r/technology
•
u/King-of-New-York
•
Jan 08 '23
•
1
As more automakers put factory features behind paywall, we’re racing towards a bleak future Business
https://adguard.com/en/blog/subscriptions-cars-mercedes-netflix.html5.3k
u/Fizzelen Jan 08 '23
How long before we see the headline, “… have paid hackers $2,000,000,000.00 to unlock all post 20XX models after a ransomware attack on their OTA infrastructure, left the vehicles stranded where they were parked”
3.5k
u/LaserBeamsCattleProd Jan 08 '23 •
Barebones cars with no features will probably become very appealing.
1.6k
u/tassigabriel Jan 08 '23 edited Jan 08 '23 •
You know, I think cars hit the sweet spot around 2015 or something.
Had a bunch of great technologies, safety improvements and all, but were not completely over the top with unecessary tech to make cars even more expensive and hard to fix.
I hate this new concept with huge screens everywhere, lack of physical buttons for simple stuff like volume or AC.
I just want my bluetooth for playing music, maybe a screen for the GPS, built in safety stuff like traction control/abs/airbags and that's all.
Feel like 2015 was a good year for that. After that, it looks like it all became about placing a million screens on the car.
Hell, I've seen some cars that you control the air vents VIA A TOUCHSCREEN.
So unecessary and over complicated
497
u/WIbigdog Jan 08 '23
I've heard Mazda is very good at keeping unnecessary crap out of their cars. I don't own one so can't confirm, but it's who I've seen mentioned previously when this came up.
→ More replies (74)332
u/DarlingDestruction Jan 08 '23
I have a 2017 Mazda 3, and I love it. It has a screen, but it's just for the backup camera and music, basically. There's a GPS option in there, but we didn't opt in to that when we bought the car. There isn't anything in the car that I'd consider unnecessary. I love that thing.
94
u/swampopossum Jan 08 '23
I have the same. Love how simple and yet luxury the interior feels!
116
u/Neromatic Jan 08 '23
I was just telling my neighbor how I ubered in a tesla last week, it's very unimpressive inside. Like... Knock on the car interior plastic. The type of shit Jeremy Clarkson shits on with the lower priced cars. Hardest thinnest seats I've sat on, like... CTA, MTA & BART do seats more comfortably.
→ More replies (5)130
u/Objective_Ad_401 Jan 08 '23
That's because Tesla is a $25k sedan strapped to a $20k battery. They aren't "premium luxury cars" and I don't know why people think that.
→ More replies (25)→ More replies (32)52
u/LexB777 Jan 08 '23
Fun fact, you can do some pretty simple sideloading to let you play videos on that screen from a USB drive. Definitely not a good idea to use while driving obviously, but it was pretty fun for camping and movie dates when I had that car. Surround sound too.
→ More replies (5)29
u/DarlingDestruction Jan 08 '23
My husband loaded it up with Android Auto so he could change the background and unlock the touchscreen feature and all that. It's pretty neat!
→ More replies (6)114
u/SqueakySnapdragon Jan 08 '23
Yeah I have a 2013 Honda Civic. It has the two features I mainly care about: Bluetooth audio and a backup camera. That’s it. No touchscreen; everything else works as you’d expect any typical car to that wasn’t made in the past 5 years. We’ll be eventually getting a bigger vehicle and I may avoid shopping new just for this reason.
I also hate how robotic new cars look.
→ More replies (36)98
u/letterboxbrie Jan 08 '23
Plus all the screens lock you into iPhone-type repairs instead of being able to just fix a hose here, a set of brakes there, some engine work, and you can just live your life. The guys at your local Jiffy Lube aren't necessarily going to be able to just a pop a new screen in or whatever, there's all this tEcHnOlOgY involved now.
There's a psychological hit any time something in your car stops working, it's now become an aging, declining product, one you don't enjoy as much, which might need replacing. A lot of people won't be able to resist the urge to either shell out for the repair, or start planning the upgrade. It's all a psych job.
→ More replies (4)→ More replies (132)141
u/slinkysuki Jan 08 '23
I maintain the 2000-2010s were the best years for modern cars.
Reasonable safety standards, but not so mad you can't see out of any windows because they got tiny. Vehicles weren't crazy huge yet (north america). Great fuel economy in many cases because of size, weight, but also modern FI and possibly forced induction. Simple, reliable consoles and HVAC systems.
I'm thinking of things like the MK4 golf and the 1st gen Toyota labelled as the Tacoma 99 thru 04). Reliable, refined, and simple.
My 2017 taco is better in some ways, but the headunit is an exercise in stupidity and there's a lot of foam between body panels that will make the truck get noisier as it ages.
→ More replies (39)537
u/Spartanfred104 Jan 08 '23
That's what I buy now.
309
u/Forgotten_Gravitas Jan 08 '23
For some reason dealer's near me charge MORE money for bare bones vehicles..
365
u/CaptainFunktastic Jan 08 '23
Because bare bones cars make the manufacturer less money, so they force the dealer to sell it for more as a way to dissuade potential customers.
