I recently rewatched the Incredibles since I was a kid. It hit me HARD watching that opening because legit I could see that whole suit happening, especially since his neck got broken? There's a reason we need those laws and it's sad.
Even if assisted suicide becomes legal it will be a complex thing were you are evaluated a ton to confirm that you are in the right state of mind and have a valid reason to ask for it
I doubt most jumpers would pass the psych eval needed to qualify for assisted suicide, they would get instantly a severe depression diagnosis and put in a mental facility with constant watch
So if it were a thing, severe depression wouldn’t be a valid reason? That would be pretty fucked up.
But I guess it’s because you can’t really prove it to be a terminal thing like cancer as we don’t quite fully understand the cause of depression. But I’d hope if you proved that you suffered from it for decades they could assume that it probably wouldn’t clear up anytime soon…or ever.
Lobotomies still get approved for severe depressions that don't respond to any other treatment. As proof Sapolsky said, they also lose the ability to feel joy, but they weren't feeling joy to begin with.
Also note that these are specific lobotomies, not the horrific icepick lobotomies. Just can recall right now what part of the brain they sever.
And also there are legal ketamine treatments people can now get. Lots of people are talking about their experiences with it, and it seems really positive overall.
It's the fact that you described it as "constant watch" like they're a prisoner, rather than a place where people who care about them try to help them get better.
Unfortunately, most psych wards are more like the former than the latter.
Which is the norm rn. We don't have a say over being born and can't even die in peace unless making a super elaborate plan or being too lonely to get noticed
"Oh, your life is a fate worse than death and has been for decades and you long for the sweet release of death? Too bad. Be on time for work tomorrow."
Like, it can be fun and all, but it's going to end in like 50 years, so yeah in the great perspective, it's like sleeping for 5 more minutes, everyone seems to love it but it's just... Meaningless?
I'm not saying I want to die but I can't see the difference between dying today or 30 years after
If you've never experienced severe depression or anxiety I'm sure it does sound fucked up. I had that shit for 6 months and was almost ready to off myself. I can't imagine having it for years or even decades.
People should be helped, of course. They should be given time off work, free access to therapy, anti-depressants, love and support. I'm very glad I'm still alive now, but I was lucky enough to have access to all of the above.
If society won't provide those things, then the absolute minimum it can do is let people who want to go, go. Otherwise you're just enforcing suffering on people.
Not forcing someone to live doesn't mean you encourage it. Just because I don't smack out cigarettes out of smoker's hands doesn't mean I encourage them. But people should have the right to their own bodies if they don't harm anyone.
I mean you didn't need to be evaluated to be born. You didn't ask to be born. So why do you need to go through 10 exams & evaluations with input of other people's opinions, just to die?
Also that ideal world of yours sounds like a ton of fun lmao.
Because our actions have consequences for other people? Sure, you didn’t ask to be born, but the death of a loved one can destroy other people’s lives. It should be evaluated, if not for the person’s own best interest, the interests of other people who didn’t ask to experience incredible grief.
Depression isn’t terminal. The scenario isn’t “keep living in misery”, its “continue fighting depression”. Giving up on that fight and passing on your misery to innocent people who didn’t ask for it, same as you, is selfish. You didn’t ask for depression, of course, but neither did they ask for grief, which can cause depression.
That is strange, when I worked in a convalescent hospital it was fairly common for people to die of 'sadness" when they just gave up hope. Most were due to a spouse passing recently, but some were just because they realized they would never get better.
So far all you have said is that some people should suffer so that other people don't have to be sad. Apparently seeing someone so drugged up they are not really a person anymore is preferable to letting them actually pass on.
You can mourn someone who dies, but watching someone you care about become nothing like they person you knew also destroys your memories of them as you will always remember the way they lived when they are forced to become a drugged up zombie.
My opinion on the matter is specifically about depression. Terminal or incurable cases such as Alzheimer’s, I agree that euthanasia should be allowed. Don’t misrepresent me, or apply my reasoning in a case I didn’t state it for, like you do
but some were just because they realized they would never get better.
here, and
Apparently seeing someone so drugged up they are not really a person anymore is preferable to letting them actually pass on.
here, and
forced to become a drugged up zombie.
here. In fact, that last one is especially incorrect for cases of depression. Someone who is depressed does not act like “the way they lived”, and treatments help them maintain that, not simply maintain a vegetative state.
