r/canada Aug 17 '22

Canadian Christian nationalism not Christian, it’s not Canadian, or patriotic either | Jesus said you change the world by changing your heart, Christian nationalists say you change the world by shouting at and insulting people. Paywall

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/contributors/2022/08/17/canadian-christian-nationalism-not-christian-its-not-canadian-or-patriotic-either.html
19 Upvotes

9

u/Hey_There_Blimpy_Boy Aug 18 '22

Le nationalisme, c'est toujours un favori des haineux et des intolérants.

17

u/RhysThornbery Aug 17 '22

As a Christian I personally find it heartbreaking to see the hatred “Christian Nationalists” express to all around them. A manifestation of the ‘my way or the highway’ attitude that seems to be prevalent these days. A distinct lack of understanding, sympathy or compromise with their fellow human beings.

14

u/Warm-Boysenberry3880 Aug 17 '22

This is the Christian Taliban.

19

u/basic_luxury Aug 17 '22

The next 100 years are going to be filled with "religious" cults desperately trying to hold on to power. It is almost a certainty that these "Christian Nationalists" will resort to terrorism to force political change in their favor. No different than ISIS, Sangh Parivar or any number of cults using religion as a cover.

5

u/Uncertn_Laaife Aug 17 '22

Well said, and I believe it to be forthcoming (some of it is already happening in India with no checks and balances by Law enforcement and Judiciary).

-12

u/Competition_Superb Aug 17 '22

I too, thought in such simple terms in high school

6

u/TheCynicalCanuckk Aug 17 '22

I mean.. look what's happening in the south, not far off.

4

u/UnclaimedFortune Aug 18 '22

Which I hope you’re still in… or else yikes!!

6

u/Arbszy Canada Aug 17 '22

They keep saying Sharia Law is coming, but the only one who implement it will the crazy loons.

6

u/KingRabbit_ Aug 17 '22

What has doomed organized religion ultimately is its inability to compete in a marketplace of ideas. The faithful simply cannot mount an argument for it that is based in logic nor one that does not run counter to either scientific knowledge or historical fact.

Now they're panicked and Western Christian nationalism is just another ham-fisted attempt to stave off this inevitable decline.

They tried inculcating children from birth, but those children all ultimately grew into adults and invariably got exposed to the world beyond the Jesus Camps and home schooling. Sure, some stayed with the flock, living perpetually blinkered lives and becoming more and more radical, but many more drifted away. If they didn't become full on atheists, they wound-up practicing a more idiosyncratic version of the faith that does nothing to propagate it to new people.

The attempt to employ the levers of government in preservation and enforcement of one's religion is certainly not novel and has been tried many times before, but in the long term this kind of shit has invariably led to societal decline and eventually wholesale rejection of the religion and the religious.

PEW research says 167 million adult Americans identify as Christian in the US as of 2019:

https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2019/10/17/in-u-s-decline-of-christianity-continues-at-rapid-pace/#:~:text=About%20two%2Dthirds%20of%20them,the%20survey's%20margin%20of%20error).

Let's go real big and assume half of those people are actually Christian nationalists ready and willing to support some type of theocratic form of government. Are 83 million people really going to be able to dictate the lives of the other 247 million without some kind of cataclysmic push back? They haven't got a prayer.

There's really no prospect of the Christian Nationalists, or the Islamic fundamentalists while we're at it, actually winning and getting what they want. But in the meantime they can do a lot of damage. To themselves as well as others.

3

u/yvrdarb Aug 17 '22

It is time to deprogram the entire planet and eliminate all religions.

-2

u/Smashysmash2 Aug 17 '22

I mean, would the Star say anything about other religions staging rallies?

7

u/Onedayatat1m3 Lest We Forget Aug 17 '22

Read the article. It's written by a priest…

5

u/UnclaimedFortune Aug 18 '22

Conservatives don’t read… they bitch at titles

-4

u/GonzoTheGreat93 Aug 17 '22

Jew here: Christians acting in the name of Jesus have focused on “changing the world” through oppression and murder for 2000 years.

