r/PoliticalDiscussion • u/10thunderpigs • 24d ago
Can Trump's support for the vaccine make a difference to his unvaccinated supporters? US Politics
Last night, the former President spoke at a rally in Alabama, encouraged them to get vaccinated--like he did--and was booed for it.
For a figure who's word has so often been taken as unquestioned guidance by his loyalist, will his support make a difference to his unvaccinated and/or skeptical supporters?
How do we square this move when we consider that some of his most ardent supporters in government (Abbott, DeSantis, Zeldin) are consistently pushing policies that forbid safety precautions and endorse personal liberty?
933
u/[deleted] 24d ago
I think what we might be seeing is proof that his supporters don't really support him for him, rather they supported him because he confirmed all their superstitions and biases as a "credible" (i.e. rich) person. Whether Trump came along or not, I think it's highly probable that these people would still be anti-vax. Just my two cents.
112
u/[deleted] 24d ago
[deleted]
64
u/TheFlyingHornet1881 24d ago
IIRC the one time in his Presidency he threatened to make gun laws stricter caused backlash
128
u/LookAnOwl 24d ago
He said he wanted to take people’s guns first, then go through due process second. It was such a wildly aggressive statement towards gun owners that even liberals who were very passionate about gun control were kinda like, “wow, that’s a lot.” It sort of proved Trump doesn’t really have much of an ideology, and just kind of says whatever’s on his mind.
15
u/Geezer__345 24d ago
He drives other Republicans crazy, because he says outright, what they are thinking (maybe until recently).
35
u/IsaiahTrenton 24d ago
And I still contend that was the most human part of his presidency. As fucked as he is, even Trump was somewhat horrified by that shit.
35
u/Equal-Manufacturer63 24d ago
Yeah, it was just a completely unconstitutional authoritarian thing to propose. And the exact opposite of the gun rights position that Trump claimed to hold.
Trump basically said "the government should go take peoples guns". And obviously the people who have chanted that Democrat are coming for your guns for the past 40 years of my life just ignored that he said it.
10
u/HeyZuesHChrist 23d ago
He has actually said on camera that he doesn’t believe in anything. People think he is some genius though. He is just someone who says whatever his fans want him to say. That is it.
3
→ More replies-10
u/DBDude 24d ago
It was such a wildly aggressive statement towards gun owners that even liberals who were very passionate about gun control were kinda like, “wow, that’s a lot.”
Most liberals support red flag laws, and those pushing them always put fluffy edges around some the hard, inconvenient truths about them. But Trump described red flag laws in such an accurate and raw manner that they didn't recognize he was merely expressing his support for the red flag laws that they already support. That's why they were so taken aback by the statement.
Gun rights activists, and those other rights activists who aren't willing to throw other rights under the bus to go after guns, rightfully had a shit fit when he said that.
22
u/my-other-throwaway90 24d ago
You can make any political stance sound crazy if you describe it in a raw manner. For example, I could describe opposition to red flag laws like this: "If someone starts experiencing a hitherto undiagnosed psychotic break and ranting on Facebook about shooting Jews, he should be allowed to sit on his porch with an AR-15."
→ More replies→ More replies5
58
u/V_Writer 24d ago
"There go the people. I must go with them, for I am their leader."
4
u/EmbarrassedObject0 24d ago
Where is that from?
22
u/V_Writer 24d ago
Alexandre Ledru-Rollin, a French revolutionary. Checking now I actually got the quote a little wrong; it should have been "There go the people. I must follow them, for I am their leader."
36
u/Equal-Manufacturer63 24d ago
Trump was never about building a wall in the first place.
Trump has publicly stated that "build a wall" was just something that he said once at a rally and that the audience seemed to like it so he ran with it.
After getting the nomination Trump tried briefly to moderate back to the standard Bush/Obama amnesty for those not breaking the law stance, but it didn't stick with the racist white nationalist audience that was supporting him.
That's why Trump totally ignored the wall when he had a majority and only remembered it when he needed something simple for his audience to chant come the midterms.
I mean... Trumps married to an illegal immigrant and was caught employing them at one of his golf resorts during his administration. Can't get much more pro-illegal immigration than that, right?
20
→ More replies6
u/AgoraiosBum 23d ago
He based his campaign on having someone listen to right wing radio and then repeating back all the main talking points.
Classic salesman stuff - figure out what the people want to hear and then give it to them.
His actual interests were corruption, helping out the rich (by cutting taxes and regulations on the wealthy), and racism.
20
u/copperwatt 24d ago
Yeah, becuase... well, they do love him, specifically... personally...Becuase he is so good at becoming someone they love. And it comes off as more genuine than most politicians, becuase unlike most skilled politicians, it's not an act. Not in the same way. His flip-flopping to follow the whims of the angry mob isn't pragmatic and cynical, it comes from the heart, in a way... becuase when he says something that someone, someone outside this moment, has convinced him he "should" or is "true"... and he gets booed... it deeply deeply wounds him. He is so hurt and so bothered by not being loved by a crowd, I think he genuinely feels pulled towards whatever his crowd wants to believe and hear. So when he finally and inevitably comes back around to the lastest incarnation of pandering... it feels like he is coming home, and finally being his true self... every time.
Becuase his true self is the guy on stage who they really really love. That's probably the only time he feels real.
Just my bullshit take, thanks for listening.
→ More replies2
u/HeyZuesHChrist 23d ago
And I am willing to bet Trump does a 180 and goes anti-vaccine now that he was booed at his rally in Alabama. He doesn’t actually give a shit about anything other than being praised.
→ More replies2
u/Anonon_990 23d ago
Same with Fox news. They backed off the "stolen election" talk and their viewers rebelled. Now they keep promoting it. Its like a prisoners dilemma but instead of telling the truth, they're not willing to stop being crazy.
6
u/[deleted] 24d ago
Yeah I remember that quite distinctly too. I remember how he said „and we’re going to build the wall“ like a father whose kids have been begging for ice charm for days and he’s just agreeing so they’ll shut up
→ More replies2
429
u/sarcasticbaldguy 24d ago
I've always believed that they didn't like him as much as they liked what he did to people they also didn't like.
223
u/75dollars 24d ago
“He’s not hurting the right people”
29
u/sarcasticbaldguy 24d ago
Someone earlier posted this with a link, but that post was deleted I guess. I was surprised that I'd missed that one, but when it was one or more things a day, it got hard to keep up.
112
u/mhornberger 24d ago
It's actually a misquote of "He’s not hurting the people he needs to be hurting."
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/1/8/18173678/trump-shutdown-voter-florida
14
u/Prodigy195 23d ago
Saying the quiet part out loud. Another favorite of mine was
Guess I'm not an 'everyday American'. Doesn't matter I was born here and can go back at least to my grandmother's grandfather being born here in America. Brown skin = not everyday American.
→ More replies23
u/LongjumpingAd3733 24d ago
He sparked the insanity up is how I like to put it. They didn’t care for him; they were inspired and fueled with anger.
