r/PublicFreakout • u/CantStopPoppin • 19d ago
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u/CantStopPoppin 19d ago
The Minnesota Supreme Court on Tuesday declined to hear an appeal by opponents of Enbridge Energy's Line 3 oil pipeline, letting stand a key decision by independent regulators to allow construction on the project to proceed.
Without comment, the state's highest court declined to take the case, issuing a one-page order that effectively affirmed a decision in June by the Minnesota Court of Appeals. And it left the Native American and environmental groups that have been protesting at construction sites across northern Minnesota with a dwindling number of legal options.
The Court of Appeals declared that the state's Public Utilities Commission correctly granted Calgary, Alberta-based Enbridge a certificate of need and route permit for the 337-mile Minnesota segment of what's a larger project to replace an aging crude oil pipeline built in the 1960s that can run at only half capacity. The court also backed the commission's approval of the environmental review for the project.
The Supreme Court's decision on Tuesday dismayed the opponents, who cited the impacts of climate change being felt around the world and the drought in Minnesota. They have long argued that the replacement Line 3 violates treaties and threatens waters where wild rice grows, and that the oil it carries will aggravate global warming.
“The rights of a Canadian corporation continue to prevail over the laws of nature and the human rights of Anishinaabe people," Winona LaDuke, executive director of the Indigenous based environmental group Honor the Earth, said in a statement. "It’s a sad day for Minnesota. That a court would rule there is no environmental impact when the rivers have been sucked dry and scientists are declaring a Code Red for the planet is deeply disturbing. A crime is being committed in front of us all. And now Enbridge is set to make a profit off the destruction of our north.”
But Enbridge welcomed the decision. The Minnesota segment is approaching 90 percent complete, while the portions in Canada, North Dakota and Wisconsin are already finished. The Line 3 replacement will carry Canadian crude from Alberta to Enbridge’s terminal in Superior, Wisconsin. Enbridge expects to put it into service sometime in the fourth quarter this year.
“The project is providing real world economic benefits for Minnesota counties, small businesses, Native American communities, and union members — including creating thousands of family-sustaining construction jobs, and millions of dollars in local spending and tax revenues,” Embridge spokeswoman Juli Kellner said in an email. “Enbridge has already spent well over $287 million project dollars specifically with tribal nations, citizens, communities, and contractors.”
Line 3 opponents are holding a series of events at the state Capitol in St. Paul this week, including a march and rally on Wednesday to call on President Joe Biden to order the Army Corps of Engineers to cancel the project's federal permits despite its impending completion. They say Democratic Gov. Tim Walz has already failed them. More than 700 protesters have been arrested or ticketed along the route since construction in Minnesota began last December.
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u/purplecurtain16 19d ago
Why are you getting downvoted for giving context?
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u/CantStopPoppin 19d ago
I have a dedicated team of haters that thrive on my posts and go out of their way to downovte me. However they forget that downvoting me does not make me wrong.
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u/DaniolioliDizzler 18d ago
Seriously.. Because people who down vote on things like simple context are miserable keyboard warriors who desperately need a life & want to bring others down too. Down voting shouldn't be allowed except to down vote jerks. Not people setting the record straight or having their own opinions & thoughts!
(Bring on the down votes you miserable haters!!).
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u/heck_is_other_people 19d ago
“The rights of a Canadian corporation continue to prevail over the laws of nature and the human rights of Anishinaabe people,"
Do you know if the Minnesota Anishinaabe have been in contact with the Canadian Anishinaabe for Canadian political pressure?
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u/Notquitesafe 19d ago
The fact he identified as anishinaabe makes me suss as hell. Thats a catch all term for a dozen tribes and hundreds of bands. It seems purposely vague to keep from being identified as a member of any particular band
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u/zixwax 18d ago
Winona LaDuke is a well known activist: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winona\_LaDuke
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u/giraffebacon 18d ago
That's bullshit. I know tons of nish people who identify as nish. It's like identifying as American, instead of by your state
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u/ApprehensivePaint657 18d ago
Same, some of my friends get into their clans for fun, but I've never heard any of them get mad about using it as a general term of identification.
It was explained to me that the different bands all share similar culture, so yeah. Like saying you're an American instead of Minnesotan.
