r/business • u/Another53108 • 20d ago
How does covid hospitalization cost $20k per person, but it costs delta airlines $50k per person?
https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/08/covid-costs-billions-so-delta-to-charge-unvaxxed-airline-workers-200-month/62
u/setatakahashi 20d ago
$20k is a rough estimate by analysts from Peterson Center on Healthcare and Kaiser Family Foundation.
$50k is the CEO stating how much it cost to Delta
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u/shooterlax01 20d ago
As someone who works with self-funded medical plans all day every day… 50k is very believable. Healthcare costs are extremely localized, even within cities.
Not to mention the 20k figure is a Medicare number which is typically half or less of private insurance for hospitalization and inpatient care.
If you’re gonna come call bullshit at least know what you’re talking about
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u/RigusOctavian 19d ago
Not to mention the 20k figure is a Medicare number which is typically half or less of private insurance for hospitalization and inpatient care.
Notice, the services delivered aren’t any different, just who is paying them, yet there is price differential… The fact that we accept this for our healthcare system is beyond insane.
Services should cost the same no matter who is receiving them and how they are paying when they are from the same place/time. Sure, you could slide around the percentage share between the insurer and the insured but it shouldn’t cost more based on your insurance provider.
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u/shooterlax01 19d ago
Why some version of single payer (I'm not smart enough to figure out the right answer) is necessary as one step to control spend amongst dozens of other steps like more PCP engagement, value based care initiatives, etc.
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u/isocrackate 20d ago
Super misleading title. The article doesn’t pose this question at all, it’s about cost-sharing (coinsurance etc.) waivers from health insurance companies for COVID.
Not to mention the question posed is very much apples and oranges.
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u/Evilsushione 20d ago
50k is probably too low. Have you had to go to the hospital in the US before without insurance? Just a few days stay can cost 50k. US medical system is ridiculous.
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u/graviton34 20d ago
The 20K is a rough estimate for all people for all covid hospital care. Delta has access to their actual numbers, so they can see what it actually costs them. Delta serves a lot of large cities, so it's likely that their prices will be higher than average since their employees that get sick are in a higher than average cost of living area.
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u/aboutelleon 20d ago
It's not covering just the hospital bill. So many other things to consider. Did anyone else get sick? Did they have to find replacement work? Pay overtime? Does this change any of their premiums if enough people in their group are hospitalized?
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u/RTVGP 20d ago
Major payers of health care are Medicaid (for the poor, funded by general state and federal taxes), Medicare (for 65+, funded by the specific Medicare tax-FICA), and private insurance (funded by employers snd employees who have insurance). The government sets the rates they will reimburse for care (it doesn’t matter what providers “charge”) for MA & MC. Medicaid routinely and severely underpays the cost of care, with providers getting underpaid the true cost of care in most cases. Medicare is more variable-depending on the diagnoses/care, many rates underpay the true cost of care, some are fair, and some occasionally overpay (not often). So-between all these Ma & MC patients, providers end up losing money most of the time. When it comes to private insurance, the rates are negotiated between providers and each insurance company. Providers need to make up their loses on the Medicaid and often Medicare reimbursements, so they negotiate rates high enough to cover the true cost of care, make up the losses from Medicare and Medicaid, and make a little bit extra. SO, the rates that private insurance pay are often much higher than the true cost of care. This is called “cost shifting”. So even if the “average” cost is $20,000 (which TBH seems low) across the board, the cost to private insurers (any employer-based insurance, like Delta), will be much MUCH higher. And this just relates to the health care cost. If you factor in other losses to the employer like lost productivity, hiring expensive temp staff or Overtime to cover missed shifts, etc. associated with the person being out sick, the cost to the employer may grow even higher.
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u/talino2321 19d ago
It's definitely low. According to fairhealth.org the cost of a patient that does not end up in ICU is around $73K for uninsured and almost $40K for in network. Now remember that is just their stay without ICU!
https://www.fairhealth.org/article/costs-for-a-hospital-stay-for-covid-19
If they end up in the ICU it skyrockets.
https://www.fox13news.com/news/financial-burden-of-getting-covid-19
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u/moocat 20d ago
There's also the crazy issue about how hospital price their services. According to this NY Times article a colonoscopy at the University of Mississippi Medical Center charges $782 for people without insurance, $1463 for those with Cigna, and $2144 for those with Aetna.
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u/urbancamp 19d ago
My parents recently had cataract surgery. For each of them there's been a total of 8 visits to a doctor's office. Of the 8, 2 were of the actual procedure. Each procedure took a maximum of 1.5hrs including prep and postop. Each consultation prior and post procedure took a maximum of 45 minutes. So approximately 6 hours was committed to each of my parents. The cost billed to insurance was $18,000 for each of them. About $3k per hour.