37
u/ruthekangaroo 24d ago
I check out what's left of their discussion boards every now and then out of morbid curiosity. Their anger and hate is genuinely unnerving. They want death, destruction, and war so bad. They also believe they are backed/blessed by God. Feels like something out of the middle ages.
→ More replies12
u/HeyZuesHChrist 23d ago
Backed by god yet Trump lost. They should find a more powerful god because Joe Biden is obviously more powerful.
13
u/ruthekangaroo 23d ago
They'll probably say it's Satan himself helping the Democrats cheat. They already think the dems are part of a satanic cabal. They're ready to believe anything. I really don't know what can be done to combat this. It's out of control.
12
u/LongjumpingAd3733 23d ago edited 23d ago
I have a neighbor who tried to convince me of this and I asked her why she thought this, so where I was returned with bible quotes that the second coming was here and she narrated how Trump was the savior coming again to take them home! 😳😳😳 That shit needs professional help. I told her the information she got was from a patriarchal book written by men who wanted her to feel small and less than them and it was a bunch of metaphors fo control her and others. Brainwashed! So much of being brainwashed it is. I think the name calling metaphor is entertaining too because that’s a sign of people’s insecurities. Especially “sheeple.” EVERYONE, even traffic on the road follows something or someone else; their parents, teachers, preachers, scientist, family and so on. The lack of thinking for themselves is really apparent and that “fuck your feelings” logo just says how sick they are because they’ve supposedly repressed and suppressed everything. Not my monkeys or my circus.
6
u/sneedsformerlychucks 23d ago edited 23d ago
I can't say I remember anything from the Bible about Trump.
When the second coming arrives, it's supposed to be Jesus in the flesh and everybody will be aware it is Jesus. Obviously believe what you want, but pointing that out would work better than telling her she's brainwashed by a patriarchal book. People generally get defensive if you do that.
6
u/Bluesoutherner 23d ago
I am a Christian and Donnie dimwit has ZERO to do with anything Godly.
→ More replies13
u/Cwellan 23d ago
I have a neighbor who tried to convince me of this and I asked her why she thought so where I was returned with bible quotes that the second coming was here and she narrated how Trump was the savior coming again to take them home! 😳😳😳 That shit needs professional help.
Which is why I am beyond tired of insolated big city liberals telling us we need to reach out of kindness, and be gentle or whatever. Oh, you spent a FULL day at a rural diner? Oh please tell me more about how well you know these people. These people are completely fucked in the head, in a full on, not a joke cult. Democratic leadership needs to start thinking them as the Manson family.
I'm so sick of Democrats pussy footing around as if Republican politicians wouldn't literally burn this country to the ground if it earned them a buck, and that their followers wouldn't literally kill most of their neighbors if worked into a big enough fervor. They are American terrorists, and they are ~20% of this country.
→ More replies6
u/HeyZuesHChrist 23d ago
Dude, I agree 100%. These people are in a cult and beyond reasoning with. Kindness will not cure them.
2
u/glibletts 23d ago
They see kindness, empathy, etc to the "other" or to an "enemy" or "advesary" as weekness to be exploited.
3
u/HeyZuesHChrist 23d ago
Satan himself, more powerful than their god. They should find a new god, one that is more powerful than Satan.
→ More replies2
u/Ikoikobythefio 23d ago
Nothing can be done to combat it. It's got to run it's course.
→ More replies185
u/natophonic2 24d ago
A decade or two ago, anti-vax beliefs had been very bi-partisan. For every Bible-thumping conservative complaining that the MMR vaccine wasn't 'biblical living,' you could find a healing-crystal waving liberal worried about 'chemicals.' (And if we're going to get into anecdotes, the first openly anti-vaxx person I ever met was a crystal-waving Trump supporter... so... take that, covid?)
One exception was the HPV vaccine, because many conservatives feel that giving a 12/13-year-old a vaccine for a sexually-transmitted virus is somehow sending a message to that kid that it's A-OK to go have sex later that week. That sounds ridiculous, because it is, and so conspiracy stories about vaccines causing autism gave those conservatives an additional, science-y sounding angle to work with, and in the process, created a new flock who are 'skeptical' about all vaccines.
Beliefs that covid-19 is a hoax or that the vaccine for it is ineffectual or somehow malignant track very, very closely with Trump support. But I'd agree that it's difficult to tease out correlation vs causation here. My suspicion is that it's much like racial bigotry; Trump obviously didn't create it, but racist bigots do really appreciate how Trump "spoke his mind." If Trump were to suddenly include a bit about how America still has a problem with racism in a speech, I have little doubt he'd be booed for it.
28
u/Daztur 24d ago
For whatever reason a lot of the crystal woo types have gone all in on Q, which accounts for some of the swing.
5
u/czmax 23d ago
I have a "crystal woo & anti-vax" family member who is extremely sensitive about being lumped in with the Trumpy types. They're a long-time "liberal" and it really bothers them that they find themselves standing shoulder to shoulder with people they've derided for years.
Its very frustrating. I'd like talk about vaccinated since they're high risk (old with prior lung health issues) but can't bring the topic up because any discussion point is taken as an attack at them for being a Trump supporter. So they respond with defensiveness about the wrong topic.
8
u/Equal-Manufacturer63 24d ago
Anti-vax nonsense was "bi-partisan", but the right still used it as a dishonest criticism of the left.
Modern anti-vaxing essentially sprang from that doctors report that MMR caused autism. The doctor who did the study publicized it, and then almost immediately was "hey wait... I did that math wrong", and it was torn apart in the medical press and the mainstream media, but that idea, despite being a total mistake, was out there for all the "free thinkers" to see.
That was coincidentally about the time that Facebook first came on the scene, so it's possibly one of the first incidences of social media disinformation.
It's wrong to call it bi-partisan, since neither party was anti-vax. It's more that it was a concern that parents held independent of their political beliefs. Both sides of the aisle have plenty of parents who are concerned about their childrens welfare and have too little time or ability to thoroughly research what's best for those kids.
Saying that, Donald Trump is famously anti-vax, he did inaccurately tweet in 2014 that vaccines cause autism in children. He and Michele Bachman were about the only major US political figures that were anti-vax prior to this pandemic.
15
u/Apprentice57 24d ago
and then almost immediately was "hey wait... I did that math wrong"
Huh? Wakefield has maintained his studies' correctness ever since and got his medical license revoked over it (due to professional misconduct and the study being shit).
9
u/FuzzyBacon 23d ago edited 23d ago
Correction - Wakefield (the primary study author) didn't say his math was wrong, all of the other physicians who were involved asked to have their names removed from the study because what the study reported (which was already not actually what was found, it was doctored from nose to tail) was not supported by the work those other physicians had done.
And that's not even getting into the ugly reality that Wakefield was being paid by a lawyer to perform the research, that the majority of his study participants were recommended by that lawyer (rather than being even slightly blinded), and that the parents were actively lied to about the painful procedures that would be inflicted on their autistic children. It is not an exaggeration to say that Andrew Wakefield tortured autistic children for money.
