Hopefully the insurance companies will stop covering people for treatment of covid related illness who refuse the vaccine (except those with medical contraindication). I have a feeling that is coming. Severe covid illness is for the most part preventable in the US. Insurance companies definitely don’t want to pay all these bills if they can be avoided in the first place. It puts accountability back on the individual.
As much of a danger as unvaccinated people are to society, I'd always argue against making a shitty healthcare system shittier. You guys seem to have it hard enough affording to keep yourselves healthy. One of the principles of the NHS is that they don't get to pick and choose who to treat - everyone gets healthcare. It sucks if the patients are despicable pieces of shit, but honestly I wouldn't have it any other way. Basic healthcare should be a human right anyway.
When you speed in a car or drink and drive your insurance rates go up. Why should that be any different when you actively put yourself in harm's way? There's no reason why responsible people should have to cover the expenses of the irresponsible.
Lots of companies definitely do offer incentives for not smoking or being a certain weight, as those are choices people can make and can fix, like getting vaccinated. The last two things are not necessarily choices and can’t really be fixed. And none of these, besides (arguably) smoking, lead to the direct and “immediate” hospitalization or death of others. As mentioned, driving and auto insurance is a much better comparison.
Two of those are addictions, but the other two not so much
In a for-profit healthcare system being poor is expensive. By holding the individual to account for everything, poor people in general are less safe because they are disadvantaged by a for-profit healthcare system in a country with low emphasis on mental health. Allowing for some delinquency so that fewer innocents suffer is not an absurd notion.
Most of those are preventable diseases, with the exception of hiv but now with prep it’s much easier to prevent. Was mainly being facetious to point out how stupid of an idea it was to do something like that.
Yeah diabetes, heart disease, drug overdoses from opioids, automobile accidents. Not sure about the last one, but most are preventable. As much as Aids is given precidence. I'm not even sure it makes it in the top 10.
The fucked people are the ones who get cancer. You can do everything right and still get screwed.
I think covid is much more cut and dry than the other issues is all, everyone should be vaccinated so as not to leave it up to insurance companies whether or not they are more negatively impacted by contracting covid, medically or monetarily.
Well, true, still the people. As much as it sucks to know that our taxes fund NHS treatment for anti-vaxxers and other idiots, I still wouldn't have it any other way. Even the most despicable prisoner in the world has a right to healthcare unless he or she has been condemned to death.
I agree- basic healthcare is a human right, and anyone with covid related illness should receive medical care. The only caveat is the unvaccinated (not due to medical contraindication) in the USA need to pay their hospital bill; not taxpayers or insurance companies. Besides, if covid isn’t real and it’s just the flu and the doctors/nurses are all crisis actors hired by Soros then why would these folks trust the medical community to care for them when things go south? Make it make sense.
Normally I'd agree with you, but these people are already making the system shittier. Insurance companies are private businesses who will pass the cost of these asshats onto us.
What are you talking about? Health insurance companies refuse to cover all kinds of shit all the time, even when the patient is supposed to be covered. It happens all the time.
How would that not be ethical? There is a FREE vaccine that people are refusing to get. This is just the sort of thing they should deny coverage on. If a person chooses not to get the vaccine ther insurance company can choose not to cover them if or when they get covid. Choices have consequences.
So do you think people should be denied insurance for being overweight? For riding a motorcycle? For playing sports? For having unprotected sex? There are many types of behaviors and choices that can increase the risk of medical conditions or accidents to the self or others, increasing the strain on the medical system. Where do you draw that line?
I'm not comfortable with dooming people to death without treatment because they happen to be born into a society that inundates them with disinformation. Obviously people should know better about the vaccine, but I can easily see how someone living somewhere without access to information and are surrounded by an in-group that pressures them into not getting the vaccine comes to that conclusion, and even though I find their choice to be abhorrent, I can't say that they should be forced to die. I could see myself being born into their exact circumstances and am not sure if I would overcome that.
Has nothing to do with insurance companies denying their coverage.
So do you think people should be denied insurance for being overweight? For riding a motorcycle? For playing sports? For having unprotected sex? There are many types of behaviors and choices that can increase the risk of medical conditions or accidents to the self or others, increasing the strain on the medical system. Where do you draw that line?
