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u/Csantana 17d ago
This also reminds me of something.
If The Two Towers was a bad film, if it edited bad or poorly acted or a bunch of other things, people would point to this moment as proof. They would say it represents the filmmakers not understanding the characters or the source material or something.
"Can you believe Peter HACKson had Legolas shooting arrows while surfing on a shield? SO unrealistic. Maybe he should have read the books instead of watching action movies like Point Break!"
Of course, the movies are good and the moment is fun so it doesn't matter. But I think it shows that it's all in the execution.
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u/Tifter2 17d ago
This is a really interesting point, and one that I’m glad is entirely hypothetical. As someone who loves both the books and movies I find it really fun to spot the differences between them
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u/wizkaleeb 17d ago
Lol I'm trying to picture the multiple pages Tolkien would've used to describe Legolas surfing a shield while picking off orcs and even killing one with the shield when he dismounts
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u/gaerat_of_trivia 16d ago edited 16d ago
“legolas with such speed and grace threw the uruk shield upon the ground nearest to the beginning of the hewn stone stairs of helms deep. after a running start he leapt and landed onto the shield, sending him down the stairs with a wall of the keep to his back. he was able to draw and loose 5 arrows, each striking their target. when the length of the stairs was spent, the shield was sent forth further after he dismounted, striking an uruk-hai warrior, killing him” appendix 69b- “gimli later said it was really sick and badass when telling the journeys of the war of the ring whilst in his great halls of the glittering caves”
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u/TheMightyTywin 16d ago
Could you please elaborate on the history of those stairs?
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u/gaerat_of_trivia 16d ago
“during the war with wolf and helms retreat there in the winter, the stairs were terribly worn and in disarray since the last use of the keep. when ordering the refurbishing of this staircase in particular; he required that a 45 degree angle be cut on each corner of each stair to allow for heavy loads to be easier transported up and down on a board that would be pushed and pulled with its respective load”
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u/TheMightyTywin 16d ago
So legolas was able to notice that these stairs in particular would be great for surfing? Or did he know the history beforehand?
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u/DirePantsX 17d ago
Ok gandalf
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u/gandalf-bot 17d ago
Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement.
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u/uglypenguin5 17d ago
Exactly. I can't watch the movies with my mom because she won't shut up about ever single inconsistency. Although I do agree with her about Faramir. The movies butchered Faramir's character
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u/WhiteWolfofRivia0914 16d ago
On the one hand, Tolkien book snobs are some of the most insufferable people I’ve met and it gives me great pleasure to hear them complain and flat out tell them that I prefer the movies over the books (which I’m not saying just to piss them off, I genuinely like the movies better).
On the other hand, I have my own book series that I will bitch and moan for hours about because of small book details that are wrong. Watching Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix is a legitimate trial every time I watch it, because it makes me so mad as a massive fan of the book. But you can’t watch all of the movies and just skip one, so I suffer through it whenever I do a rewatch.
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u/stillinthesimulation 17d ago
Its also an earned moment. The whole sequence leading up to it has mounting tension so when it happens it almost feels like a release. I’d say the Oliphant take down in ROTK is a little less effective because it comes during a moment when the heroes are winning the battle not losing.
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u/Rumbleroar1 17d ago
I think exact reason why Legolas breaking laws of physics did not bother people in LOTR but it became a meme when he did it in the hobbit.
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u/r43n 17d ago
Honestly I know people who were bothered by it and this and the Mumakil scene are two of my least favorite scenes in the movies. But OP is right that the rest of the movies are so fucking good that it doesn't matter.
Also what Legolas is doing there is theoretically physically possible and it's two scenes within 2 movies, Hobbit does this more often and more excessively.
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u/River46 17d ago
well riding a shield seems a bit more plausible than the falling rubble staircase.
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u/supremekimilsung Éowyn Simp 17d ago
I agree. It was unrealistic but acceptable and well-executed with the shield surfing, but climbing up a falling staircase looked way too artificial and wasn't well-executed at all.
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u/Red-Freckle 16d ago
The CG has something to do with it but I think people at least subconsciously know that massive stones freefalling but yet somehow moving slow enough to run on completely defies physics.. unless he's the Flash. I don't particularly like the surfboard scene but if surfing/snowboarding weren't a thing we know of then that scene would seem like an awesome and plausible way to get down the stairs as fast as possible.
