r/TooAfraidToAsk Apr 11 '22

What's with all these men vs women questions? Meta

38 Upvotes

22

u/[deleted] Apr 11 '22

[deleted]

4

u/VashtheGoofball Apr 12 '22

And most of it is men posting the questions.

8

u/SayFuzzyPickles42 Apr 11 '22

Generally speaking, harmony between the sexes is way shittier and further behind than it should be considering how far we've otherwise come as a species.

4

u/Babbledoodle Apr 12 '22

Because I'm 14 and this is 12

But a lot of people dont have a clue when it comes to interpersonal relationships or its people that dont realize that there are more similarities between the sexes than differences, and that a lot of the variety comes on a person to person basis

16

u/tenamonth Apr 11 '22

I guess they’re the type of questions that people would otherwise be…

…too afraid to ask

22

u/idwtumrnitwai Apr 11 '22

I think some incels have come into the sub to disparage women under the guise of asking questions. I can't prove it but I've noticed a few different posts and they all seem to follow the trend of asking a question that then kinda devolves into being anti women. There's the post where the person asks why women refuse men who hit on them so rudely, theres comments just saying they're bitches, etc. There's the one where a man and a woman both meet at a bar, are both really drunk, and both regret it the next morning. Most of the comments I saw said it was both people's fault, but then it devolved into being anti woman and how men don't actually have privilege. Then another one where it says that the advice given to men is improve themselves, and for women to be themselves, and the post again devolved into insulting women. So I can't prove its happening, but given the recent posts all being asked in a way with plausible deniability, and the comments devolving in such a way that there's insults to women being commented. I think incels have decided to come in to ask these questions to further an anti woman narrative.

2

u/[deleted] Apr 12 '22

What you say is true but there’s also plenty of female groups that disparage men. Some people are just shitty and complainers and that’s unisex

1

u/idwtumrnitwai Apr 12 '22

Never said anything to the contrary, but the group I've noticed currently is comprised of people spreading misogynistic talking points, that's why I'm talking about them.

1

u/idwtumrnitwai Apr 12 '22

Never said anything to the contrary, but the group I've noticed currently is comprised of people spreading misogynistic talking points, that's why I'm talking about them.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 13 '22

No you didn’t say anything to the contrary but you didn’t tell the whole story and that’s the problem.

1

u/idwtumrnitwai Apr 13 '22

Thats not even accurate, there are misogynistic comments being made on posts in this sub. It would be stupid to call out misandry that hasn't happened in the comments, just because there are some groups that are misandrists, doesn't mean they're applicable here.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 13 '22

You being ignorant to women hating on men doesn’t mean it’s not occurring all over the place. Both are a problem but women also have more specific echo chambers to go voice their problems with men

1

u/[deleted] Apr 13 '22

Just because you’re personally not seeing, that doesn’t mean it’s not commonly happening. Both are problems but women also have many more options for echo chambers to voice their concerns to other women

1

u/idwtumrnitwai Apr 13 '22

No, to me it seems like you're doing is a whataboutism, trying to switch the narrative back away from the problem at hand, to a different problem that isn't the one that is occurring. If you're seeing these problems occur in the posts, then comment. But don't make a whataboutism post to try to draw attention away from the misogynistic comments that are happening in the posts I've commented on.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 13 '22

You’re doing exactly what your describe but only towards men because women can’t do anything wrong from your perceptive. The point is it’s wrong across the board and there’s really no reason to bring up male or female because everyone is doing it. You can deny it all you want but you’re just as much of the problem

1

u/idwtumrnitwai Apr 13 '22

Lmao holy shit what a stupid thing to comment, I've acknowledged that women do it too, that it's wrong when everyone does it, and addressed that the reason I'm addressing male incels spreading misogynistic shit in these posts, is because it's what I've seen happening on multiple posts in this subreddit. What you're doing is trying to distract from what is happening by giving a whataboutism that isn't relevant to what I'm commenting, because the situation you're describing isn't happening on the post I've commented on. Like Jesus fuck did you even try to make your comment make sense before hitting post?

