r/financialindependence • u/fidgit86 • 9d ago

What do you do that you earn six figures?

It seems like a lot of people make a lot of money and it seems like I’m missing out on something. So those of you that do, whats your occupation that pays so well?

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u/Phant82 9d ago

Musician (I promise).

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u/[deleted] 9d ago edited 8d ago

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u/spacetug 9d ago

Commercial arts unite! It's a special kind of fun/torture, trying to express someone else's creative vision. VFX here, just breaking into the 6 figures this year with minimal OT. Pay varies by a lot of factors, but there are a number of ways to get into the 100-200k range.

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u/[deleted] 9d ago edited 9d ago

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u/spacetug 9d ago

Most of this applies to VFX as well, except for the copyright/licensing stuff. If you're working on any sort of movie/tv etc with a proper production setup, they retain all rights to their content, and you sign over all rights to your work on delivery/payment. Some do want a work-for-hire agreement as well. Some places also prefer to hire you as an hourly contractor, even if you're a remote freelancer, rather than bidding prices per shot.

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u/Klutzy_Piccolo 9d ago

What kind of licensing do you use?

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u/ihopeicanforgive 9d ago

How do you find clients?

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u/[deleted] 9d ago

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u/ihopeicanforgive 9d ago

I wish I had the same luck doing freelance motion design work

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u/[deleted] 9d ago

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u/ihopeicanforgive 8d ago

Mine has been a similar situation- emergency last minute “we need this tomorrow” projects. Occasionally I’ll get some that aren’t as rushed.

I had mostly been getting clients via word of mouth, but honestly since covid it’s dried up. Luckily it’s not my main source of income or I’d be screwed

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u/Stunning-Bind-8777 9d ago

Mythic Quest has nice art department jokes

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u/lickmesenpai 9d ago

What part of the pipeline? I'm just a student getting into compositing, so im a bit curious. The salaries dont seem to be too great.

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u/spacetug 9d ago

I'm a mid/senior level compositor, about 5 years in. Senior cg artists, FX TDs, and other high level artists can all make this kind of money, while supervisors and producers can get more, although that does require some extra skills and often much more work.

Just starting out though, as a junior artist, pay is generally in the $15-25 range in the US and Canada, depending on the city. LA has the highest rates, but the cost of living is also higher. Vancouver used to be a great option, but at this point the pay hasn't kept up with CoL. Expect to start out doing a lot of boring grunt work, mostly paint, roto, muzzle flashes, etc. If you have talent and are able to learn and develop your skills, you can progress to more advanced and interesting work pretty quickly, either through promotions at the same studio, or by jumping around between different ones. Changing jobs multiple times per year is pretty common, although if you can find a studio that pays well and keeps a steady stream of work, it's nice to be able to stick around for longer.

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u/Singdownthetrail 9d ago

I’m currently an Instructional Designer and looking to add skills. Can you give me a run down of the software you use?

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u/spacetug 9d ago

Nuke is the main program I use, but also Houdini, Maya, Mocha Pro, and various other things occasionally. There are tons of programs out there for all kinds of specific uses, like tracking, texture painting, sculpting, and so on.

Nuke is the most common industry choice for compositing by far, followed by After Effects for simpler tasks. AE is layer based, like photoshop, which is easier to learn but can quickly become unmanageable with more complex tasks. Nuke uses a nodal workflow, so it's a little harder to learn but much, much more capable. For 3d, Maya is the most common choice, but 3DS Max is also still fairly popular, especially for games and FX work. Many larger studios use heavily customized versions of Maya, with in-house development teams creating tools to suit their needs.

There's a free version of Nuke that anyone can get to learn on, it has a few limitations though to prevent it from being used commercially. Maya I believe still offers a free educational version as well, but only if you have a .edu email address to sign up.

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u/Min7Flat5 9d ago

Another ID spotted in the wild! Well, I’m not an ID, but just finished an edtech degree in May. Many reasons why I like making music so much relate to what attracted me to the edtech program I sort of fell into.

Given there are lots of directions to go in with ID, I’m curious to know what your experience has been like.

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u/Singdownthetrail 7d ago

I’m also a former musician who became an ID during COVID. I’m really liking it. Since I had no ID education I had to gain access at the bottom of the rung (and pay scale). I make about $25 hour but I expect that to rise by the end of the year.

Overall, I like it a lot, the only drawback being that I don’t love 40 hour work weeks and have gained weight from being in front of a computer all day.