None of those are refusing a vaccine. None of those have basically shut down the world for a year. To ride a motorcycle you have to get insurance just for that motorcycle your general auto policy won't cover you so you are already paying for that additional risk.
People with high BMI have to pay more as well, just like smokers. Playing sports and being overweight aren't a risk for others around you.
and even though I find their choice to be abhorrent, I can't say that they should be forced to die.
I don't think they should die either but denying them insurance coverage isn't going to kill them. It will just make them financially responsible for the choice they are making. Not having insurance won't stop a hospital from treating them it will just make them shoulder the financial burden that their decisions caused.
I disagree with a lot of this, but I'll just say that even if I granted everything in your post, I still think it's highly immoral to burden people with a lifetime of debt for this behavior.
That doesn't matter. They can still drop people's coverage or charge people higher premiums for making risky choices like smoking or not being vaccinated. You can still be dropped from your employer's plan.
A medical condition that serves as a reason not to get vaccinated because of the harm it may cause. Examples include prior anaphylaxis or guillain barre after receiving a vaccine.
I'm Vaccinated but don't think this is the way to go. Like the should stop covering health treatment for people that are overweight (how much it would save if people eat healthy/workout every day). or people who drink? People who drink coffee? Where do you draw the line. If you are gonna let companies make this derisions it isn't gonna end well.
Being overweight is different from refusing a free vaccine. Insurance companies already make this decision everyday and since covid isn't a preexisting condition if you refuse the vaccine they can drop you or not cover you to their heart's desire.
The line should be drawn when refusing to do one simple thing (jab) causes harm to others, whether it be physical or otherwise. The ERs/ICU’s in the South are clogged up with sick anti-vaxxers and people with non-covid illness are being shut out and are dying/not receiving adequate treatment as a result. The fallout from covid is huge. Businesses are closing, jobs are being lost, & people can’t pay their bills. THIS is not ethical & almost entirely preventable. Their decisions are causing harm on a grand scale & unless anti-vaxxers do the right thing for the greater good of their communities then this pandemic will continue to wreck havoc on the world and never end. This warrants accountability. More people will get the vaccine if they realize that not doing so will result in financial penalty and as a result more lives will be saved.
If a problem exists, but a solution is readily available to those individuals that said problem threatens, the individuals should be held responsible for refusing the solution!
Insurance companies need to stop covering obese people for heart disease, diabetes, high blood pressure, high cholesterol and all causes of death until they swallow their pride and hit the gym! No more paying for people who prioritize their personal freedoms over health!
For a lot of things you’ve listed, there are serious genetic and mental health issues that accompany these, and often, what looks to be a simple solution from the outside is not.
It won’t happen, especially given the current vaccines much lower efficiency against delta and rising variants, serious illness might not be so preventable with what we have.
The vaccines are very effective in preventing serious covid19 related illness, death, & hospitalization. The folks that are getting hit hard from Delta are almost all unvaccinated.
I wouldn’t say “highly effective against delta”, the recent numbers coming out for efficacy against infection or hospitalization aren’t great for the current vaccines. It’s a lot better than nothing, but I wouldn’t say it’s great.
The data says that vast majority(>90%) hospitalized for severe covid illness are not vaccinated which supports my statement that vaccines are great at preventing severe covid related illness, death, and hospitalization. Read slower.
Ok, and new data is being added all the time. Instead of trying to insult me to prove your point, try reading what I wrote. I said the trending efficacy against infection and possibly hospitalization are going down, kind of dramatically (42%). Death prevention is still pretty high, and current hospitalization info shows mostly unvaccinated, but that can always change and seems to be changing. I’m literally agreeing with you that the vaccines are much better than nothing, just pointing out caveats from recent data.
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u/Visual-Anybody-5521 17d ago
Hopefully the insurance companies will stop covering people for treatment of covid related illness who refuse the vaccine (except those with medical contraindication). I have a feeling that is coming. Severe covid illness is for the most part preventable in the US. Insurance companies definitely don’t want to pay all these bills if they can be avoided in the first place. It puts accountability back on the individual.