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u/Rumbleroar1 16d ago
Now I'm imagining Legolas trying to run up the falling stairs and he just pushes the rock down and bonks his head on the second one, then falls unconscious.
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u/platinum_spreadsheet 16d ago
So annoying to imagine the filmmakers saying “Fans loved the Legolas surfboard bit in the LotR trilogy, let’s put more of that kind of thing in The Hobbit”.
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u/derekguerrero 16d ago
And controlling the movements of a troll by sticking a sword on its brain.
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u/WhiteWolfofRivia0914 16d ago
Agreed. Sure you could argue it was a bit silly in LOTR (I think it’s awesome, but I can see the argument), but the Hobbit just cranked it up to pure ridiculousness
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u/mahoujosei100 17d ago
I've definitely seen people complain about Legolas running on falling rocks or something in The Hobbit movies. (IDK, I didn't see the last one.) I recall him walking on top of a layer of fresh snow in the first book though, so elves not giving a shit about physics is canon.
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u/PM_ME_YOUR_CUTE_PUSS 16d ago
iirc in the books, elves are kind of like birds: weak and light and thin-boned compared to men. At Caradhras it's boromir and aragorn who clear the snow and later on it's those two who carry the boats, because men are the strongest of all the races.
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u/kidicarus89 16d ago
The snow walking was done pretty subtly though. I’m not a fan of surfing Legolas.
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u/_I_must_be_new_here_ 17d ago
Yeeees! I see it all the time. People want to look smart, it' annoying as hell.
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u/MattmanDX Uruk-hai 17d ago
A lot of people who think the films are good overall (like me) might still complain about scenes like this in particular. They come across as popcorn-flick shlocky action scenes in an otherwise highbrow and artistic story
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u/ArthurBonesly 17d ago
Here's the thing everybody gets wrong with nit-picks and why "that's just nit-picking" doesn't excuse criticism: audiences will allow a lot of bullshit if the material is actually good. People only start nit-picking because the material isn't good enough to keep their attention in the moment.
This is the same reason fan communities embrace potholes, goofs and awkward line deliveries years later as otherwise "nit-picks" become enduring parts of the whole that said communities only picked up/embraced after building a love for the original material. For example, nobody looks at the Storm Trooper bonking his head in Star Wars and bemoans that "It SuCkS nOw!" It becomes another thing to love and show new initiates into the fandom.
This is probably the biggest reason I hate studios editing out/reworking material after release. They're destroying the longevity of their own product by "fixing" variables that build community.
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u/IMFlorecentFace 17d ago
This point is also kinda funny bc in that same hypothetical universe where TT is a piece of shit, hacked out movie; people would also probably point to the scene as proof that actually it's good bc Legolas is awesome and its super badass. Like I can see the boring, confusing, visual mush battle that Helms deep could have beven under different circumstances (which is honestly most battle sequences in more recent films) and then theres this cool scene of Legolas being awesome and its the one thing in the entire sequence that has impact and meaning. Like yeah it's kinda dumb and stupid but I noticed it among all of the pointless stabbing and yelling and fighting and not knowing where everyone is and not understanding why this battle is even taking place
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u/KryptikMitch 16d ago
It never felt out of place to me because of how well the characters were portrayed all throughout. Sometimes you gotta just let something slide because its cool.
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u/noradosmith 16d ago
When you love a character enough and have seem them genuinely struggling, you can forgive a silly moment.
In the context of the dialogue before the battle ("I was wrong to despair"), it shows, together with his competing with Gimli, that friends are there to make each other forget about the deadly danger and stakes and just try to have a bit of fun before the world ends.
Point being is that the skateboarding is actually part of a character redemption arc. It feels good in that moment because you know he is in the zone, instead of in despair as he was before.
By the time he's single handedly taken out one of the Mumakil the stakes are raised so high at that point that a bit of light relief is needed.
Whereas the hobbit there was very little care or thought put into the gimmicky moments. The only saving grace is the source material was also not the most sophisticated.