As a person on the spectrum who has had to deal with the fact that apparently millions of parents would prefer their children dead instead of like me, fuck him forever.
3
u/Docthrowaway2020 23d ago
“As a person on the spectrum who has had to deal with the fact that apparently millions of parents would prefer their children dead instead of like me, fuck him forever”
As someone neurotypical, this implication was always the most heartbreaking part to me. I’m so sorry
2
u/FuzzyBacon 23d ago
For all that I may respond with venom, it's less anger and more a deep sense of sadness for the autistic people who can't express themselves as easily or proficiently as I can. I'm really lucky in that regard, and lots of other people have much more pronounced issues related to autism and/or other neurodivergent issues. There's still a person in there and to listen to many of the parents of autistic people who are highly placed in the anti-vax movement, that's very often forgotten.
3
u/sendenten 22d ago
The doctor who did the study publicized it, and then almost immediately was "hey wait... I did that math wrong", and it was torn apart in the medical press and the mainstream media, but that idea, despite being a total mistake, was out there for all the "free thinkers" to see.
Bullshit.
Andrew Wakefield was paid to falsify the results of the study by a group of lawyers looking to make a quick buck off a false link between the combined-MMR vaccine (a combination of measles, mumps, and rubella) and autism. Wakefield also argued that the three shots should be given separately instead of combined, while having a patent in the making for a measles vaccine.
Saying it was an "honest mistake" is wrong and fucking dangerous. The man knowingly and willfully falsified data and was rightly stripped of his license. His actions have had catastrophic effects on people's trust in science and we're still dealing with the fallout nearly two decades later.
→ More replies→ More replies22
u/Re-lar-Kvothe 24d ago edited 24d ago
Nothing you mention is out of the ordinary for any time in our history. There always was/is two sides to the coin and in recent history (until about 1964) both sides typically agreed upon what was good for all Americans, not just the supporters of one party over the other. That's unfortunate, just two sides to the political coin. What is/was different is Donald J Trump was/is and always will be a colossal POS. He was argualby the worst POTUS in our history. He is competing with Buchanan for that honor. Even though Biden appears to be losing his faculties as I type this he is light years ahead of Trump. Trump is a disgrace.
edit: I assume the Buchanan relate will let you know I was aware of the civil war being another time in history similar to day.
7
u/Daztur 24d ago
The post-war period of less political polarization was more of an exception than the rule. A lot of it was driven by there being big issues (especially Civil Rights) that cut across party lines. So you'd have Democrats working with Democrats on some issues and then pro-Civil Rights Democrats working with pro-Civil Rights Republicans on other issues. Same thing to a more limited extent on other issues such as foreign policy. The only real example of this sort of thing left that I can think of is trade policy but even on that Republicans have been getting more protectionist.
22
u/natophonic2 24d ago
I don't disagree with your assessment of Trump, but having grown up in the 1970's, I'm always skeptical of statements about the US never having been this polarized since the Civil War!
What may come as a surprise is the fact that the majority of Americans were negative about the government's "relief and recovery" efforts in the fall of 1935. The Gallup release noted that 60% of Americans believed "expenditures by the Government for relief and recovery" were too great, while just 9% said they were too little. Another 31% said they were about right.
Franklin Roosevelt of course was a Democrat. The Gallup release showed, as would be expected, that Democrats were more supportive of relief and recovery than Republicans. Fifty-three percent of Democrats said that the expenditure by the government on relief and recovery was about right. A whopping 89% of Republicans said it was too great.
https://news.gallup.com/opinion/polling-matters/169682/years-ago-first-gallup-poll.aspx
2
u/TheMadTemplar 24d ago
This shows disagreement over one topic. Those statements exist because there is currently disagreement over just about everything, not necessarily on the grounds of ideological differences, but simply because one side likes something, therefore it's the duty of the other side to dislike it.
10
u/makemejelly49 24d ago edited 24d ago
he confirmed all their superstitions and biases as a "credible" (i.e. rich) person.
This is the only reason anyone supported Trump at all. He validated their "concerns" about the world and the future. They would happily fall in behind anyone who is willing to suggest they are not the problem. They are terrified to death of a world where their backwards bigotry is not the norm, scared shitless of a world they are both unable and unwilling to comprehend. You hear it all the time in their calls for "a return to a simpler time, a time when the world made sense". And it did make sense, for them. They're straight, white, and Christian. It's only "natural" that anyone who doesn't fit that mold should be considered less than them.
34
u/BoogerBear82 24d ago
Right wing media feeds the right propaganda. I bet most conservatives don’t remember when Trump said we should take guns away. Because they live in a bubble. I show that quote to some of my conservative friends and they thought I made it up but nope Trump said it.
8
u/jcmacon 24d ago
I recently saw a meme that had that quote attributed to Kamala Harris. And every singe conservative that I know believes that it was her that said it not Trump.
→ More replies→ More replies6
u/Dick_Miller138 23d ago
Take the guns first. Worry about due process later.
I think that was the quote. That should have ended him.11
4
u/diphthing 24d ago
I agree. Trump, and those like him, are not really leaders in the sense that they have ideas that people follow. Trump keyed into a pre-existing set of grievances and then rode them to power.
5
u/keenan123 24d ago edited 24d ago
I think this is mostly right, but I think it (perhaps inadvertently) absolves Trump of his role in the situation. It definitely seems that this group existed before Trump, and he merely tapped into it, but i don't think that necessarily means the group as a whole would be anti-vax without him.
This group was emboldened by Trump, and grew through their focus on his leadership. While Trump didn't create the group, he definitely created some of their positions and talking points. The problem is that, though he influenced them, he cannot control them. If Trump came out immediately saying that this was an attack from China, and we need to do our part to stop it, I think the group would have been influenced by that and followed his lead. Some would obviously still be anti-vax, but there doesn't seem to be any through line here that would keep most of them from getting on board with a big beautiful shot if he was consistent from the start.
Having spent 14 months acting like it's no big deal, however, Trump has zero power to now convince them to get a vaccine.
→ More replies3
u/ifeelhome 24d ago
That’s exactly right. Trump gave them permission to be absolute fucking morons which is all they see capable of.
432
u/nowayimpoopinhere 24d ago
I feel like DeSantis and Abbott would relish an opportunity to break with Trump on something so popular on the right.
In reality, Trump will just never say that again at a rally and it will never be talked about in the right wing news or among his supporters online. Which is a real shame because him throwing his weight behind the vaccine could make a difference. If the calculation is clear that he will lose more people than he will gain by being openly pro-vax, he’ll drop it.
131
u/Ghoulius-Caesar 24d ago
Ya, it seems like you’ll be right. Trump thrives off of telling people what they want to hear, so if he learned anything from last night it’s that he shouldn’t preach about vaccines. Just replace that bit with something about Hunter Biden and he’s back on track.
65
u/jupiterkansas 24d ago
Trump says everything and means nothing. And when you call Trump out on something he said, his supporters will point to where he said the opposite, as if being so blatantly two-faced is fine. They'll just cling to whatever comment they agree with most.