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u/NativeFromMN 18d ago edited 18d ago
Exactly. I personally have my flair as Anishinaabe on the r/IndianCountry subreddit, I don't really specify my clan or band unless asked or someone provides theirs to me.
It tends to be easier to just say Anishinaabe/Ojibwe, as simply saying "Native" is too broad, and there are many who know their tribal affiliation, but are unclear on the specifics of their band or clan due to it being lost in history.
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u/Notquitesafe 17d ago
I think that band identity and tribal culture seems so different in the US than in Canada. Up here identifying yourself that way would immediately cause tension, like your trying to identify as native in the most generic way possible. I guess our version of it is saying what treaty number your band is in but even then you would probably get called out on it quick. Nobody likes a person posing as native, cultural appropriation is a serious hot button here
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u/NativeFromMN 17d ago
Yeah, I personally feel First Nations have to jump through harsher policies and prejudices. But it often feels like fighting the same kinds of battles.
I honestly find having to learn and remember band, nation, tribe, and clan is a not only a bit of juggling, but not an opportunity many Natives have.
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u/Notquitesafe 17d ago
No need to be so aggressive about it. It’s just not a thing up here. If someone in canada said that instead of lakota or nakota everyone in the room would be going side eye and wtf they are talking about. The poster was asking about reaching out up north and I think band politics and identity is just allot different up here
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u/giraffebacon 17d ago edited 17d ago
I'm literally canadian and have lived for years with and around nish people, and sorry for being aggressive but you're spreading straight up misinformation for what seems like politically motivated reasons. Lakota and nakota are also not anishnaabe, as a side note
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u/Desperate_Deer_3824 19d ago
oil death cult still at it strong. We will never meet any emissions goal
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u/alittlesunshine244 19d ago
These are native lands and they deserve respect.
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u/[deleted] 19d ago
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u/ApprehensivePaint657 18d ago
The point of NO LINE 3 and END LINE 3 is just that. They are not omitting "replacement", it needs to be shut down.
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u/12FAA51 19d ago
So they will just keep using it and keep having more spills.
Then the solution is SHUT IT OFF.
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u/geraldspoder 19d ago
If they shut it off, then the oil has to go by train, which is one of the least safe ways to transport it. See things like Lac Megantic for example.
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u/cretsben 19d ago
No the solution is to not transport it full stop because yes the old pipe and truck or rail transportation is also dangerous.
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u/12FAA51 19d ago
No, if they shut it off, the oil stays in the ground and you don't use a train.
Lac Megantic for example
is a great reason to keep the oil in the ground.
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u/REDDITIZEVIL_ 19d ago
Ok. Will you convert your car to steam tomorrow?
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u/clandestineVexation 19d ago
gotta convert eventually. something like 40 years of oil left
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u/LivingGhost371 19d ago
Remember that in 1919 we said that peak oil production would happen in 3 years? Chances are we're going to keep finding more oil until we don't need it any longer.
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u/REDDITIZEVIL_ 19d ago
something like 40 years of oil left
lol no.
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u/clandestineVexation 19d ago
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u/REDDITIZEVIL_ 19d ago
We've had "40 years of oil left" since the 70s
Im sure this report is different though.
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u/12FAA51 19d ago edited 19d ago
why? It runs perfectly on electricity powered by solar, wind and hydro.
e: apparently having an electric car is unpopular lol
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u/REDDITIZEVIL_ 19d ago
How does it get electricity? Coal and oil and sometimes nuclear
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u/LivingGhost371 19d ago edited 19d ago
Not going to happen. We need oil, so it's going to go by train if not by pipeline. So leave your idealistic fantasies behind and pick one.
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u/12FAA51 19d ago
Well, maybe it's time to reevaluate your assertion "we need oil".
That's just perpetuating the environmental disaster you fuckwit
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u/LivingGhost371 19d ago edited 19d ago
Get some grounding in reality. The entire country is not going to change to running on unicorn breaths because oil is bad.
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u/12FAA51 19d ago
Sorry, what I think is irrelevant. Oil is objectively bad and that's why it needs to be phased out.
This "unicorn breath" you're talking about is called the sun lol.
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u/VicariousPanda 18d ago
No one is claiming oil isn't bad. They are saying it's temporarily necessary.
