r/UpliftingNews Aug 17 '22 Silver 2 Wholesome 1

New California law now mandates that the school day start no earlier than 8 a.m. for middle graders and 8:30 a.m. for high schoolers.

https://www.npr.org/2022/07/09/1110667087/california-law-ensures-a-later-start-time-for-middle-and-high-school-students
48.4k Upvotes

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1.7k

u/vi_it_armis Aug 18 '22

Alabama here where bus pickup for 2nd graders is 6:20am...

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u/islingcars Aug 18 '22

that's completely fucked.

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u/RotSoiAmon Aug 18 '22

He did mention Alabama so shock shouldn’t really be an emotion

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u/nobd7987 Aug 18 '22

It’s a very rural state; in some places the school buses need to go 30 minutes to get to the house of one student, so you can imagine how long it might take to pick up dozens of students at different locations then make it to the school. We don’t really have one room school houses anymore, which would be the only alternative to centralizing schools and would be the only way to prevent these long bus routes.

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u/codece Aug 18 '22

Nah, it's just because they're forced to pick cotton with their nimble little fingers for an hour early in the morning each day before class, when it's cool.

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u/Blangebung Aug 18 '22

Well you need kids with small fingers to polish the inside of ammunition casings

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u/natureangel Aug 18 '22

This was also the time the bus picked me up for school in Pennsylvania. It was miserable.

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u/witchyturtle Aug 18 '22

Same for me, my bus would arrive at 6:20am, but that meant that I had to be at the bus stop before that time. I was always scared and paranoid while walking/running down the street to the bus stop because it's so early that the sky is still pitch black and the only lighting was from the street lamps that casted orange light.

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u/AutoThwart Aug 18 '22

I live in a rural part of PA and I watch these busses stop every 1/8 - 1/4 mile down very long roads and it's no wonder.

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u/ForSureNotLying Aug 18 '22

I understand early elementary school. I used to wake up, eat cereal, and watch cartoons before school.

HS age though, those are heavy sleep years. Teenagers need a lot sleep

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u/Confident-Area-6946 Aug 17 '22

Morning practice will still start at 5am sharp 🤝

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u/sharpshooter999 Aug 17 '22

Man am I glad my football coach didn't believe in morning practices or two-a-days. "In the morning, you guys are tired and don't pay attention for shit. So all we can do is run you. Then you're tired all day in school and your school work suffers. Then at afternoon practice you're really tired and drained physically AND mentally. We don't do two-a-days."

If we had a morning practice, it was once or twice a year because a majority of the team (22 guys on the whole team my senior year) would be gone for something else, we never had an afternoon one on those days

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u/[deleted] Aug 18 '22 edited Aug 22 '22

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u/sharpshooter999 Aug 18 '22

tough to find the balance of fun, character building, and trying to compete

We had 4 season ending injuries early on, so for most of the season is was 18 of us with 4 on the sidelines. Good thing we played 8 man, but that meant at practice literally everyone but 2 guys was always on the field. We stopped doing live tackling in practice just as an injury prevention. Us 6 seniors were fine, but the freshmen and sophomores really needed that experience. They couldn't tackle at all. Plus games were exhausting, because all 8 of us played offense and defense

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u/Painting_Agency Aug 18 '22

We had 4 season ending injuries early on

Is this normal for high school sports? Serious sports injuries often don't actually go away. Kids shouldn't graduate high school with their bodies already fucked up.

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u/sharpshooter999 Aug 18 '22

Well to be fair, one was a hernia and another was a broken leg that happened on weekends and not during a game or practice. Another was a broken hand during the first game and a severe ACL strain. The kid with hand had it all padded and wrapped and technically could play but it's hard to be a wide receiver with one hand and one padded stump. The other was a preventative measure, he didn't end up needing surgery and healed fine but the coaches wouldn't risk playing him

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u/TBabygirl24 Aug 18 '22

I played high-school soccer and club soccer that won state champ once year, and I saw 3 torn acls and I hyperextended my knee once all between between ages 13 and 17.

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u/Professional_Emu3041 Aug 18 '22

Pretty much everyone on the high school football team at my school had one or multiple concussions at an absolute minimum before they graduated and they never won anything. HS football will literally leave kids with brain damage in America before they even start their lives, when the vast majority of HS players will never see college or pro play. It is basically a guarantee, given the conditions of the game and anyone who challenges the ethics or safety involved is decried as “ruining tradition” or a snowflake.

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u/Painting_Agency Aug 18 '22

anyone who challenges the ethics or safety involved is decried as “ruining tradition” or a snowflake.

Entire town threatens boy and his family after he's injured by the traditional football game cannon (2006)

Says it all really. In many places high school sports are a religion and Thou Shalt Not Question.

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u/official_guy_ Aug 18 '22

When I was in high-school, the athletic dept thought it would be OK for an 8th grader to play varsity football, just because be was tall and quick. His leg was broken about halfway through the first quarter of the first game of the season. We heard the bone break in the bleachers, heard him screaming and crying too. I might be wrong but I belive he had some kind of permanent damage to the leg.

