r/technology • u/geoxol • Jan 13 '23 • Bravo! 1 Helpful (Pro) 1

Apple CEO Tim Cook to take more than 40% pay cut Business

https://apnews.com/article/technology-apple-inc-tim-cook-business-d056553b10120c4a968b562cb7ece5d2
39.1k Upvotes

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9.6k

u/CedarBuffalo Jan 13 '23 • Silver Gold Bravo!

Well. How do you like Tim Apples?

743

u/No_Employment_129 Jan 13 '23

According to the article, the pay cut was advised partly based off his own recommendation.

It’s a 40% cut of his salary, which is $3m, so down to $1.8m. Still rich beyond anyone’s wildest dreams. AND, his stock options value is roughly $100m. And who knows how many other investments he has, which have nothing to do with this article.

Seems like a publicity stunt to me.

488

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '23

[deleted]

527

u/Crotean Jan 13 '23

Honestly for as much damn money as Apple makes thats actually not that egregious compared to a lot of CEOs who are making that as their corporations go bankrupt. Still an obscene amount of money.

149

u/SweatyAdhesive Jan 13 '23

CEO of PG&E is making 50m in comp while raising prices on everyone lol

74

u/ParlorSoldier Jan 13 '23

Gotta love those “we’re burying utility lines out of the goodness of our hearts to save you money, and definitely not because we killed people and paid billions in fines” commercials.

41

u/JustYourNeighbor Jan 14 '23

Fuck fines. A hunter starts a signal fire after he got lost (that rampaged out of control and people died) arrested and he went on trial with the possibility of the death sentence. PG & E starts a fire ((that rampaged out of control and people died) and nobody missed an episode of GoT.

6

u/boosted5O Jan 14 '23

That pg&e commercial is bad, I have to mute it or change the channel

2

u/FjorgVanDerPlorg Jan 14 '23

Activision/Blizzard CEO Bobby Kotick is gonna see a billion dollar payday, when the ActiBlizz board finally turfs his sex predator shielding ass.

The guy's wikipedia page reads like a wannabe James Bond villain.

2

u/boosted5O Jan 14 '23

Bobby’s gonna get a bigger boat when he gets his big undeserving payday

1

u/cmdrDROC Jan 14 '23

Laughing in Canadian grocery store CEOs

19

u/Iredditfromwork Jan 13 '23

I’m curious about the delta between him and the average salary at Apple and how that compares to the rest of the industry.

5

u/PHATsakk43 Jan 14 '23

I live in Raleigh, and the announced average salary for the Apple location that is being built here is $190k/yr.

That’s significantly above the average even in an area that has fairly high salaries for the southeast.

6

u/Iredditfromwork Jan 14 '23

Exactly. I’m willing to bet that Tim Apple’s relative comp package is far smaller than most CEOs.

2

u/PHATsakk43 Jan 14 '23

On the surface it looks like it is less than my company’s CEO (I’m in the regulated utilities sector.)

191

u/abandon__ship Jan 13 '23

Yeah from an operational standpoint it’s also pretty insane what he has lead them through. Beef with trump, trade wars with China that trump started, COVID AND he still managed to get iphones in stores with upgrades. Plenty of other supply chains fell apart but Apple held even with production in China

103

u/AnEngimaneer Jan 13 '23 • All-Seeing Upvote

Dude is a supply chain god tbh

33

u/Lord_Abort Jan 13 '23

Seems to be the most important facet to a company these days. Thanks to the internet, you could be selling literal shit, and somebody would want it, but they want it now.

15

u/rayinreverse Jan 14 '23

I work for a company struggling with logistics. We are a Japanese company. It is so impactful it’s hard to explain.

3

u/darthjoey91 Jan 13 '23

Cards Against Humanity sold poop one year.

5

u/realmastodon2 Jan 13 '23

Market your products to be luxury items and only carry a finite amount in storage. You can command whatever price you deem. Pretty smart move on Apple.

8

u/ehxy Jan 13 '23

it's apple, they could sell apple toilet paper and people would buy it just so they can say they wipe their ass on apple

5

u/BellowingBillie Jan 13 '23

$100 for 2 pack with proprietary ply

13

u/molrobocop Jan 13 '23

$100 for 2 pack with proprietary ply

The role would be a special size that wouldn't fit on standard dispensers.

3

u/Towaum Jan 13 '23

Held only using the MagSafe roll holder

2

u/BellowingBillie Jan 13 '23

At checkout they will recommend Apple dispenser and offer bidet as attachment thanks to some wizardry

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u/JerryMau5 Jan 13 '23

Having owned both android and Apple products, I can says that Apples mobile products feel better, last longer, and has everything I need. There’s no reason to buy them new. Buy them one year old and you can find plenty that are in mint condition and 20%-30% off.

2

u/ehxy Jan 13 '23

That's great. I've had my pixel 2 for 5yrs and it works great and have had no problems. I also have a iphone 14 and I can't stand it.

2

u/joshbadams Jan 14 '23

That’s great. I have a Corvette and a Kia minivan, and they both get driven, just depends on the day/use case.

They are all just tools to get a job done.

3

u/JerryMau5 Jan 14 '23

It’s almost as if people have different tastes and we shouldn’t shit on others that don’t feel the same way.

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u/ClankyBat246 Jan 13 '23

I recall a few bands that would sell pro-band merch inside the event and have vans and pop up stands sell anti-band merch outside the event.

People who hate things love to give their money away to show how much they hate a thing. May as well profit.

