. I read the article, did you?
- I appreciate you're used to accept things without evidence, but please don't assume my gender.
- I recognise quackery and pseudoscience, do you? Of course you don't as otherwise you would not be supporting unproven, ineffective and sometimes dangerous practices.
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u/Infamous-Cobbler6399 Aug 06 '21
The first two words of your comment indicate: - Ignorance of medicine. - Ignorance of medical practices outside the Western World. - Racism.
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u/SparkWellness Aug 06 '21
Your comment makes no logical sense, but thanks for sharing your judgements!
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u/Infamous-Cobbler6399 Aug 06 '21 edited Aug 06 '21
It makes complete sense, but as you're struggling to understand I'll try to simplify: - There is no such thing as 'Western' medicine. - What some uneducated people call 'Western' medicine is practiced across the globe. - To suggest evidence-based medicine is limited to the western world is racist.
If you still have difficulty understanding I may be able to simplify further, although this is likely to require the use of crayons.
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u/SparkWellness Aug 07 '21
No need to be an asshole.
1) Western medicine is the commonly accepted term for the practices that don’t come from ancient Eastern traditions. I didn’t make it up, so take that one out on someone else.
2) America isn’t the only country considered western in comparison to Asia. It’s still called that here, I didn’t choose the term.
3) I’ve never said that.
Please go find someone else to harass.
0
u/Infamous-Cobbler6399 Aug 07 '21 edited Aug 07 '21
No need to be an asshole.
- I agree, so please stop defending unproven, ineffective and sometimes dangerous practices.
1) Western medicine is the commonly accepted term for the practices that don’t come from ancient Eastern traditions. I didn’t make it up, so take that one out on someone else.
- Commonly accepted with those who believe in pseudoscience, but not used by those who believe and practice evidence-based medicine.
2) America isn’t the only country considered western in comparison to Asia. It’s still called that here, I didn’t choose the term.
- Who made any claim about America? Sounds like you have a US-centric view.
- Outside the West is not just Asia. Sounds like you struggle with geography just as much as you struggle with science.
3) I’ve never said that.
- That you class evidence-based medicine as Western is racist ... there are millions, indeed billions, who use & trust evidence-based medicine.
- To be clear, there is medicine ... anything else is not medicine. There is nothing geographic, race or ethnicity about it.
Please go find someone else to harass.
- Please stop promoting unproven, ineffective, and sometimes dangerous, practices.
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u/SparkWellness Aug 07 '21
You make me smile, indeed! Peace out!
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u/Infamous-Cobbler6399 Aug 07 '21
Well, the medicinal value of laughter has been studied and published in a peer reviewed paper unlike so much of the quackery you believe.
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u/Infamous-Cobbler6399 Aug 06 '21 edited Aug 06 '21
Here's something for you, see bottom right: Western medicine
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u/SparkWellness Aug 05 '21
Homeopathy works great on animals because they aren’t biased against it.
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u/Infamous-Cobbler6399 Aug 05 '21 edited Aug 06 '21
The only animal it's likely to work on is bees given it's nothing more than sugar pills.
Seriously, your comment supports the only way homeopathy may have any effect: placebo.
1
u/BadBunnyBrigade Aug 06 '21
In order for a placebo to work, you have to have an actual understanding of what medicine and healthcare is, how it works, etc. But not only that, you have to be actually able to understand anything they way we do.
So it can't have any affect on animals because animals don't know, and can't know, what a placebo is. Or what medicine is. Or what illness is. Or what words are. Or what understanding is.
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u/Infamous-Cobbler6399 Aug 06 '21
No. No. No.
My comment was about the contributor's belief that chiropractory is effective.
Also, for you review: - Wikipedia on placebo - Wikpedia on the nonsense that is homeopathy
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u/SparkWellness Aug 05 '21
I’d agree except it works great on kids and dogs, and they don’t know what they are taking. Also, I’ve taken the wrong one and nothing changes, so somethings happening. Just because we don’t understand how doesn’t mean it doesn’t work.