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u/SarahJLa Aug 18 '22

It's fucked indeed, but I don't know the solution. Kids who don't have access to early team sports will never be able to compete professionally, so stopping K-12 sports in areas where that would even be possible would only condemn children in those areas who are athletically gifted to never being able to achieve their potential. Not just the pro-worthy kids either, but the ones who can make it to college on their abilities as well. Hell, varsity sports are often some of the fondest memories men have when they're older, so plain enjoyment of the sport is something to consider there too.

How to keep the kids from grievous injury seems very trick. Even safety measures in practice sessions can be detrimental to player performance, as the other guy detailed. I don't envy the people who's job it is to deal with the mess. We can hope technology and sports medicine advancements will bring preventative measures and treatments, but that's sort of like the conservative solution for catastrophic climate change.

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u/saturnspritr Aug 18 '22

My dad talked about how they did three-a-days back in the 70s. That ended when they finally proved that it was definitely related to a couple kids dying.

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u/StuffMaster Aug 18 '22

Yeah the dying thing happened in the 90s too. Some coaches were denying water when asked.

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u/SmallCatDgaf Aug 18 '22

Legit this is the reason I stopped playing football in 10th grade (varsity). I was an above average student. Two a days made me a below average student within 3 months, even with coach telling the teachers to ease up. Was the first executive decision I made in life.

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u/resplendentquetzals Aug 18 '22

Yeah, my school trained the players for college level and beyond. While our school does have a couple NFL players in their portfolio, the majority (obviously) don't go on to compete professionally. Instead, they receive a sub-par education because they're all tired from doing two a days 5 days a week. You have zero life outside of football.

Not fun.

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u/VaibhavGuptaWho Aug 18 '22

Your coach was a smart man.

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u/nice2boopU Aug 18 '22

They had us do two-a-days like all summer, and then there was even a week where they took the whole team to some college in the summer to have us do three-a-days while we lived in the dorms. I have zero fond memories of it all other than the limited time of shooting shit with friends there. Total waste of time.

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u/8ytecoder Aug 18 '22

I’m reading this book called ‘Why We Sleep?’ Where the author goes through the bad effects of not getting enough sleep for your body and the brain and after a while I lost my will to live. Sleep seems so important for both academics and sports and brain development and mental health and general wellbeing. I can’t believe we’re torturing our kids like this. (My school - in a different country - started at 9am and closed at 4pm). Never once woke up before 7.30 until K12.

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u/bibbitybobbityboo6 Aug 18 '22

2 a days are generally used as a conditioning week in pre season. The really hard conditioning is done in the early am when it's cooler, then positional and team drills in the afternoon with some light conditioning work. This generally takes place 2 weeks before school start and 3-4 weeks before the games start. A coach would have to be insane to try and sustain 2 a day's through a whole season for students.

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u/derekjoel Aug 17 '22

5:15 basketball practice for the freshmen. :) It isn’t as bad as having class but it’s a close 2nd because for anyone with challenging afternoon courses suffered.

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u/Swimming-Sun-2357 Aug 17 '22

Same here. I can't believe my mom put up with that shit. I was not a happy person at 5 am, and to think she got my ass going, drove me to school, came home, got my brother going, drove him back to the same school, then went to work? Just can't fathom it. I would gladly let my kid miss practice if he gave me just a tiny bit of resistance at that hour. Thanks Mom!

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u/ckjm Aug 17 '22

I do not have kids and never will have kids. The thought of managing a small, grumpy human in the early hours every day sounds absolutely miserable.

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u/Random_act_of_Random Aug 17 '22

It is, but then they do something cute and you think, "Maybe this is worth it." Then they throw up on you and the cycle starts again.

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u/ckjm Aug 17 '22

Oh Lord, a never ending cycle I'm sure haha more power to ya!

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u/Jrdirtbike114 Aug 18 '22

Tbh when my 3 year old gets shitty with me, internally I'm saying "you go girl, tell your dad what's up" lol

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u/eveninghawk0 Aug 18 '22

Haha! That's a good perspective. If you don't want it, don't go anywhere near kids. There's early morning grump and a lot of good and fun things too. But def not a life everyone wants. What matters is getting to choose.

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u/ckjm Aug 18 '22

I think kids are a riot... but I enjoy knowing I don't have to care for them all day every day lol I just straight up couldn't do that.

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u/eveninghawk0 Aug 18 '22

My best friend is child-free and loves her nieces and nephews but does not want full-time kids. Makes total sense. And she has a great time with them and then goes home to her own quiet space and loves that.

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u/giritrobbins Aug 17 '22

Sounds like a rowing schedule

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u/WayneKrane Aug 17 '22

I was all set to join the rowing team in college until I learned how early they started. We had to drive like 30 minutes away to practice and it started at 6:30 AM. I’m not a morning person at all.