1

u/Dsnake1 Jan 13 '23

The Apple Broach

2

u/SolomonBlack Jan 14 '23

Manure makes excellent fertilizer but I need to spread it by Friday so you need it here on Tuesday.

2

u/bruwin Jan 14 '23

As proven by the Cards Against Humanity people a few years ago when they sold literal shit.

4

u/realmastodon2 Jan 13 '23

That was his whole job before becoming CEO. He joined Apple when Steve Jobs came back to Apple and the company was doing terrible. They had a lot of warehouses, inventory and whole range of problems. He basically leaned out Apple and only kept two weeks worth of inventory for all Apple products. Closed and consolidated warehouses they owned. This was before the iPod.

2

u/bawse1 Jan 13 '23

Yeah given that was his role before Steve Jobs passed he better be

0

u/Fatvod Jan 14 '23

I'm not sure having your balls in a vice with China makes him a God but maybe you are right

1

u/dyanamo Jan 14 '23

I need his help on Anno ATM

1

u/abandon__ship Jan 14 '23

Literally will be studied for a long time. HBS case and economist article and all

41

u/DearName100 Jan 13 '23

Not to mention the most important of all: leading Apple successfully in the post-Jobs era. Not many people could have done it as well as he has.

2

u/abandon__ship Jan 14 '23

I was amongst the many doubters and while he’s obviously not the same Visionary (no one will be nor is anyone currently alive even close) but he has proven me wrong.

0

u/mrpickleby Jan 13 '23

He's got Apple's values down.

Line 2: Apple is practically a supply chain unto itself.

3

u/abandon__ship Jan 14 '23

The stock is up over 1200% since he took up ceo

He built that supply chain and that’s why be was named CEO. Putting the M2 chip into the laptops during zero COVID China was a huge feat. Most car manufacturers can’t even get any chip.

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u/dkizzy Jan 14 '23

I mean it was a massive disparity in the trade profits occurring, the MSM reported the figures. The Biden administration has been happy to leverage and keep most of those trade policies intact.

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u/theBloodsoaked Jan 13 '23

It wasn't him but the people he whipped to make it happen. No CEO should take the credit for the success of day to day work.

1

u/abandon__ship Jan 14 '23

He literally met with trump and Chinese officials face to face. I don’t get how it wasn’t him. Many other people who make much more money than he does and they fell by the wayside. Sure he whips the people below him, who also make millions of dollars.

No one is giving him credit for the day to day work. My post literally just talks about the navigation of his leadership.

-1

u/[deleted] Jan 14 '23

[deleted]

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u/abandon__ship Jan 14 '23

Ok? What would that matter? Should probably say “who cares, I’m tired”.

Im not saying he’s over or under paid. Im saying what he has done was insanely competent and will 100% be used as an example to study in the future when it comes to executive leadership.

-20

u/danny12beje Jan 13 '23

"upgrades" lmao

Adding always on display and saying its only available on the newest iPhones isn't an upgrade.

Adding software features is not an upgrade to any hardware when its limited to the newest ones.

The camera has been the same garbage since the iphone 10, battery is virtually the same, M1 and M2 are nice af but i still dont get why have such overpowered chips in phones when it doesnt improve its performance over something half the performance (unless the software is so sloppily made that it needs more power to run proper).

Stop talking about Apple like they are some good corporation. They said they give the consumer their right to repair and its still more expensive to repair your own product than it is to go into an Apple store to do it which includes the actual work in the price. They still have the same scummy practices around their features.

At least the EU is putting them in their place with opening up their locked-down ecosystem (from NFC not being available for devs, to no 3rd party stores to VERY limited sideloading)

Consumers getting the exact same performance with 3 new software features for more money than the previous generation is EXACTLY what companies should do through rough times and every one of them have done this.

18

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '23

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u/DarkestNight1013 Jan 13 '23

Read the rest of the comment, it doesn't get any better. Dude knows fuck all about phones.

-5

u/danny12beje Jan 13 '23

Lmao what a good reply. Maybe go check other phones that have had AOD for YEARS and maybe you wont gobble on that apple misinformation dick that you need 1hz for AOD when there's hundreds of models that don't have screens that go to 1hz and still have AOD

3

u/alexnpark Jan 13 '23

You’re missing the point of the 1hz. Other phones have had AOD for years, at huge expense to the battery. Apple is late to the party on a lot of tech but when they do arrive, they always bring a very nice bottle of wine.

-1

u/danny12beje Jan 14 '23

They werent the first ones to have AOD on a 1hz display. Thats literally my point.

They did nothing to improve on AOD, they just started acting like they did some cool shit by not having LTPO in their 120hz, 1100 USD iPhone 13 Pro Max so they can advertise AOD as being "limited to the iph14"

If its such a cool and good feature as well as good for the battery, why not release it for older models and prove it?

Also theres a literal fuckton of phones older or from 2021 as the iph13 that have LTPO screens at much lower prices as well as having AOD.

Y'all are buying software features and praising apple for adding them and thinking they upgrade the hardware.

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u/DarkestNight1013 Jan 14 '23

Hey buddy, I daily a Z Flip 4. I'm not an Apple Stan, your take is just shitty and uninformed.

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u/danny12beje Jan 14 '23

Good reply.

Thanks for actually discussing what exactly im misinformed about.

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u/danny12beje Jan 13 '23 edited Jan 14 '23

The fuck are you talking about?

Its been a thing since Symbian

And android phones, including mine which doesnt have an LTPO screen but has 120hz has AOD.