→ More replies (27)→ More replies (5)159
u/AileStriker Jan 08 '23
Because you aren't paying into the subscription service, so they have to drain everything they can from you at the lot.
→ More replies (2)→ More replies (11)407
u/sunplaysbass Jan 08 '23 •
Everyone should stop upgrading their stuff regularly. From electronics, to cars, to houses. Slow the one way transfer of wealth.
→ More replies (29)384
Jan 08 '23 •
[removed] — view removed comment
92
u/ElkUpset346 Jan 08 '23
Screw the corporations, try to take the right to repair away get f’ed , try to lock features away , hacking programs will follow, for dodge the Diablo sport exists for that purpose but the great thing is they don’t care or at least don’t show it
→ More replies (47)206
Jan 08 '23
Don't call it stealing. Call it wealth redistribution...
Now where is my guillotine emoji...
→ More replies (9)84
u/grayrains79 Jan 08 '23
Don't call it stealing.
There's only one thief. Everyone else is just trying to get their shit back.
→ More replies (6)207
u/KeeganY_SR-UVB76 Jan 08 '23
Classic car prices will skyrocket.
101
Jan 08 '23 edited Jan 21 '23
[deleted]
→ More replies (5)89
u/Mr_YUP Jan 08 '23
That’s because people whose dream car was in the 90’s finally can afford to build a clean example of that car. Any clean 90’s Honda Civic is gonna fetch a premium for example since they’re one of the easiest cars to modify. Realize a 95 car is almost 30 years old so just by sheer scarcity the price is going up
→ More replies (13)20
u/Nukethegreatlakes Jan 08 '23
Yes I just got a old chevy pickup, no rust, fresh paint 10 years ago. 6k. It's mine forever now lol. Early 90s V8
→ More replies (2)129
u/Daisend Jan 08 '23
I’m definitely expecting all the people who are already adults to only be looking for older cars to avoid subscription bullshit.
89
u/The_Wizard_of_Bwamp Jan 08 '23
Driver of early 2000's shit box here. As side from wanting better gas mileage I don't think I'd like a modern vehicle anymore.
→ More replies (21)39
u/cwearly1 Jan 08 '23
Same. I’d love SOME quality of life features, blind spot detection, and a rear camera, but everything else is practically unnecessary.
→ More replies (9)33
u/AnalFluid1 Jan 08 '23
You can wire up a reverse camera in an hour, have one on my 99
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (8)84
u/Sasselhoff Jan 08 '23
My 2014 still has plenty of life left in it, but when it does come time to upgrade, you can be damn sure that I'm going to be buying the very last model of car that doesn't require a subscription...and then driving the wheels off of it. It's why Tesla was checked off the list the moment I realized that they only made one version and you had to pay to unlock hardware that you had already paid for (and they aren't even doing the subscription model).
I will fight against this subscription model with every fiber of my being, because it's just "too far" for me.
Like with Adobe. I've been using Lightroom since it came out...I'd buy one and then use it for several years, only upgrading if I bought a new camera that wasn't supported, or enough new features were added to make it worth it to me. The moment they started the "subscription" bullshit is the day I hit the high seas.
→ More replies (9)29
u/Supabongwong Jan 08 '23
Fuck Adobe with their incremental horse shit updates that may include a feature but then remove others or change hot keys that have been there since forever.
Capture One is also moving towards this subscription model this year...
→ More replies (4)→ More replies (19)78
u/fizzlebottom Jan 08 '23
I just inherited my father's 1993 Chevy Blazer, and let me tell you I feel like I won the lottery with how easy this thing is to work on. It isn't a classic car by any means, but the difference in engine bay plastic content and sensors between this and my wife's Prius is staggering.
Nothing but old cars from now on.
36
u/Anonymouslyyours2 Jan 08 '23
In the mid 90s I bought a dodge dynasty with 200k miles for $500 just drive me to and from work. I worked nights and had little kids and didn't want the wife without a vehicle. It came with a hammer in the glove compartment because the starter would stick and the heater was broken. Lots of cosmetic issues but I didn't need it for anything fancy. I bought a Chilton's manual for it. I had never worked on cars before and never had the desire to really do so but it was actually kind of fun. I changed the starter and the alternator myself and did all the oil changes. I didn't do the heater myself because I bought it in winter and didn't have a garage so I paid someone to do that. I drove that car 3-4 years and not just to work. Hadn't realized how much value a second car was back then. Sold it to a family friend's 16 year old daughter when the main car downgraded to the second car. Wished I hadn't. Main car lasted 2 more years. She drove the dynasty through high school and into college. Sold it to her 16 year old cousin who continued to drive until their mid 20s. The car had a unique visible bumper sticker and it was a small town so I would always notice it on the road. I believe they sold it when they finally bought a new car. I no longer live in the town so who knows it may still be on the road.
→ More replies (11)→ More replies (27)28
→ More replies (179)120
u/sh0ckwavevr6 Jan 08 '23
Barebones cars with no features will probably become very appealing.