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u/fleuridiot 17d ago
Yea, but Legolas is magic af and by canon not bound to what's "realistically" possible. Same with the oliphaunt tusk scene. Maybe hypothetical haters should re-read the books and have a little vision...
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u/TheMadcapLlama 17d ago
I love the idea of someone complaining that shield-surfing is unrealistic on a movie about a magical ring, wizards and elves.
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u/LuberLibreTTV 17d ago
This is such a washed argument. We want realism within the rules of the universe we are presented. Elves, particularly Legolas, have incredible dexterity, balance and reaction time. So having him pull off moves like that or jumping all over elophants is whatever. But if he started flying around through the air like ironman, shooting laser beams out of his eyes, you wouldn't just say "ah well it's fantasy, why complain?"
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u/Royal_Reality Ecthelion the Fountain 16d ago
Well I'm gonna go and say this is actually similar to my dnd rule of cool experiences some of my dms did allowed some weird shit happened and it was so shitty that after some time I left the table and more few of my dms allowed something weird to be happened and all of us got excited and laughed really hard and had best time of our campaign so what I'm saying is if story is good than rule of cool is cool but if story is bad rule of cool is just weird
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u/greenrangerguy 16d ago
It also works for the other way round too. Movies people hate (Star Wars last Jedi for example) don't have the epic moments remembered. Like when poe takes out all the guns on the star destroyer while pulling a fucking handbrake turn in an X-Wing.
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u/luurankokuningas 17d ago
My friend, while seeing The Two Towers for the first time, asked me if that scene was in the book
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u/wizkaleeb 17d ago
Imagine spending 10 minutes reading the multiple pages of Tolkien describing this scene
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u/applehead1776 16d ago
The orcs break into song describing this terrible scene
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u/indyK1ng 16d ago
Am I the only one who skips the songs in the books? Whenever I try reading them I keep trying to put them to a tune which just leaves me frustrated.
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u/PenisButtuh 16d ago
In a rendition of the audiobook that I'm listening to, the reader sings them to a tune if you really want one
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u/codymiller_cartoon 17d ago
Link does the same thing
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u/Witch_King_ 17d ago
HUH. Never thought about it before, but that might be an inspiration for shield-surfing.
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u/Schlabonmykob 17d ago
"no-scoping orcs with his arrows" so shooting a bow?
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u/Tbrou16 17d ago
Yeah, I didn’t realize bow scopes were so prevalent in medieval fantasy lore
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u/cubelith 17d ago
I mean, he's definitely hipfiring that bow. You ADS by putting the string to your cheek, and he's not doing that
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u/ArtsyCats 17d ago
I didn’t realize what subreddit this was and thought Bernie was saying Legolas was surfing on the twin towers and I was very confused
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u/Madhighlander1 17d ago
Technically all arrows are no-scoped.
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u/Tbrou16 17d ago
Not necessarily for compound bows
If Legolas had that thing, they wouldn’t have needed Frodo to take on the burden of the One Ring
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u/DocHyperion 17d ago
He could’ve tied the ring on an arrow and shot that shit into mount doom. Roll the credits
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u/Gandalf_The_3rd 17d ago
Then he misses by a couple of yards and all of the sudden Sauron takes over everything
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u/Go_For_Broke442 16d ago
depends if iron sights count as no scoping or not.
even recurve and long bows bows have an iron sight system you can add, whioe compound bows commonly use fiber optic sights.
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u/ISpyM8 17d ago
And then there’s the fucking bridge scene where he’s fighting Bolg in Battle of the Five Armies. I don’t even wanna talk about that shit.
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u/communityneedle 17d ago
At least the crazy stuff he did in the LOTR movies was well executed and looked good. When I saw that bridge scene I just started laughing; it's so bad
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u/Far_Buddy8467 17d ago
Speaking of which who is the elf guy in helms deep that Aragon holds as he is dying
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u/Michaelbirks 17d ago
An actor from Shortland Street.
Wait... that doesn't narrow things down.
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u/Far_Buddy8467 17d ago
I'm sorry I'm about to rewatch so I know the guys name
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u/Michaelbirks 17d ago
Haldir of Lórien, the actor qas Craig Parker.
