r/TooAfraidToAsk Jun 17 '22

Why does the USA regularely talk about systematic racism when non-whites get higher sentences than whites, but never about systematic sexism when men get higher sentences than women? Meta

I once even read that there is a bigger "sexism gap" than "racism gap", meaning that the difference/discrimination between the genders is higher than the differences between races/ethnics.

4 Upvotes

8

u/DexterousStyles Jun 17 '22

I think we are at a point where people have realised the altruism is actually just self serving and everyone has screeched so long, so loud, for so many years

Finally? No one cares.

5

u/[deleted] Jun 17 '22

Because society puts women on a pedal stool

6

u/Far-Phrase-4690 Jun 17 '22

Women getting shorter sentences is patriarchal, it’s misogyny that benefits women. As woman are deemed inferior and unable to handle the same sentences as men

6

u/Wingsnake Jun 17 '22

Then I wonder why feminists don't fight for longer sentences for women, as they should be deemed equal and not inferior.

9

u/the-hb Jun 17 '22

I’m a feminist and that’s absolutely what I fight for. Especially in statutory rape cases, I think it’s disgusting that women can get off with little to no time.

2

u/Farscape_rocked Jun 17 '22

I suspect there's a lot of overlap between feminists and people who think the American prison system is deranged.

7

u/Far-Phrase-4690 Jun 17 '22

I don’t know everything that feminists fight for, but it makes no sense to fight for longer sentences when they can fight for shorter sentences for all people (which I assume is what they do)

2

u/Wingsnake Jun 17 '22

Ok that true. Generally shorter sentences are a good thing and rather better help them. Though there are crimes that should have longer ones. For example rape is IMHO pretty laughable sentenced here in Switzerland.

-4

u/EvilCeleryStick Jun 17 '22

Is it? Is it over a year? Imagine being locked in a cell for a year. A year is a fucking long ass time.

2

u/Mind-Individual Jun 17 '22

So you want the race/gender affected by the systematic ism to fight for longer sentences/punishment on their behalf as if they were responsible for creating the systematic ism?

1

u/Wingsnake Jun 17 '22

Nah, my comment was more a bit provocative. I support shorter sentences in general (for certain crimes, child molesters or rapists can rot in jail for example). Obviously no one fight for stuff that doesn't benefits them or even brings them at a disadvantage.

0

u/shitsu13master Jun 17 '22

Why would people specifically fight for something that would make their lives worse?

There are precious few advantages to being a woman already as it is and you think women would focus on the three things where they actually get a benefit? How crazy are you sounding?

1

u/TripleR_Official Jun 19 '22

Uh, oh really? No it's not, its because society deems men as more expendable than women (which is why men are forced to fight in military)

2

u/Far-Phrase-4690 Jun 19 '22 edited Jun 19 '22

Read up on who made the laws that women aren’t drafted and why, then get back to me please.

1

u/TripleR_Official Jun 19 '22

I mean the only excuse I see for not drafting women is because women are physically weaker than men. It seems somewhat dumb considering most of the army is basically just logistics at this point, not actual fighting. But anyways, there is no patriarchy in the West only an oligarchy.

6

u/jackfaire Jun 17 '22

Because the sexism there is against women. They get the shorter sentences because they can't handle the sentences men could. Sure it's the one example of sexism helping them but it's not a case of men getting long sentences because "Ha ha screw men" but rather "awww poor woman"

1

u/Alternative-Ear-8514 Jun 17 '22

It’s like how people bring up Amber heards kids but no one brought up depps

1

u/TripleR_Official Jun 19 '22

"Sexism" seems suspiciously helpful of women in many other ways. Most don't have expectations of working, get all the money in divorce, etc. By your argument "Racism" also has benefits for minorities??

2

u/jackfaire Jun 19 '22

No by my argument the systems we set up to fuck over women in the past are starting to bite us in the ass now and rather than accept the blame and seek to change the laws to more fair we want to whine and complain that we've been hoisted by our own petard.

When we wrote the laws to "benefit" women as you put it they weren't allowed bank accounts, jobs etc because we discouraged such things. Even custody was because many men didn't want to be stuck with children. Divorce was also very hard to get if the woman wanted it.

That money from the man was all she'd get to put a roof over her head and continue to raise his children. If she was lucky she could get some crap job no man wanted to do.

We set it up that way so that a man could maintain his reputation as a good father.

None of the laws we designed in the name of racism were ever designed in such a way as to benefit minorities and unlike our wives we had no interest in doing so. So no the racist laws do not benefit them.

The reason we as men now get screwed isn't becuase women swept in and created those laws that "seem" to favor them but really reduce them to an underpaid nanny it's because when divorce became legal for them to initiates, when they started getting jobs, we still kept trying to force old gender roles.

Now we want our kids. Now our ex-wives have jobs of their own, bank accounts and autonomy.

We whine and complain as if they wrote the very laws we insisted they obey for so many years and call it misandry because haven't changed them yet despite still holding most of the power. Almost like an older generation of men still remembers that time fondly and doesn't give a shit what the younger generation of men want. Welcome to misogyny.