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u/sierra2113 Aug 18 '22

Back when I was rowing in high-school, we had to be at the boat club at 430am/5am. It was rough.

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u/jps4851 Aug 18 '22

No sport is worth waking up that early for.

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u/SLUUGS Aug 18 '22

Rowing necessitates being up that early otherwise there will be way too much traffic on the water

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u/BatCage Aug 18 '22

That's what cannons are for

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u/RonaldRaygun2024 Aug 18 '22

Just like the founding fathers intended.

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u/HanselTheGreat Aug 18 '22

This is so specific as to where you grew up as to not be relevant. I stopped rowing as soon as they started requiring me to get up at 4:XX to make it to practice (instead of after school, which was absolutely an option that they could have taken). I personally was never the best but going hard to drive students away who don't place rowing above their school life didn't seem to work for them given that we placed 6/8 or worse for the entirety of my high school life

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u/ChefInF Aug 17 '22

Night practice will go till 9… also if you get Ds or lower you can’t play.

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u/str4yshot Aug 17 '22

This should also be outlawed. Let kids sleep ffs. I had morning workouts and they ruined my day and my enjoyment of the sport.

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u/BeautifulType Aug 18 '22

Dogshit world when kids are subjected to the workday schedule

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u/PM_me_opossum_pics Aug 17 '22

Legit question: are all teenage sports in the US tied to school? Or are there actual sports clubs?

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u/Cheibrodos Aug 17 '22

There are sport clubs, but most often you need to pay a ton of money to join them.

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u/Lostmahpassword Aug 18 '22

Yup. I pay $625 a year for my 12 year old to play soccer. It increases with age/level as well.

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u/TexasSprings Aug 18 '22

There are club sports but they are usually only for rich kids in affluent areas.

American schools are a little different from European because it’s more of a community outreach program along with just book learning. American schools provide tons of programs for Students and people in the community. This is especially true for schools in rural or urban environments (which is more than 50% of the USA).

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u/Throwaway242353 Aug 18 '22

Yeah fuck that shit man. And they wonder why kids didn't want to practice

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u/idreamofdinos Aug 17 '22

5:30 for swim practice 👍 loved it tbh

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u/Kulagin Aug 17 '22

So what? You wake up at 3 AM to start your practice at 5 AM? That doesn't sound healthy. From what I've learned on the topic is that the best hours to sleep are 10PM - 6 AM.

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u/ChefInF Aug 17 '22

Imagine falling asleep at 10

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u/lambofgun Aug 17 '22

i dont imagine it, i live it

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u/ChefInF Aug 18 '22

It’s impolite to brag

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u/Thewalrus515 Aug 17 '22

If we didn’t have sports why even have the school open smh. /s.

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u/sonofagunn Aug 17 '22

Meanwhile my 2 high school kids have to be at school around 7:00 AM while the kid in middle school starts around 9:30. I understand there are issues with the bus schedules, but we know that research shows the kids would learn best if elementary kids started first, middle school second, and high school last.

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u/RockerElvis Aug 17 '22

Same in our district. The parents of elementary school kids complained that they didn’t want their kids starting as early as the current high school does. Guess what they will want when their kids are in high school…

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u/FatalExceptionError Aug 17 '22

High school students typically need less parental involvement to get ready for school. So likely the parents will be less concerned about their schedules.

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u/OfJahaerys Aug 17 '22

Which is why they can be home alone for an hour or so while their parents are at work in the morning. Having elementary kids start early means parents only need aftercare, not before AND after.

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u/Both_Face_4593 Aug 17 '22

This is why the push failed in our town.

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u/JustaRandomOldGuy Aug 17 '22

My son had a car in high school. He knew to the second when he would have to leave to get the lights right to get to school just before the bell.

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u/lolofaf Aug 17 '22

I had a car in high school and I would occasionally arrive in the 5m between "school starts, gates are locked" bell and "classes start, you're now tardy" bell. I'd have to do a walk/run of shame thru the office to get in to my first class lol

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u/Florae128 Aug 17 '22

What time does school finish?

Uk schools tend to be 9-3, with wraparound care like breakfast club for working parents, 7am seems very early.

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u/Voldemort57 Aug 17 '22

American schools generally start anywhere between 7 am and 8 am, and go to 2 or 3 pm.

In California now, high schools will be starting at 8:30 am and going till nearly 4 pm at their latest, however most high schoolers will go 8:30 to about 2:30-3.

When I was in high school in California, I did 6:30 am to 3 pm my first two years, and 9 am to 12:30 pm my last two years.

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u/Enorats Aug 17 '22

9 am to 12:30 pm?!

How did you have time for anything more than lunch and half a class period?

We started at ~7 and went to ~3 when I was in high school. 4 hour and a half class periods, with the remainder for lunch and transitions.