→ More replies→ More replies10
u/FauxReal 24d ago
He seemed at his best when he made vague remarks and left people fill in the blanks with their desires.
66
u/m0nkeybl1tz 24d ago
I actually think that DeSantis and Abbott are a step behind Trump (as usual) in understanding what’s popular with the Republican base.
People may not trust politicians or scientists, but what they do trust is their own experience and what they’ve been seeing (and will continue to see) is an increasing number of people getting vaccinated with no side effects, an increasing number of unvaccinated people dying or being hospitalized, and an increasing number of vaccinated people getting sick but having little to no symptoms.
Fox News is starting to walk back their antivax stance, moderate Republican governors are coming out in favor of getting vaccinated. Meanwhile people are rebelling against DeSantis’ mask mandate ban, and there are even rumblings of a recall effort. I think the number of never-vax Republicans will continue to dwindle and will not be a winning position come 2024.
19
u/Ventronics 24d ago
Just a heads up, Florida has no recall process. So while petitions to recall DeSantis have been making the rounds they are legally toothless.
8
u/Equal-Manufacturer63 24d ago
>Fox News is starting to walk back their antivax stance,
The same Fox news that mandates that staff disclose their vaccination status and follow strict covid protocols?
→ More replies37
u/ShouldersofGiants100 24d ago
I think the number of never-vax Republicans will continue to dwindle and will not be a winning position come 2024.
The issue they face is one of passion. Namely—people who still oppose the vaccine at this juncture are really opposed to the vaccine. Meanwhile, a lot of the people who have gotten it, representing a far larger population, might have done it for practical reasons with no ideological bent.
This enthusiasm gap makes it far harder to pander to the pro-vax side for Republicans than the anti-vax. Anti-vax rhetoric can be twisted into "yay freedom" and most pro-vax won't care, while the anti-vax side is passionate against it and will actively let it affect their vote if someone starts making demands of them.
30
u/nowayimpoopinhere 24d ago
I like your optimism! I hope you’re right.
Vaccination numbers do seem to be ticking up. I’ve just long ago given up on there being a point where reality actually matters.
13
u/robotractor3000 24d ago
I think the number of never-vax Republicans will continue to dwindle and will not be a winning position come 2024.
There's also another reason the amount of unvaccinated republicans might dwindle as the virus continues to take them out...
Not wishing this on anyone, if I could wave a wand and make everyone vaccinated I absolutely would. But it is going to be interesting to see whether that group getting disproportionately killed off will affect the political tides both intra-GOP and in national politics as a whole-- hard to pander to a crowd that is actively culling itself.
→ More replies→ More replies7
u/SpoonwoodTangle 24d ago
I’m not sure that Fox News still captures far right audiences. Far right family members of mine told me they “stopped watching Fox News”. I’m obv. concerned about whatever they’re watching now.
If it’s true that News Max, or whatever the “more free” news network is calling themselves, is indeed enjoying explosive growth, I guarantee the far right is shifting away from Fox.
16
u/HeavilyBearded 24d ago
Yeah, I see this quickly falling off the radar just like Trump's "infringement" on 2A with that ban on bump stocks.
11
u/Zappiticas 24d ago
Don’t forget the time he suggested we should take guns away before a crime is committed.
25
u/linedout 24d ago
Take the guns. Worry about due process later.
Obama was a better President on guns than Trump and not a single Republican can admit it.
4
u/sharp11flat13 24d ago
Or the time that he said women who get abortions should be punished.
Oh wait. His supporters would cheer for that.
3
u/Economy_Wall8524 24d ago
You think that’s bad, you should look up his old tweet on women in the military being raped
2
u/sharp11flat13 24d ago
Oh god. I’ll pass thanks. It’s almost dinner time and I don’t want to ruin my appetite.
4
u/BasesLoadedBalk 23d ago
These comments absolutely reek of people talking about topic in which they are missing a critical amount of information.
1st. DeSantis and Abbott are both very much pro-vaccine and have been recommending people get the vaccine for awhile. DeSantis. Abbott. What they are against is mandates, which Trump also agrees with. So how exactly would they "relish" an opportunity to break with Trump when their views quite literally line up on this issue and have never deviated from it?
2nd. Trump has been recommending vaccines for awhile now. Why are you acting like he is just now bringing it up and putting his weight behind it? 1. 2. If Trump was going to "drop" his vaccine stance then he would have a long while ago. Your statement makes me believe that you had no clue that he was recommending vaccines. He used Operation Warp Speed as a personal accomplishment for crying out loud.
I swear to God you people just throw shit at the wall and make up these weird scenarios in your heads.
→ More replies2
u/Docthrowaway2020 23d ago
While you make good points, I don’t know of other instances where Trump got pushback for promoting vaccines (which is not to say they don’t exist). We may see a change in his behavior on the topic following this rally.
4
u/first52 24d ago
If Abbott and DeSantis do want to drop Trump, they might just go ahead with it despite losing donors. He would be there one losing donors if the Nazi governor’s start saying that Trump’s vaccine push is an indication he’s lost his edge and isn’t Conservative enough.
→ More replies3
u/Ruly24 24d ago
2
u/mbta1 24d ago
They wrote a sentence about it in that article, and very quickly brush it off
→ More replies8
u/Ruly24 24d ago
It’s literally the title…
0
u/mbta1 24d ago
It is, yet again, only a single sentence in the article, as it highlights every thing else.
The title is more clickbait, than actually informing.
It says "there were some boos when he said vaccines", and then quickly move onto something else. They minimized it, and didn't even explain WHY they were booing, or anything about it.
If the bar you set, for reporting, is a single sentence, that's not much.
2
u/Ruly24 23d ago
What else is there to say than "Trump was booed because he mentioned vaccines".
They minimized it, and didn't even explain WHY they were booing, or anything about it.
"there were some boos when he said vaccines"
what more is there to explain than he was booed for talking about vaccines. And how is making something the headline of an article minimizing it. There is literally not more than a sentence to write on this.
1
u/mbta1 23d ago
You could very easily write about why they boo'd. The article has no issue explaining why they are cheering, and repeats itself numerous times, seems like they have no issue explaining things.
They also made weeks worth of articles on Bidens ice cream choices, so I don't think they have to try too hard, to explain why a cult is booing their cult leader
2
→ More replies2
u/Giblybits 24d ago
The Lincoln Project should clip just that section of his speech, cut out the boo’s, and just blast out ads everywhere.
166
u/gruey 24d ago
Most won't see the recommendation because right wing media will mostly ignore it so it won't matter.
A few will see it and get vaccinated.
Many will see it and assume "he's just joking" or "he's sending us a coded message not to get vaccinated"
Most who see it will just selectively ignore it, a skill you very much needed to support Trump in the first place.
→ More replies59
u/MyBiPolarBearMax 24d ago
I may expect a countervailing position to emerge.
Republicans are literally watching their voters die and can see how this will give power to the dems (more people have died in Fla than the margin for desantis’ win IIRC) and i expect party leaders talked to Trump to try to start to float this.