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u/Infamous-Cobbler6399 Aug 05 '21
It's quackery of the highest order ... but ignore that and instead please start here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathy
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u/Own_Construction3376 Aug 05 '21
Please present as a medical expert without providing any credentials or credible sources.
0
u/BadBunnyBrigade Aug 06 '21
Please present as a medical expert without providing any credentials or credible sources.
I mean... Isn't that what you're all doing here when y'all say chiros work? Please provide evidence, credentials and credible sources.
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u/Infamous-Cobbler6399 Aug 06 '21 edited Aug 06 '21
Hitchens Razor states that which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence ... and so in this case, as chiropractory is not evidence based it is not for those who point out it is quackery to prove it's quackery.
However, in addition to the already linked Wikipedia article (as a starter for understanding) you could do worse than read https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/cracking-down-on-chiropractic-pseudoscience/
0
u/BadBunnyBrigade Aug 06 '21
I’d agree except it works great on kids and dogs, and they don’t know what they are taking.
It works great on no one. In order for a placebo to actually work, you have to have a basic understanding of being sick and of medicine, let alone the actual ability to understand anything. And animals don't have this understanding. So if you don't know that you're sick or taking medicine, then said placebo can't work on animals.
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u/BadBunnyBrigade Aug 06 '21
Homeopathy works great on no one. Jesus... it has nothing to do with bias. It's like saying "hey, my dog is too stupid to know that spritzing her with essential oils to cure her cancer doesn't actually work, so spritzing her with essential oils actually WILL cure her cancer".
Stop.
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u/SparkWellness Aug 06 '21
How do you know?
3
u/BadBunnyBrigade Aug 06 '21
You made the claim "homeopathy works great on animals because they aren't biased against it". That's not how medicine works. In fact, that's not how any of this works.
And we know because if that's how it worked, then we'd be prescribing essential oils to everyone, or sugar pills, or prayers. But we don't. Ever wonder why?
0
u/SparkWellness Aug 06 '21
Not sure what you mean by” that’s not how medicine works?”
The dog doesn’t have a placebo effect because it doesn’t know what the pill is supposed to do.
Those are all widely used, especially in Europe, where homeopathy has been practiced for generations.
Also, study logic, you’re spritzer analogy is nonsensical.
1
u/Infamous-Cobbler6399 Aug 06 '21
Those are all widely used, especially in Europe, where homeopathy has been practiced for generations
- I spy with my little eye a logical fallacy: Appeal to ancient wisdom
Also, study logic
- I could link to a defintion of hypocrisy, but I can't be bothered.
1
u/BadBunnyBrigade Aug 06 '21
Also, study logic, you’re spritzer analogy is nonsensical.
It isn't, actually. Also, "your".
where homeopathy has been practices for generations.
They also practised witchcraft for generations and many still do. Doesn't mean it's real.
Not sure what you mean by" that's not how medicine works?"
I mean exactly what I said. That's not how medicine works. Something doesn't just "work" because the person receiving said treatment doesn't have any biases against it. OF COURSE they don't have biases against it, they're dogs. A bias infers they have some level of understanding equal to that of a human person. They don't.
If anything sounds nonsensical here, it's that.
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u/SparkWellness Aug 07 '21
Trying to find a something coherent enough to respond to, but it’s hard. You actually just argued my point, I think. Hard to tell with circular logic like that.
You could start by educating yourself about witchcraft. Most women accused of witchcraft were midwives and herbalists persecuted by people who attack what they can’t understand.
I’ll try to make the point simpler for you.
In order for the placebo effect to work the participants has to believe they are taking medicine, (placebos work 30% off the time, so for a medicine to be considered effective it has to be higher than that). The dog didn’t have an expectation that the pill,(adjustment), is going to do anything, so the placebo effect doesn’t supply.
Placebo effect requires a belief in the cure by the participant. Dogs don’t have a belief or understanding about medicine so they have no expectation of a cure. Therefore they aren’t effected by the placebo. This seems so simple to me. I mean disagree with me, I get it, but just comprehend what I’m saying.
Thanks for the grammar lesson though! I’ll watch my autocorrect more closely next time. 🙄
Standard logic. A=B, B=C, therefore A=C.
