r/politics ✔ PolitiFact May 26 '22 Silver 4 Gold 2 Helpful 4 Wholesome 4 All-Seeing Upvote 2 Ally 1 This 1 Vibing 1

Joe Biden said mass shootings tripled when the assault weapon ban ended. They did

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/may/25/joe-biden/joe-biden-said-mass-shootings-tripled-when-assault/
75.1k Upvotes

u/AutoModerator May 26 '22

As a reminder, this subreddit is for civil discussion.

In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban.

If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them.

For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click here to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria.

Special announcement:

r/politics is currently accepting new moderator applications. If you want to help make this community a better place, consider applying here today!


I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

5.0k

u/Ok-Message9569 May 26 '22 edited May 27 '22 All-Seeing Upvote Take My Energy This

I just want an answer from the Conservatives.

How do we keep our children safe?

This happened in a state with very few gun laws.

-There were multiple armed officers that confronted the man responsible for this before he got to the classroom and they didn't put their lives on the line to defend innocent children.-

The man was not a criminal and purchased the guns he used legally.

Given this information what did we need in order to prevent this tragedy? What would you say is a feasible answer to this?

Edit: New reports say that there was no police confrontation until they started shooting but isn't that equally ridiculous?

2.6k

u/Knightforlife May 26 '22

There is a post going around on Facebook of a school who has a retired military member at the front door with a gun the whole time. That’s their answer is more guns.

1.9k

u/emptysignals May 26 '22

That didn’t work in Buffalo.

2.1k

u/mysterypeeps May 26 '22

Didn’t work here either, the cops stayed outside while parents begged them to help.

965

u/laffingbomb Arizona May 26 '22

No wonder that slain teacher’s husband had a heart attack. I’d be getting tased/thrown to the ground in cuffs if a group of cops were standing by while my loved ones were getting murdered

787

u/natphotog May 26 '22 edited May 26 '22

I mean that's literally what happened. Not tased but they were forcibly detaining people trying to get inside, unless it was a fellow cop they were allowed to rescue their own children.

Edit: actually, reports now are saying they were tased.

290

u/lucidludic May 26 '22

They had their tasers out and ready, too.

193

u/Mo0oG May 26 '22

So fucking backwards

208

u/GetTheSpermsOut May 26 '22

this is america. Land of the fee, home of the depraved

110

u/Snoo_73402 May 26 '22

I feel like everything I read ignores that these kids are by and large Hispanic children and their parents. How much role did this play in the police response.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

63

u/Oz_Von_Toco May 26 '22

Do you have any link to the cops going in to get their own children? I keep hearing this but haven’t been able to find an article about it.

149

u/HeavenIsOtherDogs May 26 '22

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjXklN8HKfw

5:34:45 reporter asks the cop about the rumor and he confirms it.

45

u/Serinus Ohio May 26 '22

Thank you. I was very skeptical when the source was just a twitter post. It lines up with what I'd expect, but that's when not having a source is especially dangerous. This is a real source.

→ More replies

142

u/Adrienne_Barbeaubot May 26 '22

The fact that he chooses to praise law enforcement before offering condolences to the families speaks volumes for how little the police actually care.

Not to mention the robotic lack of emotion when speaking of 18 confirmed dead children.

51

u/GreatBigJerk May 27 '22

He almost sounded excited to tell the reporter about the number of dead kids. He treated it like that was his big moment.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

61

u/beckery_bobson Alabama May 26 '22

Wtf?? The parents were being normal human beings, doing everything they could to protect and save their kids. And they weren’t even the ones with weapons and training to save their kids from a school shooter!!!

It would shock me if I had read that parents DIDNT react this way knowing their kids were trapped in the school with an active shooter and the police were spending their time trying to push parents back rather than subduing the shooter like they should have been…….so sickening.

151

u/laffingbomb Arizona May 26 '22

Exactly, I’d make those pigs take me to the ground so I could run my mouth more and talk shit towards them. It wouldn’t be effective, but I bet the photo op would get more heads turning.

Currently, they are trying to control the narrative and say they did all they could when they didn’t do shit. I’m not blaming the parents, just absolutely revolting behavior by our men and women in blue.

→ More replies
→ More replies

18

u/Comfortable-Wrap-723 May 26 '22

In Minnesota 3 other cups watched while their colleague killed Floyd, that’s what cups do

→ More replies
→ More replies

634

u/Doctor__Bread__ May 26 '22 edited May 26 '22

It's actually worse. The police who had children attending there made sure to pull their own children out, before ignoring the rest.

Edit with source: https://www.mediaite.com/news/watch-texas-police-spox-on-live-tv-confirmed-cops-went-in-for-their-own-kids-during-uvalde-shooting/

472

u/fkbjsdjvbsdjfbsdf May 26 '22

It's actually worse. The pigs also threatened and forcibly stopped the parents who were trying to get in to save their kids.

471

u/sailorj0ey May 26 '22

It's actually WORSE because the school did have an armed resource officer who saw the man enter with an AR-15 and try to but was unable to stop him.

Which totally debunks the myth that all you need to have is a good guy with a gun. Because obviously in this case it didn't work.

215

u/argenfarg May 26 '22

Agreed, but it almost sounds like they had no good guys, but plenty of shitheels with guns.

74

u/sailorj0ey May 26 '22

COD cosplayers, or just simply cowards.

→ More replies

64

u/BoredMan29 May 26 '22

Including a full SWAT team that accounted for 40% of the town budget.

93

u/soulflaregm May 26 '22

Turns out when your training is shit you don't actually know how to respond to these scenarios

Everyone thinks they will be the hero until the actual gun shots go off. Then you realize you could actually die today.

It's easy to say you'll be the hero, but no one really knows who they are until it actually happens.

53

u/zombiefatcher May 26 '22

I heard that the shooter's grandmother called 911 after he shot her at home. She gave them a heads up, and two cops were waiting at the school. They got into a firefight, and the two cops hid because he had "body armor," which was a plate carrier with no plates in it.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

362

u/TheBirminghamBear May 26 '22 edited May 27 '22 Silver Helpful Wholesome All-Seeing Upvote

If someone, who gave no shits anymore if he lived or died, stormed a military base full of Navy Seals, equipped with body armor he bought online and an AR-15 fully kitted out for maximum death-dealing, he'd kill at least a few soldiers, or at the very least deal out serious injuries, before being gunned down. I mean, it's happened before. The single greatest weapon is surprise. People, even armed people, just sitting chilling and doing their job aren't expecting someone to have an assualt rifle pointed at them at all times. They're a last, last, last resort. When everything has already gone horribly wrong.