I bet they'll lobby the gov to make those car illegal for "safety reason"
→ More replies (11)64
258
u/TheDevilsAdvokaat Jan 08 '23 edited Jan 08 '23
How long before we see "Due to error in the latest update, all our vehicles slowed safely to a stop and refused to move. Unfortunately, some people stopped in problematic places (on the freeway, around a curve, in an entrance, on top of a railroad crossing, in a slum) and a small number of people have been killed. We wish to express our grief at this situation while also stressing it is not an admission of guilt...""
→ More replies (2)84
→ More replies (29)60
u/giulianosse Jan 08 '23
Hopefully it happens sooner than later. People sometimes need a wake up call to stop financially supporting greedy companies and anti-consumer practices.
→ More replies (3)
2.0k
u/Ssider69 Jan 08 '23
This is not the future I remember reading about in popular mechanics as a kid.
557
u/MelodyMyst Jan 08 '23
None of it is.
→ More replies (4)837
u/illz569 Jan 08 '23
That's because popular mechanics was written by people interested in the field, not craven businessmen looking to extract as much wealth as possible from an emaciated consumer class.
167
u/latortillablanca Jan 08 '23
Very nice word choices there, jack. Emaciated is spot on for what I see out there
→ More replies (4)→ More replies (7)94
u/Green-Event813 Jan 08 '23
Just call me when the revolution actually starts - I'm no longer interested in the "complaining" period anymore.
→ More replies (8)233
u/Grodd Jan 08 '23
The aspirational futurism assumed we would be heading to a utopia like star trek, turns out we're more of a "battlefield earth" kinda people.
99
→ More replies (9)78
u/M0NSTER4242 Jan 08 '23
Fun fact - we're pretty much on track for star trek, as the space communism arose from a horrific 21st century- following the Eugenics wars of the 90s, WW3 runs from 2026-56.
→ More replies (2)37
u/Jerry_Williams69 Jan 08 '23
Could have the Bell Riots any day at the rate things are going
→ More replies (3)84
u/CrazyCatLadyBoy Jan 08 '23
1970's: In the Year 2000 we will having flying cars.
2020's: No flying cars, but for $20 a month we can heat your ass at the push of a button.
→ More replies (5)31
→ More replies (24)75
u/toothofjustice Jan 08 '23
You were just reading the wrong stuff. This is pretty close to the dystopian cyberpunk stuff I was into as a teen. Only less splatter.
→ More replies (3)
2.6k
u/Jykaes Jan 08 '23
I will never pay a monthly subscription fee to unlock included hardware on any car I have purchased outright, purely on principle. I am fairly sure there will be at least one manufacturer that sees a market in not doing this as I think a lot of people will be put off. And if not, no worries, either I'll buy a car with hacked firmware or stick with an older model that predates this anti consumer shit.
356
u/zaphodava Jan 08 '23
I won't even buy a car that has the hardware locked. Once you include any similar feature, I'm gone, and my money goes to a competitor.
27
u/CJLOLZ Jan 09 '23
A lot of features like that are limited/disabled purely in software, though not a perfect solution, there are companies that will unlock the features for less than the factory.
One example I remember is when an auto maker limited the power of one vehicle by simply limiting the throttle value in the software.
→ More replies (5)→ More replies (27)44
u/Capercaillie Jan 09 '23
This person gets it. You're in the showroom about to make a deal, the salesman starts trying to upsell you on equipment you're about to pay for, you get up and walk out.
→ More replies (2)51
u/cbstryker Jan 09 '23
I did this for a gym I was looking to join. The salesguy (or whatever he was) gave my wife and I a tour, then sat us down in his office to go over the gym plans.
After going over the different options he says:
"However, I can sign you up for a special deal of <whatever it was>. But it's only valid while we're in this office!"
I said "ok, so I want 10 minutes to think about it and call you back in an hour, I can't get this deal anymore?"
He said "yes, exactly"
I laughed and said "ok, have fun with that" and left.
I never understood that stupid last minute pressure tactic. The second someone puts any kind of pressure on me I'm 100% out.
→ More replies (3)20
u/Thi8imeforrealthough Jan 09 '23
One of my favorite advices: the faster someone tries to get you to part with your money, the more time you should take to think about it. (Works better in my mother tongue)
Said this directly to an "investment" guy and he just couldn't understand it... tried to push me to buy a stock that they knew was gonna go up, so I'd know they knew their stuff. Baffled him when I said, sure, I'll keep an eye on the stock and if it goes up, I'll know. Serious scammer vibes there...
39
u/0x15e Jan 08 '23
Hacked firmware will show up eventually for the more popular models. Or maybe someone will find a common exploit if they share modules (like how Bosch was making Volvo computers and maybe others, or if they all share a vulnerable cellular module). Hell, it could be as simple as a buffer overflow in a digital music tag since everything tends to be integrated these days.
I think for me, the litmus test is “can I put a single DIN car stereo in this without losing any other functionality?”. If I can’t, there’s way too much integration going on.