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u/Voldemort57 Aug 17 '22

3 one hour periods, 5 minutes between each class, and a 10 minute break after the first two classes. The school stopped letting students do that the year after I graduated for obvious reasons. Kids weren’t supposed to be able to get out that early and come in that late, but there was a loophole sorta thing that people abused.

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u/celticchrys Aug 18 '22

IDK about now, but it was common (at least in some parts of the USA) in the 1990s/early 2000s still for kids in the last two years of high school to only go to school for half a day if they have a part-time job. You had to have proof of employment to do this where I lived. Most kids at that age only had 2-4 "mandatory for graduation" classes that they still need, and most classes are about an hour long (for the entire school year), so you can go to school from 8-12, get in 4 classes, then leave to go to your part time job. I mean, you were old enough to get married if your parents consented, so you were old enough to have a job if they consented, and the school still got to claim federal funding for you if you were there half a day instead of dropping out entirely to work. I had classmates with jobs at McDonalds, but also classmates with trainee jobs at places like banks. It was actually a great thing for some who didn't intend/couldn't afford to go to college.

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u/Florae128 Aug 17 '22

Thanks! 8:30 seems much more reasonable, I don't think I'd be able to get everyone out of bed and at school for 7am! Not the little ones anyway.

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u/Voldemort57 Aug 17 '22

It was a horrible experience. The students and the teachers of the early morning classes never got anything done.

Taking linear algebra before 7 am was hell.

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u/wandering_ones Aug 17 '22

School still finishes at 3. My school times were 8am-3pm in high school, and with optional additional classes at 7am (sports, yearbook, journalism, etc.).

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u/Florae128 Aug 17 '22

Thanks :)

Its more usual here for optional activities to be after school from 3 onwards.

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u/wandering_ones Aug 17 '22

Oh there were more optional activities after (that were more STEM related, plus sports and arts).

And really I say optional, but my school pushed them all very hard as having them made you better candidates for getting into better universities.

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u/CrimsonRaven712 Aug 18 '22

When I was in high school we started at 7:15am and finished at 2:10pm. But, our school district covered such a big area that some kids would get on the bus as early as 6am.

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u/noronto Aug 17 '22

I am old and was confused when reading about some of the start times for schools nowadays. This is crazy that a law needs to be enacted to have school start no earlier than 8:30. Most studies have shown that High School should start at 10am.

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u/hogtiedcantalope Aug 17 '22

Any house with teenagers and toddlers can understand the dichomety of Saturday morning wake up times

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u/legandaryhon Aug 17 '22

To add on:

I don't think it's quite so explicitly that middle schoolers/high schoolers should be starting later because of the principal that they're in middle/high school, but because middle and high schoolers naturally wake up later and forcing them to wake up earlier to fit your standardized schedule impedes their natural sleep schedule. (Source: High school french teacher, when describing the benefits of France's later start time)

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u/loverlyone Aug 17 '22

Yes, research shows that teens benefit from the extra sleep.

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u/Vertigomums19 Aug 17 '22

My district in NY does this. Elementary starts first. 750am start.

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u/catcommentthrowaway Aug 18 '22

They did this when I went to school in Rockland county, but it’s actually what parents preferred because most of them worked in nyc which was an hour to two hour commute. So getting the kids out of the house by 730 was perfect because you could make sure your kid was at the bus stop and still make it home on time.

They had high school start later because at that age kids can get ready and take themselves to school on their own.

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u/Vandelay_Industries- Aug 17 '22

The biggest issue with moving high school later is the number of students involved in after-school activities such as sports and clubs. Does early dismissal for a traveling sport still happen at the same time and then those kids are missing an extra hour of school? Does an after-school program now end at 6 PM instead of 5 PM?

I don’t think it’s an insurmountable issue and I don’t think sports and clubs should be able to usurp academic work, but it’s a legitimate challenge that schools and families would face. People hate change and it would take a very strong-willed administration to do this during a time where schools are already fighting off attacks from every angle every day.

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u/Shadowfalx Aug 17 '22

https://www.reddit.com/r/UpliftingNews/comments/wqwvz8/slug/ikq0dna

Basically, optional activities shouldn't prevent mandatory activities from starting at age appropriate times (and is usually moot since end times are generally not much later than currently)

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u/boredsittingonthebus Aug 17 '22

What? These comments make me realise how lucky I was to be starting at 9am in Scotland. Even then I was showing up like a total zombie. Anything earlier than that would have been torture.

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u/diata22 Aug 18 '22

Didn’t go to school in the us but considering I had a 1hr commute for 8 AM school it was rough

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u/bkr1895 Aug 18 '22

Oh yeah it sucked I was getting up at 5:30 to get to school. It’s kind of fucked up to do that to teenagers who need more sleep on average during that time in their lives.

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u/MickIAC Aug 18 '22

Part of it is : its fucking cold and dark during the winters.

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u/[deleted] Aug 18 '22 edited Aug 18 '22

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u/Funky_Sack Aug 17 '22

First class in HS started at 7:15. Bus arrived at my stop at 6:30.