So think about that. Think about that when you propose preposterous solutions like arming teachers. Think about the fact that even if a teacher DID manage to shoot a perp with a glock in her desk, that perp with body armor and an AR-15 is going to injure and kill a lot of kids before he's stopped.

Why the fuck is this your solution? What right-thinking person thinks like this?

I don't care how ridiculously well trained anyone or any organization is, someone with body armor and no regard for their own life is going to be able to take down at least a few people if he has the weaponry and tech to do so.

The fucking inanity of saying armed people will stop a shooter is missing the point that the guy is already fucking shooting at people.

Guns like the AR-15 market their weaponry and its various accessories specifically based on how it increases the guns lethality. Guns do a single thing: kill things. The better you make a gun, the better it is at killing things. That's how they're marketed. Of course people with an AR-15 kill far more people than someone with a musket. That's literally the function of advanced weaponry. To make it easier, quicker, and more simple to slaughter people and other living things.

I don't want people to storm schools with weapons like that. It's too late then. Why continue a fucking pointless arms race against our own citizens? Let people by nuclear devices because of 2A; so arm the teachers with nukes? I mean do you see how absolutely bat-shit preposterous the notion is to just shove guns in the hands of people whose job has nothing to do with fending off people who give no fucks about their life any longer?

Conservatives always say "but if not for guns they'd find some other weapon! Look at stabbings!"

Ok, let's look at stabbings. Do you think the guy with the knife gets past the armed guard? I don't. Do you think he is able to murder 19 children in a matter of minutes with a knife? I don't. Do you think the police would wait outside like schmucks if the guy had a knife? I don't.

The gun is the problem. The technology to kill people has increased far quicker than our ability to protect ourselves against being killed.

The guns are the problem.

Mental health is an issue. And if you want to keep bleating on about that, then fucking do something to fix THAT. Like socialized healthcare, so people who NEED it can FUCKING AFFORD IT.

But no. It's the same with abortion. Conservatives want to outright ban abortion but give no fucks to the life it destroys while patting themseves on the back as pro life.

They want to shrug as hundreds of fucking kids in classrooms are mowed to pieces and say "yeah but mental health," and then fucking refuse to treat mental health either.

These people have no solutions. They have no answers. They have a backwards, toxic ideology that continues to kill tens of thousands of Americans. They are the largest threat to our society that we have ever known, and all the poison that flows flows because they enable it.

The solution isn't bullet proof backpacks. It isn't putting the gun in the hands of a fucking 50k / year elementary school teacher just out of college. It isn't endless preparedness drills.

It is common-sense legislation on the ban of certain firearms and intense background checks and certification requirements for people who own them.

We had assault rifle legislation. Conservatives allowed it to expire just a few years ago. Since then mass homicides skyrocketed.

The data is unambiguous. The solution is obvious.

And if you tell me the problem is mental health, than follow it up with your plan to elect Democrats to congress and the white house to pass sweeping social reform on socialized medicine so every person out there can get free and immediate access to psychological care and medical care, as well as a robust social safety net and other de-stressors to improve the mental and physical conditions of everyone in the nation.

Or else just get out. Because if you don't want to fix mental health and you don't want to fix guns than your solution is to continue to allow children to be slaughtered wholesale while quibbling over weather bulletproof blankets might cause only 15 students to be slaughtered casually instead of 30.

47

u/ichorNet May 26 '22

oh and also they worship, guess who? The police, who are basically just what they wish they could be but without the potential life-threatening assignments. so it's also a feedback loop of these shitty toxic people, who are allied with the ACTUAL POLICE STATE (PAID BY THE STATE, WE FUND THEM) THAT THEY CLAIM TO HATE. it's insane!

→ More replies
→ More replies

9

u/Mr_Lafar May 26 '22

Holy shit

→ More replies

42

u/moak0 May 26 '22

Do you have a source on that? I hadn't heard that yet.

106

u/Doctor__Bread__ May 26 '22

82

u/moak0 May 26 '22

Thank you. I had heard that while the parents were yelling at the cops to go in, some of the cops were itching to run in against orders because they had their own kids in there.

For some stupid reason I thought that meant they wanted to run in and take down the shooter. You know, like a hero.

27

u/MikaelDez America May 26 '22

I don’t care if they were itching to, if they didn’t go in, they’re a coward. “Please give me a gun and let me strut around passing out speeding tickets, don’t worry I’ll be useless when you actually need me”

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

31

u/AlanSmithee94 May 26 '22

There was an armed security guard present at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School on the day of the shooting. He cowered outside the building while seventeen children and adults were murdered.

→ More replies
→ More replies

142

u/OfferChakon May 26 '22

I live about an hour from Uvalde and the general consensus around these parts are to arm the faculty. Its ridiculous. The same people that vote to keep teachers from choosing reading material or have autonomy over their bodies somehow trust these same women/teachers to take up arms against an armed assailant.

I cant fucking believe it.

45

u/falconinthedive May 27 '22

Like let's be real. How many people who decide their passion in life is teaching six year olds are at all emotionally prepared to have and use a gun in a stressful situation?

Have people met teachers?

→ More replies

96

u/CantTrips May 27 '22

I dont understand why they think its now a teacher's job to be ready to take peoples' lives. Like, taking the gravity of the situation out of the equation, you're telling teachers "hey, a new requirement for teaching at this school is to be prepared to shoot people. Also, you're still going to be underpaid and you'll need to get your own gun."

Telling a schoolteacher that part of the job is to kill other people is absolute insanity.

52

u/falconinthedive May 27 '22

Yeah but think how easy it will be for a shooter to rob that gun from a kindergarten teacher. It'll be like picking up ammo in a FPS but in every classroom.

29

u/Lostmahpassword May 27 '22

Cue epic teacher shortage 100x worse than now.

Edit: queue to cue

→ More replies

22

u/TheBirminghamBear May 27 '22

I dont understand why they think its now a teacher's job to be ready to take peoples' lives.

Because that's what conservatives do.

They outsource the pain caused by their selfish decisions to other people.

They don't want to enact common-sense legislation banning the sale of this class of weaponry, so they pass on the burden of having to deal with the consequences to other people so they can continue to be selfish.

Its literally their approach to absolutely everything.

42

u/bananabunnythesecond May 27 '22

Saw a great tictok from a black male teacher, he said “you think my black ass in plain cloths holding a gun won’t be a target when low paid low trained cops come rushing into a building looking for an active shooter! Get real!”

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

342

u/TaniksAtTheDisco May 26 '22

Can't trust the teachers to teach about sex, but sure let's give them some fucking GUNS! There is no word to describe the sheer depravity of Republicans anymore.

27

u/58-2-fun May 26 '22

Or CRT for the love of Gawd!