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u/Yetanotheralt17 20d ago
Misleading title created by OP. The article directly explains how the $20k cost of COVID was calculated, and it appears the “$50k” is written nowhere in the article. OP please answer for your crimes against factual information.
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u/Another53108 20d ago edited 20d ago
To quote the quote in the article: ‘ “The average hospital stay for COVID-19 has cost Delta $50,000 per person," Bastian [Delta’s CEO] wrote in the memo. ‘
To respond in kind, “k” is shorthand for 1000. Your computer and smart phone browsers have a search text function. You would have found the info if you searched for ‘$50’…, but that would require caring more about the discussion than trying to make yourself look smarter than the OP. Btw, you failed.
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u/gusonthebus_ 20d ago
Because we’re delta airlines and life is a fucking nightmare
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u/knightress_oxhide 20d ago
we are living in a nightmare dystopia where rejecting safe free vaccinations costs thousands of dollars
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u/International_Tea391 20d ago
I just gotta question, if it was first corona, now delta what do we do when the toyota variant comes.
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u/Flame-747 20d ago
What most people do not understand, the ins carriers simply act as administrator to the plan, all of the benefits and cost is determined by the company, the company has the final say in what’s covered, and what’s not. This is referred to as self insured which is the option most companies take, this can have both a positive and or negative impact on the Co bottomline
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u/Iyumuss 20d ago
Or just stop going to the fucking hospital for a glorified flu
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u/urbancamp 19d ago
You idiots don't realize how many of you "glorified flu" covidiots are dead now and were regretting not getting vaccinated, not wearing a mask, not social distancing, and not giving a shit.
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u/thejacksoncage12 20d ago
So some guy making $24k is going to get charged $2,400 by Delta? Cool.
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u/iokonokh 20d ago
Or they gets vaccinated.
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u/thejacksoncage12 20d ago
And if he gets sick from it? Fair to hold Delta legally liable?
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u/PiperArrow 20d ago
Nope. They can quit if they don't like it.
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u/thejacksoncage12 20d ago
It is definitely inequitable. $200 per month is very different for a guy making $35k versus $150k.
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u/PiperArrow 20d ago
Don't really care. It's jackasses like your hypothetical worker who are straining our medical system to the limit, taking up beds that are needed for people with other ailments, and the rare vaccinated COVID patient. All he has to do is get a free shot that has some chance of saving his life, a pretty good chance of preventing a serious hospitalization, and a vanishingly small probability of harming him. It may also save the life of someone he doesn't infect because he was, you know, vaccinated.
It's inequitable that jackasses like him are expending huge fortunes on medical care they wouldn't need if they weren't jackasses, making insurance more expensive than it need be for the rest of us. It's inequitable that jackasses like him are leaving orphaned children and widowed spouses. It's inequitable that he's more likely to infect others than if he were vaccinated. It's inequitable that if not for jackasses like him, we might have a chance to get ahead of the pandemic.
So no, I don't give a shit if he struggles to survive on $2400 less a year. He can pull up his big boy pants and use his newly minted internet degree in pharmacology, virology, 5G microchip technology, epidemiology, and animal husbandry to start a new career. Let him go find a job with some Trump humping red hatter who is also opposed to vaccines and is willing to provide him with all the horse deworming medication he needs when his lungs start filling up with fluid. Then everyone will be happy.
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u/RoboCat23 20d ago
Ok, but that doesn’t solve the problem, as you can still get covid after getting the vaccine. Try again.
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u/n_choose_k 20d ago
But he wouldn't be charged the surcharge if he was, therefore negating your conterpoint.
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u/urbancamp 19d ago
Get covid, chill at home for a couple of days while the mild symptoms are readily dealt with by a vaccinated body that has the resources to combat the virus. Or be a fucking idiotic, unvaccinated piece of shit that readily spreads the virus and also burdens the hospital systems.
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u/CoryW1961 20d ago
Because this is all bullshit. Am done with any company forcibly mandating the jab.
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u/ChalupaCabre 20d ago
Am done with any company not mandating vaccinations for all employees.
And guess what, I am a long term customer as I believe in proactive healthcare, I’ll live a long life as a paying consumer.
Good luck anti-vaxxers, your time here is limited.
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u/widdlyscudsandbacon 20d ago
Hopefully you can find time between boosters to get any shopping done
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u/ChalupaCabre 20d ago
Dunno what it’s like where you live, but vaccines were both scheduled appointments and then 15 mins sitting on my phone watching Time Tok videos making fun of anti-vaxxers . Pretty awesome!