This is the first step in the Republicans gradual switch to total support of the vaccine and finding a way to blame Biden for not supporting it enough.
18
u/Glocks1nMySocks 24d ago
TBF there are likely many democratic voters dying too due to the low vaccination rate among african americans
39
u/gruey 24d ago
I think they are a little too afraid of knocking down their house of cards so they can't come out too in favor of it and they don't believe enough will die to really make a difference.
Yes, they'll criticize Biden for his covid failure, but won't be specific enough to say it was him failing to vaccinate people. Leave it vague and let their followers fill in the blanks. That's worked really well for them so far.
5
u/Gettingbetter 23d ago
On NPR this morning, I heard a prominent Bush Jr Era republican complaining that "both sides" have mismanaged the Covid response. So that's how we are probably going to see this play out. It's absolutely infuriating that Biden is somehow expected to manage this crisis better when there is actual open opposition at almost every level of the Republican party to acknowledge even the scale of the crisis.
9
u/Mjolnir2000 24d ago
The GOP has given up on democracy. They don't care if their voters die, because they'll just refuse to certify the election of anyone who isn't a Republican.
→ More replies2
u/Equal-Manufacturer63 24d ago
>more people have died in Fla than the margin for desantis’ win IIRC
Possibly, but the majority of those will have been Democrat voters, which is why DeSantis doesn't care.
Early in the pandemic it was disproportionately minorities working in service roles that require them to have face to face contact with consumers who were dying from Covid. Them and healthcare workers. That's not desantis base.
→ More replies
31
u/[deleted] 24d ago
No. FDA approval might help convince certain groups that are vaccine hesitant because of a bad history with questionable vaccines and the US Government; but it's unlikely to help those that can't help themselves.
→ More replies35
u/orygunmane 24d ago
I don’t think FDA approval will really move the needle. I know people have said they would get it when it’s approved, but I expect all those people to now claim the approval happened too fast and they don’t trust it.
31
u/nd20 24d ago edited 23d ago
Yeah I think the vast majority who cite the emergency approval as their reason for not getting it are being less than honest. They use it as a post hoc justification of their already-decided-upon refusal of the vaccine. As soon as full approval comes most will shift the goalposts—my guess is the new line will be "you can't trust this full approval, the whole thing was political from the beginning". Even though if you think about it for even a second, if it was a political process and the FDA was the white house's puppet the whole time—why would it take til Fall 2021 to be fully approved and not as soon as Biden became president in January? Rejecting the vaccine at this point, after a couple phases of clinical trials and a couple hundred million americans already walking around with it, has little to do with science or regulatory approval so I don't think new regulatory instruction will encourage many unvaxxed.
But I think a good chunk of people will get vaxxed if they need it to go to public events or their workplace. Hopefully businesses will be more willing to implement vaccine requirements for employees and/or customers after full approval. So in a roundabout way full approval from the FDA could actually make a difference.
→ More replies5
u/FesteringNeonDistrac 23d ago
Lots of businesses are starting to require either proof of vaccine or weekly tests. I think as the weekly burden of that begins to add up, there are a number of people who will abandon whatever has made them not get the Vax for convenience. If America has shown one thing, it's that people can not stand being put out for one second.
→ More replies9
u/Equal-Manufacturer63 24d ago
And keep in mind that for as long as I've been around those same people have been chanting about how the FDA approval process is overly burdensome and that there should be less regulation involved with pharmaceuticals in order to reduce the costs of medications.
9
u/orygunmane 24d ago
Not to mention those same people also oppose public healthcare because the private market produces the most innovative medicines.
And then they won’t take the medicine.
35
u/Hautamaki 24d ago
Looks like people are realizing that Trump was just riding the tiger all along. He didn't create it and he doesn't control it, he just happened to be the guy who jumped on top and if he jumps off now, the tiger will eat him, not the other way around.
→ More replies
34
u/djm19 24d ago
Trump tapped into something he could not fully control. He doesn't always get to decide where he steers the monster.
11
u/DeaconNuno 23d ago
Exactly. I’ve seen these people’s Facebook walls. It’s nothing but mean-spirited scoffing at everyone and everything, including (and sometimes especially) doctors and scientists. There’s no breaking through that. Facebook has an unbelievable amount of blood on its hands for letting this propaganda mind cancer spread.
→ More replies7
62
u/THECapedCaper 24d ago
I guess we'll wait and see. I think Trump has already poisoned the well in this regard. First it was made up, then it wasn't a big deal because it had a "low death rate," then it was "have a choice in whether to mask up or not," then it would be gone by Easter 2020, then it would be gone in the summer, then it was take hydroxychloroquine and inject bleach/disinfectant, then it'll be gone the day after Election Day. The play has been to downplay the virus at every turn, the fact that it took him this long to publicly support the vaccine in this capacity tells you all you need to know about his approach to COVID during his Presidency and his approach in public matters after his term was up.
I would be floored if this was the turning point for many of the Trump counties to finally get the shots, but in all honesty I think this is planned. The FDA may be giving full approval to the Pfizer shot as early as tomorrow; public and private mandates are on the way and we'll probably see the holdouts finally get the shots. I have no doubt that this public display of support for the vaccine is timed with this so that he can say "See? I got people to take the shot!" Trump has always been one to play a 2D version of Wag The Dog with campaigning, this is straight out of the playbook.
→ More replies2
u/gdan95 24d ago
But most of the country is already vaccinated anyway
11
22
u/THECapedCaper 24d ago
This is not the case in states that Trump won, nor in counties that Trump won. There is a clear partisan divide between getting vaccinated and not getting vaccinated, which is also kind of the purpose of this thread in the first place.
→ More replies9
u/eric987235 24d ago
Most but not nearly enough. I look forward to seeing how much “full approval” will move the needle.
21
u/schistkicker 24d ago
The goalposts will be immediately wheeled back to a new position of "the approval came too quickly, they didn't really do the right amount of studying first, it's still a bad vaccine and I'm not taking it!!!1!"
Source: my in-laws on Facebook
14
u/LookAnOwl 24d ago
I don’t think it will directly move the needle at all. Anyone saying it was the thing holding them back is likely full of it, and will move the goal posts again.
However, if full approval does allow more businesses and institutions to require the vaccine, that will help a lot.
→ More replies3
u/TheDuckOnQuack 24d ago
My guess is about 10-20% of unvaccinated people will be more likely to get it once it’s fully approved. The critical mass will move the goalposts.
They’ll claim it was approved too soon. They’ll draw a link between an FDA official and a board member of Wal Mart (or some other company that’s perceived to have benefited from lockdowns).
There will be emails released following a FOIA request and some innocuous questions or statements in them will be stripped of context and framed as proof that the vaccines are dangerous and that the FDA is covering it up.
3
u/Equal-Manufacturer63 24d ago
>some innocuous questions or statements in them will be stripped of context and framed as proof
That old rightwing media classic!
2
u/Equal-Manufacturer63 24d ago
Unfortunately they aren't.