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u/ThinkIdeal 9d ago

How did you get into this field!! I’m currently a CPA but want to make a shift into the art world

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u/[deleted] 9d ago

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u/ThinkIdeal 9d ago

Oh man, this makes me sad that it’s a dying field. i wanted to do architecture when I was in school since it seems a happy compromise for my creative and analytical side. then I chickened out and took the safe route (accounting and finance). Now, four years later, I’m miserable at my job and dreaming of a job where I can draw or atleast be creative (even if its isnt my own inspired projects)

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u/wet_possum 9d ago

This is the best info right here. I had assumed you were making Rule 34 art but this is way more interesting!

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u/Wolkenflieger 9d ago

Being an artist is about your talent, not just the reason you make art. I'm an artist too of the 3D persuasion. Not everyone can do what you do because they're not all artists.

You built that skill over many years working on your own stuff. The foundation of your career is built on your pursuit of developing your talent. You are an artist, but an artist has to eat too.

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u/[deleted] 9d ago

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u/Wolkenflieger 9d ago edited 8d ago

You're welcome. Let me put it another way...

If someone wants to hire you, what job title is it for? Does the client consider you an artist of any stripe? An illustrator is a type of artist. Is 'artist' in your job title or would a reasonable person gather 'artist' from your job title?

Do other pro artists like me consider you to be an artist? Yes I do, lol.

Can a non-artist do what you do?

If you were to work on your own projects, would the output resemble 'art' to the reasonable layperson?

Does the talent/skill that allows you to earn money with your art also allow you to create anything of your own design? If it's the same skillset, then you're an artist. You're just an artist for someone else some of the time (earning money) and for yourself when the mood strikes. But, what you built to this point required all of the tenacity and training of an artist and an artist's brain.

I create 3D art. It's not always glamorous or exciting but it's what the project/client needs and it pays the bills. 'Artist' is in my job title.

When I create my own art on the side, it's full on art of my own design without any money changing hands. I made that 3D helmet in my avatar, but nobody paid me for that. The same talent that lets me make non-glamorous 3D is the same skill I use to create spaceships and Orcs. I use the same knowledge, the same 'flow state', the same discipline, the same sunk-costs as far as software and the whole array of 3D tools one needs for the work I do.

You're an artist. I think you're overthinking it or perhaps selling yourself short.

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u/[deleted] 8d ago edited 8d ago

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u/Wolkenflieger 8d ago

Man it's been fun talking to you. I get what you're saying and I appreciate your candor here. I think perhaps you're trying to create a harder delineation between 'artist' and your mercenary Wacom stylus. Perhaps you only consider it art if it's unsullied by commercialism or monetary gain.

Really, you can call yourself what you like and I get your point, even if we might agree to disagree. When I think of myself or my title.....I just think of my history of an artist being monetized in some way that pays the bills, but that's not the sum total of me. I had to work hard to monetize my art, but I don't define myself by the art I do for money.

When you think of something you did that could've been better, well you sound like every good artist ever! We're hard on ourselves. The good ones are. The bad ones probably don't give it a second thought, but that's why they're not as good. ;) I'm sure we've both had the pleasure of helping someone with their art via critical and friendly feedback, only to have them blow up at us. Like any good artist, you are your own worst critic, my friend. That couldn't be more 'artistic' in my book, lol.

And, you don't have to do art on the side outside of working hours to be a true artist. I don't always want to do 3D for fun when I'm not doing 3D for work. I'm tired. I want to look at something that isn't a monitor. I want to run or play guitar or hang out with my girlfriend....or just vegetate with a movie and my kitten purring in my lap. I get that. But, the urge to create my own work is always there but for that human experience of simply being tired from a full week of working for someone else. Ah, no wonder we're posting in a 'financial independence' sub, eh? That's the dream.

Cheers to you! Here's to the art....for fun, profit, and sometimes both!

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u/bluepaintbrush 9d ago

You guys are miracle workers

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u/brian_storm_art 9d ago

I mean, artists can do commissions, it's not unheard of

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u/[deleted] 9d ago

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u/Benkosayswhat 9d ago

Sounds like being a lawyer.

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u/[deleted] 9d ago

[deleted]

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u/Benkosayswhat 9d ago

I meant the whore part. No question regarding the quality of life. I’d rather paint my suit, basquiat style, and work in a studio any time. Instead, I spent my life studying rhetoric, a different type of art, and whore that out under terrible work conditions

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u/rizoeuf 9d ago

Are you doing freelance? Or do you work for someone?

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u/[deleted] 9d ago

[deleted]

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u/jeddrockwell 9d ago

How in the world do you make that kind of money as a freelance illustrator? Is it huge clients or tons of work or..? I am a senior designer, so related field and work along illustrators and we aren’t paying anyone that kind of money lol.