Here we have the perfect example of someone that got fed some apple BS and believes it.

Are you also going to tell me that the S9 went down to 1hz without an LTPO back when it released?

Because it has AOD

Or another AMOLED on a 200 buck phone that also has AOD?

Edit : i got downvoted for proving the dude that got upvoted wrong. Seems r/Technology is just r/apple

2

u/abandon__ship Jan 14 '23

I’m not acting like they’re a good company. I just said what he lead them through was master class leadership.

I can’t even really call them a terrible company though because they dont have a monopoly. If you don’t like the batteries or the no right to repair or the USB C then you can just go buy an android. It’s not like they’re nestle starving Indian mothers of baby formula and trying to own water though.

Ok the M2 chip is a massive feat but you’re right in that it doesn’t make up for a lack of new features.

The right to repair does exist but you’re right its trash. But I’m sure we’ve all replaced our iphone screens at some sketchy store.

I am excited for the USB C and thank god the eu exists to put them in their place.

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u/prochal Jan 13 '23

Trade wars with china because of your beloved biden too buddy

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u/vruss Jan 13 '23

Lmao why do people assume that if you hated trump you love Biden?? Ran into a trumper at my cousin’s wedding who kept shit talking Biden to me to try to get a rise out of me (I’m pretty obviously queer). He was kind of at a loss when I said “hey buddy! You’re preaching to the choir! We hate Biden for opposite reasons but we’re on the same page here”

-21

u/prochal Jan 13 '23

Not on a side here. Just find it hilarious that they both do just as trashy shit and yet many still pick a side. Like once you realize neither is doing anything for you maybe you can stop picking a side to begin with

18

u/Mr_Rekshun Jan 13 '23

You pick a side because one side is demonstrably worse than the other.

11

u/vruss Jan 13 '23

Yup! Didn’t like Biden, but trump and his followers literally want me dead so I felt comfortable picking Biden’s “side”

-1

u/Username163494 Jan 13 '23

but trump and his followers literally want me dead

Lmfao. Literally.

Bunch of children upvoting that stupid shit too.

3

u/vruss Jan 13 '23

I have “literally” had my life threatened by trump supporters, and promises of rape. I’m sure you’d like to believe your friends aren’t like that, but they are

3

u/vruss Jan 13 '23

Plus with all this fake grooming bullshit honesty you can hear on video many many conservatives calling for the death of queer people

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u/vruss Jan 13 '23

Well that’s dumb, you’re saying that to a person that one “side” would gladly burn alive at the stake. I don’t like Biden, but when it came to “picking sides” I went for the side that didn’t openly want to rape and kill me for various reasons, my sexuality being only one of them.

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u/pepsisugar Jan 13 '23

I like how you jump on the "your side wrong too" bandwagon and didn't even take the time to comprehend what was actually written. Trade wars with china that Trump STARTED. This statement does not mean in any way that the blues are innocent.

Fuck Trump, fuck Biden, fuck most politicians in the US, and fuck over emotional half readers, they're partly at fault why crooks are in office.

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u/Swimming__Bird Jan 13 '23

https://youtube.com/watch?v=E7pfsneLSSM&si=EnSIkaIECMiOmarE

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u/DarkestNight1013 Jan 13 '23

George Bush was a traitor. Add it to the pile of false equivalencies. Even Trey Parker and Matt Stone admit they were way off base with a lot of that shit in the mid-aughts.

0

u/Swimming__Bird Jan 14 '23

I think the word you're looking for is "joke."

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u/DarkestNight1013 Jan 14 '23

I think the phrase "poorly aged and a bad take on politics masked as a joke" and Trey and Matt have admitted as much in interviews, but sure buddy, go off.

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u/abandon__ship Jan 14 '23

I have no idea why people took this as a political statement. The trade wars thing is bipartisan.

Whatever the hell trump did with like his technology council? That everyone ended up quitting? I dono what the hell that was or what it was supposed to do (besides a painfully obvious cringey power move) but that was him.

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u/ZoeMainsZoe Jan 13 '23

Lol the trade war with China was long long long b4 trump was even running for office.

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u/abandon__ship Jan 14 '23

Trump initiated new waves of restrictions that frayed our relationships with China and some of these restrictions directly affected apples supply chain. Obviously we’ve sanctioned China before for not faithfully participating in other economic agreements but these new restrictions were not there before trump and would not be there with out him.

I’m not saying trumps trade war was bad or good. I’m saying he caused it and Tim navigated it.

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u/spooner248 Jan 13 '23

I was aboutta say. I wouldn’t have been surprised if it was in the hundred millions.

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u/TardOfAvon Jan 13 '23

Even a hundred million is a drop in the bucket for Apple.

In 2021 they averaged more than $1B/day in revenue

-1

u/[deleted] Jan 13 '23

Yep, apple is so rich they actually have a legitimate crisis in not being able to store all their money. They’ve had to spend massive amounts of money on the infrastructure they use to actually store all the money they have so it stays in their control

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u/nutyo Jan 13 '23

If they can eliminate their 'legitimate crisis' by paying their workers more and they aren't doing that, then they don't have a legitimate anything.

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u/Lost-My-Mind- Jan 13 '23

Hey Apple, how about about you give me 50 million dollars. I'll store the 50 million dollars, and I'll charge you 1 million dollars per year to do so.

That being said, I'm not a bank. I'm just some guy who has a bed, and some space for a box under his bed.

But I'll totally keep your money safe!