Vaccinations in the US plateaued at about 50%, it's only at 56% now. Which is way too low to prevent Covid from continuing to be a pandemic.
There's plenty of blue states that are over 60%, and plenty of red ones that are under 50%. Looks pretty much like a map of the electoral college.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/coronavirus-covid-19/vaccine-tracker
There's countries like Chile, Iceland and Singapore that are in the high 70's.
6
u/sixtus_clegane119 24d ago
He got booed I wouldn’t be surprised if he never said a good thing about the vaccine again.
→ More replies
39
u/Crest45 24d ago
We essentially learned this in psychology (context: I'm a clinical psychology major). I have seen his supporters hold on to the beliefs that vaccines do not work or they will kill you. And they believe these so much they have the confidence to tell others. At this point, these are their core beliefs that have developed over time and is now engraved. They are at the point of no return and there's essentially no changing the minds of these people. It will make these people feel stupid and dumb that the beliefs they hold on to are false; and no one wants to feel stupid.
On the other hand, I highly doubt trump supporters will break with trump on this one issue. I mean, at this point its common knowledge that trump has been vaccinated since people often bring that up when speaking to these anti-vax trump supporters.
→ More replies8
u/AbleCaterpillar3919 24d ago
Also spoke out in support of them multiple times vaccinated. https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/mar/04/rachel-maddow/what-trump-said-encourage-covid-19-vaccine-use/
Even told people to be the test subjects. That's pretty big in favor
14
u/lannister80 24d ago
No. His supporters are really good at compartmentalization and living with cognitive dissonance. They'll still worship Trump and just ignore this one thing he said, forget he said it, etc.
7
u/Bigbluebuttonman 24d ago
Yeah. Haven’t seen one Conservative talking about it on their subreddit.
Every other part of the same rally? Yeah. Every part except that one.
→ More replies
18
u/Mongo_Straight 24d ago
Short answer: doubtful.
I heard an opinion recently asserting that Trump goes along with whatever his supporters want more so than his supporters following what he says, which would make sense in this case.
Unfortunately, my feeling is that those folks aren’t going to get onboard with vaccinations until private businesses, employers and public institutions start requiring them to and/or they get sick themselves.
→ More replies
18
u/Some-Wasabi1312 24d ago
Paranoia leads to major jumps in cognitive understanding. They will turn on him and claim the deep state got to him if he disagrees with the hive mind of conservative lunacy
1
u/rethinkingat59 24d ago
Do people just forget that Trump was blowing his horn on how quickly his administration was getting the vaccine through red tape in his campaign.
Biden and others implied he was rushing it and might be hesitant due to lack of trust in a Trump rushed vaccine.
Republicans always knew he was pro vaccination. They know every GOP governor is pro vaccination.
So of course those who oppose it booed his opinion on it.
Trump was always a huge vaccine guy.
5
u/Equal-Manufacturer63 24d ago
>Trump was always a huge vaccine guy.
Trump is an anti-vaxxer who in the past tweeted multiple times about vaccines causing autism in children.
Biden and others said that they would listen to scientists, and not Trump, when Trump was trying to rush approval of the vaccine so that he could use it for his political benefit.
17
u/montgomerydoc 24d ago
Won’t matter those majority of those still unvaccinated are deep rooted in arrogance and something like that doesn’t change easily.
I will say I’ve been able to convince more antivaxxers who test positive to get antibody treatment (which Trump also got) than get their vaccine.
Guess vaccine bad and injecting antibodies good?
Don’t get it. Likely never will. Just trying to keep people safe.
3
u/Diplomat_of_swing 23d ago
It’s probably too late now. I’m not a Trump supporter, but I can’t believe how this man botched the easiest of layups in politics. He could have easily won himself re-elections and had the media saying “today, Donald Trump became President””.
When a crisis happens, be consistent, ask everyone to come together for the good of the nation, look presidential.
Instead he chose rambling press conferences where he contradicted his experts moments after they spoke and then bragged about himself. And that was after months of downplaying the threat. What an imbecile.
10
u/matrix2002 24d ago
This is one of those “I recommend the vaccine”, wink wink.
His followers don’t believe he really wants them to get vaccinated. So, no, they won’t get vaccinated.
And this will kill thousands of them.
3
u/Adv2k169XLplusCats 24d ago
I think now it’s too late . The cake is baked for millions of his fans max If he accepted his loss like a man and asked everyone to get vaccinated in November 2020- February 2021 that would have been a huge difference . If he would have taken his shot live on TV that also would have helped. Sorry most of those people may not get vaccinated even if their love ones die from it . Many may wait until it’s too late and they have covid to want to get vaccinated or be on their deathbed. Honestly I think we are very close to maximizing how many people will get vaccinated.
3
u/blissful_bird 24d ago
theyre realizing that only republican voters are dying, and its going to affect future elections.
9
u/Hazterisk 24d ago
“Shoot somebody and not lose voters” sure, but get vaccinated? That’s the line in the sand.
I feel like I shouldn’t be surprised at this point.
9
u/Gertrude_D 24d ago
At this point, no. Trump is, and always was, a puppet whose strings were pulled by the populace. He was the one willing to be a disruptor, to call out the bullshit as they saw it, and be gloriously un-PC. He was saying what they wanted and they cheered and supported him. When he veers from script, he course corrects because he doesn't like the bad PR. They don't follow him for his policy opinions, they follow him for his mouth.
He is able to shape the narrative to a degree, but he's already said his bit on masking - it's weak. This ship's not going to turn around if the unvaxxinated are doing it on ideological grounds.
edit: I should have read the comments before adding my own. Seems like this is a common opinion.
8
u/PsychLegalMind 24d ago edited 24d ago
He still gets the greatest applause when he talks derogatorily about diversity, isolationism, going against our allies, attacking immigrants, attacking democrats, stop the steal and that capitol rioters were on a picnic. His attack on media is also a great applause line.
If he said COVID fake like he use to and Kung Flu; he would still get standing ovation. They do not care for him, they only like him when he behaves like them. This is how he maintains their support.
6
u/laodmouth 24d ago
I think it's far too late. He should of been vocally encouraging the vaccine at the top of his lungs in November and December, instead of losing 80 some court cases and encouraging a mob of his supporters to overthrow the American system. Instead, he's banned from the platforms that reach the most people, and in his place is a random mismatch of anti-vax and conspiracy accounts that share bogus lies through people's friends and families.
In order for Trump to get through now, 8 months after the fact, he basically has to convince his supporters that the information they got from their own friends and family (and possibly god, too) are factually wrong. Even for someone like Trump, that is a monumentally tall order to convince someone their uncle or their mother or their best friend is wrong on the facts, especially if they already have a disposition to agree with them, and frankly I don't know if Trump really has the ability to make the compassionate human argument to get through to those people.
Sad.
18
u/gaucheinthemachine 24d ago
Jesus Christ, Trump folks. The one good thing this fascist does is get a vaccine made under his watch and you guys boo him for that.