67

u/DJCaldow May 26 '22

Language is fluid. Republican should be the word to describe indescribable levels of sheer depravity. I can honestly think of no worse insult than someone thinking I'm even a little Republican.

38

u/everythingwaffle May 26 '22

"I'm sorry, but your grandfather is now... fully Republican. It's terminal. There's... really nothing more we can do at this point but to leave him alone, maybe put on some earplugs."

→ More replies

13

u/ixNet May 26 '22

Same, even some remotely intelligent Republicans are now realizing that it’s not an ideological monolith they should be a part of.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

67

u/ArcticCelt May 26 '22 Gold

According to conservatives it's all about the doors. Really? So why is the rest of the world so "ahead" in door technology and door protocol? Should the US start a new door science curriculum at Harvard and MIT? Maybe NASA and the military best minds should take a crack the door problem. Or maybe it's all fucking bullshit and the problem is the guns.

→ More replies

49

u/lizard_king_rebirth May 26 '22

Nobody tell the shooter about the back door, plz.

66

u/snowday784 Colorado May 26 '22

no joke ted cruz is making an argument that schools have too many doors and that was part of the problem

20

u/d36williams Texas May 26 '22

fire hazards much?

46

u/lizard_king_rebirth May 26 '22

You know the old saying. Guns don't kill people, doors do.

→ More replies
→ More replies

69

u/frunch May 26 '22

I overheard the same on Fox News yesterday. Apparently retired police would be willing to be armed guards at the schools for free.

Problem solved--if only we could find enough retired police and soldiers to volunteer to watch over our schools. I don't know why we don't just watch Fox and follow their instructions, we'd have a perfect country today ¯_(ツ)_/¯

65

u/MushroomStall May 26 '22

Apparently retired police would be willing to be armed guards at the schools for free.

And somehow we're supposed to believe that retired police working for free are going to put more effort into protecting students than the active duty police who are actually paid to do it and still don't.

40

u/JasnahKolin May 26 '22

These people are insane. Let's have older and fatter former cops nap in the entryway like some fucked up walmart greeter.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

115

u/sly_cooper25 Ohio May 26 '22

They all call for more guns to fix the problem when there were armed guards at both of the recent shootings. A security guard outside the store in Buffalo and a school resource officer in Uvalde.

Neither prevented the shooting, Republicans are clowns.

38

u/remag_nation May 26 '22

Republicans are clowns.

armed clowns.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

429

u/relddir123 District Of Columbia May 26 '22

Fox News put forward 50 ideas in 24 hours. They ranged from “prayer” to “instill Judeo-Christian values in our kids” (which is literally meaningless) to “arm the teachers” to “arm the students.” One person mentioned mental health, which is a rusted silver lining in this.

Conservatives have no plan

215

u/SinisterYear May 26 '22

They back right out of that argument the second you suggest any form of a tax-payer funded mental health service. They recognize it's a problem, but they sure as hell won't lift a finger to do anything about it.

70

u/ReadSomeTheory May 26 '22

They recognize "mental health" is a problem, but the implication is that they're just lunatics and you can't do anything about that.

17

u/Tangent_Odyssey South Carolina May 26 '22 edited May 27 '22

When you’re fine with the status quo, and the system is serving you, not doing anything about anything makes sense I guess. Way too many people hit a certain threshold of money or privilege and then it’s just “fuck you, got mine.”

I don’t know how those people can live with themselves.

→ More replies
→ More replies

64

u/jonny_lube May 26 '22

Don't forget the brilliant suggestion of booby traps.

31

u/Rion23 May 26 '22

Look, I'm open to any idea and we can have fun with this one. Are we talking low tech, like pungi pits and swinging logs from the roof, or does the budget allow for claymores and laser trip wires?

Look, none of this stuff is going to work with current govervemt overreach "fire codes", so what we need is no windows on the first floor, a single access point we can set up the turrets and attack service dogs. A good place for pits as well. Plus, if we build a long enough child intake and processing center, we have the option of an Indiana Jones style rollin Boulder.

Yehaw fellow Americans.

16

u/lliiilllollliiill May 26 '22

Well that kind of a building would fit rather neatly with their love of incarceration and unpaid labour, and their reliance on an undereducated population...

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

48

u/notreadyfoo May 26 '22

Is it just me or did they made it sound super victim blaming

31

u/relddir123 District Of Columbia May 26 '22

I think the point is that religious people don’t shoot up schools, but they can’t say that directly lest they risk people realizing that religious terrorism is a thing

30

u/fzr600dave May 26 '22

Evidence would point to the opposite there

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

84

u/Sea_Space_4040 May 26 '22

Ted Cruz wants a single door so there's a choke point to slaughter kids. That's easy money, call in bomb threat, shoot children as they exit the 1 door. For all the people that want to claim tactical brilliance, creating a single choke point is a horrific idea too.

35

u/Fadedcamo May 26 '22

That seems to be proven true because that's exactly what happened here. The classroom has one entrance that is easily locked because of this very reason.

→ More replies

23

u/thrownawayzs May 26 '22

if that nightclub fire taught me anything, it's that single entryways means you can just burn the whole thing down and seal the door. Cruz is a moron.

→ More replies

12

u/lonestar-rasbryjamco May 26 '22

Or just start a fire.

Which is frankly far more likely than a shooting. That's a great idea to get more people killed.

→ More replies

17

u/grtk_brandon May 26 '22

Typical Republican plan — there is no plan, they just don't want to do anything the democrats do. Even if the idea is 100% objectively sound.

→ More replies

188

u/Sharp-Floor May 26 '22 edited May 26 '22

It's usually, "Surround the schools with fences and barriers like a fortress, and make sure everyone inside the school is carrying guns and trained to kill."
 
It's wildly dystopian. The suggestion is that schools should be designed like a military base located in the middle of a war zone. Like... let's not think about preventing the threat from existing in the first place.
 
Edit: To clarify, I'm not a fan of the idea of gun bans. I just think the usual responses are pretty ridiculous.

52

u/Zeropalvar May 26 '22

My kid's school was looking at installing automatic doors to close classrooms in a emergency. The vendor previously supplied them to prisons.

19

u/WebbityWebbs May 26 '22

So we should build schools to be like prisons and build a wall around the entire country, and make sure that the government doesn’t have to follow the results of elections. Anyone else feeling particularly free?

→ More replies
→ More replies

32

u/rjcarr May 26 '22

And they never get to go outside? Didn't the Texas Tower shooter kill people walking around outside?

18

u/RandomH3r0 I voted May 26 '22

Well he was shooting people from a tower. So yeah, they were outside. Killed 14 and injured over 30. Still one of the more deadly shootings. And mostly with a bolt action rifle. He did bring a small arsenal with him.