(And that friends, is how you get paid 1 million dollars per year to do absolutely nothing.)

1

u/Dubslack Jan 14 '23

You're thinking of Pablo Escobar.

3

u/ihavebutonecomment Jan 13 '23

Right? My wife worked for Gannett who while closing down newspapers and furloughing workers every year for over a decade continued to pay their CEO millions and even gave them a 7 figure raise for “cost cutting performance”

It’s a feature. Not a bug

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u/realmastodon2 Jan 13 '23

Tim Apple is a supply chain guy. Everything needs to be efficient and lean.

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u/Josvan135 Jan 13 '23

Honestly though, who would possibly agree to accept the kind of responsibilities and personal stresses that come from running a company the size, scale, and insane complexity of Apple for less?

$50 mil is a lot of money, but his compensation is less than 0.01% of Apple's 2022 revenue.

1

u/Crotean Jan 14 '23

A ton of CEOs are incompetent grifters willing to take that stress as they run the companies into the ground and take their golden parachute. There are very, very few CEOs who actually are worth more to the company then their average worker.

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u/MarBoBabyBoy Jan 13 '23

It's really strange how Reddit likes certain rich people and hates others. I guess if it's a product they like the CEO is ok.

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u/nowaijosr Jan 13 '23

Almost like the person matters

-2

u/MarBoBabyBoy Jan 14 '23

Jeff Bezos and Bill Gates seem like nice people.

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u/nowaijosr Jan 14 '23

You got a weird metric but you do you

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u/Recent_Record Jan 14 '23

Gates is associated with Epstein.

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u/Charrmeleon Jan 13 '23

I do t think people are saying they like him, they just expected it to be worse. The bar is low.

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u/Crotean Jan 14 '23

Billionaires shouldn't exist, its a civilizational level problem that we allow a couple thousand people to control such vast amounts of wealth and power. Cook could easily be a billionaire if he wanted with the amount of apple stock he owns. Didn't matter whether I like him or not, the ultra wealthy shouldn't exist.

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u/MarBoBabyBoy Jan 14 '23 edited Jan 14 '23

Yeah, I'm sure if you were their position you would just be handing out money left and right to everyone.

What is the difference between billionaires and non-billionaires? Billionaires aren't envious of non-billionaires.

By almost all objective measures, life, in general, has improved for most people in developing countries but because some people have more than others the "the system is broken". It's just envy and jealousy.

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u/shaktimann13 Jan 13 '23

Blackberry CEO was getting paid close to 100m few years back while company struggled

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u/dkizzy Jan 14 '23

Don't forget his stock options. That's a real pay cut for a CEO

2

u/L3tum Jan 14 '23

Funniest thing I've learned today is that the CEO of my company, which is roughly 1000x smaller than Apple, is making half, HALF, if what Tim Apple does.

What the FUCK

1

u/Crotean Jan 14 '23

CEOs are almost always the biggest grifters at a company. There are very, very few CEOs worth the money they are paid.

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u/dr_blasto Jan 13 '23

It’s probably obscene if you compare it to the rest of the employees.

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u/Pleasant-Cellist-573 Jan 13 '23

What corporations are going bankrupt?

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u/Crotean Jan 14 '23

A ton all of the time. Pay attention to business news and the CEOs almost have golden parachute clauses as their companies die.

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u/Addicted2Qtips Jan 13 '23

How is $3 million an obscene amount of money. He is the most important person at the biggest company in the world.

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u/Crotean Jan 13 '23

His total compensation is 49 million a year. Yes thats obscene.

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u/Busy-Mode-8336 Jan 13 '23

Well, it gets complicated when you consider company ownership.

Tim Cook joined Apple in 1998, when the company stock was worth 31 cents: roughly 1/500th what it’s worth now.

In 2011, when he became CEO, the stock was $12, roughly 1/11th of what it is now.

It makes some sense that the leader of a company owns some part of the company. If his stock incentives were put in place on the day he joined, then it would be worth 4 million dollars a year.

It sounds like an initial package 3 million in salary and 4 million in stock, which is now worth 3 million salary and 46 million in stock.

49 million total compensation sounds obscene, but if the stock has risen by 11x since you took over as the leader of the company, does that mean you should be awarded a smaller percentage of the company?

He currently owns .02% of Apple. Does that feel like too much?

It’s just that .02% of apple has come to be worth a ridiculous amount of money.

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u/TrainOfThought6 Jan 13 '23

Even so, I'm calling bullshit if you're telling me he works 30x as hard as I do.

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u/NetCarry Jan 13 '23

He doesn't work 30x as hard as you do, but he provides way more than 30x your value to society. You can take a pickaxe to a rock all day and work harder than pretty much everyone, but it doesn't matter since you're not providing any value.

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u/[deleted] Jan 13 '23

[deleted]

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u/Stormlightlinux Jan 13 '23

We need this guys recipe, because I can never get it to taste very good, and clearly this guy loves it.

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u/Sangxero Jan 13 '23

He doesn't work 30x as hard as you do, but he provides way more than 30x your value to society.

Bull. Shit. I provide more value to society than him every time I deliver food to a nurse on shift, which is at least once a day.

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u/JungsWetDream Jan 13 '23

From the nurses: thanks. We wouldn’t make it through these bullshit 12s on nasty hospital cafeteria food.

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u/MNGirlinKY Jan 13 '23

You must never run a shift where everybody no-shows because they’re tired, sick or just don’t want to come in. We definitely did not provide value to our company or our customers that day.