That shit fucking sucked.

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u/fatchancefatpants Aug 18 '22

I lived a mile from my high school which started at 7:20am. If I wanted to take the bus, it would've picked me up at 5:45, taken me to a middle school 7 miles in the wrong direction where I'd have to transfer busses, and then get to my school at 7:15 if it was perfectly on time. I opted to walk cuz that shit was dumb

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u/fluorescent_hippo Aug 18 '22

Mine was 6:15 pickup school start at 7:50 in hs lol I feel the pain

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u/livingfortheliquid Aug 17 '22

My kid loves it. She now gets to school 20 minutes early cause "she now has enough time not to be late"

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u/CutieBoBootie Aug 17 '22

Legislation based on facts and data? Holy shit.

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u/CustosEcheveria Aug 17 '22

Man I needed this shit 20 years ago, lmao

Glad they're doing it now though, long overdue. Teens need more rest and less homework.

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u/r0botdevil Aug 17 '22

Yeah absolutely.

Graduated high school in 2001, had a 7:30am start the whole time and it was miserable. Glad that at least in California, high school students aren't going to be put through that anymore.

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u/tuckerhazel Aug 17 '22

I had AP Calc 1st hour for 3 quarters senior year in 2013/2014. I can’t remember exactly but 1.5 hours-ish from 7:30 - 9:00 just wasn’t productive.

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u/huggsypenguinpal Aug 17 '22

sameish. Calc AB at 7am. No wonder I didn't make it to Calc BC.

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u/chalsp Aug 18 '22

Class of 99. Had to be in the pool by 6am for morning practice. Don't know how I made the drive every morning without falling asleep at the wheel.

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u/soggylittleshrimp Aug 18 '22

Class of ‘00 - 5am swim practice across town, got a reputation for snoring in class I was so dead by 1:30pm.

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u/r0botdevil Aug 18 '22

Yeah I was on the wrestling team for a year, and we had 6am practice to prepare for the district tournament. Was not fun.

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u/othybear Aug 17 '22

We started around 7:15, which was awful since I took the bus so I had to be at the bus stop by 6. We also had terrible lunch schedules and my lunch period started at 10:45. It was rough to have to wait until my dad got home after 6 to eat dinner, even with a small snack after school.

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u/-transcendent- Aug 18 '22

I used to have gym class at 7:15 am. Actually painful.

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u/96puppylover Aug 18 '22

This was the same schedule as my high school/ I woke up at 5:30.

All my classmates would lay their heads on their desks during morning announcements. Just trying to get a bit more sleep. My homeroom teacher scolded us and said our “little cat naps” weren’t going to get us anywhere in life.

I’m glad things are changing. They need to do this everywhere.

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u/TheLostCaptain03 Aug 17 '22

I’m going through it now with a 7:05am start

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u/canadeken Aug 18 '22

WTF is this an american thing?? 7:05 am?? I've never heard of a high school starting before like 8:45

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u/96puppylover Aug 18 '22

American.

I went to school in Maryland.

5:30 am- wake up 6:10-bus pick up 7:05- first bell 7:15-homeroom 10:30-lunch 1:55pm- schools out and we had 10 minutes to get to our buses

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u/HappyLittleRadishes Aug 17 '22

Thank you for not being a crab in a bucket.

I also had to get up at the ass crack of dawn to go to high school, and I imagine there are people in this very thread saying shit like "if I had to lose sleep to go to school then so should today's generation!"

The point of human progress is to make things easier for every subsequent generation.

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u/-shabushabu Aug 17 '22 edited Aug 18 '22

It's literally the sleepy teens, like you, pushing for the change as adults. Previous adults really failed to work to better educate kids and thought that just tossing them in a room with books, and an extremely underpaid babysitter, was all they needed to not be criminals... and to them, that was enough.

I say underpaid because a babysitter would cost $100-$150 per day per kid... But a teacher gets about $8 per kid per day...

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u/BabyYodasDirtyDiaper Aug 17 '22

and thought just tossing kids in a room with books and an extremely underpaid babysitter was all they needed to not be criminals

Well, to be fair, that's what they did with me, and I'm mostly not a criminal.

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u/-shabushabu Aug 18 '22

They did it to all of us... That's how I know 😅

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u/Future_World_Ruler Aug 17 '22

Man I’m Canadian and this is supposed to be uplifting???? I can’t believe y’all ever had school start before 8 thats crazy

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u/PrinceBingus Aug 18 '22

Teens need more rest and less homework.

Peach

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u/Knuckles_71 Aug 17 '22

Uk here we start at 8.45/ 9.00am for all ages.

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u/Fullonski Aug 17 '22

Australia here, school starts at 8.30 at the absolute earliest, but usually 8.45-9.10am. this whole comment section is blowing my mind! I thought it was some recent thing because of budget cuts but then people are saying they had classes before 8 in the 70s and may or may not have had sport training before that, unbelievable.