→ More replies (5)→ More replies (118)402
Jan 08 '23
[deleted]
201
u/silentinthemrning Jan 08 '23
They do? I declined the subscription but can still start my car by clicking “lock” three times. I cannot, however, start my car from my phone using their app.
→ More replies (28)131
u/yeags86 Jan 08 '23
That’s how my wife’s new RAV4 is. She still has the app on her phone that is free for a year but that time is almost up. Everything I have read is that the FOB will still work with the obvious line of sight and range limits.
→ More replies (5)73
u/DirtyMcCurdy Jan 08 '23 edited Jan 08 '23
Once’s it is common enough there will be downloadable hacks. I trust in the internets ability to pirate, especially for some nonsense like remote start.
EDIT: I did some digging, (quick google) apparently clicking the lock button 3 times will bypass the subscription and allow remote start. https://www.thedrive.com/tech/43636/toyota-reviewing-key-fob-remote-start-subscription-plan-after-massive-blowback
I’m super curious if that works on your wife’s RAV4.
→ More replies (2)→ More replies (67)72
u/lt08820 Jan 08 '23
This is my take as well. Chevy has onstar which is a subscription. Remote start via fob is part of the car. Remote start via phone requires the onstar subscription. If it requires going through their servers to actually use(and not just authenticate) then that's a service. But if it's obvious that there can be a way to do it locally without the service then that should be allowed as well.
So the remote start example fits. The fob is locally and anything beyond that is a service.
Navigation should be free with just paying to update the map info
Heated seats are free no matter what. WHY DOES IT NEED A SERVER.
→ More replies (5)
258
u/T8y6ta Jan 08 '23
Just a matter of time before an entire industry is created to unlock these features. Like a GameShark, but for cars.
→ More replies (10)70
u/Alarmed-Ad1358 Jan 08 '23
There already are softwares that do that, and chiptuning services are slowly also starting to offer unlock options
→ More replies (1)29
u/Jonkinch Jan 09 '23
What will end up happening is the OEM vendor will say it voided warranty and won’t replace it. That’s where these jailbreak companies should step up, provide your customers with a warranty option and basically poach the service customers from the dealers.
→ More replies (3)
8.5k
u/King-of-New-York Jan 08 '23
There needs to be regulations against this. Traditionally once you paid for a vehicle it was fully yours. One-hundred years of legal precedent backs this claim.
5.1k
u/Deedledroxx Jan 08 '23
And it needs to be across all industries.
Paying a subscription fee so that your fridge, toaster, or oven, has all the "features" unlocked sounds bleak af.
3.3k
u/vtTownie Jan 08 '23 •
Ya John Deere is really the champion of this shit and they need to be blown off the earth for it.
952
u/gsj996 Jan 08 '23
Not only do they pay wall their service and stuff, if you are able to work on your JD machines, their parts are so specific. A washer needed for a caster wheel is suck an odd size no one will carry it except a JD dealer and it'll be $8
270
u/Biking_dude Jan 08 '23
Support Right to Repair! Going to be a tough fight, but winnable in the long run.
→ More replies (23)403
u/vtTownie Jan 08 '23
Ya it’s like McDonald’s ice cream machines, they want to make money on the service truck hours as well
→ More replies (7)212
u/TigBiddiesMacDaddy Jan 08 '23
Time to make shareholders VERY Uncomfortable
→ More replies (1)211
u/seventwosixnine Jan 08 '23
We just switched to buying JCB heavy equipment instead of JD.
37(?) Refineries, all of which go through at least one quarter million dollar loader, and multiple skid steers every single year.
56
u/Osirus1156 Jan 08 '23
Jesus those break down decades faster than I would have imagined being so expensive.
103
u/seventwosixnine Jan 08 '23
They usually last decades! But when you're driving them in 3 inches of battery acid, crashing them into piles of lead "mud", leaving them running for days on end, and just generally crashing them into walls and other equipment, those decades happen really really fast.
→ More replies (4)36
u/Milksteak_To_Go Jan 08 '23
Jesus Christ, Hopefully you guys are going through the appropriate amount of PPE for those hazards as well.
→ More replies (0)→ More replies (26)63
u/throwaway57492037 Jan 08 '23
I bet you can find one that works on McMaster-Carr
→ More replies (12)34
u/PicardZhu Jan 08 '23
Ive been going as far as 3D printing and then casting brackets out of scrap metal. The Mcmaster carr plugin for fusion 360 is the best when I design my parts.
→ More replies (4)→ More replies (42)181
u/HermitKane Jan 08 '23
Thanks JDLink! You can brick my tractor if I change the oil myself!
→ More replies (7)343
u/liberlibre Jan 08 '23
Cory Doctrow wrote a great story about this many years ago: If Dishwashers Were iPhones
106
u/DreddPirateBob808 Jan 08 '23
So much of his work is unnervingly prescient
→ More replies (1)45
u/Perma_Bland Jan 08 '23
I think about "Down and Out in the Magic Kingdom" all the time. He's up there with Ted Chiang, Philip K Dick and Isaac Asimov in terms of idea driven science fiction. My favorite shit.