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u/Merry_Dankmas Jan 13 '23

That was my thought too. Im not a CEO and don't really know much about the ridiculously compensated CEO life but given that Apple is the first company in history to be valued at 3 Trillion dollars, 3 million base salary seems very low. Dont get me wront; 3 million a year is insane money to make. I dont think anyone is going to say 3 million is low pay. It just seems so small when you compare it to the company's total value and revenue.

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u/choose_uh_username Jan 13 '23

He leads the most valuable company in the world and isn't a billionaire, people gotta chill out

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u/Crotean Jan 14 '23

He could be a billionaire in ten minutes with amount of apple stock he owns.

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u/Seen_Unseen Jan 14 '23

Compensation is a difficult matter and thanks to publicly compensating CEO's they basically drive up their own value because the pool is super small. But at what point is someone overvalued? Sure enough with Cook Apple has taken a new height, but is that new height 50 million give or take a year worth? When you would look at the bottom line of billions sure but how does he get compensated when looking at the rest of his staff? Is it at that point still reasonable to pay someone 50 million when his front desk helpers are making 25.000? He reaps over 2.000 from what his help desk guys make and let's not even get into when you compare to the rest of the supply chain.

I don't have the answer but same time for someone like Cook who got thrown in the chair of a big company vs Jobs who sort of created Apple, I can fully understand the latter being well rewarded and not so much for the former.

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u/UnstuckCanuck Jan 14 '23

Especially obscene compared to what the average worker - and especially the average sub-contract worker - are paid..

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u/Crotean Jan 14 '23

Or when you look at how much the foxconn workers are paid to make the actual phones they sell.

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u/SuperDerpHero Jan 14 '23

true and vs the value he brings apple with his decisions

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u/[deleted] Jan 13 '23 edited Jan 13 '23

[deleted]

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u/DoctorWorm_ Jan 13 '23

We should go back to the 20:1 ceo pay ratio we had in the 60s. And that should include the impoverished people making his iPhones.

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u/Clewin Jan 13 '23

Or 10:1 as per Japanese CEO to average worker or 11:1 for Germany. I don't know if that has changed much, but that's what I remember from 8-10 years ago when I worked for a German company with a highly paid CEO causing their average to be much higher than even 11:1 and being one imbalance factor (but still under compensated by US standards by about 1/3).

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u/Josvan135 Jan 13 '23

Serious question though, who would possibly take on the kind of unimaginable responsibility of running a company the size and complexity of Apple for $1 million or so?

Like an above commenter pointed out, any solidly successful wall street middle exec can make more than that.

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u/boforbojack Jan 13 '23

I mean I tend to hear, "Don't worry you're also getting paid in experience and exposure".

1

u/Josvan135 Jan 13 '23

Which is bullshit, as you well know.

You take on an internship to make connections, learn valuable skills, and set yourself up for later opportunities.

The CEO of the largest and most profitable company in the world has all the experience and exposure they could possibly need.

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u/sobanz Jan 13 '23

people who are unqualified

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u/wycliffslim Jan 14 '23

I'd run Apple for a million dollars a year. Sign me up.

They could also just have the average salary be higher, and then if you want to give your CEO a huge bonus, you equitably reward the rest of the employees who helped. Sure, you could be a wallstreet exec and get millions, but they also make too much money.

Do you have any idea how much money even a million dollars a year is? Your average American could work for 3 or 4 years, invest their money, retire, and live a comfortable middle class life for the entire rest of their lives. You could work 4 years and then live the rest of your life in relative comfort without ever working again.

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u/Josvan135 Jan 14 '23

I'd run Apple for a million dollars a year. Sign me up.

What are you qualifications?

How large was the P/L of your last role?

What was the scope of your previous employment?

How many divisions were in your direct reports, and how many tens of thousands of people did you manage?

Do you have any idea how much money even a million dollars a year is?

Yeah, it's about as much as a mid-level law partner, senior manager at a FAANG, or vice president at a medium-sized hedge fund makes.

In the spectrum of leadership roles in a business setting you're talking someone who runs teams of 20-30 high-level performers.

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u/wycliffslim Jan 14 '23

So if companies are that profitable maybe everyone should be making more money.

Quite frankly, I don't give a shit how much the CEO or anyone makes. But the fact that executives and high-level employees will get bonuses of millions of dollars worth of stock while your average worker gets a pizza party and an atta-boy is indefensible.

If your publicly traded company is doing so well, and generating so much profit for shareholders that you can justify tens of millions of dollars for a few employees they are also profitable enough to pass on that abundance to ALL of their employees.

C-level salaries in the US have skyrocketed in the last decades while worker wages have stagnated. That's just objective fact. In 1961 the realized CEO pay to employee was 21-1 in 1960's, 61-1 in the 80's and was 293-1 in 2018 and the discrepancy continues to surge ahead.

https://www.epi.org/publication/ceo-compensation-surged-14-in-2019-to-21-3-million-ceos-now-earn-320-times-as-much-as-a-typical-worker/

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u/sobanz Jan 14 '23 edited Jan 14 '23

you would run apple or you would try to run apple?

people with the skillset to run a multibillion(or trillion) dollar company are paid this much because it is a difficult job. cap ceo salary at 1m and the big talent will just make startups for many times that amount. it's simple risk vs reward.