Honestly suprising how you can start by saying this
it was fairly common for people to die of ‘sadness” when they just gave up hope. Most were due to a spouse passing recently
Which recognizes the extreme effects grief has on people, but then call me selfish for saying that someone effected by something treatable, curable and non-terminal shouldn’t cause suffering on others so bad it might kill loved ones is astounding.
Where else in society is it allowed to cause suffering on (potentially many) people so bad it can kill people?
I understand the other side of it, it's just a shitty situation all around. Imo the person should have the choice of what to do without needing to jump through 10 hoops and have a terminal illness beforehand. Also some people don't have anyone that would be hurt by it. Of course, it's not the majority of cases, but it still sometimes applies. Others are keeping on living for one or a few people's sake, already, too.
Imo the person should have the choice of what to do without needing to jump through 10 hoops and have a terminal illness beforehand.
Imo, this mindset is horrible. People with depression do not think rationally. Their mind plays tricks on them, making things up like how no one would care that they’re gone and exaggerating negative aspects of their life to an extreme.
Its a mental illness, like any other. You wouldn’t trust the judgement of someone who’s clinically insane, why would you trust the judgement of how worthwhile someones life is from someone suffering an illness that specifically makes them think their life is terrible, and not worth living?
This is never guaranteed. You can bring up a hypothetical of “well if they tried everything and it didn’t work” but truth is you can’t try everything.
Things can change. And they do change for countless people. People who think their lives will never get better, and they have no doubt about wanting to commit suicide find that their lives do get better.
I don’t want to come off as unsympathetic to people suffering from depression, because I know its hard, and I know how much it destroys you and your life. With that said, to make the decision to stop fighting and end it is selfish. Its choosing to stop fighting a battle thats never completely lost to relieve your own suffering, while at the same time causing so much suffering on your loved ones. Its trading away not only any future happiness for yourself, but also choosing to cause suffering on people you know and care deeply about. You’d be hurting innocent people for your own personal, self-perceived, potential ”benefit”. If thats not selfish I don’t know what is.
Imagine someone contemplating suicide, and whos main sticking point is their family being sad they’re gone. Many people are in that situation. Now consider what your messaging would be saying to them. It would essentially try to rationalize suicide to that person who is aprehensive, telling them why the reason they aren’t committing suicide wrong or invalid. An argument for why someone who is at risk of suicide but isn’t currently going to should instead commit it. And thats dangerous.
As the poster below you says, depression is not terminal. It's also not always curable, exactly.
I think it might do to think about that every so often.
Which is a little... parernalistic(?) of society it seems. I get that it REALLY sucks to lose people, but if someone wants to be done, it seems like its not my place to say no. As much as it affects me, I can say no, I probably wouldn't help someone (but can imagine situations where I might), but forcing someone to stay alive by locking them up just seems like we're caring more about the body than the mind. (Again.)
I have been thinking how the idea of consent in voluntarily participating is socially deemed harmful activity is being slowly considered the foundation of many legislations.
From drugs, to sexuality, everything that was once controlled by the idea of society and religion is being slowly removed. Voluntary legal suicide on the basis of "not being wired correctly" to a person could be a justifiable and personally rightful act but I wonder why did we even have restrictions of consented individual actions that didn’t harm others.
I am not super depressed, not super anxious not super traumatised. But I would like cease to exist. I don’t think of the consequences, just exit. So, if the idea of individuality is true I don't need to come up with an excuse.
I saw large number of people advocate for legal drugs that has chemical hooks because of I chose to put whatever I put inside my body. The idea of voluntary sexual transition with puberty in mind is removing the idea that to consent to transition you shouldn’t even be restricted by arbitrary age number to define you are adulthood.
Why did we even have restrictions and what could be consequences of removing those restrictions. Then at the end of the day people who have participated in legal yet socially deemed harmful acts wants the society to change because they don’t feel accepted by it. From legislations from society to now legislation to society.
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u/LazarYeetMeta Aug 13 '21
They do now, but back when that opening sequence was supposed to take place, those laws didn’t exist, according to MatPat of Film Theory.