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u/nocjef Aug 05 '21
Don’t do this, ever. Chiros practice pseudoscience and this can do much more harm than good.
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u/Own_Construction3376 Aug 05 '21
REPLYING TO THIS PARTICULAR THREAD AS A WHOLE
With all this medical talk, I’m curious about the absence of sources or diplomas.
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u/BadBunnyBrigade Aug 06 '21
Sources/diplomas from whom, though?
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u/ramshackle_heads Aug 06 '21
Whoever told you that chiros are oh so evil. Cite your sources, you're all over this thread spewing bs, back it up.
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u/BadBunnyBrigade Aug 06 '21
Anyone who practices pseudomedicine on children and animals are evil. There's no need to cite sources, there's literally a video of a person doing so right above.
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u/---THRILLHO--- Aug 06 '21
I think you've got that turned around mate. It's up to the people making the positive claims to back them up with evidence, not the other way around. Let's see some evidence that subluxations exist or that chiropractic can provide any benefit that doesn't fall under existing physiotherapy. If something can be asserted without evidence then it can be dismissed without evidence.
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u/ramshackle_heads Aug 06 '21
Chiropractic services are common and legal. This is the first I have ever heard of them being negative in any way. That's why I am saying to cite sources - the claim is weird and uncommon, at least in my opinion.
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u/gg0209 Aug 05 '21
I mean chiros work for humans... so why wouldn’t they work for dogs, if the chiro in question is trained for the dog’s autonomy?
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u/BadBunnyBrigade Aug 06 '21
I mean chiros work for humans
So do placebos, but we're not prescribing placebos in lieu of actual medicine. Chiros are cons.
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u/MentalSewage Aug 05 '21
They actually don't. Your back doesn't go out like you think. You pinch a muscle or nerve or in a VERY rare occasion the joint can get set wrong.
Popping it only gets air out, which can reduce inflammation to feel better while your body heals. But it was going to heal anyway. If it's the latter case of a join getting set wrong, you need to see a doctor.
If you have a chronic problems you need to see a physical therapist to find out what muscles/postures you need to correct to fix the problem.
That's not to say a chiropractor has zero use; pain relief is nice while your body heals. But they don't cure anything by popping you.
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u/motherdragon02 Aug 06 '21
Insulin doesn't cure diabetes. Inhalers don't cure asthma. EPIPENS cure nothing. Glasses cure nothing. Heart meds? Yep. You guessed it. Cures nothing. So let's not pretend any of that is real medicine! Right? Quackery! If it's medicine it CURES!
Real medicine eliminates the physical dysfunctions entirely...?? Ok.
Smh.
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u/MentalSewage Aug 06 '21
This was single handedly the stupidest false equivalence I've ever witnessed. No really. The mental gymnastics you performed for this would injure a normal person that tried to imitate.
At no point did I say medicine had to cure. What I said was that chiropractic does not cure the very thing it claims to. I also said that it was based on psuedoscience; that the "science" they spout is pure nonsense that sounds sciency enough that people don't question it.
All the aforementioned "arguments" actually do something to correct a problem. Chiropractic literally does not, while pretending it does. Even painkillers don't claim to cure a broken bone.
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u/motherdragon02 Aug 06 '21 edited Aug 06 '21
Chiropractors don't claim to cure anything.
Where did you get that nonsense from?
It absolutely helps. Insulin doesn't correct anything, it's a temporary fix. As are inhalers and heart meds.
Nothing is "corrected" the problems will reassert themselves shortly. It doesn't correct it cure, it's a temporary relief from the effects of the problem.
Just like chiropractors. My hips gonna pop out again. Sure is nice when it's where it's supposed to be. Gonna need it popped back for every bit as long as a diabetic will need insulin.
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u/MentalSewage Aug 06 '21
They claim to cure the source of pain. Back hurts? It's not just inflamed tissue, your back is "out of alignment" and they need to "adjust it back into place"
Your back isn't out of alignment, it's bones. Popping it does nothing, despite feeling nice, as the bone is still in the exact same place after. That "feeling of back in place" is due to marginally less air in the joint. It does nothing for joint health, healing, alignment, or general health whatever.