Calling them “not christian” is nothing more than an attempt to absolve yourself of responsibility for cleaning up your own house.

Own that shit. And do the work.

14

u/[deleted] Aug 18 '22 edited 23d ago

[deleted]

-7

u/GonzoTheGreat93 Aug 18 '22

Proving my point.

10

u/Disastrous_Block_100 Aug 17 '22

To be fair Jews are also oppressing and murdering in current times, we aren't seeing them trying to clean house.

-12

u/GonzoTheGreat93 Aug 17 '22

We absolutely are and I’m deeply involved with efforts to do so. And this kind of chauvinism is exactly my point. In Canada, All Jews have to answer for all Jews. All Muslims have to answer for all Muslims.

But Christians acting badly? No they can’t be the real Christians. Because, for y’all, “Christian” means “good, right, proper.” That’s what’s so unsettling about Coren’s article. It’s just reinforcing that idea that “Christian” is the ideal when there are billions of people for whom we have our own lives and beliefs.

8

u/leafsDementor Aug 17 '22

Why do all Jews/Muslims have to answer for all Jews/Muslims?

3

u/GonzoTheGreat93 Aug 18 '22

Look at the replies mentioning Palestine, and you’ll see that it’s true. Doesn’t matter why, doesn’t matter if I myself am pro-Palestine or pro-peace. They hear “Jew” and think “this person must answer for all Jews.”

Unlike Rev Corens article linked here, no one would publish or take seriously an article from a Jew saying “Israeli nationalists aren’t REAL Jews.”

Christians are trying to get away with that exactly. Rather than fighting nationalism they’re absolving their own responsibility. Like Pilate.

2

u/[deleted] Aug 18 '22 edited 28d ago

[deleted]

1

u/GonzoTheGreat93 Aug 19 '22

I want them held to the same standard they hold everyone else to, yes.

4

u/Disastrous_Block_100 Aug 17 '22

I don't really see what you're describing. Christians are regularly attacked on all forms of social media especially reddit and basically at every protest.

I would agree with you maybe even 10-15 years ago but lately christians are heavily ridiculed. The only serious bastions of Christian influence left are in parts of the US.

-4

u/GonzoTheGreat93 Aug 17 '22

Boohoo someone was mean to you on Twitter try having to take unpaid time off just to celebrate your religious holidays oh wait.

9

u/Disastrous_Block_100 Aug 17 '22

I'm not even christian lol

5

u/Silly_Chocolate_7847 Aug 17 '22

Neither am I but god forbid you point out Christians are quickly becoming the most persecuted group across the globe.

3

u/[deleted] Aug 17 '22

Honestly. One of the biggest problems with these major world religions is how open to interpretation they are. Nobody can 100% prove their interpretation is what God actually wants, this Christian nationalist interpretation is just as justified to identify as Christian as anybody else who claims to be Christian. And if you think God is asking you to do something really sucked up odds are you will do it. Humans are so stupid

1

u/[deleted] Aug 18 '22 edited Aug 19 '22

The Christian Nationalist interpretation isn’t supported by Bible but that doesn’t seem to stop them. They just produce increasingly annotated bibles and horrifying study guides.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 19 '22

You can justify a lot with the bible. Slavery and incest are a few examples. A lot of what Christian nationalists believe is not informed by the bible but rather their nationalism, but a heck of a lot is justifiable through certain interpretations of the bible. And again one interpretation of the bible is just as justified as any other because NO RELIGIOUS PERSON ACTUALLY KNOWS THE TRUTH

0

u/DownTooParty Aug 17 '22

But if I just go to church once a week I'm all good with the bad shit I do all the time right?

-2

u/Prisonic_Revelation Aug 17 '22

Jew here: Christians acting in the name of Jesus have focused on “changing the world” through oppression and murder for 2000 years.

"Christianity" as we know it wasn't even a religion 2000 years ago.

In my life time, Christianity has been responsebile for a relatively small amount of murder and violence in comparison to other religions.