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u/GinjaNinja-NZ Aug 18 '22

Yep, here in New Zealand I've never seen a school start at any earlier than 8:45.

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u/UnstoppablePhoenix Aug 18 '22

Kiwi here, earliest I've ever started was 8:50am

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u/Migrane Aug 18 '22

Ireland here. Primary started at 9. And secondary, at least at mine, started at 845. But that was for our form group. Classes started at 9

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u/Wookeii Aug 18 '22

Yeah similar in Australia and I’d never read that US kids start so early, fucking stupid idea.

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u/PM_your_Chesticles Aug 17 '22

Canada here. Same deal. Every thing I hear out of the States has made me more and more disappointed in that wack country.

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u/mystiqueallie Aug 18 '22

I’m in Alberta and my kids’ school is 8:05 to 2:45pm. The kindergarteners were 7:55-11:15 or 12:10-2:45. I am not a morning person and wish our school started later.

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u/FrustratedCalico Aug 18 '22

Canada here. I drive through a school zone on my way to work at around 8:50/9:00 am. The kiddos are just being dropped off then

7am start to school is mindblowing.

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u/jktsub Aug 17 '22

I remember my honors physics class senior year started at 7:40 am - that was fucked.

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u/SadOccasion Aug 18 '22

Ours was 7:15

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u/jakeeeenator Aug 18 '22

My high school started at 7:05. Shit sucked

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u/KrombopulosRosie Aug 17 '22

I don't understand why anyone would think to schedule that way.

I thought it was bad having a film studies class at 8am! Basically a really uncomfortable nap every Tuesday/Thursday as a freshman in college... really didn't matter if I wanted to stay awake for the film or not

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u/BeeCJohnson Aug 18 '22

I, very foolishly, took a music appreciation class at 730 am in college. The teacher turned off the lights and we listened to classical music through the ages.

That was nap class.

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u/seanx40 Aug 17 '22

AP biology. 730am the first semester. Then 5th hour the second. Honors literature 1st hour the second. I really only showed up for tests

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u/trystanthorne Aug 18 '22

Lol normal high school start was 730. Heaven forbid you had a zero period class that started at 645.

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u/DumpsterRaccoons Aug 18 '22

My school day literally started at 7AM every single day in high school. The bus came at like 6:10.

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u/stsixtus420 Aug 17 '22

Meanwhile in Dearborn, MI we are moving from a 7:50 start to a 7:20 start, which was what I had in high school in the late 90s. Why the fuck are we doing this to our kids and us parents?

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u/backupJM Aug 18 '22

Omg what?!

In my local schools, in Scotland, school started at 9am for Primary/elementary school kids and 8:45am for High School kids, I just cannot imagine starting school at 7:20am!

What time must you guys awaken then?

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u/stsixtus420 Aug 18 '22

Well, in high school I also lived in a bigger city with lots of morning commute traffic and I went to a magnet school that had an advanced (questionable) program called International Baccalaureate and that school was a 25 minute drive from my house if there wasn't traffic. I woke up usually at 5:45 and left the house no later than 6:45.

I haven't let myself think about what time I need to wake up this year to get all 3 kiddos to their schools, which start at the same time and aren't near each other...

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u/backupJM Aug 18 '22

Best of luck to you and your kiddos!

I used to wake up at around 7:30 - 8am depending on how quickly I could get out of bed lol, take a shower and get dressed, have tea and breakfast, and then leave the house at around 8:20am, to arrive for around 8:35-40ish and then hang with my friends until the bell rang. I definitely would not have been able to handle waking up at 5:45am, kudos to you!

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u/coconut_bacon Aug 17 '22

UK teacher here. Reading comments where lessons start at 06:40, 06:45, 06:20??!! I'm not even awake until 07:00 when my alarm goes. I certainly wouldn't function as a teacher at that hour, how do the US pupils even function? School starts for my students at 08:45, and I still think that is too early and kids in my tutor group are often still half asleep. 😱

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u/seanx40 Aug 17 '22

Way back in high school, we started at 730. However, some sports had practice at 6 or 630. Wrestling was at 6. I quit after 2 weeks.

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u/coconut_bacon Aug 17 '22

All sports practice in UK in the schools I've worked at have all been after school i.e. 15:30-16:30. 06:00??!!! Don't blame you for quitting after 2 weeks.

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u/idreamofdinos Aug 17 '22

In many cases that's the first practice of the day. For example, I swam competitively in high school and we had a 1.5 hour practice before school started (and that started at 7:30) and then a 2 hour practice after school.

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u/coconut_bacon Aug 17 '22

I had a friend in who swam at a county level who went swimming before school at 06:00 most mornings, but that wasn't linked to school.