→ More replies
→ More replies

127

u/LogMeOutScotty May 26 '22

Their answer is more guns. That is always their answer.

→ More replies

211

u/macemillion May 26 '22

Why do you want an answer from conservatives? Their actual answer is probably something like “everyone needs to worship Jesus and get rid of the gays” or some nonsense. I could give you an answer as a non-conservative gun owner though: get rid of conservatives, pass universal healthcare and child care, increase education spending, invest in our communities. Not gonna happen though

81

u/SuspiciousCurtains May 26 '22

That is exactly what a considerable proportion of r/conservative are saying, with added "society is too hedonistic/materialistic - all these mass shooters are atheists etc etc"

I have been browsing r/conservative off the back of this tragedy, just to see what they are saying about it. They are clearly sad about it, but the hoops they jump through to avoid even the slightest conversation on gun laws are astounding.

45

u/dalzmc May 26 '22

I’ve seen a bit of a changed rhetoric with this one. They no longer trust the police. However this one is also the lefts fault, because I guess wanting them to not just shoot people who look suspicious is the same thing as saying “don’t do anything about an active shooter in a school”.

However, not trusting the police to do anything anymore just ends up multiplying the amount of guns they want floating around

25

u/honda_slaps May 26 '22

nah /r/conservative has been hella low on cops since they didn't just welcome them into the Capitol on 1/6

22

u/d36williams Texas May 26 '22

as a Texan, I can say conservativism is attacking every level of community. We can't trust the power to be on; we can't trust the water -- they've asked us to stock pile water; we can't trust teachers; we can't trust each other, everyone needs to be armed all the time; we can't trust the news; we can trust trump? So gross, it is a gross group of people

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

1.2k

u/elsinore11 May 26 '22

A mentally deranged kid walked into a gun store on his 18th birthday. He can’t drink a Bud Light for 3 more years, but he was enthusiastically greeted, shown how to operate a rifle, allowed to use the range to practice, and given financing to bring home the AR-15 that day. All 100% legal with as little effort as possible.

I don’t think it’s political to think this shouldn’t happen. Anyone who views this story as “very cool” has been brain-washed.

292

u/Bulky-Yam4206 May 26 '22

There's a video on reddit of a 13 year old getting rejected from buying beer, lottery tickets etc. But he gets hold of a gun. Private sale perhaps, but point stands.

127

u/BigMoose9000 May 26 '22

In a lot of states that's actually legal. 14 is pretty standard minimum age for rifle/shotgun ownership via private sale or gift, there are states where 13 or even younger is legal though.

81

u/symbolsofblue May 26 '22

That's crazy. I wouldn't trust adults here with a gun let alone a 14 year old.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

667

u/[deleted] May 26 '22 edited May 26 '22

[deleted]

652

u/apc0243 May 26 '22

but I'm not in the mood to talk to a wall.

Right? I'm not in the mood to have a bad-faith argument with people that refuse to believe any stat or fact that isn't said by some dumbass on AM radio

→ More replies

172

u/Bobzyouruncle May 26 '22

I can not believe in any god whose plan involves massacred children.

196

u/zhaoz Minnesota May 26 '22

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.

Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.

Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?

Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”

36

u/LitLitten May 26 '22

The obvious solution is to kill God.

Ain’t no omnipotent force gonna tell me how to run my life.

→ More replies

15

u/ExperienceLoss May 26 '22

Their argument is this is God's plan. The murdering and violence is all his plan. To test us. Or whatever. It's dumb.

→ More replies
→ More replies

29

u/Mynameisinuse May 26 '22

The Passover should have tipped people off that children mean nothing to god.

→ More replies
→ More replies

56

u/AmaturePlantExpert May 26 '22

If my mom made that comment to me about my kid I would reconsider letting her babysit my child. Such a cop out answer.

→ More replies
→ More replies

7.7k

u/Boring-Birthday May 26 '22 Helpful All-Seeing Upvote Rocket Like

Sandy Hook marked the end of any possibility of gun control in America. Once a country decides that mass murdering children is an unfortunate but bearable consequence of a perceived inalienable right, the debate is over.

554

u/OrangeLobotomy May 26 '22

Republicans could’ve gotten us publicly funded mental healthcare a dozen times and refused to do anything. They refused to do anything and to this day simply espouse the same old bullshit responses “NOTHING WOULD CHANGE THIS” well yes, republicans passing mental healthcare would mitigate this. You say it’s a mental health problem and you actively vote against mental healthcare - what do you expect?

165

u/GreenAdvance May 26 '22

Republicans cut mental healthcare funding in Texas, then continued to blame mental health care for this shooting.

33

u/GoodRedd May 26 '22

But that's communism and communism kills EVERYONE! Think of all the lives we're SAVING!

→ More replies

47

u/Something22884 May 26 '22

I think the greatest impediment to change in this country is the filibuster. We need to get rid of that. It was never intended that the Senate should need 2/3 to get anything done whatsoever.

30% of people in this country are nuts anyways no matter which way you look at it. The only way stuff ends up passing is if it doesn't even concern this country, like the bill for Ukraine aid

26

u/TaliZorahVasectomy May 26 '22

Absolutely this. The house got rid of its filibuster and the sky didn’t fall. The filibuster benefits people who don’t like change, which like many of the other parts of the American political system leads to a boost to the political power of the right.

→ More replies

93

u/InsanitysMuse Missouri May 26 '22

While mental health in this country is an issue, and needs to be dramatically better funded and taken seriously, the best mental health system ever created can't solve all the problems that lead to mass shootings. Everyone that isn't rich is a bad day away from being destitute. Tons of money is poured into making people believe that those with different skin colors are inhuman, or those that just don't look enough like a man or a woman aren't actually people, or that the earth isn't dying in front of our eyes, year by year, extinction by extinction.

Money has been stripped from education for generations now, schools were under funded when I was a kid 30 years ago and it's worse now and funding they do get now goes towards guards, security gates, etc. Proper education in general goes a long way in a lot of situations to curbing violence, and part of proper education is learning about acceptance which is a huge, huge problem in this country and with kids.

Part of the problem is there is no one solution and there is no complete solution, so it's very easy for the right wing to just diarrhea all over every conversation about ways we can reduce these problems. And yea, actual, real gun control is a huge factor. And it will take probably gun violence against the rich and the elected beyond a few random assination attempts (which have happened, by the way, and resulted in nothing because it wasn't anyone the GOP cared about) to enact anything resembling change in gun laws.

