r/financialindependence • u/fidgit86 • 9d ago

What do you do that you earn six figures?

It seems like a lot of people make a lot of money and it seems like I’m missing out on something. So those of you that do, whats your occupation that pays so well?

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u/golfmd2 9d ago

Physician as well. A lot of us are terrible with money, including myself up to 10 years ago

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u/MrMudPhud 9d ago

Trying to explain some really basic shit on r/residency is like pulling teeth.

Like, dude you're 34 years old and 4 years out of med school, you make $68K/year working 90 hours/week, you have minimal retirement savings, and you have $377K in non-tax deductible debt that basically halves your salary just to pay down the interest. Why is it inconceivable to you that if you made all these sacrifices in another profession, you might come out ahead financially?

Such smart people and still no one has taught them that W2 income is not how you build wealth.

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u/[deleted] 9d ago edited 1d ago

[deleted]

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u/flashbang217 9d ago

Financially you'll be fine. I started my first attending job less than 10 years ago with six figure debt and now have over a couple million in net worth. I'm also in a lower paying field, internal medicine.

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u/Bricknaaaa 9d ago

Guy in my class started at age 35, after practicing law for 9 years and forgoing a cush and cozy position at a law firm.

I think it’s feasible, but you’ve got to really want it. As my cousin told me: if you can’t see yourself doing anything else, pursue medicine. If you can see yourself doing anything else, you should probably do that instead.

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u/RoyalFail6 9d ago

You’ll be fine if you’re financially literate and know to invest your money. Choose your medical school wisely, loans and the few years after school as a resident will be brutal. Also, don’t compare yourself to others as they could be making serious mistakes, have rich parents, or have scholarships. Many new doctors see that first big paycheck and start buying those new cars, home, jewelry, etc. instead of looking at that loan amount.

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u/PurpleBlueTeal 9d ago

If you do choose to pursue medicine, I would just recommend being very thoughtful when picking your specialty. If you are going to give up a decade of your prime earning years and take on substantial debt, then you really need to consider what the salary range is for the specialties you are deciding between. Most primary care physicians I know here in the South who work full time make $200s -$350s. Most of my specialist friends make $400s-$600s. I do know a hand full of specialist who make 7 figures annually, mostly surgical specialties. However, the physicians I know who make the most are the ones who own large group practices, employ other physicians, and (eventually) sell to private equity.

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u/[deleted] 9d ago edited 1d ago

[deleted]

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u/PurpleBlueTeal 9d ago

Yes, definitely true. You need to do well in order to get into the more competitive specialties, and those are usually the specialities that pay very well. Studying consistently for your boards early on, developing a genuine relationship with a mentor in your specialty of interest who can write you a really strong recommendation letter, participating in research and having a really strong externship at a residency program you are interested in can all help.

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u/G00bernaculum 9d ago

Financially yes. Socially, well...

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u/Lets_Hookup_in_LA 9d ago

Such smart people and still no one has taught them that W2 income is not how you build wealth.

I’m not a doctor, just a dumb audio engineer, but are you saying it’s better to work under the table?

I don’t know where you live but here in California working as a 1099 is an excellent way to halve your income. Thankfully most media companies I work for pay us through payroll companies.

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u/talks_about_league_ 9d ago

They're saying just cus you get paid XX,XXX more in a year than (whatever other job) doesn't make a damn bit of difference because you are paying 30k+ in interest on the loans it took you to get this job.

there are jobs that pay well and dont start you off 10 years and 400k behind the pack

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u/Lets_Hookup_in_LA 9d ago

Got that part, but wasn’t sure what “W2 income” means.

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u/talks_about_league_ 9d ago

I think he just meant it as "the form that lists your pay that year in a vacuum", it looks good on paper but in practice it sucks. As a figure of speech rather than a literal interpretation.

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u/Lets_Hookup_in_LA 9d ago

Too bad investing your money in literally anything makes it instantaneously disappear. Once I tried to get into crypto. A client I was recording offered to pay me triple if I invested in crypto, so I obliged. Less than 24 hours later every coin we purchased and every exchange we used was wiped from the face of the earth. No recourse. Just a week’s pay down the toilet.

I remember the only time in my life I actually made enough where I had a little extra to save, this was in 2010, so I asked my father for some stock market advice, as he worked for Merril Lynch for more than 30 years.

All my savings were gone in less than a week.

On paper, investing sounds great, but unless you went to school for it, it’s actually really fucking horrible and a great way to lose everything.