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u/WhiskeyAndVinyl Aug 17 '22

I published a paper 8 years ago during my pgce showing that teens (14+) learn best after 10am. It's to do with intrinsic circadian rhythms. Anything earlier than that is interfering with their natural sleep pattern and is therefore harmful rather than beneficial

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u/shumcal Aug 17 '22

That's fascinating. Did you look at latitude for that paper? I'm curious if that's got implications for people in places where the sun rises much later (or earlier). Is it affected by seasons too?

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u/drakgremlin Aug 17 '22

The answer is they don't. Often they struggle and are told they are failing in our supposed egalitarian merit system.

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u/coconut_bacon Aug 17 '22

I wonder if the Californian ruling will make a difference to test scores?

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u/Obant Aug 18 '22

That's why they did it. Studies show it does.

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u/jfb1337 Aug 18 '22

Yeah, sometimes it's sad to hear what qualifies as 'uplifting news' in the states

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u/PinqPrincess Aug 18 '22

I'm in the UK too and was stunned at this ruling. My secondary (high school) school son has to be in for 825 and I think that's way too early tbh. He finishes at 235 so that's a good thing. Who on earth thought that teenagers starting school before 8 was gonna work?! I don't get how they're functioning lol

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u/gargamels_right_boot Aug 17 '22

What the fuck?? Here school starts at 9 am, what the fuck is this earlier than 8 am bullshit?

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u/JoshuaACNewman Aug 17 '22

I’m a teacher in an alternative school in Massachusetts. We start at 9 because teenagers’ brains straight up don’t work before then. We’d probably start at 10 if we could, but we still need to sync with parents’ work schedule at least a little.

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u/WorldClassShart Aug 17 '22

This checks out. My first 3 periods in high school were spent sleeping.

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u/lemons427 Aug 17 '22

Can you name the school? Looking for a different experience for my kids and we are moving to mass. Thanks!!

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u/JoshuaACNewman Aug 17 '22

It’s called Lighthouse and it’s in Holyoke!

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u/poprof Aug 17 '22

Doesn’t lighthouse also operate on a principle that students don’t even have to be on campus except for advising/specific events.

It seems cool - very different from model other local schools

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u/JoshuaACNewman Aug 17 '22

I guess? But the kids are almost always there. We hold them to their objectives, so if they’re not coming to school and aren’t doing stuff, we don’t consider that to be working well.

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u/deWaardt Aug 18 '22

I'm 23, my brain still doesn't work before 9.

Yet you're expected to drive before that. No wonder so many accidents happen during morning traffic: the entire society is just a massive middle finger in the face of everyone who isn't a morning person.

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u/Dd_8630 Aug 18 '22

Wait - UK teacher here. How early did Americans go to school then? 8am is still very very early!

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u/cpMetis Aug 18 '22

The latest of anyone I know was 7:40 tardy bell, which was most including myself.

Of course, when you actually get there and when you wake up a very different from that. I usually could sleep as late as 5:00 if I skimped out on taking a shower.

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u/bottleofgoop Aug 18 '22

Us all down here in Aus complaining because a nine am start is barbaric

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u/[deleted] Aug 17 '22

9am to around 3.30pm was a standard day when I was in school, are kids really starting before 8 in the states?! Ouch

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u/lost_on_beverly_road Aug 17 '22

7:30 to 2:30 for the high school I work at in the states.

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u/GreenSoxMonster Aug 17 '22

My middle schooler left the house at 6:45 to catch the bus.

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u/Garnetsareunderrated Aug 17 '22

My high school starts at 7:20 and ends at 2:10

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u/ThrowTheCollegeAway Aug 17 '22

I didn't do any extracurriculars that required me to be to school early and I woke up each day at 5:45am for 4 years of high school to make it to first period on time. Coincidentally (not) I took a nap each day in 6th period.

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u/daboot013 Aug 17 '22

All sorts of study show it's smart to start a child's day later.

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u/llamawithguns Aug 17 '22

My high-school started at 8:30, but depending on where you lived the bus pick up could be as early as 7:00

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u/WeaverFan420 Aug 17 '22

This is great. When I was in high school, first period started before 7am. It was ridiculous and took quite a toll on me. 8:30 is much more reasonable.

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u/TimDeQuatro Aug 17 '22

Wth when was it starting before for then?

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u/WayneKrane Aug 17 '22

The latest my schools ever started was 7:35am.

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u/MommalovesJay Aug 17 '22

My daughter starts middle school next year and she’s starting at 7:25. Save us. Lol.

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u/Funky_Sack Aug 17 '22

Uhhh, forever in America.

My first class in HS was always 7:15

That shit sucked. Waking up at 6:30 as a teenager is brutal.

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u/LiteUpThaSkye Aug 17 '22

Registered my kid yesterday and yea.. his hours in 7th grade are now 830 to 340.

Glad to see it. When I was a kid forever moons ago, I was catching the school bus at like 645.

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u/pumpkinejuice Aug 17 '22

So glad this is finally happening. I had 7:20 start all through high school and no matter how early I went to sleep never adjusted. I would come home crash for like 2 hours then do homework. All the whole barely staying awake in class. Later start times and warmer classrooms need to be a thing. All I remember from high school was being freezing and tired all the time.