→ More replies (3)37
16
u/ButtCrackCookies4me Jan 08 '23
I've heard good things about "Unauthorized Bread" by him as well. It's on my to be read list, but maybe I should put it at the top of the list since it's more relevant now than ever.
→ More replies (3)→ More replies (8)15
u/codexcdm Jan 08 '23 edited Jan 10 '23
...it's parody, but I gagged at the accuracy.
Reminds me of how Keurig is actually *did this with their K-cups. Things are awful enough with the ton of waste generated.... But blocking any alternative was just a joke.
Edit: seems they stopped that DRM some years ago.
→ More replies (2)163
u/Riversntallbuildings Jan 08 '23
It absolutely needs to cover all industries.
The fact that we tolerate this in a digital world is absurd.
When Hollywood lawyers clawed back the “fair use rights” that consumers won during the VHS era we all lost something.
I believe there’s an argument to be made that it harms society. I used to love letting my friends borrow books/games/DVDs/Music whatever. In a DRM infested world and closed “platforms” it’s not possible. That hurts interpersonal relationships and erodes societal trust.
We need a data portability and interoperability act.
→ More replies (8)215
u/onduty Jan 08 '23
The only way a paywall makes sense is if there is constant development and service included. For example, you pay for navigation features because it dials into a gps and mapping system and the software can be updated during your ownership as it improves….paying for heated seats or remote start is not one of those situations
122
u/smegdawg Jan 08 '23
Sub for service.
Not for flipping a switch of components already installed in my car.
→ More replies (29)21
u/honus Jan 08 '23
Bingo. Every month I pay should include any warranty claims on the product in entirety.
If the argument is “these features are being developed” then you can’t argue as a company that the repairs shouldn’t be supplied when something fails.
→ More replies (134)29
u/x3knet Jan 08 '23
My fridge stops dispensing water if you don't change the filter within 90-100 days. And it "must" be a $50 filter made by GE since it has a rfid chip (or nfc, whatever, who cares).
To get around that, I bought a GE bypass filter which also has a chip so you can dispense non-filtered water. I took the chip out of that and taped it to the inside of the filter compartment to trick the fridge into thinking the bypass filter is in there. Now I can buy a 5-pack of off-brand filters for $50. Instead of 1 for $50. Bullshit all around.
→ More replies (7)418
u/YouandWhoseArmy Jan 08 '23
The digital economy needs to be bitchslapped back to reality.
FIFA games makes over a billion in gambling micro transactions, per year.
→ More replies (12)114
u/SomethingSeth Jan 08 '23
Partly why I have no hope.
That trash continues to be some of the best selling games out there.
→ More replies (23)146
u/shohin_branches Jan 08 '23
This already happened in high end tractors with advanced computer systems.
→ More replies (1)84
u/mgoodon Jan 08 '23
Yep John Deere requires a yearly fee to use section control and prescription mapping. I know others are starting to go this direction as well, but all this used to be free.
→ More replies (3)132
u/EmpiricalMystic Jan 08 '23
Not free. You paid for it because it's part of the thing you bought. Now you get to pay use what you already paid to buy.
Fucking boring dystopia.
→ More replies (8)75
u/Brawndo45 Jan 08 '23
What if no one buys this. Would they still try to sell it?
→ More replies (15)150
u/DreamOfTheEndlessSky Jan 08 '23
The problem there is all of your fellows who don't mind paying. If few refuse, they won't stop.
→ More replies (20)→ More replies (401)32
u/u9Nails Jan 08 '23
For sure! And the right to any software needed to repair the car needs to be made available.
→ More replies (2)
839
Jan 08 '23 edited Jan 30 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
340
50
322
u/xevizero Jan 08 '23
This is hopeless faith in the free market. In reality, dumb people will eat this shit up, all carmakers will do the same and you will have no other option. This is why we need regulation.
→ More replies (21)51
u/folkster100 Jan 08 '23
Additionally there's only so many car manufacturers. If they all start doing this then consumers will have no other option.
→ More replies (2)46
→ More replies (23)56
u/BigNTone Jan 08 '23
My dude, there are people stupid enough that if a company monopolized and started selling oxygen to live, they would just shrug and pay and tell you that you just don't get it.
→ More replies (4)
2.0k
u/Fenweekooo Jan 08 '23 edited Jan 08 '23
Kia wants $200 a year to enable remote start on my 2018 stinger, they can go fuck themselvs.
i am terrified for my next vehicle purchase
EDIT: ok i know the car uses an internet connection and that is what i am paying for, what i am angry about is its a feature that should have just been built into the car, there is an aftermarket plug in product that adds this functionality back to the factory keyfob. it should have never been a connected feature to begin with.
and apparently the feature was included on the fob in other regions.
679
u/dwiggs30 Jan 08 '23
An after-market remote start system with installation is $400. Just have Car Toys fix your problem.