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u/Far_Buddy8467 17d ago
Yes who is he in the lore rewatching the fellowship, just curious whom the character was
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u/Michaelbirks 17d ago
He's the Lothlorien war captain, although specifically the character may be a Jackson insert.
The party meets him when they escape from Moria at the end of Fellowship.
His role in Helms Deep is more Jackson. In the books, IIRC, it was the sons of Elrond who led the elven contingent. In the movie it was this Haldir.
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u/Far_Buddy8467 16d ago
So he isn't really in the books, he is mostly for the movies and what is IIRC
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u/Michaelbirks 16d ago
My apologies.
IIRC: If I recall correctly.
I honestly do not recall whether this particular elf is in the books. Same name or not, he's the elf who claims "and a dwarf breathes so loudly, we could shoot him in the dark", or something to that effect.
He may be at Helms deep in the book, too, but the role of leaders of the contingent are Elrond's sons, not this guy.
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u/dilly123456 17d ago
For the record they were Uruk-hai, different than orcs, but otherwise, he’s right you know.
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u/TJF588 17d ago
I have r/SandersForPresident in my feed (o, those halcyon days…), and didn’t check header or sub before reading. Genuinely r/Unexpected but a welcome one.
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u/Saladar19 17d ago
Wait was this an actual tweet?
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u/Saladar19 17d ago
That is a tweet right because i wouldnt knos as i dont use twitter
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u/CertainlyNotWorking 17d ago
Here is the tweet. The full tweet is:
Universal health care and tuition-free college aren’t radical. They already exist in other nations. Here’s what’s radical:
Allowing giant corporations like Amazon to pay nothing in federal income taxes and giving fossil fuel companies billions in subsidies to destroy the planet.
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u/comicalrut 17d ago
Bernie sucks
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u/nights234 17d ago
Damn straight. A snake oil salesman
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u/BlackNOrange89 17d ago
Just curious why do you think that? I’m not a supporter of his but his actions and beliefs going all the way back to the 60s Civil Rights Era show that he’s been ideologically consistent and straightforward for decades.
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u/omicron-7 17d ago
Well he's a populist. He acts like his word is the will of the people and he can never fail, it was rigged against him by the establishment. You know, a moron.
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u/Margidoz 17d ago
His policy positions like universal healthcare objectively do align with a majority of the country, and the neoliberal establishment definitely has tried it's best to discredit him
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u/Equivalent_Hurry_813 17d ago edited 17d ago
He's consistently been a pathetic communist
Edit: Cope harder, Berniebots
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u/BlackNOrange89 17d ago edited 17d ago
Gotcha. Snake oil salesman confused me. Is it fair to say you disagree with his political beliefs more so than his tactics?
Edit: I’m not trying to trick you into saying anything positive about Bernie or anything. I’m genuinely curious if you think he’s been trying to pull the wool over on people with any dishonest tactics and, if so, how. He’s always seemed like a pretty straightforward guy to me :/
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u/Equivalent_Hurry_813 17d ago
It is fair to say, although I didn't make the original snake oil comment. I guess I can respect that he has remained committed to his ideology through the years, I just think its a garbage ideology. He seems genuinely convinced about his beliefs as far as I can tell
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u/Margidoz 17d ago
When did he call for a stateless moneyless society, exactly?
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u/16yYPueES4LaZrbJLhPW 16d ago
I hate that people think Bernie was a Communist. Pretty sure he's still a capitalist, but believes in some socialist policies that go beyond social programs. Democratic socialism is just our current system with labor rights, and that's not even stepping into the Socialist ideology, it's just borrowing from it.
He'd have to go way past that and eliminate the federal state and currency to be a Communist, but last I checked, that wasn't in his campaign or his policies.
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u/nights234 17d ago
Extremely untrue. For one thing he is a proponent of $15 minimum wage yet didn’t pay he workers nowhere near that amount. Loves to scream millionaire and billionaires and top 1% do not pay their fair share, which is true, but as soon as he became one he only talked about the billionaires and .1%. He paid percentage wise less than me and I make far less than him. He complains about climate change and how people need to do more yet he owns a private jet and 3 houses. He’s just a Marxist loser who has done nothing in his life yet expects you to do as he says not as he does.
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u/Used_Comedian2098 17d ago edited 17d ago
Free Tuition comes at an extraordinary cost.