'you fuck wit'
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u/NovaDeez 17d ago
Okay, is shutting down Line 3 going to stop all oil production for the country? It's like admitting you needs to tighten your budget, but also refusing to spend a single penny less than you currently are.
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u/hobbers 18d ago
If they shut it off, then the oil has to go by train, which is one of the least safe ways to transport it. See things like Lac Megantic for example.
Perhaps train transport should have a massive insurance cost or tax on it to account for the safety risk then?
It always confuses me when people claim markets need certain things, but then don't acknowledge that markets will wind up paying in the end anyways. Pipe is leaking? Well, we still gotta transport, so just let it leak. Uh no, how about you enforce laws requiring all leaks to be 100% contained, 100% cleaned up, within 6 hours, otherwise the operating license is revoked? And said enforcement is paid for by taxing the industry requiring the enforcement. Companies can't make the numbers work, and shut down? Well, that's the market clearly indicating that all costs considered, we shouldn't be doing this activity.
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u/VicariousPanda 18d ago
Insurance doesn't suddenly make the environmental risks or damages any less in the event of spills.
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u/uglychodemuffin 19d ago
When gas hits $7.99/gallon you’ll be the first one bitching about it. Sit the fuck down child.
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u/zerovoid0 19d ago
Let the price of gas go up! People can drive a little less or buy an electric car.
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u/12FAA51 19d ago
I fucking wish gas is $7.99 gallon lol
then people will stop buying pickups and SUVs to drive to the grocery store
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u/NativeFromMN 18d ago edited 18d ago
Right? I started biking more in part to avoid spending money on gas.
I feel a lot of people's logic for the pipeline is "If we shut it down gas prices will go up". But it seems like the public pressure to switch to renewable resources is slow because we try to make gas more affordable and accessible, so it becomes more depended on.
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u/12FAA51 18d ago
It's the whole bad faith argument of "WilL soMEoNE tHInK oF tHE pOoR" whenever gas prices go up, even though this will result in the same poor people needing to buy expensive AC, run expensive AC and then probably relocate as fires and floods consume their homes.
Almost everyone is better off with $15/gal gas than having their homes destroyed by fire and flood, but ... my SUV!
Also, the same people that want government mandated gas prices but not government mandated medical treatment and medicine prices... because ... supply side Jesus doesn't apply to oil.. or something?
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u/yaosio 19d ago
Let's compromise and run the oil pipeline through your house.
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u/VicariousPanda 18d ago
Most people would happily take that payout.
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u/Save-itforlater 18d ago
https://www.minnesotansforline3.com/propertytaxes/
Just look at how much money they give for it. It's crazy.
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u/ApprehensivePaint657 18d ago
most people suck and are greedy and short sighted.
Bet if their house started on fire and burnt their neighborhood because of the pipeline they'd be the first to try to do something about it too.
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u/Save-itforlater 18d ago
They also conveniently leave out the 10's of millions they pay in taxes every year. With out the oil pipeline revenue the counties that benefit from it will go bankrupt.
Also hard cringe at the fact that it's almost all white people at the rally. The majority of the tribe they claim to represent are in support of the pipeline.
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u/Ru5ty_Shackl3f0rd 19d ago
When you look at the description of this subreddit and compare it to this video you realize this video doesn't belong here....... That being said this is one of the most peaceful protests i've seen in a LONG time. Good on them!!
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u/Old_Leg_1679 18d ago
For fuck's sake, these people have lost just about everything over the course of the last few centuries. Not building a pipeline on their land and not poisoning their water is literally the least we can do.
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u/imabeast9000 19d ago
Where is all the outrage about all those people gathered together with few masks in sight during a pandemic?
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u/Leading_Lake6445 19d ago
The USA doesn’t give a shit about you. The USA doesn’t give a shit about the planet. The USA will see the world in flames before a billionaire loses a dollar.
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u/Cruucio___ 18d ago
Fucking selfish bastards don't give a shit about the future they know they won't be around to see it so who cares right? Also, it's funny most of these people are probably conservative religious people. Do they think God will reward them for being selfish pricks? Pisses me off
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u/LivingGhost371 19d ago
A bunch of people that would rather have the oil move in freight trains, that leak and occasionally derail and destroy a town.