34

u/DarthSlatis May 26 '22

Dismantling the NRA would be a great start, since we're making a checklist.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

3.2k

u/HGpennypacker May 26 '22 edited May 26 '22 Gold Helpful This

Sandy Hook marked the end of any possibility of gun control in America

It also marked the beginning of the current narrative that gun violence in the US isn't caused by guns but by deranged individuals. Republicans have somehow convinced half the country that their guns are more important than the lives of their fellow citizens.

1.3k

u/420blazeit69nubz May 26 '22

The thing is if they’re claiming this then they should be doing something about our mental health system. Of course they won’t because they don’t care though.

387

u/avanross May 26 '22 edited May 26 '22

they should be doing something about our mental health system

They are, they’re using their right wing facebook groups to radicalize the mentally ill, advise them to ignore their doctors, tell them that their paranoid delusions are true and justified, and provide them with new conspiracies to feed their illness.

If mentally ill americans can be convinced that they are actually gods chosen prophets, and recruited to the republican party, then the mental health system is perfect in the republicans eyes.

If the mentally ill were actually medically treated in the states, the repubs would lose a percentage of their voters, and they’d also lose their main “gun violence scapegoat”

55

u/MiniatureChi May 26 '22

Wow how spot on is that

14

u/strongsuccmale May 26 '22

It's scary how spot on it is...

→ More replies

657

u/takamuffin May 26 '22

You're not getting the angle here.

I wasn't killed in a school shooting, so why should I do anything to stop them?

Along with the false hope of: if i was in a school shooting i would win.

With those two statements why would helping anyone be done with my tax dollars? This is the debate and why you won't win it with even maximum snarky arguments.

Disclosure: the above is not my stance at all

291

u/Shad0wDreamer May 26 '22

Replace school shooting with Covid, hell most topics.

234

u/takamuffin May 26 '22

Exactly. Combine individualism and ego and you create an impenetrable shield to all the bad in this world.

78

u/ur_opinion_is_wrong America May 26 '22

It also doesnt help that fox and especially talk radio and reinforcing these ideas and giving them a convenient scapegoat anytime they might have to grapple with reality.

60

u/takamuffin May 26 '22

Yep, and it's why we all probably know one or two people who we thought were "smart" but went too far right. Republicans are not all dumb, and the smart ones i know are very "I'm getting mine, you better get yours". Taxes and immigration and such are a direct attack on them getting theirs. Guns is how they protect it, theoretically.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

48

u/notcarolinHR May 26 '22

I swear to god on some level they *want* to be in a shooting situation so they can live out their fantasy of whipping out their pea shooter and becoming a hero

22

u/elconquistador1985 May 26 '22

You'd think that constantly fantasizing about how they're going to kill someone and save the day might be a sign of mental illness, but alas...

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

176

u/WillSisco May 26 '22

"Guns don't kill people. People kill people." was the narrative way before Sandy Hook

79

u/VexonCross May 26 '22

"I think the gun helps." - Eddie Izzard

→ More replies

27

u/ImOnlyHereForTheCoC Florida May 26 '22

So well-established that Weird Al was making fun of it back in 1989

→ More replies
→ More replies

150

u/tomas_shugar May 26 '22

I think the phrase "guns don't kill people, people kill people" was old enough to drink by Sandy Hook.

That has always been the narrative. It has always been the excuse to regulate anything BUT guns after someone murders a bunch of children with a gun.

Columbine was used to attack music, TV, and video games. But if someone dare suggest that guns were a problem, Republicans would call you anti-American.

→ More replies

109

u/agitpotato May 26 '22

American individualism in action. They blame the individual to vindicate opressive systems.

34

u/BannedAcctSpeedrun May 26 '22

American individualism

“Wow I’m sorry you hate that America has individualism”

*walks away Ted Cruz style *

13

u/NobleGasTax May 26 '22

walks away

Slithers?

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

111

u/Rudi_de_Hue May 26 '22

I still don't understand how Americans get so extremely passionate about guns. I get that there are arguments in favor of guns in certain situations and I also understand that you can't just flip a (legal) switch and get rid of (the need for) guns overnight.

But the fury that comes out whenever anyone even remotely suggests that the gun situation needs to be looked at, is out of this world. It's very hard to see how the value of the two standpoints can even be compared.

In a tragic situation such as the one in Texas, one side is furious over a group of children that got killed using (easily available) firearms, the other side is merely in favor of being able to own firearms. Imo it's not the place for people in favor of guns to get mad, to be angry.

They're allowed to have their own opinions about guns and produce arguments in favor of that opinion, but it does not make any sense to me that they somehow instantly become victims of some sort because others want to discuss reform when people keep dying. The position of actually trying to not get as many people needlessly killed is just not the same as defending your right to own a certain tool.

Besides that, the 2A side always argues against a hypothetical situation where they have to give up literally everything they care about, while in reality the discussion is usually a suggested adjustment to the way the gun acquisition and ownership is to be handled. Absolutely nuts to get so wildly angry over the mere fact that people want to talk about it.

98

u/aurens May 26 '22

I still don't understand how Americans get so extremely passionate about guns.

because there has been about 40 years of constant, well-funded propaganda designed to make gun owners angry and defensive.

that whole time they've been led to believe that they are 1 step away from never being able to hunt or go to the shooting range again, 1 step away from having the government break down their door to steal their guns, 1 step away from being totally defenseless against the all-consuming plague of violent criminals champing at the bit to take their hard-earned property, and all because "urban thugs" keep shooting each other in some distant city whose inhabitants they don't give a shit about.

there's so much inertia behind their anger and defensiveness that even a school full of dead children isn't enough to get to them.

47

u/KhabaLox May 26 '22

because there has been about 40 years of constant, well-funded propaganda designed to make gun owners angry and defensive.

It's much deeper than that.

In school, we are taught a mythology of this country, it's founding, and it's manifested destiny. Guns play a central role in these myths.

It was the Minutemen, simple, humble farmers with their own muskets, who took up arms against the greatest military in the world and won.

It was the cowboy with his rifle, and the steely-eyed lawman with his six-shooter, who tamed the West and expanded the nation to Pacific.

It was the brave GI who stormed the beaches of Normandy with his M1 Garand and Thompson sub-machine gun and liberated France.

We are told these stories from elementary school onward. Novels and movies and TV shows about these gun toting heroes are so common as to go unnoticed. These are the tales we tell ourselves, and the Second Amendment is the bedrock we rely upon to assure ourselves of their Divine Truth.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

191

u/SuperCub American Expat May 26 '22

We live under tyranny of the minority, where the minority will not let the majority pass any common sense gun laws.

→ More replies

102

u/alexandhisworld May 26 '22

Not just children, but white children. Conservative America wasn’t even shaken by white children dying.

