ATF vs. CVT - r/subaru

I'm seeking advice from those who know more about my car than I do. I own a 2015 Subaru Crosstrek XV and was planning on taking it for a 13-hour drive from my home in GA to my in-laws in NJ. To be certain the car was ready for the drive, I took the car to a local shop to get a quick spot check and see if it was ready for such a long drive. While we were there, they started performing some of the 60,000 mile maintenance activities. I didn't necessarily want them to, but I figured that it would have been a "nice to have".

The next day, we set out on our journey. About 40 minutes/36 miles in, we seemed to have an issue where power wasn't going to the wheels; as in, I had to apply more gas to get the same amount of speed out of the car. The car made noises as if it was struggling. The "AT OIL TEMP" warning light came on and a burnt rubber smell began emanating from the vehicle. I promptly pulled off the highway. The car struggled around turns until we made it to a parking lot, after which the car would not move. We hailed a tow truck and had the truck towed back to our house.

The shop that inspected it brought the car in and indicated that they didn't have the Subaru-recommended CVT fluid in the car and, instead, used an alternative fluid, as per their system "All Data". They indicated to us that they replaced the fluid with the correct fluid. The car seemed to function properly, but after driving, there was consistently a "burnt rubber" type smell.

I took the car into Subaru to have them take a look and told them specifically about the issues I was having. They performed a fluid exchange on the transmission. On the receipt, Subaru noted that the fluid used appeared to be gear fluid and not CVT fluid.

I'm taking the original shop to small claims court. One question I had for r/subaru and anyone knowledgeable about cars is what is the extent of damage that could hypothetically occur as a result of this incident? I'm trying to assess a reasonable estimate for any sort of diminished value claim to be made as part of the suit I'm planning on filing.

Any help is appreciated.

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u/tdpdcpa Aug 10 '21

As it was explained to us, they used a system called AllData to determine which fluid to use.

At the initial visit, they told us they did not have the first fluid that AllData suggested, and so they used another fluid recommended by AllData.

At the second visit, they said that the fluid they used caused the issue, but they had the fluid that AllData suggested and used that.

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u/stevedoug2032 Aug 10 '21

Yes, I'm very familiar with AllData, but if I as the tech remove a transmission fluid and AllData tells me to replace it with an alternate fluid that is a gear oil, who's at fault? The meatbag in front of the computer is supposed to be able to use their knowledge to say: "wait, something is wrong here"

I would bet they looked at the spec for the front differential and "just sent it" without giving it a second thought.

I'd be prepared for a fight from this shop as they owe you a new transmission. There will be no repair that they can do to fix the internal damage, do not let them convince you otherwise. Even if the transmission seems fine now, it's lifespan will have been considerably shortened.

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u/tdpdcpa Aug 10 '21

Do you think it's wise, then, for me to try and trade in the car? Is that even a legal option for me knowing that there are potential mechanical issues associated with the vehicle?

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u/stevedoug2032 Aug 10 '21

I am not a lawyer, I can't speak to the legality of the situation.

Your first step should be to contact the shop that filled your transmission with the wrong fluid and explain to them what it is you want (a new transmission) and why (they screwed up). If you explain to your Subaru shop what you're trying to do they should be able to give you some paperwork that will help you "prove" to the other shop that they made a mistake and that you're not one of "those" customers who's trying to get something for nothing.

You're probably going to have to go back and forth a few times with the shop to talk to the right person who has the authorization to help you. I would not have that shop do any of the work or source any of the parts. Get a quote from your Subaru dealer for a new transmission+installation and hand that to them. They should pay the bill, let the Subaru dealer do the work.

If you get pushback, then you'll need to take legal action, which again I am not qualified to give.

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u/tdpdcpa Aug 10 '21

Thanks, I'm kind of jumping past the point of "working it out with the shop". Instead, I'm just going to take them to small claims court and work it out there. I'm just trying to find the best way to go about claiming whatever loss in value I've suffered through the car. I'm stuck between:

Having them pay for a new transmission (parts and labor); and

Having them pay me for the difference in trade-in value between the car in its current state and the car with full knowledge that it were fully functional.

The shop has offered me $100, representing the cost of the services that gave rise to the issue. I'm not accepting that, as I've incurred at least $1,000 in actual damages so far, without exploring the possibility of a new transmission/loss of value.

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u/waffle911 Aug 10 '21

Easier I think to go after reparations for a new transmission than lost value. One has a very hard number attached to it, the other is more of an abstract appraisal that doesn't quickly resolve your lack of a functioning vehicle.

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u/Crewso Aug 10 '21

DO NOT TAKE THIS MONEY!!! I cannot express how important it is that you do not allow them to try and reimburse you outside of anything other than making you whole. If you need a transmission, it is going to cost thousands, do not take a single penny from them until this has been resolved!

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u/tdpdcpa Aug 11 '21

Oh, believe me, I’m not cashing the check, but a copy of the check and the accompanying note will definitely be in my back pocket at trial.

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u/Crewso Aug 10 '21 edited Aug 12 '21

Ask them to print out the page from Alldata that shows what CVT fluids are acceptable for your vehicle, and to show you where on your invoice that fluid is. If they say it cannot be done, they are full of it.

I’m very familiar with Alldata, and most likely all it says is “Subaru Genuine CVT transmission fluid or equivalent”, I doubt that in this case it lists alternatives. And I can guarantee that it does not list gear oil of any weight as an acceptable substitute, so if that’s all that is listed on your invoice, they screwed up.

All of which is entirely irrelevant. They are the ones who serviced your transmission, and if they have already acknowledged that the fluid they used caused your transmission failure, it is on them. If they want Alldata to be responsible for the repair, that is between them and Alldata. YOU are THEIR customer, when you dropped your car off and agreed to have work done, you entered into a contract with them, not Alldata. I will try and remember to look up what it says for CVT fluid requirements on your vehicle and post here tomorrow

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u/tdpdcpa Aug 11 '21

Thanks, I appreciate it. Any information that you can send me from AllData would be really helpful for me to build a case against them.

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u/Crewso Aug 11 '21

I checked Alldata, it clearly states that for automatic transmission fluid, use the Subaru factory CVT fluid. It does not list an alternative fluid, and even specifically states in red above the fluid table that use of it any other fluid will result in malfunction. When I get home I’ll upload the screenshot of the chart. I’m assuming they looked at the part of the chart that says for transmission gear oil, which is for MT transmissions. Their misreading of Alldata charts is a failure on their part, no one else’s. If they can’t figure out that a modern automatic transmission does not take gear oil, they shouldn’t be servicing transmissions. Especially since, you know, your transmission has no gears. If I don’t post the screenshot by this evening, just reply, I may have forgotten. But I’ll get it to you

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u/tdpdcpa Aug 11 '21

Thank you. If this is true, this is pretty damning in my negligence argument in court. Without this, they had the fallback that "this is what AllData instructed us to do". However, if they clearly didn't follow what AllData recommended, then this argument is moot.

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u/Crewso Aug 12 '21

Here's the link to the screenshot, I highlighted the relevant portions for you

https://imgur.com/a/M1IRPPJ

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u/tdpdcpa Aug 12 '21

Thank you