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u/[deleted] 9d ago

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u/Skunk-As-A-Drunk 9d ago

This man over here dropping some serious truth bombs. 🙌 amazing.

Anyone else reading his comments should take heed...he's an overnight success that took 25 years. Meaning, he put in the time, paid his dues, and he's now in an excellent position to cash it in.

You don't get into that position by luck. Takes hard work, dedication, time, and constant learning. Not everybody has the personality to go that far.

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u/DigitalAxel 9d ago

Trying to find a job as illustrator or concept artist. Nada in my area, so I must look remote.

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u/[deleted] 9d ago

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u/DigitalAxel 9d ago

Yeah, starting from nothing... never had a commission (aside from my non-related hobby) in my life. I begged my teachrs and advisors for advice but never got a real reply... now four months out I've got nothing.

Oof, my poor neglected IG is hardly used.

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u/[deleted] 9d ago

[deleted]

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u/DigitalAxel 8d ago

Well, got both those in some form.

For now I'm puttering along, flipping burgers in the meantime.

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u/germantree 9d ago

As someone who is transitioning from freelance post-pro in the film industry to freelance illustration, this makes me happy.

Do you mind telling us a bit about what kind of clients you have?

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u/[deleted] 9d ago

[deleted]

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u/germantree 9d ago

Are you involved in the design of the building or "just" the rendering? I'm a total layman in this field but I thought the architects themselves design the building in 3D these days. How is your final product being used?

Very interesting and thanks a ton for replying!

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u/[deleted] 9d ago edited 9d ago

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u/germantree 9d ago

Damn, I'm honestly humbled that someone with your effective hourly rate takes the time to provide such in-depth knowledge about this. I really want to see your work now! Thanks a lot, makes perfectly sense to me.

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u/[deleted] 9d ago

[deleted]

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u/germantree 8d ago

I'd love to see your work. Do you have a website?

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u/Ohigetjokes 9d ago

My kid is just starting an Illustration program at College (took a few years to get in) and has done a few little commission pieces for friends. Still, they're not really pulling in enough to cover tuition yet. Any advice?

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u/CitgoSign 9d ago

Plot twist: For Video games

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u/HxH101kite 9d ago

I actually knew a musician who has tracks in video games, I forget what she played I want to say it was the french horn.

Let me tell you she wasn't making 6 figures

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u/[deleted] 9d ago edited 1d ago

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u/IEatOats_ 9d ago

*software

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u/MilkMySpermCannon 9d ago

Software developer.

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u/[deleted] 9d ago

[deleted]

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u/Serasha 9d ago

What instrument do you play?

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u/Phant82 8h ago

I play keyboards and do a little bit of harmony vocal singing.

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u/Producer_Chris 9d ago

I’m also a musician. If you don’t mind working nights it can definitely be a lucrative career. Also as bonus I have the day time free to trade stocks for extra money

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u/Phant82 8d ago

… a skill I’d love to learn :)

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u/falco811 9d ago

Out of curiosity, what side of the music business are you in? I'm a musician as well.

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u/Phant82 9d ago

Sideman (edit: keyboard player) in nashville. I work mostly in recording sessions and touring. You?

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u/falco811 9d ago

I'm a bass player in the NJ/NY area. Mostly jobbing dates and musicals, but I also do some luthier work as well.

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u/NotJuniorBridgeman 9d ago

How does the compensation work, if you don't mind me asking?

Are you paid like an independent contractor, where you get paid like a flat rate for a gig? Or is it hourly? Do you get any royalties?

How many hours of work does it take as a musician to pull in six figures?

I have some friends in a HCOL that are professional musicians in the city orchestra. They don't make anywhere near six figures and supplement their income with teaching. (Which is pretty common for classical musicians. A lot of people pay for private violin, cello, etc. lessons.)

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u/[deleted] 9d ago edited 9d ago

I’m not this guy but I’m familiar with the industry as a former performing musician. Session gigs are hourly, and in Nashville that’s a couple Benjamins give or take. Gigs are usually a rate, either negotiated as part of an even split with the rest of the band members or as a rate for yourself if you’re sitting in. Tours run the gamut - OP probably has their night rate, probably a per diem on top of that.

In general though, tours run everywhere from just enough to make gas money to half a million for a show (probably more since that song came out tbh, and I know one group who asked €750k for a private performance in 2015 even though they’re American - the Euro is worth more).

How many hours of work does it take as a musician to pull six figures?