35

u/KickBassColonyDrop May 26 '22

Because the radio network which has been largely ignored by the Democrats and wholly monopolized by the radicals in the GOP, have used it to portray that the white children who died were of liberal parents and therefore, those losses are acceptable.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

34

u/whatistheformat Missouri May 26 '22

What's all fucked up is foxnewsnation is blaming this on Biden now, for not being a nazi on the southern border. Why? Because the shooter is Hispanic.

So were, it turns out, the victims in that border town.

Them idiots be way hypnotized.

→ More replies

7.8k

u/hirasmas May 26 '22 edited May 26 '22 Silver Helpful Wholesome Take My Energy Starry

I'm so tired of the people that say both sides are the same.

Are all Democrats perfect? Absolutely not.

But the difference between typical Democrats and typical Republicans is fucking massive. If Dems somehow held a 60/40 Senate split right now we would have Roe vs Wade codified into law, we would have HR8 passed, and at least steps towards some other drastically needed changes.

Edit - To the people in my replies complaining about Dems not doing enough...feel free to donate your time/some dollars to progressives like...

Charles Booker taking on Rand Paul this November: https://charlesbooker.org/ John Fetterman who is running for Senate in Pennsylvania: https://johnfetterman.com/ Raphael Warnock in a bid to keep his seat in Georgia: https://warnockforgeorgia.com/ Stacey Abrams to take the Governorship of Georgia: https://staceyabrams.com/ Mandela Barnes looking to take Ron Johnson's Senate seat in Wisconsin: https://mandelabarnes.com/meet-mandela-barnes/

These are all extremely important elections where progressive Democrats are in tight races. There are also a bunch of Congressional races needing support as well. And, in primary season, make sure to research who you're voting for and their platforms, especially in judge races where there are no political parties listed on candidates!

3.9k

u/bwwilkerson Arizona May 26 '22 Wholesome

The only people that think "both sides are the same" are Republican apologists and folks trying to edgy by lumping them together.

828

u/Tricky-Lingonberry81 May 26 '22

And older people whose spouse keeps conservative leaning news all day, does charity work, and is appalled by the evil in the world, but is only now being exposed to kind caring leftism. Those are the people we can reach caring old ladies who do charity work, but get fed hateful propaganda about “the evil liberals” when they in fact. Say and do liberal things.

391

u/Geno0wl May 26 '22

when they in fact. Say and do liberal things.

polls repeatedly show that when breaking down political issues piecemeal that most people overwhelming favor the democrat's positions on how things should be handled.

the conservative propaganda machine is just something else.

81

u/joecb91 Arizona May 26 '22

Its like all the polls out there where people say they love the Affordable Care Act, but HATE Obamacare.

21

u/Rion23 May 26 '22

I'm sorry, did you not see it's named after a black man? They could stamp gold bars with Obama's face and they'd still throw it through a gay bakery.

→ More replies

86

u/burtoncummings May 26 '22

It's like comparing a 2 person Marketing department to a high level Psy-Ops division.

... or sharpened sticks versus, go figure, AR-15s

→ More replies

16

u/DolphinsBreath May 26 '22

“Yes, I’m all for background checks and unions and doing something about healthcare, but I can’t vote for people who want to let the all-powerful transgender army recruit in schools and groom kindergartners as sex slaves, so I’ll have to vote for Crazyeyes McTwit.”

→ More replies

598

u/TheSherbs Kansas May 26 '22

My mom,74, is a classic example. She is pro-choice, pro M4A, pro common sense gun control, but votes Republican because shes a Christian and hates "the gays".

She was flabbergasted when, at Thanksgiving dinner, she asked what I would do if my oldest came out as LGBTQ+. My response was "Love her unconditionally, they are my child, if they are happy then I am happy, the fuck you think I would do?"

Her response "Well, I would write her out of my will and disown her".

And she wonders why we don't visit and shoved her into an assisted living center.

47

u/kbdrand May 26 '22

My child came out as trans and I had that exact response (I don’t care how you identify, I still love you and want you to be happy). But god forbid their grandmother (who watches Fox News all day long) found out.

→ More replies

324

u/rainman_104 May 26 '22

because shes a Christian and hates "the gays".

What's really funny is there is barely any mention of homosexuality in the new testament. That's all crap that is old testament Leviticus type stuff. Jesus welcomed prostitutes in his group. He didn't judge, he forgave.

171

u/squished_raccoon May 26 '22

And didn’t Jesus die a zombies death so we could forget that crazy Old Testament stuff? Why is Old Testament even part of the Bible??

84

u/Ixaldok May 26 '22

I had a theology teach say the Old Testament exists purely to justify Jesus being a descendant of Moses and solidify him as holy. He “came to fulfill the Old Testament” as he said

101

u/rainman_104 May 26 '22

Yeah so they ignore the parts of Leviticus they don't like such as the whole shellfish thing but preach about the whole sodomy thing.

It's basically just gymnastics. The #1 rule is to love one another. And that is a fantastic thing to live by and it's a wonderful teaching and I think it's great. Why make such a fuss about people loving one another? It may be incongruent with your value system but really is it anyone's business but their own?

30

u/ForkAKnife Oregon May 26 '22

Sodom and Gomorrah wasn’t even about everyone in town being gay. It was about inhospitality to foreigners. The men that knocked on Lot’s door didn’t want to rape the angels, they wanted to rape his daughters (who later raped Lot).

41

u/Silvervirage May 26 '22

Ezekiel 16:49 “‘Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy."

So it was the gays obviously. Also fuck socialism! /s

→ More replies

13

u/Imaginary-Fun-80085 May 26 '22

Actually they did want to rape the angels. But that would be rude as the angels were his guests. Raping his property is fine though.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

46

u/TheSherbs Kansas May 26 '22

I am aware, only through therapy have I really understood that I was raised in a fanatical christian cult. They are neither Christian or logically consistent.

→ More replies
→ More replies

9

u/Leviticus_Albrecht May 26 '22

People on Reddit’s families are fucking awful. I can’t imagine anyone saying shit like this

→ More replies
→ More replies

63

u/alchemist5 May 26 '22

Those are the people we can reach caring old ladies who do charity work, but get fed hateful propaganda about “the evil liberals” when they in fact. Say and do liberal things.

Anecdotal, but I've definitely seen evidence of this. My job involves talking to the elderly on the phone all day, and I've heard "you know, I voted Republican my whole life, but after that Trump nonsense- oh, he's a disgusting man, I don't think I can ever vote Republican again." not enough to say often, but certainly a lot more frequently than I would've expected.