At a time when more and more degrees are deemed useless.
https://news.yahoo.com/north-korean-defector-says-going-130747688.html
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u/JenStarcaller 17d ago
I dare say the US is richer than most of Europe, yet most of western Europe has universal healthcare and free tuitions including college. Just saying....
(Germany and France for example)
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u/borutesu_faibu 17d ago
People shouldn't be forced to work so that some kid studies sociology. That's slavery.
If you want to contribute to some college fund, you are free to donate.
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u/Used_Comedian2098 17d ago
Where do you get that free education nonsense from?
Scotland and Germany have it , but it's incredibly costly. Scotland has to offset many welfare programs for education and most educated Scots leave for England . It doesn't benefit Scotland in the slightest.
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u/pelletron 16d ago
free health care and free university failed in other countries
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u/ellen_watson ujo undulaatti 16d ago
Hasn't failed in Finland. Also America's mission to charge diabetics over €500 a month can be considered an immense failure.
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u/CaptainTarantula 17d ago
American politics agenda post in a Lord of the Rings sub? Bye.
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u/PenisButtuh 16d ago
I am not a supporter of Sanders and I found this funny. Chillax a lil this is a good meme
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u/Nordicson88 17d ago
Yeah the problem with universal health care is that most people are to naive to understand how it actually works. In order for it to work most of the country has to be employed and getting health care for themselves, their spouse, and children through their employer so that the government only has to take care of the 5% of the population that is to lazy and worthless to take care of themselves. If America were to implement universal health care today they would be paying for 30 to 40% of the country's healthcare, which no country, even America could actually afford to do. If Americans want universal healthcare then it's time for all the lazy assholes to get up off their ass, get a job, take care of themselves, and contribute to society.
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u/Batterman001 17d ago
Universal healthcare would be for everyone not just 5% and it works fine in every other developed country in the world.
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u/WonderfulCattle6234 17d ago
What they are saying is that countries that have universal healthcare have 95% of the population working and thus generating tax revenue for the government to spend on Healthcare. The government is paying out-of-pocket for the 5% not working. They are then saying that in the US only sixty to seventy percent of the population works. So the government is paying out-of-pocket for more people who are not generating tax revenue to offset the costs.
The numbers sound pretty ridiculous, but I think it would be interesting to see a comparison of actual stats.
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u/Links_Hacks 17d ago edited 17d ago
This is true. 45% of Americans are a tax DRAIN.
www.marketwatch.com/story/45-of-americans-pay-no-federal-income-tax-2016-02-24
Furthermore, nearly 70% of Americans have less than $1,000 in savings. Are we expecting them to increase their tax burden to pay for some obese welfare recipient's healthcare? People seem to forget that 2/3rds of the US are overweight and 1/3rd are OBESE; which is one of of greatest detriments to your health.
www.statista.com/chart/20323/americans-lack-savings/
Downvoted for posting statistics lol
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u/WonderfulCattle6234 17d ago
You need to show how those stats compare to other nations with universal health care. I haven't researched the subject, but I don't think as many people who live in a household are expected to work in a lot of foreign households, when compared to the US.
As for not wanting to pay for people who are making poor health choices, tax things like sugar, cigarettes, etc. and have those funds go towards healthcare.
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u/Links_Hacks 17d ago
I tried looking at tax statistics for Sweden but wasn't able to find any sort of breakdowns.
I personally wouldn't be opposed to paying higher taxes, but I don't trust our government to use those taxes effectively as they already do such a fucking horrible job.
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u/WonderfulCattle6234 17d ago
There's a correlation between lack of women's rights and terrorism.
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u/Links_Hacks 17d ago
That's unfortunate. But should that burden fall on the US? Is Germany, France, Italy, Denmark, Sweden, England, Spain, or any other 'wealthy' European country doing anything about it? We have our own problems here and IMO I think we should fix those first before we play protector for the rest of the world.
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u/WonderfulCattle6234 17d ago
I'd have to research when that specific program started. However the history of the war on terror has been that it is a US interest more than a global interest. Europe joined us in the war on terror because of NATO. Them helping us with our problems then caused them to be targets of attack. Then came refugee crises that caused more friction.