-5

u/GonzoTheGreat93 Aug 18 '22

Cool, are you 7?

3

u/Prisonic_Revelation Aug 18 '22

No, but you are. That's why you're talking shit behind a keyboard to an internet stranger.

1

u/ASexualSloth Aug 18 '22

Pretty sure you mean institutionalized Christianity. Aka, Catholics, Anglicans, Mormons and the like.

Put any religious face on an institution, it won't matter. It'll still be used as an excuse to benefit the leaders at the expense of everyone else.

0

u/GonzoTheGreat93 Aug 18 '22

Once again proving my point. I - a random Jew with few connections to institutional Judaism, much less the state of Israel, am inundated with comments about Palestine.

But you want to absolve Christians of responsibility for what’s done by Christian institutions.

2

u/ASexualSloth Aug 18 '22

I don't really understand how your personal experiences, independent of me, somehow cancel out my own experiences, independent of you.

There are individuals, and there are institutions. You are no more responsible for the Israeli government or Orthodox Jew councils than I am for the Pope, the Bishop of Canterbury, or whoever is in charge of the Mormons.

Institutionalized religion is simply a tool used by the ruling class. However, living in a country that willfully turns a blind eye to cringes committed by people of one religion, while willfully turning a blind eye to crimes committed against another, is deeply concerning.

0

u/Various_Cattle4594 Aug 17 '22

Jesus also said "I come not to bring peace, but a sword", so maybe leave him in the bronze age where he belongs.

22

u/Shot-Job-8841 Aug 17 '22

I know I’m nitpicking here, but most historians agree the bronze age ended about 1000 years before Jesus.

1

u/IceHawk1212 Aug 17 '22

I mean saying the classical era just doesn't have the same zing to it, I say go with it. I mean he's almost certainly more of a myth than anything so it kinda is moot anyway.

19

u/Euthyphroswager Aug 17 '22

Jesus also said, "In 2000 or so years from now, people on the internet will forget what the working definition of a 'metaphor' is when it suits their purposes."

0

u/zoziw Alberta Aug 18 '22

I knew who the author was before I clicked on the link.

This guy was an ultra-conservative Roman Catholic for decades and hosted shows named after him for many many years, most recently on Sun TV. The conservative leaning newspapers in this country loved him and ran his articles all of the time. He enraged progressives.

Then, about five years ago, he rejects Roman Catholicism and conservatism, becomes a liberal Anglican priest and starts ranting about conservative and traditional Christians (and in this article "Canadian Christian Nationalism")

Now, the more progressive leaning papers love the guy and run his articles all of the time. Now he enrages conservatives.

The guy is just a provocateur and that is all that he is.

1

u/DerDoppelganger70 Aug 18 '22

Maybe he learned for the better?

-18

u/Silly_Chocolate_7847 Aug 17 '22

Shouting at and insulting people, sounds like Trudeau is their leader

7

u/MaxDankness Aug 17 '22

Yeah, I recall all those F U flags Trudeau and Co have been flying as they shout obscenities at healthcare workers.

-9

u/Silly_Chocolate_7847 Aug 17 '22

And those people are no better

2

u/Timbit42 New Brunswick Aug 17 '22

Same people.

3

u/Mordor9 Aug 17 '22

Dar dar dar sock man

-2

u/andrewavax Aug 17 '22

The Christian Right is neither.

-2

u/Notanevilai Aug 17 '22

Many false profits will come in my name but you will know them by their deeds.

-6

u/Mar-A-Lardo Aug 17 '22

The Earth Is OnLY 6,000 YeArS Old Y'aLL.... I moved out of the US to avoid these moronic sacks of shit. It's really sad that the PC's are just a lobbyist group and who better to cozy up to them than the people who claim OnLy JeBus ConTrolS ThE WeaTher.... Yeah keep electing people who wouldn't be qualified to run a Wendys in daily life. Good job.

-8

u/Prisonic_Revelation Aug 17 '22

The Red Star is crying about Christian nationalism now?