45

u/19lizajane76 May 26 '22

I've seen this in my 75 year old mother. She votes only Republican, but her actions in everything she did & does in her life shows she's actually quite far left, it's mind boggling to watch.

43

u/porscheblack Pennsylvania May 26 '22

My dad would do pretty much anything to help out someone in need. But when you turn someone into everyone, suddenly he's a diehard Republican.

26

u/LazerWeazel May 26 '22

Alot of people find it easier to empathize with individuals because it puts a face to the problem and adds a real human element.

When you talk about a whole group it's harder to put a face on it and relate so it's much easier to dismiss their problems and issues.

I honestly think alot of humans are like that, we just have a hard time with large numbers or things and we need it broken down.

My father is similar.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

35

u/grendus May 26 '22

That's how I feel when I talk to my parents.

If there are no labels involved, they'd be centrist. If you accidentally say a Faux News buzz phrase, it's like they've been trained and they go hard right.

It'd be fascinating if I didn't love these people.

21

u/Dr_Ramekins_MD May 26 '22

Visiting my in-laws is the same way. You can accurately predict what they're going to complain about at the dinner table by whatever strawman the right-wing media have been beating. Otherwise normal, friendly folks, but it's like a Pavlovian response if you mention whatever was on Fox's Two Minutes' Hate recently.

→ More replies
→ More replies

54

u/Weminghay May 26 '22

Yeah. Weird how that thought has become so widespread...

52

u/Warm_Proposal5801 May 26 '22

They're way too far gone. A good buddy of mine (white) was telling me his grandma wouldn't use the bathroom after a black person to this day. Anecdotal but again, old people are just more stubborn versions of the baby boomers you see today. They've had decades to focus their hatred. The ones I know would rather die before going against Fox news.

56

u/WexAwn May 26 '22

My dear old mom just said they stopped watching Fox News because they’re all liberals now and the house has switched to OAN. They are now beyond reasoning with

45

u/Warm_Proposal5801 May 26 '22

Imagine Fox not being extreme enough for you...jeez

35

u/grendus May 26 '22

Fox scares me.

OAN confuses me. The Onion isn't that ridiculous, and it's satire.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

63

u/thatshinobiboiii May 26 '22

Old people are baby boomers now.

→ More replies
→ More replies

22

u/gideon513 May 26 '22

Also they usually harbor racist sentiments and prejudices ingrained in them from their upbringing even if they don’t usually outwardly express them.

→ More replies
→ More replies

59

u/pilgermann May 26 '22

A good example is conflating "woke cancel culture" with religious based censorship like "don't say gay." Even if "wokeness" makes you bristle, the spirit of it is to make more people feel safe and included. Don't say gay is the exact opposite, to tell people to conform or leave (or be persecuted).

Are there missteps and bad actors on the left? Yeah. But overall the difference is one side is trying to respect and understand more people,or to meaningfully grapple with the country's history of racism. There aren't two good sides to these issues.

22

u/itslikewoow May 26 '22

Also, the whole concept of "cancel culture" isn't even a political issue. It's literally just people choosing not to watch certain shows because they don't like a given actor or producer, and then saying why on social media. Even if some of the instances were a bit ridiculous imo, it's their right to do so, and we shouldn't make it illegal.

Republican politicians are outright using their government powers to censor things they don't like.

→ More replies
→ More replies

14

u/Angelworks42 Oregon May 26 '22

It also helps encourage people not to vote. In the back of their mind their thinking "why both the results are the same anyhow!".

Hmm who likes it when people don't vote?

299

u/Dandan0005 May 26 '22

So much of this on Reddit the past few days.

Don’t be mistaken: one party and one party alone is holding up progress on every front in this country.

166

u/mdp300 New Jersey May 26 '22

The past few days? Years. There were so many posts and comments lamenting that Hillary was more conservative than W back in 2016.

40

u/hiverfrancis May 26 '22

Indeed propaganda operations are insidious. This is why Redditors need to combat them

→ More replies
→ More replies

361

u/Bersho Wisconsin May 26 '22

and Russian/Chinese trolls on Reddit and Twitter intentionally trying to divide the Left.

158

u/NPD_wont_stop_ME New York May 26 '22

But more importantly normalize far-right behavior and rhetoric, shifting the Overton window farther and farther to the right until we find ourselves in an untenable situation and on the brink of civil war.

→ More replies
→ More replies

210

u/DefinitelyNotThatJoe Texas May 26 '22

I can argue that both Democrats and Republicans blow but to what extent either side blows is DRASTICALLY different.

Democrats will try and be nice even when getting punched in the face

Republicans are literally trying to kill people they dislike.

Both are annoying; only one is a significant issue

115

u/Phatz907 May 26 '22 Wholesome

This is how I see it: the worst democrats are corporate shills.

The worst republicans are a mixture of traitors, foreign operatives, religious extremists and white supremacists while also at the same time, corporate shills.

So which one would you rather have. Who is more amicable and more likely to work with you. There’s levels to this shit and if I have to sleep with the devil I hope all he wants is money.

51

u/The-Shattering-Light May 26 '22

Yep.

I’m frequently annoyed by Democratic politicians, and would love to be able to engage with criticizing where they fail or fall short…

But at the moment they’re the only party that doesn’t want to destroy my marriage, my son, and me.

15

u/Thegungoesbangbang May 26 '22

Exactly. My parents are disabled, my daughter's have autism. One side doesn't literally wish either part dead.

→ More replies

16

u/Kerberos1566 May 26 '22

The worst Democrats are corporate shills, the best Republicans are just corporate shills. And that's being extremely generous to the "best" Republicans.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

121

u/Nux87xun May 26 '22

"The only people that think "both sides are the same"'

There are plenty of Republican apologists and trolls and what not, but there is a third group as well. This group are those who gauge politics based around what they don't get from their politicians. For example: Democrats didn't pass climate change legislation, Republicans didn't pass climate change legislation. Therefore, democrats = republicans. This viewpoint lacks context, but its unfortunately common.

41

u/ThirdSunRising May 26 '22

Thank you, this helps me to understand a bit better those people who refuse to vote because "both sides" are beholden to corporate interests and actively breaking the working class. The fact that neither side is doing anything to stop it, is enough. The fact that only one side is actively on the side of the wrecking ball doesn't get through to them.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

64

u/CJDistasio May 26 '22

Sadly a 60/40 split for Democrats is all but impossible unless there are shifts in voting patterns in smaller states. The few control the many :(

→ More replies

166

u/Vikros May 26 '22

Democrats are frustrating because their right wing members hold back progress. Republicans are bad because their entire party tries to reverse progress.