I know you think you know what you're talking about... But you don't. I studied to be a chiropractor and left the idea at home when I saw that everything they do is based on pure fiction. One guy started popping joints for people, wrote a pyramid scheme, and got others to start doing it. It grew into a massive scam that semi-intelligent people started making up semi-plausible but easily debunked scientific sounding explainations that they stacked on top of each other and duped enough people into using colloquially so we all think it makes sense. Like the aforementioned "out of alignment". It's meaningless, yet people's entire functional knowledge of chiropractic makes sense only if you assume that statement is truth.
Does it feel good? Yeah. When I'm in pain, do I go to one for quick relief? Yep. But I sure as shit don't go repeatedly on a set schedule while they pretend they are actually fixing something like 80% of modern chiropractic recommends. "Come twice a month for 6mo and we'll have your pain gone!". Nice try but the cause of the pain is muscle. No amount of "adjustment" is going to strengthen the muscles needed to keep the joint taught.
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u/motherdragon02 Aug 06 '21
I have never heard any of that crap for any chiropractor ever. Thank God.
I'm also filly aware its usually muscles pushing. That's one of those blankets statements that don't cover it all. It's not a cure. It's just another treatment to live.
My hips pop out of place. Which affects my knees etc.. Chiropractic work helps for a long time and there's no meds to replace putting my bones back.
Thank you though. I do understand what your saying.
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u/BadBunnyBrigade Aug 06 '21
It doesn't have to cure anything in order for it to be considered medicine. What it does require, however, is evidence. If chiropracy had evidence, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Jesus, there's no hidden agenda of councils of evil doctors just sitting around decided what is or isn't medicine. No one is shitting on chiros because we think it's just so damn cool to shit on chiros.
No, we shit on chiros because it's not actually medicine and causes harm. If the people practising chiro were honest with people in how this isn't actually considered medicine, that it can result in not actually helping them with whatever condition they're complaining about, and might actually cause harm, then I wouldn't have an issue with it because it would allow people to make INFORMED decisions.
But the fact of the matter is that just like in naturopathy, homeopathy and other pseudoscience, they don't want to tell you these things because that's bad for business. It's not real medicine because they don't tell you about the risks involved in undergoing these procedures. That's something real doctors do, doctors who practice real medicine and health care.
Jesus. If there was actual evidence for these procedures actually working then there'd be nothing to argue about. It'd be like arguing about organ transplants or blood transfusions. We don't argue about these because we know these work. There's evidence that these work.
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u/Infamous-Cobbler6399 Aug 05 '21
Chiropractory works? This is MadeMeSmile not MadeMePissMyselfLaughing.
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u/lacroixlibation Aug 05 '21
I'm not much of a betting man. But I'd be willing to bet you're not vaccinated either.
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u/Infamous-Cobbler6399 Aug 05 '21
Oh look who are the anti-vaxxers: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-vaccinationism_in_chiropractic
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u/Infamous-Cobbler6399 Aug 05 '21
That bet is not advisable given chiropractory is quackery whilst vaccination is evidence-based and hence it's more likely that anti-vaxxees will believe in chiropractory.
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u/nocjef Aug 05 '21
Just the opposite actually. I’ve been vaccinated for things most normal people aren’t. Science based medicine works.
Chiropractic has no basis in science. It’s pseudoscience.
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u/MentalSewage Aug 05 '21
They're actually right. Chiropractic is honestly psuedoscience. It's a placebo effect of sorts, the popping is just releasing gases which relieves pressure... So you don't feel the pain as much. But your body is going to heal it regardless (or not).
If you have chronic issues, you see a physical therapist to find out why it keeps happening and what exercises or posture corrections you need to make. Your muscles keep your joins in place, pushing air out of the joint will never change that.
It feels good, and pain relief is useful. But they aren't "adjusting" anything. There's literally no science involved, they just made up sciency explainations as it grew
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u/sam_el09 Aug 05 '21
Totally agree. I had sciatica on my right side from an injury a few years back. My dad swears by chiropractors; he sent me to one and it helped a little for maybe 1-2 days before the pain came back. I was terrified of going to a PT without good insurance, but within 2 appointments and practicing the stretches they gave me at home in between, I was quickly pain free and it was worth every cent. And whenever it flares up I just do the same exercises.