Quite frankly, only qualified individuals should be allowed. I had to take 2 tests and get a license to drive my car, I had to take 2 tests and get a safety card to get my gun, but I can just throw it all away in an instant because some guy on reddit says so?

Dumb.

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u/talks_about_league_ 9d ago

U replied to the wrong person

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u/Lets_Hookup_in_LA 9d ago

oh well, too late to give a shit now

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u/Sensitive_Public 9d ago

I'm sorry but you should have invested wisely. Like this is 100 percent your fault man. I've been investing outside of a 401k for little over 3 years with a profit of 30k. Not hard to do.

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u/Lets_Hookup_in_LA 9d ago

I’ve had anywhere from $30k-$100k in medical bills per year for the last 15 years. No. lol.

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u/Sensitive_Public 9d ago

That's you though man.

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u/Punchingbird 9d ago

What isn’t w2. Things like owning a business, real estate, YouTube, Instagram influencer etc. Pretty much anything that allows you to earn money even while not actively working. Passive income.

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u/Lets_Hookup_in_LA 9d ago

Ahhhh. Allllllll the different things I’ve lost thousands and thousands on. I’ll stick to working, where the worst that can happen is I get fired, which has happened to me once in the last 30 years.

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u/SordidCanary 9d ago

I feel like he's using it as a synonym for job.

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u/p00rkitten 9d ago

I think they’re talking about investing.

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u/Tabenes 9d ago

W-2 income basically means your normal income a person makes through a job.

Other forms of income could come from the stock market, or your side hustle.

For physicians, a side hustle could be independent medical reviews, or testifying as an expert in court trials.

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u/djgizmo 9d ago

Means investment income is a better means of income over w2 income.

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u/seanspicer2222 9d ago

Lol I'm pretty sure you can't work under the table as a doctor, I'm not quite sure how that would work.

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u/Lets_Hookup_in_LA 9d ago

You just show up and ask the manager if you can doct for them.

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u/Drifter_Lux 9d ago

There’s more to it, though, like looking them square in the eye, a firm handshake, and reminding them you go to the same church.

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u/WoodenYogurtcloset86 9d ago

There’s locums, per diem

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u/subzerothrowaway123 9d ago

How do you build wealth then?

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u/elantra6MT 9d ago

Capital gains

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u/subzerothrowaway123 9d ago

So investing? But you need money to invest and so that money would from W2 income right?

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u/elantra6MT 9d ago

Yeah but I think it’s more about the timing of the money. 10 years x $100k is a lot better than 7 years no salary then 3 years $333k. The taxes are a lot lower when the W2 income is spread out and you get exponential growth on your investments. $250k/year as a physician is probably equivalent to $150k in other jobs that didn’t put you through $300-400k debt and made you wait 7-8 years for an income. If you know how hard it is to get into and through med school/residency, then you can imagine that those same people could have been successful in other fields too.

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u/subzerothrowaway123 9d ago

I see what you are saying. You are arguing about the time cost of the delayed income. This is the same argument I have seen when someone showed that a UPS driver earns more than a doctor due to the same factors you mentioned. This is only true in the short term. In your example, I can use someone who makes 100k and saves 20% for 20k a year investing at 10%. A doctor can make 250k and save 20% for 50k a year also investing at 10%. The 100k earner will come out ahead initially however the 250k earner will eclipse the 100k earner after 12 years.

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u/elantra6MT 9d ago

Just make sure you’re factoring in the growth for investments/med school debt (maybe 5-10% a year)

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u/subzerothrowaway123 9d ago

Yes there are more nuances. Med school debt average is 250k. Engineering debt average is 25k (per google). Also 3 years of residency pay at 50-60k. The math still favors the doctor. Also physician salaries have more growth, higher ceilings. The highest earners are in their 40s-50s. I don't think engineering careers continue to grow the same way. I think I see that you are an intern? I am 10 years into practice. You are proabably graduating with more debt than we did a decade ago, but being a physician is still overall more lucrative. Both in terms of income and also in wealth building. I am only a pediatrician but I am well ahead of all my engineering friends.

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u/elantra6MT 9d ago edited 9d ago

I’m sure you have more finance experience than I do — I guess what I feel is important to emphasize to hard working high schoolers and college freshman is that the salaries online aren’t the full picture. A doc earning $200k and an engineer earning $200k are different — the engineer is probably $0.7M richer ($300k med school cost, $400k lost income over 7-8 years). Graduating near the top of your undergrad (3.7+ GPA) with a lot of extracurriculars and then working 60-65 hrs/week for 7-8 years after college will get you pretty far in your career. As a doctor you’ll end up middle of the pack.