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u/[deleted] 18d ago edited 4d ago
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u/3seconds2live 16d ago
Have an oil pipeline directly under my 60 acres. I want the to replace it sooner than later. Best part about a new line is the welding technology and pipeline corrosion mitigation is far better than it used to be. And when they dig up the old one to put in the new one they are obligated to make my marsh land the same as before they dug it up. I'd happily have a new line replace the old in my backyard. Its been there 30 years without incident but I'd like it replaced before it has one. Like replacing your roof before the water pours through the hole that a storm made. Just sound logic really.
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u/thatswhatshesaidxx 18d ago
that leak and occasionally derail and destroy a town
...as oppose to pipelines which are foolproof?
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u/Way_Unable 18d ago
Which in turn can destroy an ecosystem which is a lot harder to fix than a Human built town. I say we just keep training it and let companies eat the costs and Green taxes on the gases.
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u/Bathroom-Afraid 19d ago
Watch them take those fences down when the antimaskers show up later this week.
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u/zoinks 19d ago
I hate the safest, most cost effective way to transport the single good most responsible for the vast increase in wealth and prosperity across the globe for the past century.
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u/12FAA51 19d ago
Maybe it's time to stop transporting the most potent way to ruin the ecosystem
vast increase in wealth and prosperity across the globe for the past century
and will take away wealth and prosperity across the globe for the next century
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u/zoinks 19d ago
Sounds good. Does the "Be the change you want to see in the world" motto still hold true? Or do you want to keep using your dirty oil because everyone else is too?
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u/12FAA51 19d ago
what the fuck are you talking about?
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u/zoinks 19d ago
I'm asking if you've stopped using the most potent way to ruin the ecosystem in your life.
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u/12FAA51 19d ago
What are my choices?
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u/zoinks 19d ago
Well the clear choice is to stop using the most potent way to ruin the ecosystem.
You can't do this yourself, but you're arguing the entire world should stop it?
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u/12FAA51 19d ago
I'm asking you, what are you talking about? What am I choosing to do?
If the bus I catch uses diesel, I don't really have a choice in dictating what type of bus transit agencies use, do I?
It's almost like you're in bad faith conflating systemic choices versus individual choices.
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u/zoinks 19d ago
You have a choice to ride a bus or not.
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u/12FAA51 19d ago
What's another reasonable alternative?
How does an individual not riding the bus change fuel consumption?
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u/Way_Unable 18d ago
Personal change only goes so far. No pipelines and more green alternatives. Stop being a dick.
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u/zoinks 18d ago
So you're still going to use oil, but you demand that it is transported in a costly and environmentally damaging way.
Cool man, very ethical of you.
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u/Way_Unable 18d ago
I demand companies take the full cost and risk. Companies need incentive to improve otherwise they cut Costs everywhere they can making accidents more likely because the fallout is cheaper than upkeep over 100 years.
Without deep regulation I've learned Companies just shit all over the consumer.
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u/zoinks 18d ago
Ok, and should we force companies to use less effective, more environmentally damaging technology, or should we let them use the best, safest technology? All while holding them accountable of course
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u/Way_Unable 18d ago
Issue is Pipe lines are too risky to use. We should be swaying away from fossil fuels. You don't have to agree change should come at the cost of companies entirely but, they did the damage might as well get some money back for my soon to be dead planet.
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u/[deleted] 19d ago
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u/Vanilla_Mike 19d ago
These guy’s oil pipeline had the largest spill ever in the 70s and released 1.7 million gallons of oil into the river. Enbridge “thought their alarms were wrong” and didnt do anything for days until the state found the oil spill.
They were forced to start paying for the spill in the 2010s. Cost closing in at 1.5 billion of which they’ll pay maybe 1/5th.
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u/zoinks 19d ago
You can only speak of risks and downsides with relation to other oil transportation technologies. It's not like if this pipeline isn't built, that the oil will just remain in the ground instead. It will just be transported on trains and trucks, both of which are costlier, intrinsically more polluting, and leak/spill oil at a higher rate than pipelines.
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u/ProfBunimo 19d ago
So you're saying that it's dangerous to leave the oil in the ground where it has been for millions of years? Sounds pretty dumb.
