r/PublicFreakout Aug 07 '21

Large protests are underway in Paris and many other cities in France against vaccine passports and mandatory vaccinations. 😷Pandemic Freakout

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u/DramDemon Aug 08 '21 edited Aug 08 '21

I don’t think that’s how that works, but I’d have to look into it. We have all the answers because this has been a thing for decades.

EDIT: It’s hard to sort through all the COVID vaccine exemption bullshit, but it looks like you still pay taxes for the school system even if your child can’t go there, since it’s based on where you live.

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u/froprz Aug 08 '21

I'm not against the vaccine, i'm vaccinated myself, but i'm against how much the governments wants to force us to do something like this, this is only one thing, what would the next thing be.

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u/DramDemon Aug 08 '21

But again, it’s been this way for decades and nobody has said anything against it. It’s part of participating in society. You can’t kill people, by fist or by blade, by breath or by sneeze. If you’re choosing to risk lives, you don’t get to participate in society.

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u/froprz Aug 08 '21

Interesting, which other vaccines are french citizens also forced to take?

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u/DramDemon Aug 08 '21

http://beh.santepubliquefrance.fr/beh/2006/29_30/beh_29_30_2006.pdf

Some are recommended, some are required, some are specific situations. 2006 is the oldest I could find, but I don’t know French so it’s probably easier for someone who does to find a better one.

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u/froprz Aug 08 '21

That's a bit scary, luckily we're having the freedom in my country to decide for ourself, and at the same time we're probably doing better than most other countries.

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u/DramDemon Aug 08 '21

If you’re scared of modern medicine I feel bad for you, and I really hope your country realizes they shouldn’t allow you to enjoy the safety of modern medicine if you won’t participate in it.

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u/froprz Aug 08 '21

I've already said that i'm vaccinated myself, in our country we get educated so we can learn and decide for ourself, that's freedom.

We're not forced to do it and we're still doing better than most countries, that's something other countries should learn from.

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u/TheOriginalGregToo 20d ago

I obviously agree with the concept that you shouldn't be allowed to intentionally harm others in a society (ie murder, assault, etc), but it seems rather arbitrary as to where we draw the line. Covid is not a "sure thing" in the sense that trying to murder someone requires a certain level of intent and execution. Virus transmission does not (at least in this context). It isn't certain that you have/will pass Covid, and it isn't certain that if you did someone will be seriously harmed. I don't see a logical or moral consistency with the argument that not being vaccinated is tantamount to a societal crime, but in California for instance it is no longer a felony to knowingly infect someone with HIV, a virus that has a much higher certainty of serious, life changing/ending implications. Why are we selectively and unequally advocating for this?

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u/DramDemon 20d ago

Nothing has a 100% chance of death, especially with modern medicine. People survive gunshot wounds, car crashes, stabbings, poisons, etc. all the time. If your argument is that there has to be a certain likelihood of harm, then there's no winning against you because you can just keep changing it.

Personally, I would stick to the "your rights end where mine begin" mindset and say that if you are intentionally trying to hurt someone, regardless of how likely, you don't have that right. Knowingly infecting someone with HIV is still illegal, just not a felony. Knowingly infecting someone with COVID should also be illegal. If you decide you want to ignore rules because you feel like it, you should be separated from society because you obviously have no sense of morals whatsoever.

Lastly, why the fuck are you replying to a 16 day old comment?

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u/TheOriginalGregToo 20d ago

Generally our laws are structured around the concept that the punishment should fit the crime. More serious crimes result in more serious punishment. That obviously isn't true across the board, but I think that's the generally accepted intent. Would you rather have Covid, a disease in which you have a 99% chance of full recovery, or HIV, a disease that up until very recently had nearly a 100% death rate, and years of complications? For me it's a no-brainer. With that in mind, I think the "punishment" for Covid should be orders of magnitude less harsh than that for HIV transmission. In practice, preventing someone from travel, work, public access, etc is significantly more harsh than a simple misdemeanor.

My point in all this is not to necessarily equate covid to HIV, but to make the point that the fervor towards covid and covid restrictions don't track with our own previously established metrics on how to handle other public health situations. It feels like an authoritarian overreach.

Lastly, why the fuck are you so angry?

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u/DramDemon 20d ago

Ah, the ol’ “99%” bullshit. I think we’re done here.

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u/TheOriginalGregToo 20d ago

How is that bullshit? The numbers I have seen put the survival rate of Covid around 99%. Is that inaccurate?

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u/DramDemon 20d ago

Basic arithmetic proves you wrong, but you don’t care about that. You could very easily go to google, cdc, nhs, literally anyone, and do some basic division (deaths/cases) and see that before vaccines it was around 97.7%, and now it’s about 98.5%. So yeah, it’s just a bullshit right-wing lie that you keep peddling.

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u/TheOriginalGregToo 20d ago

Uh-oh, watch out, we're disagreeing over .5%

You do things every day that have at least a .5% chance of death. The fact that you would dismiss me and my points out of hand because of a .5% difference in the numbers we're citing is absurd and dishonest, but I guess it's much easier to call someone a shil and blow them off than actually take the time to refute their points.

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u/TheOriginalGregToo 17d ago

Uh-oh, look what I found...

Looks like everyone below 50 has a 99.6% survival rate according to the CDC. What happened to me being so "wildly off that you couldn't bear to converse with someone so anti-science"?

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u/reading_internets Aug 08 '21

But seatbelt and drunk driving laws are from the government. You know why? Because it saves lives.

Kinda like vaccines do.

Sometimes the population is too dumb to do the thing that is safest for everyone. So the government has to step in lest 616k more Americans die from covid. It's not like they're pushing for mandating we all...go vegan. It's a matter of public health and safety.