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u/DoctorWorm_ Jan 14 '23

Fucking bullshit, most C-suite folks are overemployed idiots with rich friends who can't keep viruses off their company laptop

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u/erosram Jan 14 '23

This actually makes me think we should spend more on time cook

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u/[deleted] Jan 13 '23

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u/Clewin Jan 13 '23

Steve Jobs took a $1 salary. He got 30+ million in options based on performance and they vested. We're talking base salary, not perks.

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u/astrange Jan 13 '23

Those Japanese CEOs may get paid 10x average worker, but they also get a house, car, helicopter, country club membership etc for their exclusive use that happens to be owned by the company.

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u/chostax- Jan 13 '23

At least the money goes back into the economy? Idk lol it’s definitely the better scenario though.

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u/nutyo Jan 13 '23

All working class money goes back into the economy. Only people who have not only more than they need, but more than want, don't put all their money back into the economy.

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u/gcz77 Jan 13 '23

That is kind of Silly. Apple has lots of Employees making 20 times more than the people working in the stores.

Are you suggesting that Apple should fire the top >50% of it's software developers? Should the CEO job be a pay decrease in comparison to the pool of skilled workers Apple might want to hire from?

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u/DoctorWorm_ Jan 14 '23

I mean, I agree that its hard to immediately adjust wages like that, and it's hard to compete like that when so job markets are so skewed and manipulated. But yes, in an ideal world, office workers would get paid like $200k, ceos would get paid like $1M, and front line retail and manufacturing workers would get paid like $50k ($25/hour)

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u/gcz77 Jan 14 '23 edited Jan 14 '23

I'm not understanding, once you are software developer productive enough to Justify 200 grand salary (between level 1 and 2 at Apple), what is your incentive to work up to 1 million, or move up from development for an even higher salary?

What is the incentive to develop these necessary skills if you will never make more than an entry level developer at Apple?

Are you productive enough to justify a 200 grand salary? Great, there is no point improving beyond that. Hold up. We need really smart people to work on complicated projects, we can't just have people managing packets of information and organizing data!!!

To bad, you make the same 200 grand either way, and anyone productive enough to justify 200 grand has no reason to do anything else. Once a person can contribute 300 or so grand of productivity they have no reason to develop any other skills, which kind of sucks because that's how you get all modern tech.

Have you heard of OpenAi and ChatGPT, awesome innovation, average salary is around a million dollars. Google spends 40 billion a year on R&D, most of which goes to software development, and seems to have unreleased products that perform even better that openAi. Not simply language models but tons and tons of other stuff too. Guess how much the people working in those labs are making?

You need an incentive structure to move an economy, and you are proposing an incentive structure that includes no incentive for people doing the most important and productive jobs.

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u/gingerkids1234 Jan 13 '23

Those people making phones aren't employed by Apple.

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u/astrange Jan 13 '23

"Making phones" isn't an accurate description anyway. They do final assembly, but the expensive parts are made in Taiwan, Japan, or the US. It's not sand in phone out.

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u/ChillyBearGrylls Jan 13 '23

And that should include the impoverished people making his iPhones.

That still won't bring jobs back (or raise wages), Bernie. The only reason workers had that leverage then was underdevelopment elsewhere, to such an extent that some products could not be made outside the "West". Western laborers have to compete with everyone now, and they aren't as entitled.

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u/drewbert Jan 13 '23

> Western laborers have to compete with everyone now, and they aren't as entitled.

Trade agreements exist for a reason, and there's no reason the US couldn't insist that its trade partners give their workers roughly western compensation and follow roughly western environmental policies. Rather than impoverishing Americans to compete with the world, we would be challenging the world to build out the strong middle class that we used to have and used to value.

Republicans do not value hard work anymore. Their policies have made it clear they see anybody willing to work hard as a fool to be exploited for maximum gain.

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u/ChillyBearGrylls Jan 13 '23

there's no reason the US couldn't insist that its trade partners give their workers roughly western compensation and follow roughly western environmental policies

Why would any sovereign State agree to make itself less attractive to foreign investment? The US isn't the only State whose companies are in the labor arbitrage business.

What you want is more easily achieved with tariffs on the American side (a unilateral decree) set to the difference in PPP + environmental regulations + labor protections.

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u/Jethro_Tell Jan 13 '23

Lol, cause the US doesn't need a lot of foreign investment. It needs to own it's ability to make and build the shit it needs so that when people get sick in China it doesn't fuck up the whole supply chain.

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u/ChillyBearGrylls Jan 13 '23

Lmao you completely missed who would be doing what in both posts

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u/continuousQ Jan 13 '23

A trillion dollar company is ridiculous.

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u/[deleted] Jan 13 '23

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u/PhoenixStorm1015 Jan 14 '23

Yes, but the problem with capitalism and corporate mentalities is there IS NO END GAME. There is no goal or plateau or point where the company is happy. They ALWAYS need more. Obviously there are ways a company can improve without simply trying to eternally make more money, but I think it’s safe to say that one option is VERY encouraged in our cultures. I.E. it’s bad to be greedy, unless it’s a company or an entrepreneur, then it suddenly becomes accepted and often expected.

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u/americandream6969 Jan 14 '23

I think once a company is ridiculously wealthy, they should have to split it in two and the staff choose if they want to work for team Ying or team Yang. All the people who don’t like each other can split. Then Apple Ying and Apple Yang compete in the market and the market chooses which side they want to buy from, price is always same.

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u/SheltheRapper Jan 14 '23

You're actually onto something. That's how commerce naturally functions

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u/Ready_to_anything Jan 14 '23

Price would go down since you just destroyed the monopoly they have on their existing IP

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u/tehkier Jan 13 '23

There's no way to be that successful in our current economic system without exploiting others. A trillion is one THOUSAND billions, just so you know.