For 99% of musicians? Years. For OP, they’ll probably make around $175,000 this year if they’re in Nashville. For the top .01% of musicians, they hit a hundred racks around 7 January.

EDIT: the reason session musicians in particular get paid so well is solely due to their consistency. Yes, most of those guys also throw down in general, but you’ll make more money playing perfect quarter notes than you will a shitty rendition of a Mozart or Coltrane piece. Actually, you won’t make any money at all playing anything shitty, no matter how complex the piece.

When time is money, they need to know you can hit every single take like nails.

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u/Secondstrike23 9d ago

That’s something I never got studying music. My internal rhythm is just erratic for no apparent reason.

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u/LumberjackHotel 9d ago

Metronome, my dude.

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u/[deleted] 9d ago

Stop thinking about timing as time, and start thinking about it as space. It’s some super polytheoretical shit, but like, consider that time is simply man’s invention for measuring our movement through space. Now consider that you can feel space, but you can’t feel time.

I’m a percussionist as well, so it’s admittedly easier for us to feel space, since we have to move so much to play our instrument. But I’ve still felt it apply to the piano, which is why I think it could apply to other instruments

It’s a mind shift for sure, but hopefully that helps.

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u/Secondstrike23 8d ago

That’s a really interesting concept. I used to play piano and trumpet where you move a lot less but thinking about drums in terms of space is really interesting. The closest I’ve come to drums is the drum machine on the keyboard but unfortunately Theres just as much space between the keys as a piano lol.

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u/[deleted] 8d ago

What you can do instead, is move your upper body. That’s why so many professional pianists are so animated - they can feel their body moving through space, and that creates time for them. Don’t do it all weird, let it flow naturally, but yeah, that’s the move.

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u/Preambleguy 9d ago

“When time is money, they need to know you can hit every single take like nails.”

This, this is what I needed to hear. It drives my girlfriend nuts when I rehearse the same song (or rather the piano score for Hamilton: The Musical) for the 300th time. What I’m really doing is practicing consistency and quality. This’ll probably be my mantra for the rest of my music career lol.

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u/[deleted] 9d ago edited 9d ago

Glad I could help you out with that lol, although it seems like you certainly know exactly what you have to do to succeed. Keep it up.

By the way, I’ve been practicing Moving Pictures by Rush on drums for the last thirteen years. Show this to your girlfriend and remind her it could always be worse.

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u/Serasha 9d ago

I love that Hamilton is your practice score! Do you sing along?

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u/LegitosaurusRex 28 | 76% SR | 31% FIRE 9d ago

Top .01% of musicians still sounds like way too many to be making 5 million+ a year, lol...

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u/as_it_was_written 9d ago

There are only so many session musicians out there. 1 in 10 000 making that much doesn't seem too surprising to me.

Especially if you consider that a lot of the top earners have likely been around for long enough (and made good enough business decisions) to also have some royalties coming in from various projects.

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u/[deleted] 9d ago

Well, and to be fair, the .01% of earning musicians don’t earn their money through sessions (MAYBE a handful, like Vinnie Colaiuta, and I’m not even sure he makes that kind of bread). They earn their money through royalties, streaming, and sales. When I talk about the .01% of earners I’m talking about your Biebers, your Drakes, your Khaleds, maybe heavily touring bands with large followings such as the Dave Matthews Band. It’s exceedingly rare to earn that kind of bread through sessions alone, although when you’re the session guy for names like those, it can happen.

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u/as_it_was_written 9d ago

It’s exceedingly rare to earn that kind of bread through sessions alone, although when you’re the session guy for names like those, it can happen.

Yeah I'm not in the industry, but my thinking was that it mainly happens through royalties. I'm not sure how common it is for session musicians to get work-for-hire jobs vs ones where they're included as a performer, but if nothing else I'd expect people's side project royalties to start adding up over the years. (And these are the highest earners we are talking about, so they will likely also have gotten luckier than others along the way, and/or made better business decisions.)

As an aside, the distinction between all musicians that make money and session musicians is kinda interesting to me. I would not be surprised if the lowest earners in the top .01% of session musicians made more than the lowest earners in the top .01% of all money- making musicians.

Sure, the ceiling is much higher if you're not a session musician, but the floor is also lower and much more crowded. The barrier of entry is just so much lower, and there's an incredible amount of people out there just barely making a bit of money with their music.

I'm inclined to agree with the other commenter when we're talking all money-making musicians - I think the Drakes, etc. that you mentioned are rarer than 1 in 10 000 by quite a bit.