→ More replies (17)474
u/EmbeddedEntropy Jan 08 '23
That is until any third party mods to your car violates your terms of service which in turn violates all your warranties.
588
u/PrivatePilot9 Jan 08 '23
Magnuson Moss act (and equivalent consumer protection laws around the world) prevent unilateral warranty voiding “just because” unless the manufacturer can present evidence that a warrantee issue was caused by the modification.
If your electrical system smokes and catches on fire because of an aftermarket remote start, yeah, you’re going to have an issue. If the engine blows a head gasket or whatever, not so much.
This has been tried in court many times. Manufacturers know better now.
218
Jan 08 '23
It’s the same as construction vehicles putting “not responsible for windshield damage” signs on the back of their trucks…. Yes, you are liable for the damage 100% of the time doesn’t matter how close I’m following. They just put that their because idiots don’t question them and assume that they wouldn’t blatantly lie to you like that.
Manufacturers know, they don’t care because idiots believe them.
→ More replies (7)18
u/ACleverLettuce Jan 08 '23
Best part of those warnings is they always say something crazy like two or three hundred feet, but being more than 25 feet away makes the text look the equivalent of a 6 pt font size. And then it's also covered in gravel dust.
"let me get up close to read this warning.... Oh crap, my windshield."
→ More replies (18)97
u/Amberatlast Jan 08 '23
Manufacturers know better, buy they also count on you NOT knowing better and taking them at their word.
If you don't know your right, you might as well not have them.
→ More replies (3)85
u/jhuseby Jan 08 '23
I’ll take it one further: they’ll make it so your car won’t start if you install after market mods.
→ More replies (7)110
u/LunaMunaLagoona Jan 08 '23
Guess we can just build our own cars.
... God what's the point of government when it doesn't look out for the public interest?
If you're just gonna protect the rich corporations, might as well let them rule.
43
u/jhuseby Jan 08 '23
What’s the point of government? That’s easy: To further increase the power and wealth of yourself and your bribers.
→ More replies (7)29
u/GDNerd Jan 08 '23
They literally have been since always.
American "Democracy" - what if we let the rich slave owners run things rather than the King / his friends?
→ More replies (15)16
131
u/Disconnekted Jan 08 '23
Key fob or cellular?
If it is cellular, I could see some costs there but 200 is laughable. I thought 75/yr was high for my Subaru. I’ll probably just go key fob at the end of the next subscription. I’m usually not that far from the car when I want to start it.
→ More replies (40)→ More replies (158)22
u/Falldog Jan 08 '23
It's remote start, plus a bunch of other features I believe, for that price tag. Still, complete bs for something that should've been put on the fob in the first place.
Here's the pricing for my G70 (which I let expire): https://i.imgur.com/Xg4Sj5I.png
→ More replies (9)
649
u/Junkstar Jan 08 '23
Subscription-based tech is all the rage right now for big corporations. It’s the inevitable future state, unless we fight back.
291
Jan 08 '23
[deleted]
→ More replies (3)173
u/kristospherein Jan 08 '23
Corporations in America have been pushing younger generations into a society of renters in regards to housing. This is definitely their mantra.
→ More replies (5)35
→ More replies (27)152
u/mr_indigo Jan 08 '23
They call it "chokepoint capitalism" - the market for actually selling things has saturated, so in search of infinitely accelerating growth, companies have started getting in the way between customer and product and charging money to get out of the way.
They create a chokepoint and then rent-seek, and it's only going to stop if lawmakers make it illegal to do.
→ More replies (24)
937
u/1leggeddog Jan 08 '23
And you can bet that automakers want to this future to happen in order to make bank on sales and resales of vehicules.
And they'll lobby to keep it that future in line.
Personally, i can't wait til we get open source software to run our cars
345
u/velifer Jan 08 '23
resales
First sale doctrine has been under attack for years. It's going to fall, and it won't be long before you might own that new car, but the OS is licensed to you and not transferable.
52
u/point-virgule Jan 08 '23
This is already happening. John Deere sells you the hardware, but the actual software that runs it is provided in a license basis.
Same deal with tesla, afaik
→ More replies (2)→ More replies (3)192
u/liptongtea Jan 08 '23
Might not, but Mechanics and Gear heads are some of the most ingenuous people there are. Some guy in a shed with a computer will have plug and play software for their pickup a week after some shit like this goes down.
There are already aftermarket ECU programs and shops all around me that can tune those things and the situation isn’t even dire yet.
→ More replies (29)→ More replies (42)112
u/pixel_of_moral_decay Jan 08 '23
It’s not even that.
Those monthly subscription payments are an annuity. You can assume the average cars lifespan. You can bundle it all up and sell it as an investment product for money, and use the money for business needs or just stock buybacks. There are investors who would buy something like that.
That’s the game plan here.
→ More replies (9)
373
u/TheDevilsAdvokaat Jan 08 '23 edited Jan 08 '23
It's a rotten nasty thing and needs to be stopped. Rent seeking behaviour.
Right now people are gob smacked that they're doing it to cars. But if they get away with it, worse is to come.