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u/BadBunnyBrigade Aug 06 '21
This actually makes me pretty damn said. There should be a rule about not posting these kinds of videos.
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u/axle8193 Aug 06 '21
There’s nothing wrong with it, if it hurt the dog the dog would of not acted so happy after
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u/BadBunnyBrigade Aug 06 '21
There's everything wrong with it. As for the dog's reaction, that has nothing to do with whether or not this was harmful, legitimate or even ethical. Even abused dogs can act happy. It doesn't mean they're not being harmed.
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u/axle8193 Aug 06 '21
Dude have you seen a dog after you hurt it, you can tell! Even if you step on their foot they take a second or squeal, but this dog was fine and even was happy after.
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u/BadBunnyBrigade Aug 06 '21
False. A dog's reaction to something doesn't in any way, shape or form mean that whatever is being done to them is good for them. There are dogs who are plum happy just ripping other animals to shreds because that's how they were raised to be. That doesn't mean this behaviour means using this dog to attack and kill other animals is somehow good. There are dogs who are terrified and even hostile towards anyone who wants to give them food or pet them. That doesn't mean that feeding and petting a dog is bad.
You can't claim that what's being done to the dog is good because the dog looks happy. It'd probably react that way if you just made eye contact with him (my dogs would wag their tails and bums if you so much as glanced at them because they were happy little butt sniffers who loved being the center of attention). And the dog doesn't know any better, so it could be that it reacts that way because they're used to getting pets or treats after this.
So, dude. No.
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u/axle8193 Aug 07 '21
He looked like a professional so I say sure go for it, I know my back felt ten times better after I got it done. You spent to long on this post caring about a man you’ll never see or read this. Just get a life mate.
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u/mlperiwinkle Aug 05 '21
This is what dogs do sometimes when someone hurts them, maybe in hopes it won’t happen again if they are nice to the person
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u/dudeitsanna Aug 05 '21
My Aussie lovveesss her chiropractor.
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u/BadBunnyBrigade Aug 06 '21
No, she doesn't. Your Aussie doesn't know any better because she's a dog. You, however, should know better. If you care about your animal, you wouldn't allow these people to touch your animal, let alone practice pseudomedicine on said animal.
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u/dudeitsanna Aug 06 '21
I mean... she walks comfortably, without assistance, is able to relieve herself, without assistance, enjoys playing in the yard, without assistance, and jumps up on my bed, (you guessed it) without assistance, after every treatment.
So I think I'll keep my "pseudomedicine" and enjoy my happy, healthy, independent dog for mannyyy more years, thank you ;)
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u/Dallasinchainz Aug 06 '21
This does not make me smile, at all, not even a little bit.
It makes me angry that this abuse is being performed on a dog.
Chiropractors are frauds who seriously injure people everyday, now they are injuring dogs as well?!
This is infuriating.
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u/Skrappy_Doo Aug 05 '21
What kind of dog is that?
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u/weetwoozy Aug 05 '21
I'd guess a pit mix or general mutt aka one of the best kinds of dog (imho)
I've never met a pittie or pit mix I didn't immediately love
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u/Windsister Aug 06 '21
Did she have an FCE? Recognize the shoes from when my pup had hers this past January.
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u/motherdragon02 Aug 06 '21
Omg..I didn't know that was a thing! Both the chiropractic work, and that dogs need adjustments.
Well shit. This is a TIL.
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u/BadBunnyBrigade Aug 06 '21
Both the chiropractic work, and that dogs need adjustments.
It's not a real thing and no, dogs don't need adjustments from quacks. This is a con and should be made illegal to the fullest extent of the law to practice chiropracy on animals and children.
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u/nopenonotatall Aug 06 '21
PSA: it’s not “chiropractory” it’s chiropractic
chiropractic is both the noun and adjective form of the word. chiropractory is not a word
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u/stryderallen Aug 05 '21
THE DOG IS WEARING SHOES