Maybe focus on something more important, like Trudeau destroying the middle class rather than woke bullshit?

5

u/UnclaimedFortune Aug 18 '22

Read the article. It’s written by a priest, describing how dubious fundamentalist forces have co-opted “Christianity” to serve their political agenda.

Maybe that way you won’t look like an ignorant 🤡 that doesn’t read

1

u/jaymickef Aug 18 '22

Are you saying the middle-class was fine ten years ago?

-3

u/V1cT Aug 17 '22

I'm pretty sure its not just christians who believe the country is going bad places. To blame a single group is dangerous and irresponsible.

-5

u/[deleted] Aug 17 '22

[deleted]

8

u/IceHawk1212 Aug 17 '22

Yeah no it's even a priest commenting on what is happening, self reflection of one's group can hardly be called a hit piece.

11

u/bandersnatching Aug 17 '22

Read the article. It's written by a priest, describing how dubious fundamentalist forces have co-opted "Christianity" to serve their political agenda.

6

u/PowermanFriendship Aug 17 '22

Christian nationalism is not really a specific sect of Christianity, it is the intersection of Christianity, xenophobia, and political authoritarianism. Saying that bad ideological movements are bad is not discrimination.

0

u/bandersnatching Aug 17 '22 edited Aug 18 '22

What the author describes are the historical antecedents; pre-Enlightenment Calvinist dogma that gave licence to "the select" (by God) to further their agenda though whatever means they read into their old testament doctrines.

These, for instant, were the founding fathers of the United States, and of South Africa. Hence American slavery, and Apartheid. The inheritors of this dogma are today's fundamentalist evangelicals.

They form the backbone of Trumpism in the United states, and in Canada.

While Leslyn Lewis is the public face of this political force, Skippy is mining it all he can. It's unclear whether he, unlike Harper is a fundamentalist evangelical, but regardless, he is giving them all of the oxygen they need, for example, unconditional support of the Convoy cult, which is essentially a front for fundamentalist evangelicals who believe they have special dispensation from God to act outside of Canadian law and social convention.

This is why they seem so loony to everyone else; they don't believe that laws or conventions apply to them, because God said so. Hence the attempt to "arrest" the police in Peterborough, the continual desecration of the war memorial monument in Ottawa, the ramming of the gates at the GG's residence and Parliament Buildings, the occupation of downtown Ottawa, and the concerted violation of Ottawan's legal and human rights.

These, for now, are the people of Skippy. He thinks that he can control them. He's wrong.

2

u/gofourbarney Aug 17 '22

What you said is ludicrous, but I'll bite: Who is this a hit piece on? Once you figure out it's an opinion piece about an ideology, maybe you'll want to look into the mirror and figure out why you had such a nonsensical reaction

1

u/Blastoderm69 Aug 18 '22

Honestly it's anyone who's a political nut trying to force their own beliefs on people.

1

u/GoldAndBlackRule Aug 18 '22

Yeah, not so sure Christians get the high ground on love and peace:

New Testament, Mathew, 10:

Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. And a person’s enemies will be those of his own household.

1

u/Unfair_Horror_2759 Aug 18 '22 edited Aug 18 '22

“Judge not lest ye be judged.” Doesn’t matter if they judge you, doesn’t justify doing the same back to them.

1

u/rando_dud Aug 18 '22

Nationalism is the conviction that your country is better, because YOU were born in it.

1

u/Hrmbee Canada Aug 19 '22

I would consider this kind of behaviour a type of fundamentalism. Fundamentalism, of any sort, is incompatible with a civil and democratic society and must be quashed whenever it raises its ugly head.

-2

u/Awful_McBad Aug 18 '22 edited Aug 19 '22

That’s exactly how some progressives behave too.

It doesn’t matter who’s exhibiting this behaviour, it’s gross.

Edit: I don't normally mention up/downvotes, but the people who are downvoting this are the specific kind of progressive/liberal that I'm talking about.

There's nothing wrong with being a liberal/progressive(or even a conservative for that matter). There is something wrong with being an asshole about your political views.