1

u/[deleted] Apr 13 '22

No you really haven’t because you’ve been denying what I said from the very beginning when I said everyone does this. It may be more or less common on certain subreddits but if you bother to look at the whole picture you can see im right. One subreddit doesn’t tell the entire picture and criticize bad habits of women doesn’t make you an incel.

You just have a very biased and toxic attitude towards the situation.

→ More replies

2

u/mepscribbles Apr 20 '22

I’m getting the same vibe

7

u/Misplaced-psu Apr 11 '22

I agree. It became so uncomfortable I had to unfollow the sub. It seems intentional.

1

u/idwtumrnitwai Apr 11 '22

I'm pretty sure it is, I think they have a few who make posts, some that comment to try to control the direction the comments section makes. I has some dude comment not that long ago saying I was trying to gaslight the OP by questioning what they were asserting.

12

u/Diamond-Is-Not-Crash Apr 11 '22

No idea, but most of the time they stem from ignorance, or conditioning from antiquated gender norms i.e. questions on dating, anatomy, sex, harassment etc. Which is fine since it's the purpose of this sub to answer questions people would be too afraid to ask in meatspace.

But there are times when questions are asked in bad faith meant to use the veil of ignorance to peddle misogyny, transphobia, homophobia and racism. I've lost count on the number of posts and comments I've read on here that subtlety (or overtly in some cases) try to indicate that men are the real victims of sexual assault/harssment, and oppression, while downplaying sexual violence and misogyny toward women, and implying that they are the privileged gender.

They somehow cannot reconcile that both men and women can both suffer from sexual harassment and violence without going "WHAT ABOUT MEN" and making women into pantomime villains orchestrating and benefiting from male suffering.

But yeah there's definitely a couple bad actors out here trying to stir shit and be misogynistic. They can go eat shit I guess.

7

u/Objective-Ad-4155 Apr 12 '22

I'd like to reconcile that bit about "they somehow cannot reconcile..."

The social climate that produces the case that someone gets despised for asking "what about men" is also the answer as to why someone (somemany) would bother to ask it. Plus, there's very little about the dialogue from women which lends itself the the notion "we're all in this together against the bad apples of both genders". In fact, I see often that a woman comments how a man wronged her when the topic was pretty much the opposite just to throw in to the contrary so it's very much out of place and nobody jumps on her about throwing out what is basically "what about women".

Incels tend to be logically minded, isolated, and reeling from trauma inflicted by women that they will be shamed for expressing while being force fed women's gripes about men. Not to be rude but it always seemed kinda obvious to me why these situations play out like this. I agree with all the rest of your point though. And fuck the people acting with malice. But honestly, can you not see the difference between how these camps get reacted to? I'd wager a lot of money we would find a high population of autistics among the incels, especially given their stance to double standards. My heart really goes out to them to be honest.

Ps I chuckled at "meatspace" but I totally get it.

2

u/Diamond-Is-Not-Crash Apr 12 '22

Since you seem to be genuine and a decent person, the reason I'd say incels get a different response from the women you described is because incels entire identity revolves around hate, directed at both themselves and those they are attracted to, women. While it is sad to hate oneself and be a doomer to the extent an incel is, their "ideology" reinforced by old misogynistic values and beliefs causes real world harm and violence directed at women and others (see all those (mass) murders committed and cheered on by incels) . It's also why I'm hesitant to label the femcels on FDS "as bad as incels" despite holding nasty opinions about men, because it diminishes the harm and danger (murder, assault, rape) posed by incels. While femcels are toxic and unpleasant I've yet to see a thread on FDS demanding the murder and rape of men, and facilitating stochastic terrorism.

Incels tend to be logically minded, isolated, and reeling from trauma inflicted by women that they will be shamed for expressing while being force fed women's gripes about men.