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u/microsoftpaintt Jan 13 '23

There is exploitation in every economic system, it just manifests in different ways. I'm sure its possible to be that successful in our current economic system, you would just need significantly larger economies of scale and way more time to do it.

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u/Josvan135 Jan 13 '23

Okay, and a million is a THOUSAND thousand, just so you know.

It's just inflation combined with the fact that there are 4 times as many people as there were a century ago, each of whom is statistically vastly richer than their ancestors.

Money is nothing but a representation of value.

People highly value apples products and services, so lots of people spend lots of money buying them.

Their manufacturing is messy, as is virtually every electronics manufacturing.

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u/tehkier Jan 13 '23

Just because others exploit doesn't make it okay to exploit. It's not just inflation when you need to kill child labourers or drive your workers to suicide.

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u/Josvan135 Jan 13 '23

Violations that Apple investigated, reported to Chinese authorities, and played a major role in stopping.

I get it, "big business bad", but cherry picking extreme cases while ignoring the massive improvements to overall global standard of living carried out over the last century is disingenuous at best.

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u/Bitter_Coach_8138 Jan 14 '23

Reddit just wants to be edgy and socialist, that’s why

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u/grimman Jan 14 '23

You're not wrong. But Apple being that big just blows my mind. It's been decades since they had an ounce of morality, and their products are very underwhelming for a tinkerer. It's their way, or get absolutely fucked. And they frequently change their mind, at which point it's their new way, or get triple fucked, bucko.

But I guess if you're into that...

Anyway, uh... a trillion dollar company is ridiculous, if it's Apple. ;)

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u/OneAlmondLane Jan 13 '23

So you don't buy apple products?

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u/lamentheragony Jan 13 '23 edited Jan 13 '23

His compensation is $100 million p.a. He agreed to cut it so about $40 million p.a.

Not good enough Tim Cook!!! Pay back 99.9% of all your wealth and income for the past 30 years, YOU LOUSY CROOK!!!!!

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u/CreamBeaner Jan 13 '23

Reddit moment

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u/Lord_Abort Jan 13 '23

I would settle for companies and wealthy individuals to pay 5% annually.

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u/lamentheragony Jan 13 '23

not enough. need to pare them back so they are level largely with everyone else (apart from differences in their needs).

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u/Lord_Abort Jan 13 '23

While it would flush the government at all levels with tons of liquidity, I'm pretty sure that would quickly destroy the economy. Man, I can't even imagine some of the ripples that would create.

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u/Josvan135 Jan 13 '23

Cool cool, so then you don't want anyone with extraordinary skills, talents, or training to ever pursue high stress, highly responsible employment?

Because if everyone makes the same as your average ditch digger, I can assure you that no one is dealing with the kind of issues that a CEO is dealing with.

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u/lamentheragony Jan 13 '23

There are imany ceos in Finland and nordics who do the same job for 1/1000th the pay. You do not need that size pay to find people to do the job.

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u/Josvan135 Jan 14 '23

1/1000th the pay is $50,000, so I'm going to call bullshit on your figure there just from a basic numerical perspective.

How about you find some actual verifiable figures on Finnish, swedish, and Norwegian CEO pay.

You do not need that size pay to find people to do the job.

Yes, you 100% do.

Find me someone who's actually qualified to run a $2.14 trillion company for $50,000 and I'll show you a bridge I have for sale.

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u/AJ-Taylor Jan 13 '23

As an EMT for $15, I'd like to hear more about the stress these poor CEOs need millions in compensation to cope with.

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u/Josvan135 Jan 14 '23

So when was the last decision you made that had implications for the livelihood and future of 200,000 employees?

You're an EMT, it's a noble profession, you do a lot of good, but you see an average of, what, 8-12 calls per shift?

So assuming you in your entire career, you'll directly impact up to 25,000 people over 40ish years.

The stress is the insane pressure of being in charge of that much of other people's money for decisions that you're directly responsible for, and that you'll be second guessed about at every step along the way.

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u/AJ-Taylor Jan 14 '23

I'm not super interested in debating the most stressful professions, but I really don't think making those decisions would bother me personally. The stakes just aren't that high; people can get new jobs, other companies make phones, and it doesn't matter if people are mad at you if you never need to work another day in your life. But stress is subjective, so maybe Tim Cook is crying himself to sleep every night, I don't know.

I mostly just take issue with the idea that nobody would do that job without ludicrous compensation. Society is held together by people doing essential jobs that pay terribly, because they're passionate about them. Hell, my phone runs an operating system based on one created by people who just like building stuff for free. Running Apple is like Everest for thousands of nerdy tech guys. Elon just paid $44 billion so he could be CEO for his own ego. As long as something is difficult, important, or prestigious, people will want to do it.

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u/musicantz Jan 13 '23

WS partner?

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u/smuckola Jan 13 '23

Don’t worry! He made $99m last year alone, in pay alone, aside from stock and such. Enough for a jillion lifetimes for his whole current family and all descendants forever and ever amen.

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u/MarBoBabyBoy Jan 13 '23

That's only his salary, his stock is worth a lot more than that.

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u/Double_Secret_ Jan 13 '23

His compensation is structured that way to 1.) make him look like he’s a reasonable guy to the public as his salary is “only” a few million and 2.) minimize his tax burden, as his salary income is going to be taxed at nearly 40% without even adding in state income taxes.