Got a fridge or a stove or an air con? That's nice. How about if they start "renting" essential upgrades? What about a stove that requires you to pay for each hotplate you unlock....only one works when you first buy it. Worse, instead of "buying it" outright, you have to pay a yearly subscription. Woohoo, now you have a stove that you pay rent on...even though you own it.
What about a fridge that requires a yearly subscription unlock to use the freezer?
The possibility for this sort of fuckery is EVERYWHERE, which is why it has to be outlawed.
Otherwise, dystopia is coming...and NOTHING will be a buy-once.
→ More replies (16)128
u/Dead_Dweller Jan 08 '23
Some how I feel micro transactions in games started this ugly trend
72
u/anonymous_matt Jan 08 '23
Funny that they tried to sell them as "micro" transactions. Of course nowadays they are usually anything but micro.
→ More replies (6)→ More replies (10)25
u/ProteinStain Jan 08 '23
Yup. And it's a great real life example to use against the idiotic "well, it doesn't affect me so who cares" assholes.
Guess what? Your apathy is coming around to fuck you in the ass buddy.
78
u/Krojack76 Jan 08 '23
Can't wait till I get into my new $80,000+ car only to watch some advertisement every time before I can start it up.
→ More replies (3)33
681
u/gemfountain Jan 08 '23
I hate to give away my age, but my first car my father gave to me to drive was a Ford falcon with a choke like a lawnmower. I would 100% rather drive that old car vs. being indebted for every luxury function.
→ More replies (83)190
u/Kolshdaddy Jan 08 '23
Damn son. This guy's social security number is probably only like 3 digits.
→ More replies (10)115
u/joec_95123 Jan 08 '23
This dude was born back when Instanbul was still Constantinople.
→ More replies (1)68
u/Kolshdaddy Jan 08 '23
This dude never had to carry textbooks to school, because they hadn't invented the printing press yet.
→ More replies (10)22
u/LeNarwhalBaconGuy Jan 08 '23
But he has to climb a mountain, cross an ocean, run across a battlefield everyday for him to get to school
176
u/r0n1n2021 Jan 08 '23
Don’t buy it.
The manufacturer that DOESNT do this will own the market. What is the nuanced point I’m missing.
→ More replies (16)64
u/ChemEBrew Jan 08 '23
That we live in an oligopoly and game theory clearly predicts that all manufacturers will utilize this tactic.
→ More replies (13)
666
u/Grey___Goo_MH Jan 08 '23
Push for EU regulations against subscription service cars and appliances
America is a lost cause the lobbyists own politicians
329
u/Test19s Jan 08 '23
I hate the “complex social problems that seemingly can only be addressed by Europeans” decade so far.
→ More replies (15)78
→ More replies (22)57
u/Tcanada Jan 08 '23
Americas saving grace is California for regulations like this. The market is too big to ignore and large enough that making two separate US models is no longer worth it
→ More replies (4)
58
u/amitrion Jan 08 '23
This will just like video games... you don't have the physical disc, the games not really yours. What happens when you sell the car? New owner wants heated seats, he's gotta pay to unlock it - but you already paid for it when it was yours. This is gonna suck.
→ More replies (4)
92
u/Chorizwing Jan 08 '23
My question with all this is also how long they are going to even support these app/software that enables these features? Like if I buy one of these used 10+ years down the line will I still be able to use the features behind the pay wall or will that be part of some outdated app I can no longer activate even if I wanted to pay the money?
→ More replies (17)52
u/Dead_Dweller Jan 08 '23
Sounds like a problem they’ll ignore until it finally comes back to bite them
→ More replies (2)
342
u/b_a_t_m_4_n Jan 08 '23
Give it a little time this stuff will all get hacked.
293
u/ReVo5000 Jan 08 '23 edited Jan 08 '23
Dude, I jailbroke my BMW, got heated seats and airbags!
Edit:
this is a joke...
183
u/King-of-New-York Jan 08 '23
2012, Just sign on the dotted line and the Beemer is yours.
2022, up all night googling how to jailbreak your car… like an iPhone.
103
u/ReVo5000 Jan 08 '23
If you fuck up a single step, you've got an expensive paper weight.
→ More replies (5)68
u/King-of-New-York Jan 08 '23
Warranty voided in most jurisdictions.
→ More replies (2)66
u/Jykaes Jan 08 '23
This is where regulation is needed, carmakers should not be able to deny warranty claims for modifications unless they can outright prove the modification directly caused the failure. If your ECU bricks, yeah tough shit buyer beware, but if the paint peels or the wheel shears off...
→ More replies (4)→ More replies (18)87
u/scoobyman83 Jan 08 '23
In BMW voice:
-Sir, we have noticed that you are having a crash
- we have also noticed that you chose to illegally obtain your airbag subscription
- sadly, we have to disable your subscription
- better luck in your next life!
→ More replies (1)18
u/DreamOfTheEndlessSky Jan 08 '23
Like the motorcycle airbag vest, if you don't notice their emails.