The complaints of terrorists are generally that we are propping up dictators in their lands, and our globalism is not welcome.
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u/adamAtBeef 17d ago
You'd probably be better off pointing out that the US government already spends more per Capita than many other countries on healthcare.
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u/C4se4 17d ago
The US has an unemployment rate of 5 percent though. Not radically different than other countries with uhc
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u/QwertyLockjaw 17d ago
You know that someone is a seriously delusional asshat when they think that all unemployed people are just “too lazy and worthless to take care of themselves” and can easily “get up off their ass, get a job, take care of themselves, and contribute to society.” Jesus Christ.
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u/joachim_s 17d ago
It’s like that scene out of American Psycho where he murders a homeless guy:
"Get a goddamn job, Al! You've got a negative attitude! That's what's stopping you! You gotta get your act together. I'll help you.”
Performs several knife stabs.
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u/cold-hard-steel 16d ago
So all we have to do is write American Psycho and the Batemanbot shows up? What would Gandalf say about such madness?
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u/botrickbateman 17d ago
Before leaving my office for the meeting I take two Valium, wash them down with a Perrier and then use a scruffing cleanser on my face with premoistened cotton balls, afterwards applying a moisturizer.
Bot. Ask me what I’m doing. | Opt out
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u/SanguineAnder 17d ago
It wouldn't be unfeasible if we shaved about a trillion from the "defense" budget. Not a Bernie fan or a socialist before I get some comments about being a libtard or whatever.
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u/adamAtBeef 17d ago
1)your numbers are wrong. "Defense" spending total is still <3/4 trillion.
2) that wouldn't really help. US government health spending is already a couple trillion and similar per Capita to other countries. We don't need to throw more money at the problem we need to spend it more effectively
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u/SanguineAnder 17d ago
That's annually, you're either missing the point or intentionally ignoring it.
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u/Nordicson88 17d ago
Yeah you wouldn't want to see what the world would actually be like today if the US military didn't exist and wasn't the power that it is. One of the reasons why western Europe can afford universal healthcare is because they don't have to spend that money on their military because America is their ally
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u/SanguineAnder 17d ago
Google M1Abrams graveyard. So much money is wasted on unnecessary military contracts, government corruption is the problem here.
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u/Zekron_98 17d ago
Yeah, no my dude. You know, not even gonna bother with the explanation, just saying that almost the entire world has this type of socialized health care and they aren't magically exploding or falling into a pit of lava.
I wonder why
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u/Nordicson88 17d ago
You wonder why? Because most of the people in this other countries aren't lazy worthless good for nothings. They actually have jobs and insurance.
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u/Zekron_98 17d ago
No my dude. It's just not how it works.
Italy, one of the best healthcare nations in the world, has a lot of issues with unemployment and taxes yet the national sanitary system, even with its flaws, works for everyone and makes people happier, healthier and most of all, they don't go into crippling debt for generations because they need insulin or the like.
It's only America that is baffling in that sense. My brother would have died in the USA because he couldn't have afforded in any way the medications he needs for his genetic, chronic asthma condition. In Italy, since his disease it's chronic and is recognized as serious, he gets his puffs regularly and for free, minus the commissions, so he can properly work and contribute to society before retirement.
That's how it works.
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u/floofandmemes 17d ago
If private insurance is eliminated it would cost less. They add no value to any transaction, they literally just take people's money, and maybe occasionally give as little back as legally required. That's it. They're leeches.
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u/Nordicson88 17d ago
The only reason first world countries have the quality of Healthcare they do is because of insurance. The only reason the world is as medically advanced as it is is because of insurance, but thank for proving my point about people being to naive to understand 🤣
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u/floofandmemes 17d ago
Insurance doesn't do medical research, they don't develop treatments and cures, and they don't perform medical procedures. They negotiate lower prices for themselves and higher prices for everyone else. How, pray tell, could they possibly create medical advancements?
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u/[deleted] 17d ago
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u/Nordicson88 17d ago
That's a liberal for you, anyone who doesn't agree completely with their agenda is automatically a nazi. I never said anything racist in any of my posts but you go ahead and believe whatever you like
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u/Oraxy51 17d ago
Nat 20s will do that to you