(I used to be one of those people who thought calling Trump a "fascist" was an absurd exaggeration. But after that "election fraud" crap he pulled, I don't know what else to call him. He tried to actively subvert US democracy...yep, that would be fascism.)
→ More replies
18
u/[deleted] 24d ago edited 14d ago
[deleted]
6
u/Equal-Manufacturer63 24d ago
Warp Speed did nothing to increase the speed with which the vaccine was available.
It's an empty PR stunt from a reality TV celebrity. Pretty much the same as everything Trump did during his administration.
Global cooperation on vaccine research had been started with the coordination of the WHO before Trump called covid-19 a hoax. Trump actually fucked up the vaccine rollout and massively missed his vaccination target for December. The Biden administration had to fix that, and used the Defense Production Act, something that Trump had mentioned doing multiple times but never actually carried through with.
Warp Speeds main recipient, Glaxo, $2.7B, does not yet have a vaccine candidate being tested.
3
u/BasesLoadedBalk 23d ago
Fauci himself said it was "unlikely" that the vaccine would have been made so fast without Operation Warp Speed. Biden's administration also said that Trump deserves some credit regarding it.
Fauci also said this:
"Operation Warp Speed will go down historically as a highly successful endeavor, which allowed us to do things with regard to the timing of it and the effectiveness of it in a way that a few years ago people never would have imagined ...," he said. "It was a combination, of the fundamental basic science science that was done right here at the NIH[National Institutes of Health], as well as places that were funded by the NIH and by the Department of Defense and other government agencies.That, plus the creative initiative of Operation Warp Speed, made this possible.
So who to believe... Fauci or some random obvious partisan on the internet..
→ More replies7
u/i7-4790Que 24d ago
He took the vaccine in secret. Where as Biden, in contrast, got on camera for it. Probably because touting his acxomplishments suddenly didn't matter because he lost the election.
Pepperidge Farm aint got the memory it likes to pretend it does.
→ More replies8
u/Equal-Manufacturer63 24d ago
>Trump got it and publicly told his supporters he got it and recommended it.
He did not.
It only came out in the media about a month later, after the change of administration that Trump had secretly taken the vaccine before leaving office.
8
u/RickySlayer9 24d ago
Trump supporters love trump for what he stands for. They don’t idolize trump. Their ideals first, and then the man who most closely reflects them
6
u/SinoInsano 24d ago
I believe they support him because he is strong, that is all they respect.
Now he is weak and a loser in their eyes. The worst thing Trump ever did to them was lose, not all the nasty shit he said and did.
6
u/JalapenoTampon 24d ago
I wish that were true but they don't think he lost. If the election was tomorrow Trump voters would happily vote for him again.
9
u/80_firebird 24d ago
But he was never strong, just had a big mouth.
→ More replies4
u/SinoInsano 24d ago
Even still he got millions of people to legitimately believe an election was stolen without evidence.
Granted he had help, but even though I dislike him I have admit that is an almost cult-like power over them.
→ More replies2
u/RickySlayer9 24d ago
No, that’s simply false. It was because their ideals were closely related, not some strange idea about “strength” or whatever you seem to think.
→ More replies0
u/sizl 24d ago
They love him because he’s blonde. Get another charismatic blonde dude with right wing views and watch the power transfer happen.
→ More replies
2
u/ptwonline 24d ago
I doubt it.
The "Trump Magic" over his followers worked because:
He played to the things they wanted to believe. Since the start of his campaign I basically observed that he had little original idea of what his base really wanted, but just copied what some of the right wing media were saying that was popular.
Those things that were popular were continuously reinforced before and after he would say it by conservative media and on social media. Basically, the propaganda machine went into full action.
So what about vaccines? His base has been drowning in anti-vaxx, COVID is not that dangerous propaganda for months, and so they don't want to hear a message about taking the vaccine...even from Trump. Furthermore, the propaganda machine probably won't back him up on this because they know that they want to use the threat of future lockdowns, mask-wearing, the danger of vaccinations, and the threat of fuiture restrictions on the unvaccinated as a wedge issue that will have a lot of traction on the right, and even a fair amount in the middle and on parts of the left. They want to use a "Back to normal. NO MORE RESTRICTIONS!" message to win the next midterms and Presidential elections. And it will probably work.
People accepting that COVID is dangerous and that they should thus get vaccinated and that it may be a good idea to sometimes have restrictions? That will blow up their election issue to use to fearmonger over a Dem victory. So they won't do it, even if Trump says they should get vaccinated.
5
u/CentralGaming1 24d ago
Did y'all forget Trump got the vaccine while in office? I mean this should've been known he supported it for a while
8
u/Equal-Manufacturer63 24d ago
Trump took the vaccine in secret while in office, it was only made public about a month later.
1
u/anthonyfg 24d ago
Yeah oddly enough it was Kamala saying she didn’t trust it
14
u/Equal-Manufacturer63 24d ago
Vice President Harris said that she doesn't trust Trump, not that she didn't trust the vaccine.
She said to look to scientists to get approval for the vaccines use, not politicians.
4
u/unitythrufaith 24d ago
Desantis, Abbot, and Trump have been consistently pro-vaccine since the moment they became available, i don't think it will matter
2
u/zlefin_actual 24d ago
I wonder what will happen if Trump keeps speaking out in support for the vaccine. Trump's stances change a lot, and his supporters views seem fairly malleable at times. It may also depend on how he responds to covid more generally; as the anti-vax sentiment around covid is also bound up with a number of the other responses to it. Frequency of repetition may have a significant effect; some things Trump hammers again and again quite frequently, others its far more intermittent.
It may also depend on how emphatic he's being. There have been a few times (or so I've heard), where it seems like Trump was more pressured into saying something rather than doing so because he wanted to.
3
u/Trygolds 24d ago
He was booed at a rally when he supported the vaccine. Trump is all about optics at these rallies so he will never say that again.
4
u/mathzak 24d ago
“Anti-vaxxers are just Trump Qanoner cultists who do whatever their master says”
Crowd openly booes Trump in Alabama rally, his first time pushing for it
Continues to believe anti-vaxxers are just Trump cultists with no logical reasoning behind their decision to not get vaccinated
→ More replies
2
u/MickieMallorieJR 24d ago
Didn't they just boo him last nite when he mentioned they should get the vaccine?
2
u/Dry-Honeydew2371 24d ago
It's too late. He could've had a positive influence on them back in January when he got it but he never gave a shit about public health or the greater good but only for himself.
He knew that a sizable chunk of his base are conspiracy theory tin foil hat wearing nutjobs, as well as naturalpaths, religious zealots and other uneducated retrumplicans who will never accept the science. So he chose to keep his vaccination staus quiet and not use his platform to spread the importance of getting vaccine.
Otherwise it would upset his previous base because they already know the "truth" and the majority of Trump's power is built off of misinformation.
2
u/neverbetray 24d ago
This still seems like a false dichotomy to me. If the two issues are vaccination and personal freedom, why not just choose to be vaccinated? That would seem to satisfy both the "red herring" problem of personal freedom and the need to stop the virus before it mutates again into something the vaccine can't stop.