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u/Sniffy4 Jan 13 '23

yeah this guy can take a paycut to $1/yr and live comfortably

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u/vagrantprodigy07 Jan 13 '23

Most CEO compensation isn't directly in cash. Stock is very common.

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u/chostax- Jan 13 '23

With a stock as consistent as apples, the equity awards are way more valuable than the salary. 40m in Apple stock could be worth 80m in 5 years. That 3m is nothing in comparison, plus he would get those equity awards at set share prices that are lower than the market price.

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u/abandon__ship Jan 13 '23

Wait, what was wrong?

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u/corbygray528 Jan 13 '23

It's not a 40% salary cut, it's a 40% pay cut. The comment above assumed they're just taking 40% of his 3 million base salary and leaving the rest the same, which is not the case. The base salary amount is actually staying at 3 million, but his other compensations (equity awards) are being greatly reduced.

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u/elzibet Jan 14 '23

Sooooo much better. I don’t really care why he’s doing it, it’s refreshing to see billionaires make less money. Hope it gets invested more into the workers.

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u/abandon__ship Jan 14 '23

Oh wow that’s so much more.

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u/Norgur Jan 13 '23

Oh this gets super meta now: They were incorrect yet weren't displaying any misplaced confidence. You on the other hand slapped them with r/confidentlyincorrect very confidently right from the start. As established above, the post wasn't confidently incorrect but just incorrect, so you were incorrect when you suggested said sub confidently, making yourself r/confidentlyincorrect.

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u/rcklmbr Jan 13 '23 edited Jan 13 '23

That sounds like what the top sports players make, I would think CEO of Apple would make more. Steph Curry makes $48m per year. And that's not including brands paying him

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u/No_Employment_129 Jan 13 '23 edited Jan 13 '23

Isn’t “equity awards” just corporate slang for “investments?” Sooo they’re going to purposefully invest in losing stocks or what? I’ll be honest, I don’t know how any of this works. Just seems like a publicity stunt. He’s not really losing that much of his net worth, relatively speaking.

edit, get upvoted for ignorance, downvoted for admitting ignorance. Good job.

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u/toothpickundernail Jan 13 '23

I assume it just means pay in stock which is normal. a combined CEO salary of 3 milion would be really low for a company the size of apple

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u/Cholupacabra Jan 13 '23

From the article: "Cook has received a $3 million base salary for the past three years, but his total compensation — which includes the restricted awards — jumped from $14.8 million in 2020 to $98.7 million in 2021 and $99.4 million in 2022."

This year the max he could earn is $49 million, i.e a $40 million pay cut

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u/DragonFireCK Jan 13 '23 edited Jan 13 '23

Equity awards are the generic name for restricted stock units (RSUs), employee stock purchase plans (ESPP), stock options, and any other item that gives the person an investment in the company.

RSUs are directly gifting company stock with a vesting schedule. They are heavily used to encourage employees, including c-suite employees, to have an interest in the company doing well as well as to keep them from leaving.

Stock options are mostly used to make employees want the company stock to do well. The employee can make a huge amount of money if the stock goes up, or nothing if the stock goes down.

ESPPs are similar to stock options but mostly target lower level employees. The company sets a portion of your pay aside, at your request, into a savings account, then uses that to buy company stock at a premium. If you become ineligible for the plan before the purchase date, the money set aside will be refunded to you.

​

Of the $40 million, he will get $10 million if he remains CEO of Apple for 4.5 years, with partial amounts being granted each year. That will be given in shares at today's price, so the actual amount will be higher if Apple's value goes up, or less if it goes down.

The remaining $30 million, or 354,392 shares, depends on how Apple does compared to the S&P500 over the next 3 years. The amount is based on Apple preforming above about 80% of the companies on the S&P500. the number of shares will be from 0% to 200% of that number. Again, the actual amounts are in shares, so the actual dollar amount depends on Apple's share price.

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u/No_Employment_129 Jan 13 '23

great info, thank you!

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u/x3knet Jan 13 '23

You're getting downvoted for a combination of your misinformed original reply assuming he's only taking a base salary cut, but still taking in $100 million in equity, which is incorrect. And then admitting you don't know how any of this works which is apparent by thinking that equity compensation means investing in losing stocks, so why even respond in the first place if you don't actually know how comp packages are structured? Why would people upvote that?

I don't mean to sound like an asshole, but that's why you're being downvoted. If you don't know enough about a topic, then don't respond like you do.

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u/zacker150 Jan 13 '23

"equity awards" are stock options and restricted stock units.

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u/RabidGuineaPig007 Jan 13 '23

oh no, down from $99M, should be crowdfund? Is Tim ok?

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u/Salishseahound Jan 13 '23

He sound envious and mad.

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u/djtecha Jan 13 '23

That's because the stock is down that much. He was granted shares, those shares are worth less, he didn't return his rsu grant.

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u/nerdyadventur Jan 13 '23

Seems like he could take more of a hit and be just fine.

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u/type1advocate Jan 14 '23

WTF is a cash incentive? Sounds like tax-dodger speak for "bonus".

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u/Burninator05 Jan 14 '23

Even at $49m a year he's making $23,557 an hour (assuming he works 40 hour weeks which we can safely assume no one at that level does). That's enough that if he worked 1 hour a year he could support a family of 3 and be right at the poverty line for DC.

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u/Jakegender Jan 14 '23

That is rougly 100 mil. Closer than makes any difference to you or me.