I also disagree about incels being logically minded, becauss when presented with arguments about the source of their problems (i.e. feelings of (male) disposability, being unable to emotionally fully express yourself, feeling like a predator and being unable to approach women) being old patriarchal beliefs and traditions, instead of choosing to help change these beliefs (checkout r/MensLib) they blame all women. Now if you have a traumatic experience from a woman (i.e. sexual assualt and harassment) then you should be listened to because no one deserves that, and everyone regardless of their gender should have their voices and experiences heard. It is appalling how male victims of sexual violence and harassment are invalidated by our society because "men want it all the time, so they can't be assaulted or harassed", and I say that as a male survivor of sexual assault.

That was a long preamble but to get to the crux of the matter is thay for decades if not centuries, women have been assaulted, harassed, raped and murdered by men because of their gender, and have been ignored and/or silenced on the topic of thid misogynistic gender-based oppression. Even to this day, living as a woman means constant vigilance and trying to protect yourself against violence and harassment from men. The inverse of this oppression, misandry doesn't really exist to the degree as it does to women, which isn't to say it doesn't matter or doesn't happen because it 100% does, and we should listen to male victims of such, all the time. But to try and equate the two and say "well actually men and women have suffered gender based violence and discrimination equally" is a bit disingenuous. Hence why it's more acceptable for women to be able to vent about gender based discrimination then it is for men, as not really been allowed to publicly discuss these issues in the past (I mean look how long it too for something like the MeToo movement to happen and be taken seriously).

This isn't to say men shouldn't talk about gender issues and be silent, because men are people just like women are, therefore we should be able to discuss our experiences with sexual assault, harassment and bad/unhealthy gender expectations just like women do. However, where I draw the line is taking anecdotal mistreatment from women, and then turning around and blaming all women for your pain, and essentially becoming a bigot because some people didn't listen to you. That is not ok. (This isn't directed at you OP). It's a tragedy that men with pain are ignored on these issues but that doesn't make taking it out on everyone ok or acceptable. What they do need is acknowledgement and to be listened to, not to be thrown into a doomerist incel echo chamber and told that "women are the problem" and that you will never find love because of how you look, act and your experiences. That shit is whack.

1

u/argo2708 Apr 12 '22 edited Apr 12 '22

misandry doesn't really exist to the degree as it does to women,

Yes it does. Men are so severely abused that suicide is the leading cause of death in men under fifty. Not covid. Not cancer. Suicide. And the biggest reason for that is they're not allowed to talk about being abused without being called filthy incels, blamed for their own problems and told to shut up because women have it worse.

2

u/Diamond-Is-Not-Crash Apr 12 '22

Ok cool. Have you thought about why it exists? Who is abusing men and why? What's causing it and why are men committing suicide? And why they aren't seeking help or reaching out to people to others to talk about issues?

It's quite disingenuous to say misandry exists to the same degree as misogyny though. Have men been barred from voting, work, education, getting divorced, or even having any agency on the grounds of being men? Or the sheer volume of sexual harassment and violence women face from men. Come on, I'm not saying misandry doesn't exist or doesn't happen but you can't seriously suggest it's on the same scale as misogyny both currently and historically.

And the biggest train for that is they're not allowed to talk about being abused without being called filthy incels, blamed for their own problems and told to shut up because women have it worse

I didn't say that men can't or shouldn't talk about this, I even linked a sub in my previous post for a healthy place to discuss gender-based suffering men experience and men's issues in general. Like I said before it's wrong to silence men from discussing these topics. With that said it's one thing to discuss men's pain from trying to live up to horrible gender expectations, it's another thing to only discuss this when women talk about their experiences with misogyny, or blame women for not being able to talk about it, or for being responsible for misandry.

If you want to solve these issues that men face today you have to address the root of the problem. Outdated, harmful patriarchal gender roles and expectations. It's not something that can be solved overnight but I think working with both men and women we can overcome this and live free of gender expectations. Men can exist how they want without pressure to be/look/act a certain way from society.

0

u/argo2708 Apr 12 '22

Have you thought about why it exists? Who is abusing men and why? What's causing it and why are men committing suicide? And why they aren't seeking help or reaching out to people to others to talk about issues?

There isn't a single cause. Men are not a monolith.

Have men been barred from voting, work, education, getting divorced, or even having any agency on the grounds of being men?

Yes of course they have. They're not now and neither are women, but they have been in the past.