2
u/vasion123 24d ago
Jesus Christ could descend from the heavens in a glorious ray of holy light and preach that everyone should get the vaccine and these people would still reject it. They don't follow logic so logic doesn't apply to them.
They will only start getting the vaccine when their loved ones start dying from it. They are incapable of seeing into the future and learning from others mistakes because they are mentally the age of 6.
2
u/Flowman 23d ago
For a figure who's word has so often been taken as unquestioned guidance by his loyalist, will his support make a difference to his unvaccinated and/or skeptical supporters?
Trump has never been anti-vaccine. In fact, he has constantly touted that there would be no vaccine without him. Whether or not this is entirely accurate is another question. But this idea that people aren't taking the vaccine because of Trump is misguided and not rooted in fact.
How do we square this move when we consider that some of his most ardent supporters in government (Abbott, DeSantis, Zeldin) are consistently pushing policies that forbid safety precautions and endorse personal liberty?
No one is forbidding anyone from wearing a mask or being vaccinated. They are only forbidding government from forcing people to do such things against their will. This is a disingenuous statement.
→ More replies
-4
u/AbleCaterpillar3919 24d ago
The thing is trump was always for being vaccinated. https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/mar/04/rachel-maddow/what-trump-said-encourage-covid-19-vaccine-use/ It's just the media was successful as painting him anti vac. I personally would also to see what he was being told about masks. We know facui did tell people masks does not help they even said it had to be a N95 mask when they started to tell people to wear them. https://www.google.com/amp/s/slate.com/technology/2021/07/noble-lies-covid-fauci-cdc-masks.amp
34
u/ParadeSit 24d ago
The criticism is that he talks out of both sides of his mouth on the issue. He can never just give a full-throated endorsement without some sort of caveat. Even at the rally, he immediately pivoted to telling the crowd they have their “freedoms” when he realized it was getting poor reception.
5
u/AltMiddle 24d ago
To his credit, he did tell the crowd in no uncertain terms to get vaxxed. They then fell silent and then booed him.
He did make a flip comment, "If it doesn't work you'll be the first to know."
3
u/AbleCaterpillar3919 24d ago
Read the politifact article.
19
u/ParadeSit 24d ago
I know exactly what he said and didn’t say. He takes every single position so he can always pivot. Again, the criticism is not that he never said to get vaccinated (he did), it’s that he and Melania hid getting theirs and he always has a “…but” statement after he says to get one. His followers only hear what he says after the “but.”
→ More replies-7
u/WavelandAvenue 24d ago
It is not “taking every position” to be both pro-vaccine and anti-mandate. I’m growing tired of people and media on the left failing to understand that very basic concept.
12
u/ParadeSit 24d ago
It wasn’t “anti-mandate.” Trump told them to get the shot, but also that they have the freedom to not get the shot. Which do you think they’re going with?
1
u/WavelandAvenue 24d ago
“It wasn’t “anti-mandate.” Trump told them to get the shot, but also that they have the freedom to not get the shot. Which do you think they’re going with?”
Reread what you wrote; you literally just restated my point.
Someone saying “you should get the shot, but you shouldn’t be forced to get the shot,” is taking the position of being pro-vaccine and anti-mandate. How are you not understanding that?
10
u/ParadeSit 24d ago
I’m saying he’s giving a mealy-mouthed stance on this issue and, his supporters, the ones who are the most vulnerable considering the low vaccination rates, need to be told in stark and dire terms to get vaccinated. Full stop.
3
u/WavelandAvenue 24d ago
And I’m saying it’s not mealy-mouthed, or contradictory in any way, to take the position of being pro-vaccine and anti-mandate.
7
u/Russelsteapot42 24d ago
Trump could have taken the position that it was every American's duty to get vaccinated and wear a mask if necessary, and that by doing so they are being patriotic. Frankly anything less than that I consider an utter failure of his duty as a president.
→ More replies-3
u/malawax28 24d ago
Trump told them to get the shot, but also that they have the freedom to not get the shot.
Are you suggesting he tell them that they don't have the freedom to not get the shot?
7
u/ParadeSit 24d ago
I’m suggesting he could go with something like, “Get the shot. Look at the stats. It’s killing the unvaccinated in great numbers. I know some of you are booing, but get the shot.” The end. There’s no need to throw the opposing view in each time since it’s killing his own supporters, but we’re dealing with a guy who goes to the least vaccinated state in the country and has a virtually maskless rally with his supporters crammed in like cattle.
2
u/malawax28 24d ago
The guy can't stay on message, even his supporters don't like that about him. So him telling them to get the vaccine is at least a start.
6
u/ParadeSit 24d ago
Well, on that we agree. He always has such a low bar to clear each time he opens his mouth, so at least he is telling them to get vaccinated.
1
u/AbleCaterpillar3919 24d ago
You can't force stupid people what do you forcefully give people the shot? Lock them up if they don't get it? Fine them? That's freaking tyranny. The best we can do is encourage and reward people for doing. Even rewarding stuff is iffy
→ More replies→ More replies-5
u/Positive_Girl 24d ago edited 24d ago
I live in Texas and I’m glad Abbott believes in the people of Texas to make good choices for themselves and their families. I don’t need NOR do I want government mandating vaccines or proof of vaccination cards. God Bless Texas!
→ More replies-2
u/WavelandAvenue 24d ago
I wish all governors or local units of government were led by people with that view.
Once the vaccine was widely available to all that wanted it, I’ve had this view: it’s a small but non-zero risk to get covid without the vaccine. It’s a small but non-zero risk to take the vaccine. Everyone has had a chance to make their choice, and accept the level of risk that goes with that choice. So now, let’s all get back to living our lives.
→ More replies3
u/Russelsteapot42 24d ago
You realize that getting Covid affects more people than just you, right?
→ More replies2
u/WavelandAvenue 24d ago
Yes. You realize that if you are vaccinated you can still get it and transmit it, right?
3
u/Russelsteapot42 24d ago
You realize that being vaccinated makes it dramatically less likely for that to happen, right?
→ More replies→ More replies3
u/Equal-Manufacturer63 24d ago
>We know facui did tell people masks does not help
I admire the way in which you continue to remove the context from that in order to create a false narrative.
→ More replies
-1
u/CryptoBeachBum88 24d ago
He has always been pro vax as far as I know. As long as it's a free choice I don't have a problem with you or anyone else taking the vax. The moment it's mandated I have a BIG PROBLEM with it!
3
u/orygunmane 24d ago
Other than all of the years he repeatedly stated publicly that he thinks vaccines cause autism.
3
u/Equal-Manufacturer63 24d ago
Trump's notoriously anti-vax, he tweeted multiple times about vaccines causing autism.
→ More replies3
u/i7-4790Que 24d ago
He used anti-vax talking points in the 2016 primaries.
And you'd have problems with the eradication of something like polio? That's weird.
1
•
u/AutoModerator 24d ago
A reminder for everyone. This is a subreddit for genuine discussion:
Violators will be fed to the bear.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.