→ More replies (4)→ More replies (19)49
u/ionforge Jan 08 '23
I think at some point the EU will regulate against this, the same they are trying to regulate against having to jailbreak iphones.
→ More replies (4)
328
u/LavenderAutist Jan 08 '23
Why does my car need to be connected to the internet?
265
u/velifer Jan 08 '23
In exchange for being able to unlock my car if I get locked out, they sell every single scrap of telemetry, location data, and media choices to multiple aggregators.
What's not to love?
→ More replies (31)→ More replies (55)17
u/Nose-Nuggets Jan 08 '23
So you can turn on your heated seats from the app on your phone, theoretically from the other side of the planet, practically from your living room 10 minutes before you leave on a cold day.
→ More replies (1)
41
u/1000_pi10ts Jan 08 '23
This is the stupidest shit I have ever seen. These fucking assholes just can't stand the idea that once somebody pays for their shitty little product the revenue stream is over. Fuck these people and their predatory bullshit.
→ More replies (2)
57
u/FreshBakedButtcheeks Jan 08 '23
Are there workarounds? Nothing makes me happier than theft of service
→ More replies (4)
114
29
u/Forge__Thought Jan 08 '23 edited Jan 09 '23
Don't. Buy. These cars. Don't let friends or family members buy them. Boycott and pressure your local officials to pass laws making this practice illegal.
Please. Please. We can kill this practice together if we get behind it fast and early enough. Otherwise we will just be lazy and get used to it like so many things.
Edit: Also it's important to reach out to your Senators and Representatives locally and federally to let them know we want this practice to be stopped legislatively.
128
u/Ok_Marionberry_9932 Jan 08 '23
It’s the fuckheads who agree to this shit who are the real problem
→ More replies (6)
50
u/sl0r Jan 08 '23
Don’t buy them! They will continue to do this if you support them. The only thing that will prevent this from happening is a lack of sales/profits.
I am bewildered by the amount of complaints about corporate tactics from the likes of FB, Google, John Deere, BMW, by and from people who continue to use the products.
Wake the fuck up folks!
→ More replies (14)24
u/anonymous_matt Jan 08 '23
That's what people said about micro transactions in games too. Unfortunately people are idiots and keep supporting this bullshit.
55
56
73
Jan 08 '23
i'm really starting to hate this country and the assholes in it. it is of no surprise we have people snap daily and go on mass-shooting sprees. there is no joy anymore from anything. we're constantly getting screwed over by big government or big business. i feel my hatred for all people/things growing every single day.
→ More replies (2)42
u/cameron0208 Jan 08 '23 edited Jan 08 '23 •
And people will just tell you you’re depressed—go to therapy.
At what point do we accept maybe it’s not depression? Maybe it’s an adequate and perfectly acceptable response to the state of our world and our country being a complete and utter shithole? Maybe, just maybe, people think life sucks because it fucking sucks! If everyone is “depressed”, is anyone “depressed”?
The people who are supposed to help us are too busy cashing checks and acting like celebrities in the live-action drama that is American politics, to give a shit. I seem to remember a little phrase— ‘No taxation without representation’. Anyone remember that? Who feels represented in this country? Who believes their voice is actually heard?
Sure, more people have depression than ever before… thanks to big pharma controlling the DSM and expanding the criteria for what qualifies one to be diagnosed with depression by 10-fold. Very beneficial to them to get as many people as they can to be diagnosed and put on medication they sell—lifelong customer if they play their cards right and make sure to remind all these people that they need their meds. They need their $200/50min therapist who isn’t interested in resolving issues and helping one find closure as much as they are interested in opening old wounds, hopping from one to the next without resolution, and keeping people vulnerable and emotionally unstable so they believe they need their therapist, yet they only feel this way and believe they need their therapist because the therapist made them feel this way so they can keep the money rolling in.
America is a fucking wasteland. But, hey, as long as we have 45 different kinds of Oreos and 128 different cereals, who cares? Sure, we’ve lost most of our rights and no longer live in a democracy, but that’s a small price to pay to have 1000 TV channels and 30 different styles of Rice-A-Roni.
→ More replies (4)
20
18
u/PowderedCrowtein Jan 08 '23
Cop: You know how fast you were going?
Pedestrian: Not a clue, I don't subscribe to that feature.
80
u/powercow Jan 08 '23
gonna get banned at least in the EU. You are using emissions to create products that people might not even be able to use. There is also a problem with the verification tech changes. This idea is old enough that as some car companies went from 3g to 4g, suddenly people could no longer subscribe.
then there is also the laws in the US, that pretty much say YOU OWN YOUR DEVICES. So as people find out ways to bypass these things, even if it takes equipment, that will happen in the US even if we dont ban this bullshit.
→ More replies (1)15
u/lutsius-memes Jan 08 '23
Hm, those car companies have a big lobby present in the EU, they are big employers.
→ More replies (2)
5.7k
u/Bon_of_a_Sitch Jan 08 '23 •
The last thing my car needs is fucking micro-transactions