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u/[deleted] 19d ago
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u/zoinks 19d ago
Keep reading and I literally tell you 2 sentences later.
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u/[deleted] 19d ago
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u/zoinks 19d ago
I'm not aware of any downsides of pipelines relative to trucks and trains, beyond the fact that certain protestors have latched onto pipelines as a symbolic cause and therefore the construction of them is much more difficult than re-using existing railways and highways to transport oil in a more dangerous, costly, and environmentally damaging manner.
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u/[deleted] 19d ago
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u/zoinks 19d ago
Nice selective quoting.
pipelines are a flawless technology with no downside
Wow, that wasn't my argument, but I must have really convinced you!
But really, keep reading, and I literally tell you a downside in the same sentence. And I never said that pipelines don't have flaws and downsides. I said that you need to consider the flaws and downsides of the alternatives before you can say what is the best technology to achieve the goal.
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u/PatrioticSnowflake00 19d ago
Ur ignorant.
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u/zoinks 19d ago
I'm actually quite knowledgeable of Ur and other Sumerian city-states. But I don't know how that is relevant since we are on r/PublicFreakout and not r/History
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u/REDDITIZEVIL_ 19d ago
Oooo... too capitalist for this place. They dont think much further than surface level feelings here.
Oil = nazi
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u/DoubleOk5783 19d ago
This is something Americans should fight for and stand behind the natives, keep messing around they will have the earth sprits f**k shit up.
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u/theRealEnchilada 19d ago
Am I correct in thinking that a pipeline is good because it creates cheaper oil and reduces oil truck driving, but that it should just not cross native land?
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u/AustinPowersszzz 19d ago
They all drove there in cars probably
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u/Kreebish 18d ago
I'm going to use a metaphor here "I have sex but I don't rape or condone rapists."
In case you need this explained the people protesting want the crap height that leaks all over shut down and not expanded. That pipe goes through their land so unless you want it rerouted through yours you're being very hypocritical and using oil when you didn't have any of the oil pump through your land. And yes there's a environmental impact as well but at this point the people who are pushing the climate denial have been able to get folks to be saying that the ocean on fire is normal so... Yeah.
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u/AustinPowersszzz 18d ago
I just said that they probably drove there in cars. You must be new here. Keep your rape analogies to yourself.
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u/Kreebish 18d ago
No no you were trying to softball driving cars to being the same as installing a pipeline through people's native homes contaminating their water supply and adding a multitude of problems to indigenous peoples. I saw what you meant and sprung on it to an extreme so that you would see what I was talking about. You see it's like you were saying that because I breathe the air and trees make the oxygen then I am the same as a man who burns down the entire rainforest so I have no room to talk. Fuck that.
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u/skiesarelight 19d ago
Haven’t we already established the people in that city are protest happy and nutty as fruitcakes?
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u/[deleted] 19d ago
[removed]
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u/neo_nao1101 18d ago
Are white people not allowed to show support for this cause? There’s nothing wrong with it.
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u/HonorTomOfFinland 19d ago
All power to them for protesting, but the teepees and drums are cringey as all hell.
That life doesn't exist anymore, these people lead a typical American lifestyle. This is practically auto-cultural appropriation, or cosplay.
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u/neo_nao1101 18d ago
Don’t disrespect their culture, that’s uncalled for
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u/HonorTomOfFinland 18d ago
You mean their middle class American consumer culture?
These people have more of a connection to chocolate on valentine's day than they do anything remotely Native
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u/alpha_dk 18d ago
Clearly you're not Minnesotan. Many respect and live their history, here.
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u/HonorTomOfFinland 18d ago
They live in teepees, yeah?
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u/Stopmadness99 17d ago
I'm not Native but work for a Tribe in Minnesota. Yes, some still use teepees for special occasions or to promote their long culture. Sweatlodges also still exist.
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u/alpha_dk 18d ago
Clearly that's what it takes, ya?
Just like how all Finnish people are obligated to live in longhouses and eat pickled herring or whatever bullshit?
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u/chauncey223 19d ago
I need gas and I need it cheap. Build it.
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u/allisgray 18d ago
Gotta love companies who pay OT to local piggies so they can beat up the native population…
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u/contrapasso_ 18d ago
*Some grey haired white dude dancing a little jig in the foreground*
Very powerful...
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