→ More replies
→ More replies

354

u/heartEffincereal May 26 '22 Gold All-Seeing Upvote Starry This

I've always been pro-gun. Growing up in a rural area surrounded by outdoorsman it was pretty much inevitable. I'm most definitely not a "gun nut", but I never really blamed the gun in these tragedies.

But since Sandy Hook, my way of thinking on this has definitely shifted.

To keep it simple, it should be much more difficult to purchase a gun than it currently is. Mandatory training, background checks, waiting periods, etc. Whatever it takes.

To me, 99.9% of gun owners are normal people that will never use a gun against another person in anger. They hunt, target shoot, and keep one "handy" in the event of a self-defense scenario. These folks have legitimate reasons for wanting to purchase a gun, and many of them are likely to put up with the added "hassle" that more regulations would impose.

On the other hand, those with impulsive, sinister purposes are less likely to follow through on a gun purchase. An 18 year old kid should never be allowed to buy an AR-15. Period. Especially when that purchase is no more difficult than buying a gallon of milk.

We also need harsher penalties for those people that do not secure these guns in such a way as to prevent an angry kid from stuffing it in his backpack on the way to school.

85

u/autobanh_me May 27 '22

I had to take a hunter safety course and test to get a hunting license in my state. Didn’t have to do anything of the sort to buy my first gun. Doesn’t make sense.

→ More replies

56

u/EscapeZealousideal79 May 27 '22

I have and always will be pro gun but I believe you can be pro gun and pro gun control at the same time. Not every single person over the age of 18 should be allowed to purchase one.

→ More replies
→ More replies

1.3k

u/WiseBlacksmith03 May 26 '22 edited May 26 '22 Silver Helpful

Just look at the facts. Gun Deaths per capita by state. It's not a coincidence that all the states with the lowest gun deaths are blue voting states, that vote towards more restrictive access to guns. All the states with the highest gun deaths are red voting states, that vote towards relaxed gun laws and easy access for all.

Easier access to guns leads to more gun deaths.

Annual Gun Deaths per 100k people

Lowest:

  1. Hawaii - 2.5
  2. New York - 3.7
  3. Massachusetts - 3.7
  4. Rhode Island - 3.9
  5. Connecticut - 5.1
  6. New Jersey - 5.3
  7. California - 7.9
  8. Minnesota - 8.2

Highest:
50) Alaska - 24.5
49) Alabama - 22.9
48) Montana - 22.5
47) Louisiana - 21.7
46) Mississippi - 21.5
45) Missouri - 21.5
44) Arkansas - 20.3
43) Wyoming - 18.8

Source https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/gun-deaths-per-capita-by-state

EDIT: A nice Redditor took the time to create a scatter plot to show the correlation between gun ownership and gun deaths from this data. Very clear positive correlation!
https://i.imgur.com/wZWT9VV.png

519

u/moonfox1000 May 26 '22

Thanks for posting this data. What really stood out was that most of the gun deaths were suicide, which people don't usually think of when they hear gun deaths. Just having access to a gun makes it much more likely that you will die by suicide.

Suicides account for the highest number of gun-related deaths in the U.S. The Pew Research Center reports that since the 1990s, gun homicides have declined while suicides by firearm have increased. Of the 39,773 firearm deaths in the country in 2017, 23,854 were by suicide, about 60%.

125

u/the_nell_87 United Kingdom May 26 '22

Yep. Using a gun in your suicide attempt means it's pretty much guaranteed to succeed. Other methods are much less likely to succeed (and people who survive failed suicide attempts almost always regret the attempt).

When you look at the data from Australia & the UK increasing gun control in the late 90s, the gun control leading to a reduction in violence is debatable, due to it happening at a time where violent crime rates were already declining. But the decrease in suicides by firearm was significant in both cases.

→ More replies

30

u/WiseBlacksmith03 May 26 '22

Yes, agreed. Moments of desperation or depression can lead to suicide by firearms more often if it is easier to access a gun.

→ More replies
→ More replies

123

u/CptnAlex May 26 '22

I mean, they’re also primarily wealthy/educated states compared to rural/undereducated states.

I live in the safest state in the country (crime wise), and we have extremely permissive firearm laws. We are just below the cutoff of your list.

60

u/Wrecker013 Michigan May 26 '22

I would prefer we didn’t have guns, but it can’t be argued that states with solid social support systems generally have lower gun crime regardless of how available they are.

→ More replies
→ More replies
→ More replies

60

u/wisanass May 26 '22

According to the NRA, the Secret Service is taking control of the hall during Trump's speech tomorrow and is prohibiting attendees from having firearms, firearms accessories and knives. Ammunition, laser pointers, pepper spray, toy guns, backpacks and other items also won't be allowed.

But people kill, not gunz. Right?!?

→ More replies

19

u/everclearly May 27 '22

Republicans tripled the national deficit and mass shootings.

Good to know.

→ More replies

94

u/Slick_McFavorite1 May 26 '22

I bought an ar15 during the assault weapons ban. They were not banned. It only banned cosmetic features.

→ More replies

306

u/emotionalfescue May 26 '22

Don't look up

108

u/Roidciraptor May 26 '22

"The guns bring us jobs"

72

u/Themasterofcomedy209 May 26 '22

Won’t anyone think of the workers at the casket factory

→ More replies

131

u/ASYMT0TIC May 26 '22

Is there any hypothesis about why? My understanding of content of the ban is that it was more focused on the form (such as type of grip) than the function (such as rate of fire) of the weapons in question, which makes this outcome surprising. Inform me if I'm off base here.

→ More replies

250

u/digiorno May 26 '22

A fix doesn’t have to be perfect to be helpful. The GOP will always say shit like “gun bans don’t stop shootings, someone can still get them illegally”. And while this is true, it is also true to say “gun bans stop more or even most shootings, so they are still helpful.”

At the end of the day if we instituted strict bans to stop most of these crimes and then threw extra services at stopping the harder to catch stuff then we might have a close to perfect solution.

The democrats need to push hard that just because a solution isn’t perfect doesn’t mean no solution should be instituted at all which is what the GOP wants.

94

u/Polygonic California May 26 '22

Abortion bans don't stop all abortions, someone can still get them illegally.

But that hasn't stopped Republicans from going gangbusters on passing abortion bans.

11

u/chatte_epicee Washington May 26 '22

Obligatory pedantry:

abortion bans not only don't stop abortions, but places with stricter abortion laws have HIGHER rates of abortion than those with generally legal abortion, easy/free access to contraception, and comprehensive sex education...

→ More replies

13

u/AileStrike May 26 '22

This, they don't want to ban guns because bans don't work, then turn around and ban abortion, a practice that has existed since before there were guns.

It doesn't make sense.

→ More replies