yes, and vaccinated people that have breakthrough infections suffer much milder symptoms (if at all) so if every gets the fucking vaccine then we can get the pandemic taken care of. but don't disregard the facts because they don't fit your narrative.
You're an idiot, green pass claims to allow only vaccinated in certain places based on the false premise they won't catch and spread the virus. We now know they catch and spread it the same as non-vaccinated. That's straight out of the CDC. Same viral load as non-vaccinated.
As for your fake concern over the medical system, will you now call for the exile of smokers and people who eat shitty foods? Maybe we can make internment camps for all of us since your main concern is the cost of health care, which I BTW, pay for myself.
Just a side note, green passes are NOT about hospitals or health care, they assume those who are vaccinated won't catch and spread the virus which we now know they probably catch and spread just the same as non-vaccinated so the pass scheme is a lie. I know this is a lot for you, I can grab my crayons and draw cute pictures for you if you need.
LMFAO, the leading causes of death in the world is cancer and heart disease. COVID is number 17, not even close, and will fall off the list as soon as we stop the BS lockdowns and masking and just live with it as Sweden has. Natural herd immunity has always been the answer coupled with treatments, not vaccinations since no flu vaccine has ever gotten rid of any flu and since varients happen every year, there is no way to keep up with them unless you want to get vaxxed every 6 months for the rest of your life.
My family doctor and CDC guidelines. I don't like to play fast and loose with an airborne disease. When I see the CDC and my family doctor giving the all-clear I'll be satisfied, even if that means that I overprotect myself out of self-preservation.
I also wear seatbelts and when I use power equipment, I wear hearing protection and eye protection. You know, basic non-moron stuff.
Yes actually canada and the UK are going to be smoke free by 2035 and obeisity is next biggest killer in north america besides abortion. It needs to change. If you smoke and or are obeise all health outcomes are more severe including covid.
Just in the interest of philosophical debate, would you support a similar ban on the overweight/obese where we limited their ability to work or access public services?
Maybe everyone gets a number associated with their BMI, and that number dictates what you can or cannot do?
No I would not agree with that. I would agree with morbidly obese and smokers to pay a decent premium on their health care, long term care and treatment related to their bad choices.
Okay, but what does that do to unburden the medical system that we all use? The argument is that those with Covid are overtaxing the medical system and it's affecting the rest of us. Likewise, those who take poor care of themselves are overtaxing the medical system, and it's affecting all of us. Charging them higher premiums doesn't fix that.
I'm 35 and healthy. I have no existing medical conditions. I have medical insurance, and I go for a yearly checkup. That is quite literally the extent of my use of the medical system for the last 15 or so years. I don't smoke, I don't drink, I don't do risky things. How should I be treated the same as someone who does?
It's not always a choice. Foods now are filled with all sorts of unhealthy shit to make people overeat. For example chip companies hire scientists and food engineers to maximize the satisfaction and texture of products. Does that help people overeat? You bet. Does that increase sales and market share and profits? Yes, that's why it's done.
So it's not as simple as blaming fat people for being fat. They're not innocent but it's not all on them.
I love ice cream. Seriously, probably my favorite thing in the food department. I went in for a yearly physical before Covid, and my cholesterol numbers were on the higher side. Nothing crazy, but enough that I needed to be aware. I stopped eating ice cream and started eating oatmeal everyday for breakfast. Do I miss ice cream? Absolutely! But ultimately I'm responsible for my own health. I take your point that the system is rigged against them, but ultimately it comes down to personal responsibility and will power.
Not everyone has the same will power you do. Should they be discarded as subhuman trash because they're not as strong as you?
I don't believe so. They're fellow humans and they're not doing well.
The other problem is that once you become fully obese, it takes far more willpower than a correction like you took for yourself. The weight wants to stay on and it secretes hormones to force your body to keep it on.
To ask an obese person to simply lose weight once their own body works against them is like asking you to remain celibate. Could you do it? Do you have enough willpower? How many people do you think do? Food is even more important to our bodies and we crave it (neurological and biochemical reasons why) when we're hungry. It's part of who we are as living organisms. It's hard to override such a basic instinct deep in our being.
Spend more time understanding the problem and less time looking down at your fellow human, otherwise I can easily look down on you for not understanding a goddamned thing about this.
Not at all, and I agree with you, which is precisely my point. Likewise I don't believe those who don't want to be vaccinated, whatever their reason, should be treated as subhuman. I don't think they should be made destitute, unable to work.
I think the risk they posed has changed now that vaccinations are widely available. Anyone who wants one is no longer at risk by those that do not. As for their "clogging" of the medical system, why not just make it law that in life or death situations they take lowest priority? I think that's a far more fair system. If there is capacity, they get normal treatment, but if there is not, then they must wait. That gives them the freedom they want without risking additional lives but their own.
Likewise I don't believe those who don't want to be vaccinated, whatever their reason, should be treated as subhuman. I don't think they should be made destitute, unable to work.
Neither do I but people don't want to take risks with them. Not vaccinating is more of a choice than obesity. Not getting a vaccine is an instant event. Becoming obese takes months to years. It's nowhere near the same level of dedication or effort required. One is a medical problem, the other is concentrated stupid.
As for their "clogging" of the medical system, why not just make it law that in life or death situations they take lowest priority? I think that's a far more fair system. If there is capacity, they get normal treatment, but if there is not, then they must wait. That gives them the freedom they want without risking additional lives but their own.
That's what's being proposed by doctors in Texas right now. They're being hit hard by Delta for some reason, we'll find out as scientists do their work and release studies but that will take months. In the meantime Gov. Abbott had to order freezer trailers from FEMA to keep up with all the bodies overflowing in the morgues.
Smokers go to the back of the line for lung transplants and it might be the same with antivaxxers and healthcare. They have the freedom to make bad choices, but they don't have the right or the privilege to be protected from the consequences of their own stupid actions, not if there's no hospital capacity.
So it sounds like the only real thing we're in disagreement over is the risk the unvaccinated pose to society at large.
I've said it a number of times now, but if an unvaccinated person enters into a room with a bunch of vaccinated people, the risk they pose is nearly non-existent. What is the issue?
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u/stratamaniac Aug 07 '21
Fight for the freedom to infect! Last week they protested against condoms