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u/hotprints 20d ago
Lucky you. I spent my 15 mins talking to the most talkative grandma ever. Wishing I could look at my phone but not wanting to be rude. At least we are both safer for it.
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u/CoryW1961 19d ago
Actually i feel the opposite. Two family members have suffered immensely since the jab. Both got covid anyways. My daughter hasn't had a voice since the jab. She's 40. I didn't get it and took care of them. That's all I need to rely on: personal experience. Shame on you for basically thinking your opinion is the only valid one. I suggest doing some research before pushing your fake ideas on others, especially by a mandate.
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u/ChalupaCabre 19d ago
I know hundreds of people who have had both vaccinations, in a variety of AstraZeneca, Pfizer, Moderna & J&J.
Nobody had any issues other than some had strong immune reactions within 24hrs that lasted about 24hrs.
Of course you would advise we ignore my anecdotal evidence and completely trust and base all decisions on your anecdotal evidence.
Just check the stats yourself if you want to know which is riskier.. a vaccine or covid.. and especially the outcomes of those who catch Covid without my vaccinations, versus those who catch Covid after being vaccinated.
Vaccine doesn’t prevent Covid, it prevents severe medical complications, including but not limited to, death.
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u/CoryW1961 19d ago
Well we are batting 100p for vaccination reactions here and I see them constantly on social media so I don't know what to tell you except you are either a liar, been extremely lucky, or your area is one getting saline vaccines that the CDC admits to.
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u/ChalupaCabre 19d ago
I’m in Canada and we have very high vaccination compliance and very few negative reactions.
Not sure what to tell you. But things aren’t going well down in the US of A. You guys need to step up vaccinations and mask wearing. BIGLY!
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u/CoryW1961 19d ago
Lol. Masks? Are you serious? And um. Canada just recovered from mass infections. That's the key. Get it, let your body do it's thing and become immune. Vaccines aren't working here and masks have never helped.
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u/ChalupaCabre 19d ago
You’re getting your info wrong.. we had vaccine supply issues, we couldn’t get any, so infections went ballistic.
Now we are vaccinated and things are settling down.. it’s not Rocket Appliances!
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u/CoryW1961 19d ago
Your infection rate is down as with any virus because people get it and then gain immunity. Every single vaccinated person I know has contracted covid.
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u/Odd-Change9942 19d ago
Because the politicians are not getting payed from you there getting payed from big companies and corporations.
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u/Creative24K 19d ago
It likely depends on benefits levels for the particular company.
If Delta (for example) has long term benefits, the 1st visit may cost $ dollars. Subsequent visits, including meds, treatment, devices, and long term care may cost $$$ dollars.
Covid has potential for "long-haulers" which are patients with long term (perhaps lifelong effects). These could be very expensive.
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u/Another53108 20d ago edited 20d ago
I think delta is being dramatic or got the intern to calculate this number.
There are costs associated with canceled flights and delayed flights, but i don’t think delta is canceling whole flights. I think they are paying overtime to a replacement pilot, flight attendant, or mechanic, which would not equate to $50k in 2 or 4 weeks of sick leave.
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u/minyinnie 20d ago
Sick leave isn’t the only cost. The cost of the time of the admin team trying to find a replacement, reschedule teams, reschedule/ coordinate getting people to the right location, adhering to airline requirements and timelines, potentially canceled flights, contact tracing to passengers, etc. just the first couple of things that I thought of, take a huge amount of time that would be used otherwise for the company (and therefore are also costs). It’s a butterfly effect of costs in time
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u/thened 20d ago
Have you ever worked for an airline?
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u/Another53108 20d ago
I work in planning and operations for a different mode of transportation.
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u/thened 20d ago
What happens when you can't find a person to drive the vehicle, attend to the vehicle, or fix the vehicle?
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u/ChalupaCabre 20d ago
You wind up paying a shit ton more to get someone to do the work or you pay a shit ton to compensate the customer.
Either way it’s shit tons.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Nerve 20d ago
When 1 person gets covid, we put all employees that were in direct contact with them out on paid leave to quarantine and then get tested. 1 sick person can easily mean sick pay for 10+
I don’t work at delta.
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u/repster 20d ago
Because getting COVID has costs beyond hospitalization for a company like Delta. If your case is serious enough that you need hospitalization, you are not magically healthy when you leave the hospital. You can struggle with debilitating symptoms for quite a while.
For that period, Delta needs to hire extra people and train them. That is neither cheap or fast. And I am sure I am missing a whole bunch of other costs involved.