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u/doit_toit_lars Aug 17 '22

YES! My fucking principal said it helped keep everyone awake during class. No, if anything I’m distracted by my own teeth chattering and 4 hours of sleep and half of a pop tart that’s been barely fueling me for 6 hours already.

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u/al_rey503 Aug 17 '22

Good, we used to have to be at the bus stop by 6:30am!

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u/MEI72 Aug 17 '22

Seems reasonable. And unreasonable to start any earlier honestly.

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u/Iscrollforlinks Aug 17 '22

i read a paper a long time ago about how anything before 9 am doesn’t really do anything. i was never a morning person, my parents had to drag me out of bed regardless of the amount of sleep i got the night before. i think if school started at 9-10 am for me, it would have made a difference.

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u/CitizenJustin Aug 17 '22

I remember not being able to help falling asleep in class. Had nothing to do with not caring, I just physically couldn’t.

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u/GodzlIIa Aug 17 '22

did you fall asleep in your morning class?

I wouldnt normally crash till later in the day, even if I was tired in the morning.

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u/CitizenJustin Aug 17 '22

Yes I would in the morning and afternoon sometimes. It was so difficult as my eyes felt so heavy. One teacher didn’t wake me up and let the next class just stare and laugh at me. Of course she didn’t take into consideration that I might have a medical issue. She thought she’d teach me a lesson by embarrassing me.

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u/WayneKrane Aug 17 '22

I hated teachers who shamed students like that. A teacher would do that to this poor kid in high school. His dad died so he had to work and help raise his younger siblings which didn’t leave much time for sleep. He’d always fall asleep in class and the teacher would bang his desk real hard to wake him up and then everyone would laugh.

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u/CitizenJustin Aug 17 '22

What an asshole and the sad thing is at that age you don’t really know how to defend yourself.

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u/Minionz Aug 17 '22

One of the main reasons school starts earlier is so the parents can get to work by 8am. I guess parents will get exceptions at work going forward in California. As a kid I would have loved starting later as I always stayed up later and slept in at that age.

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u/RevengencerAlf Aug 17 '22

One of the main reasons school starts earlier is so the parents can get to work by 8am

Which honestly makes it even more ridiculous that most districts start the oldest kids first. They're the ones by far need the least supervision to get moving and at least legally can be left at home if the parents have to leave before they need to go to the bus.

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u/LiquidBionix Aug 17 '22

I have to imagine that it has to do with after-school stuff like sports and clubs. I played football in HS and we had a pretty early start but I still wasn't done and showered until like 7 PM.

It's still stupid though

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u/RevengencerAlf Aug 17 '22

That's the excuse but let's be real even if you started 2 hours later you are still done in plenty of time to shut your day down, and again teenagers are far more capable of operating safely later in the day than grade schoolers are anyway.

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u/makemisteaks Aug 17 '22

The way it works in my country is that classes start at 9AM but kids can be in school from 7AM onwards (there’s a small fee required to pay for the team monitoring and entertaining the kids).

Same thing happens in the afternoon. Regular schedule ends at 5PM but you can choose to keep them an extra 2 hours if you need to.

It’s really not that complicated.

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u/AcrylicTooth Aug 17 '22

That's everyone. Teenage brains are hardwired to be night-owls; it's just a weird developmental stage.

This article is older; the law was changed right before/during COVID. I'm a teacher in CA who taught starting at 8 and now at 8:30 and just the 30-minute difference changes the entire tone of 1st period. More kids are able to function and participate now; less falling asleep right after they get seated.

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u/drakgremlin Aug 17 '22

In many places work doesn't start until 9. If SF I've seen the 20 somethings role in at around 10a.

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u/PutSumNairOnThatHair Aug 17 '22

My sons new school starts at 7:45.

He’s not pleased about earlier bedtime. I totally get it.

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u/Mtbruning Aug 17 '22

Research is only been there for 20 years. I’m surprised this hasn’t become the norm. When the school system in Louisville change their highschoolers times Ahead by one hour the SAT scores went up by 150 points on average in the district. Of course America putting tax cuts ahead of education shouldn’t surprise anyone. We get what we pay for. We pay less, we get less.

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u/usernameblankface Aug 17 '22

Finally, someone high enough on the chain of authority decided to make a change to ridiculous start times.

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u/operez1990 Aug 17 '22

Hmm, in 2006 my High School decided to start classes at 8:55am and end at 3:30. I loved those hours.

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u/badfishnchips Aug 18 '22

Kids in Australia don't start class till 9:00am. What use is a kid at 7:30am trying to learn maths... so stupid.

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u/The_Most_Swood Aug 18 '22

Back in my day I had to get up at 5:30am for weight training and then go to school. Keep in mind that back in my day was less than two years ago. I became addicted to caffeine and slept all the time in class. Glad this is a thing.