If you want to solve these issues that men face today you have to address the root of the problem. Outdated, harmful patriarchal gender roles and expectations.

The problem is that people like you don't want to address the problem. Because you already have "the answer". And no one else is allowed to give their answer, they have to accept your answer. You're not even interested in what's actually happening to them.

2

u/Diamond-Is-Not-Crash Apr 12 '22

There isn't a single cause. Men are not a monolith.

Quite convenient you say men are in pain, yet don't give a single cause of said possible source of it. I mean if it's so prevalent and pervasive then you could surely provide some sources apart from "men are in pain, because they're committing suicide". It's bringing up a problem without even suggesting a solution. At least offer a suggestion, marginalised groups have been fighting for their rights for generations, identifying key issues and taking political action. You just seem to sort of whine, and not have any goal to fix anything.

Yes of course they have. They're not now and neither are women, but they have been in the past.

Please tell me a time and place where men have been barred from these institutions and discriminated against on the grounds of being men? Not being a man and discriminated against for another issue such as poverty, religion, sexual orientation, disability or race, but for being a man.

The problem is that people like you don't want to address the problem. Because you already have "the answer". And no one else is allowed to give their answer, they have to accept your answer. You're not even interested in what's actually happening to them

Please tell me an answer then, because you seem to be evading any sort of action or response by saying "well you wouldn't listen anyway". It's rich for you to say I have no interest in what's happening to men (despite being a man myself) when you haven't even offered any potential action to take apart from stating vague comments like "men are in pain" and "you don't care and you don't listen". Come you're better then this mate.

0

u/argo2708 Apr 12 '22

I am better but you're not.

Your "ideas" are nothing more than a loud noise made out of ideas you copy from other people. I'd bet you don't have a single original idea about any of this, God knows the ludicrous patriarchy and misogyny theory you parrot aren't yours. It's boring and you're not worth talking to about this.

5

u/Narwhalbaconguy Apr 11 '22

They’re… drumroll

Too afraid to ask.

4

u/Wtflol1233 Apr 11 '22

The current social media landscape where the average guy is demonized by his female equivalent. And many zoomer males whose social skills have been broken by the 2020 lockdown see this and get mad.

Even though IRL, if your a guy and you put yourself out there you'll be able to find a good girl.

2

u/jikgftujiamalurker Apr 11 '22

Who is hotter in panties. Men or women?

2

u/MrPr0pagandalf Apr 11 '22

We are organising a huge fighting event between the 2 genders and we need to find out their weaknesses before the fighting starts.

1

u/rage29318 Apr 11 '22

I don't know, you should ask a woman.

-1

u/ripped_ravenclaw Apr 11 '22

A few days ago, some judge couldn’t define what a woman was. Probably what started it? I was taught women for the most part have an XX chromosome in 5th grade so idk

1

u/AncientFollowing3019 Apr 12 '22

‘For the most part’ isn’t really a very good definition is it? Especially legally.

1

u/foundlinx Apr 12 '22

I believe there is a lot of frustration among men and women both, because there is a new culture of "do what you want for you" with out accountability. As a result there is a lot of confusion and lack of communication among people. The division is becoming aparent.

1

u/copperdomebodhi Apr 12 '22

Everyone should read Delusions of Gender by Cordelia Fine. It breaks down how little reason there is to believe any of the Mars & Venus, "Guys are like this but women are like that," talk.

This might sound crazy - f'rinstance, you might have heard that men are more violent than women. That's true but only by a matter of degree. Knowing someone got violent doesn't tell you whether they are male or female. The author says, researchers have only found a few behaviors that reliably distinguish men from women. They're all things like, "time spent viewing pornography," or, "time spent applying make-up."

-2

u/Pretend_Low_8491 Apr 11 '22

I personally haven't seen any

1

u/Narwhalbaconguy Apr 11 '22

Sort by hot and they’ll all come up

-1

u/Gremlin95x Apr 12 '22

Because men are straightforward and simple, women like to play games and make you guess.

0

u/kozy8805 Apr 12 '22

Because trolls know the right type of trigger questions to ask.