5

u/TimeWastin21 Jun 17 '22

Love to see some evidence of this. Same crime, same criminal history, same state. Thanks. Feminists regularly fight for justice reform, by the way.

2

u/TromMF Jun 17 '22

I assume you could say that it's just nit as trendy

1

u/hitometootoo Jun 17 '22

People talk about sex differences all the time. How men get higher wages, more sports scholarships, more access to sexual treatments being covered under insurance, etc. That conversation regularly happens, you might have not noticed those talks though.

Though they get a bad rep, look into feminist and equal sex platforms. You'll see a lot more talks about such things.

5

u/[deleted] Jun 17 '22

look into feminist

I've seen literally no feminist pleading for lower sentencing for men. I have seen them pleading to never put women into prison though.

0

u/shitsu13master Jun 17 '22

Yeah because feminists fighting for a better life for themselves are supposed to fight for men now, too. That's literal sexism in action.

It's a man's world. If men want shorter sentences they could just make shorter sentences for themselves. But trust them to blame women fighting for themselves for not also fighting for men.

Gee, I wonder why gay people don't also fight for straight people. Why do poor people not also fight for rich people?

-2

u/[deleted] Jun 17 '22

It's a man's world.

It's not. Women have the right to vote as well.

Also, if men try to fight for themselves they get scolded by both men and women.

2

u/shitsu13master Jun 17 '22

So you think it magically stopped being a man's world when women got the vote?? That's a rather naive thing to say.

At what point did men get scolded for fighting for themselves? Just saying shit like this doesn't make it true, you know.

-2

u/[deleted] Jun 17 '22

Just saying shit like this doesn't make it true, you know.

Have you checked out r/mensrights and r/againstmensrights?

That's a rather naive thing to say.

Well, why don't they vote men out then? Even in my political party, we want our electoral list to be 50/50 but it's a real challenge to get women to make themselves. electable. Even with all our encouragement and support. They have every opportunity to take control.

-1

u/shitsu13master Jun 17 '22

Haha because men won't let enough women in for that to become possible. I hope you're just young and inexperienced and not a fully fledged grown up with these ideas.

Just because idiots exist who are against men's rights doesn't mean this is true for the population at large or even true for most women's advocates / feminists. That's just a radical minority who scream very loud

1

u/TitanFang92 Jun 17 '22

When you pretend youre about equality people generally want to hold you to that.

But we know feminism isnt about equality.

1

u/shitsu13master Jun 17 '22

Sure, we want equality and we have 1000 places to work on to make it happen but trust men to want to focus on the 2 things where odds are against them.

Honestly, it's not like it doesn't matter but there's a mountain of inequality to be dealt with, why would women go ahead and solve inequality in places that aren't already a dumpster fire for them??

It's like this whole portion of the city is on fire but you're out here, whining that nobody is paying attention to your particular cottage on top of that hill. We will get to it. When the fire in town is put out. If you want your fire out, get your own water, get your own bucket, get cracking. Nobody is stopping you.

If you're already not prepared to help put the fire out in town at the very least you could quit your dumb, counterproductive whataboutism round about now.

0

u/TitanFang92 Jun 17 '22

Idc what you do. Just stop pretending youre fighting for equality and get some new arguments.

1

u/shitsu13master Jun 17 '22

Yeah I just made a bunch of solid arguments which you lazily deflected by being vague. I guess my points stand and you... you aren't really making any point at all

0

u/TripleR_Official Jun 19 '22

It's not a man's world. It's a rich person's world. Sure, many of them happen to be men, but most of the homeless/drugged up people on the street and locked up are also men.

2

u/shitsu13master Jun 20 '22

It's still a man's world. That's an established fact, not an opinion. The patriarchy isn't only bad for women, it's also bad for men as you've pointed out with homelessness.

The fact that it's men who have the male privilege doesn't stop them from also being hit harder when they aren't able to take advantage of said privilege.

One doesn't mean the other isn't also true.

1

u/Wingsnake Jun 17 '22

Yeah but you are talking about advantages of men (discrimination of women) but I am talking about discrimination of men.

And I did. At least here in Switzerland not a single feminist platform (not even the official state bureau for gender equality) talks about male discrimination. Which honestly I am not sure is sad or ironic or...

5

u/shitsu13master Jun 17 '22

It's like this: Imagine you have a mountain of Alpenmilchschokolade that you need to move from A to B on the one hand (women) and a palette of chocolate (men).

Sure, the palette needs to be moved at some point but obviously you're going to focus on the mountain while it's still a mountain because the difference in size is so huge.

Apart from the fact that making the world a more equal place for women automatically makes it a more equal place for men. For instance a couple earning equal wages will be having a much easier time than if the guy has to carry the main part of the financial burden.

If you give men dad days with their kids it's not just the women who benefit because now they can go back to work and pursue a career, it's obviously also the dads who get to bond with their children.