Overall I think being a doctor is a great financial decision, and I am confident I’ll outearn most of my undergrad friends (as it sounds like you are doing!)

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u/SnowmanRandom 9d ago

The salary shoots up really quickly. If you take some extra shifts that student loan will be repaid in 5 years tops.

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u/kawi-bawi-bo 9d ago

Also hospitals I've worked for never have 401k matching. I think it's easy to get swayed by the salary numbers especially after finishing up residency at meager pay

source; have been working for 10+ years now and made terrible choices in the beginning lol

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u/NOBLOWWWW 9d ago

Your comment doesn’t really apply to me except for the w2 income not building wealth part…. Can you elaborate on that? Do you mean you have to invest it?

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u/MrMudPhud 9d ago

Basically yes, and for a long time. Also, the richest people don't build their wealth through labor. Any list of "top earning professions" is filled with professions that don't even touch the top 1% on average. Everyone with wealth is earning through appreciating assets.

$1 invested in your 20s turns into $10. $1 invested in your 30s turns into $5.

Then, a lot of people make huge sacrifices early in life (when investing is important) to earn a higher salary later. Doctors are a prime example. MD/PhDs (like me) basically hate money and quality of life.

Personally I think something about making a regular salary makes people less responsible with money. It automates the whole process. You don't think about the money. On average, people spend 93% of their income. So a lot of people making high regular W2 income just get in the habit of "spend it once you get it." It doesn't matter if you make $200, 300, or 400k if you aren't leveraging that into appreciating assets.

Also taxes. Taxes fuck W2 earners way harder than basically any other form of earning. Taxed before it has a chance to compound.

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u/Orend2 9d ago

Highly recommended blog - physician on FIRE

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u/Ramanujin666 9d ago

Have you heard of the white coat investor

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u/golfmd2 9d ago

I recently found his site. Like it

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u/stabmasterarson10 9d ago

I read an awesome book a while back "the millionaire next door" which discusses this. If I remember correctly doctors generally speaking are bad with money for a few reasons. Highly paid doctors are paid well for their health care skills which often doesn't involve sales, budgeting, or other financial knowledge so these skills are underdeveloped compared to other high paying careers. Everyone thinks all doctors make "doctor money" so there's a lot of pressure from friends, family and spouses to live a lavish lifestyle. And of course student debt can be quite high. I highly recommend the book.

Most importantly thank you for your service doctors and nurses!

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u/golfmd2 9d ago

I’m reading it now. Written in the ‘90s but I think the general idea is valid. Many physicians get taken advantage of by financial advisors and insurance salesmen as well. I know I did. Had the whole life policy and all. Don’t get me started on family with their hands out because I’m the “ rich” doctor.

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u/violetsandviolas 9d ago

My BIL graduated medical school about 22 years ago. He joined the Indian Health Service. Starting salary—20 years ago—was $80,000 plus 100% loan repayment. He was able to retire comfortably last year in his mid-50’s. Now he does part-time/locum work just for fun. My daughter is in med school on an Army scholarship. It pays 100% of her tuition, fees, and housing. When she graduates she’ll be commissioned as a Captain, and she’ll only owe the Army four years of work, for which she’ll get a reasonable salary, and then she can move to whatever practice she chooses, with no debt.

So the moral of this story is, oddly, that one way to do well in medicine is to do public health/military work.

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u/GirlsLikeStatus 36F | 37% SR | 50% to FI 9d ago

Can you tell me what helped you make the switch? My SO is a physician is also terrible with money but we come from such different perspectives it’s hard to get it. I’ve made some headway but could use your perspective.

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u/golfmd2 9d ago

I owe a lot to an ENT friend of mine. He used to be a big spender, had a financial advisor leaching 2% off him, etc. He had left for a few years and when he returned he was different. Happier and more content. We got to talking and basically showed me the light in respects to money and the various leeches in this world that try to part you from it. Also, get off the spending/buying compulsion that’s only feeding a temporary dopamine rush and pursue what’s lasting in this life. Money helps but without mental and physical health, one has nothing.

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u/GirlsLikeStatus 36F | 37% SR | 50% to FI 8d ago

Thanks, maybe i can find him a mentor at the hospital. The guy plugging in his Leaf to the light post and not the bro that just bought a Bugatti.

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u/bravestar3030 9d ago

one of the easiest way to know if a doctor is good with money is to see if they are incorporated or declaring taxes as self employed. I'll let you guess which are the dumb ones (Financially speaking)