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u/[deleted] 9d ago

To your final point, I think if you knew how rare it was for people to actually make any semblance of a living in music, that might slightly alter your opinion. For instance, I live in Tennessee’s neighbor to the north, and I’d be shocked if there were five hundred people in this state who make a living performing music (teaching music is a different story but nobody wants that life).

In terms of earnings I don’t tend to separate session and touring musicians, largely because there’s usually at least some overlap. A session drummer will tour for the right music or money, and vice versa. I’m not sure how it breaks down otherwise.

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u/[deleted] 9d ago edited 9d ago

I’m talking about the .01% of performing musicians. Which to be fair, I didn’t explicitly clarify that. Out of all musicians, including those who don’t perform publicly, you are absolutely correct. However, out of musicians who perform publicly, I think my statement might be closer to accurate.

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u/Phant82 8h ago

Very good insight here.

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u/radioactiveb 9d ago

Every studio handles this differently but generally if you're the composer, you get contracted based off the length of the music. You get your name on the credits. It's rare but possible to be a full time composer with a studio. Usually if that happens, it's because you are actually hired as an audio designer, who happens to spend a portion of time also composing music for the game.

If you are a musician playing in an orchestra, the orchestra is contracted, so you are paid however your orchestra normally pays you. The orchestra is credited in the game credits, and sometimes the individual musicians as well, but usually it is the name of the group.

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u/Phant82 8h ago

My income is a mix of independent contractor (1099) and employee (W2). There are also some back end royalties that I see about twice a year. For recording sessions, there is a general rate of $200 - $500 per 3-hr session depending on what I'm working on. For touring, I have different day rates depending on whether it's a show day, travel day, rehearsal day etc.

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u/Min7Flat5 9d ago

Would definitely interested in hearing what your experience gigging in one of the major circuits has been like. Is 6 figure-work gigging/MD’ing somewhat common to come by in Nashville or LA if you’re well connected? Or is it more of a rarity

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u/sawcebox 9d ago

My husband is a relatively well-connected musician out of LA, has worked on things heard by massive audiences, and he’s going to finally break 60k this year after doing this full time for 7 years now. Six-figures is not the the norm, and anyone who says it is is in a bubble of only a specific kind of success musicians can have.

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u/[deleted] 9d ago

Not OP but knowledgeable enough to answer.

The answer is no, six-figure musician work is not common anywhere on this planet, although is probably far more common in Nashville as far as per capita goes than any other city in the country, perhaps the world.

You did get one thing right: connections are just about everything that luck doesn’t bring you. And in Nashville, where many music manufacturers are based, connections aren’t the most difficult thing to come by.

I’d said it elsewhere, I’ll say it here: 99% of musicians take years to make a hundred racks. Commenter in question will likely pull between 150 and 2. The top .01% of musicians hit a hundred racks the first week of the year (not from gigging that’s for damn sure)

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u/iamabigpotatoboy 9d ago

I'm a bass player in LA. a lot of the big pop MDs make over 6 figures EASILY. as for touring musicians, it really depends on the gig. I know some touring guys on big arena tours that kinda make shit money (60k), and some smaller tours (theaters etc.) who make great money (100k+). every gig requires different musicians and value their musicians differently. I've been playing/touring with a new up and coming artist lately and hopefully by next year will make close to 80k with him 🤞

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u/Phant82 8h ago

Good question. I'm not sure. I make 6 figures as a recording session / touring keyboardist, but I also have friends who play cover gigs in downtown Nashville bars, and because of the high volume of tourism, they also make 6 figures. Mostly accumulating cash tips. So I suppose it's possible, in Nashville at least, to make good money as a player in many different avenues.

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u/[deleted] 9d ago

Yeeeeaaaahhhhh session musicians have it made (and are also fucking rock solid)

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u/iamabigpotatoboy 9d ago

I wonder if we know each other, I'm a bass player in LA but in Nashville a lot. good to see some of us touring musicians can be making six figures.

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u/triplexthrowaway 9d ago

Christ dude making 6 figures in Nashville playing music can’t get too much better

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u/Phant82 8h ago

It can often feel like a job, but a comment like yours reminds me to appreciate the situation. Thanks for saying that.

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u/jk3us 9d ago

I gig on the side and make 6 figures, if you count the cents.

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u/trubbub 9d ago

Same here, sometimes I have been known to make 6 figures. Dollars are figures, right?

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u/theroboghost 9d ago

Musician here too! Not quite to 6 figures yet, but was able to quit my day job recently. So getting there!

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u/Phant82 8h ago

Awesome congrats!