1

u/Wingsnake Jun 17 '22

I get what you are saying and I do agree. That is sometimes not the case though, like here in Switzerland for example. We have several laws that discriminate men, not a single one that discriminate women. Now if we look at these laws, for example widow/widower rent, which is harder to get as a man. It is simply not talked about because it doesn't have an affect on women. Military duty....only men have to go. And in the case like me, who wasn't allowed to join because of health reasons, have now to pay an additional "penis tax" (in my case even, I have to pay more tax AND have to do civil duty/protection). It is simply not a problem, because again, who cares when it discriminates men.

It is a bit ironic to be for gender equality (not talking about you) but only care about one side of the coin. Which is sadly what I see and experience first hand here in Switzerland.

Also, given your use of Alpenmilkschokolade, I assume you are from the DACH region.

0

u/shitsu13master Jun 17 '22

Military service is a thing that everyone should have to do. In case of war all people should know what to do and be able to handle a weapon. So I would say that it's still misogyny to assume women can't handle military service and less discrimination against men. They can do the service in Israel just fine so just vote it in and problem solved. Most of your politicians are men so just have them change that. Men have the power. Make it happen. It's wild to accuse women's rights activists of being one-sided when you are sitting there with the power in your hands to change things. Why are you waiting around for the less powerful group to lobby in your favour?

And you've got a penis tax you say - but you're also making more money than vaginas. So really there is a heavy penalty for walking the earth with a vagina and your penis tax doesn't even make up any considerable portion of it. But trust men to impose a penis tax instead of just making things equal. Trust men to later complain about it, to women no less, on "how unfair it is".

Again, you've got the power. Change it.

1

u/Wingsnake Jun 17 '22

Such law changes go through votes from people (direct democracy). With slightly more women than men, I don't see this coming through.

Also, my gf makes more money than me. I will tell her to stop this, because she has a vagina. SMH, can't believe it.

Though, you are right, we have some power and it should be time that men (and women) stand up for men.

1

u/shitsu13master Jun 17 '22

Yeah see, it's not so simple as 1-2-3 so if you want something why do you expect other people to campaign for it? Why do you berate them for standing up for themselves and not also for what you care about? If you care about the penis tax so much, guess what buddy, do something about it. Wanna catch a free ride on women's tailcoats again? Because women have just come out of domestic servitude, let's have them do whateverwe want to achieve on our behalf? The audacity of some people is seriously staggering SMH

So your gf makes more than you do, congratulations to her. Just because things have gotten better for women doesn't mean equality has been achieved.

2

u/hitometootoo Jun 17 '22

You're talking of disadvantages to men, but my examples are showing that women are at a disadvantage in many areas (like women getting lower wages than men).

Both groups have disadvantages and advantages that isn't always going to be equal in all regards. People have been discussing this for a very long time. Hell, women not being able to vote in America wasn't that long ago or companies allowing men to take time off for paternity leave which is a very recent change in business.

Both are dealing with this.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 17 '22

Because that would upset the feminist screechers

6

u/jackfaire Jun 17 '22

Be nice if that was true. It's actually because men didn't think women could handle longer sentences when setting the laws and it can be harder to convict women because "aww I'm sure this little lady couldn't do a thing like that" It's just one of the few cases where men being sexist towards women helps them.

1

u/UmdAvatarFan Jun 19 '22

Woman judges also give more time to men then woman.

Is that not misandrist

2

u/jackfaire Jun 19 '22

If the sentences are then longer than other men for the same crimes in front of male judges but they won't. be. What will be the case is that due to the same misogynistic rules in our legal system the women got lesser sentences. Rephrasing it to avoid fixing the issue does nothing.

1

u/Grinisti Jun 17 '22

Because there's been an over correction when it comes to those things but the view is that white men deserve it... Because hypocrisy is very present in today's society.

1

u/arealporcupine Jun 17 '22

Because there are ten times more men in prison than women, so men of color receiving longer sentences than white men is discussed on a much larger-scale than the length of women's sentences

1

u/Top_Duck8146 Jun 17 '22

My girl loves watching those murder shows on ID and the sentences for women VS. men for the same crime is staggering. I’ve seen women murder their husbands and get 10 years (out in 6 for good behavior), then guys with attempted murder getting 40 years

0

u/ChicagoIndependent Jun 17 '22

Why is the US always blamed for things like this? Is this like a demoralization campaign?

Things like this has been going on in many other countries not only the US.

3

u/chrisman1409 Jun 17 '22

Of course “Chicagoindependant” defends the us

1

u/[deleted] Jun 17 '22

[deleted]

1

u/chrisman1409 Jun 17 '22

I didn’t say you were from the us I pointed out your username. Also define triggered

1

u/so19anarchist Jun 17 '22

The US isn't being "blamed" for it. OP is asking why the US talks about one but not the other.

Is this like a demoralization campaign?

LOL what? Talk about victim complex.

1

u/ChicagoIndependent Jun 17 '22

I'm saying a lot of these complaints focus about the US but it's happening in a lot of other countries as well.