Google's head of mental health and wellbeing was among the 12,000 workers laid off by the tech giant

[u/nyxago]

https://www.businessinsider.com/google-layoffs-mental-health-and-wellbeing-director-jobs-workers-tech-2023-1

[u/mediocretes]

Those that survive the layoffs aren’t going to have time for mental health and well-being, they just got a bunch of extra work to do.

[u/SoSoSquish → u/mediocretes]

Tbh the laid off workers at google are the real winners here. That severance package? Wooo

[u/Independent-Show-998 → u/SoSoSquish]

Not really if you're holding a visa

[u/TacTurtle → u/Independent-Show-998]

Visas are one of the biggest cop-outs for US corporations to depress professional wages.

The abuse of the visa system is notoriously widespread, with the companies tailoring job opening descriptions such that the only qualified applicants happen to be visa holders that (conveniently) happen to accept way lower wages than domestic US citizens.

[u/thetalkinghuman → u/TacTurtle]

Had lots of foreign roommates in NYC over the years. Nearly all of them were in a situation like that.

[u/GothProletariat → u/thetalkinghuman]

What's just as bad and not really mentioned is how many contractors the big tech giants hire.

Microsoft used to have like 60% of their workforce be contractors. Not sure what it is now.

What's scary to think about these layoffs is how many of these jobs will never come back as W2 jobs but will be replaced as 1099 jobs with way less benefits.

Google already said that in 2019, they were saving a billion dollars by using contractors instead of employees. This is the future if employment in America. 1099 for everyone

[u/stillSeeking42 → u/GothProletariat]

You are very right. I hope more people got your dark humor.

More and more people are setting themselves up as 1099 contractors for that reason. It is their way of saying, we'll work for less as long as you give us work and you pay us a healthy fraction of what we used to make.

The healthcare advantages that come with corporate jobs were the golden shackles. The grosser the healthcare costs, the bigger the corporate advantage. It is wrong and twisted and anti corporate - because high healthcare costs reduce national competitive advantage which the very corporations are supposed to enhance.

[u/nxqv → u/stillSeeking42]

Makes me think we've been trying to push for healthcare reform in the wrong way. Maybe it should be done in tandem with some major form of employment reform and tax reform

[u/Randomd0g → u/nxqv]

Follow this train of thought for long enough and you realise the answer is "start again from scratch, the whole thing is broken"

[u/[deleted] → u/Randomd0g]

How would that look? I feel like it would just be blood shed that leaves everything in shambles. You start from scratch only to get to exactly where we are. We have to use the institutions we have to iterate towards what we want.

[u/sean_but_not_seen → u/stillSeeking42]

The healthcare advantages that come with corporate jobs were the golden shackles.

What do you mean ”were”? I pay $1200 a month for Kaiser for me and my spouse. I’m self employed. I miss my shackles sometimes.

[u/invalid_dictorian → u/sean_but_not_seen]

That's the type of cost that I'm worried about when I'm done w/ my corporate job (or if the company is done with me.) I've been working for over 20 years and have some money saved up / house paid off. But its just not going to be enough if you factor in a high cost health plan for a family (probably looking at $1500/mo). So that means I'll need to probably work even longer. And I think I'm in a good situation relative to others.

[u/sean_but_not_seen → u/invalid_dictorian]

This is especially true if “done with the corporate world” doesn’t mean retirement age where you get Medicare.

We really need healthcare reform and I’m more and more convinced that corporate America doesn’t want us to get it. Even though it’s costing them a fortune too.

[u/BouquetOfDogs → u/GothProletariat]

What does 1099 mean? Great insight, btw. Didn’t know that it was such a widespread practice amongst big companies (but I should have known).

[u/Web____Nooter → u/BouquetOfDogs]

Well a W2 is an employee of the company 1099 is for contracted work. W2 has requirements for benefits vacation days stuff like that 1099 you technically work for yourself or another entity and are simply reporting the income. Any time you pay someone over $600 over the course of a year you issue a 1099 to them ( this depends on the Nature of compensation but is a general rule)

[u/heili → u/Web____Nooter]

And 1099 abuse is rampant including falsely identifying people as 1099 despite not meeting the criteria.

[u/Salamok → u/heili]

Literally any place that advertises jobs as contract to hire is in violation. If they can contract then convert you to a direct hire and the only noticeable difference is where your check comes from then it is for sure illegal. No one enforces this shit though.

[u/cyanydeez → u/heili]

the worse abuse is when republicans clal them "small business owners"

[u/mejelic → u/Web____Nooter]

W2 has requirements for benefits vacation days stuff like that

Nothing about being an employee mandates benefits. The difference is who pays certain taxes and what the company can or cannot mandate you do (such as the hours you work).

[u/ZorbaTHut → u/mejelic]

Actually, in the US, medium-sized-or-larger full-time employers are now legally required to provide healthcare. Part of Obamacare.

[u/routerg0d → u/Web____Nooter]

Corporations also get to write them off as capital expenses too to reduce taxes.

[u/GothProletariat → u/BouquetOfDogs]

It's the tax form ID for contractor workers. W2 is for real company employees while 1099 is for contractors(non-employees).

I think this will be a major front and center political and economic issue in a few years.

[u/chonny → u/BouquetOfDogs]

As others have said, it means you're a contractor. It also means that you get to pay payroll taxes (the taxes that companies take out of your check before paying you) and pay for healthcare. It's a lot to pay out.

Realistically, whatever your rate is as a 1099, you should count on taking home about 2/3 of that. So, if your yearly "salary" is $80k, you're actually taking home under 53k give or take. And, if you fuck up your taxes (business expenses, etc), the IRS comes at you hard.

That said, I successfully stood up for myself when my first employer decided to be cheap and thought I didn't know any better. The key to protecting yourself if you find yourself in a situation where you're obviously a W2 but are getting a 1099 is to:

a) pay your taxes as an independent contractor

b) document the hell out of everything, specifically any communication that indicates that your employer controls when/where/how you do your job

c) file an SS-8 with the IRS https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/fss8.pdf

d) contact your state's labor board to see if you have any recourse (because of state taxes)

e) if the IRS finds in your favor, you get the taxes that you paid out back (not fully, though a substantial amount because you woild still have had to pay taxes as an employee)

[u/Shatteredreality → u/GothProletariat]

Just to be clear about one thing. In the tech world (at least today) being a “contractor” doesn’t usually mean a 1099.

It usually means you are a w2 employee for a third party company who is “contracted” to provide labor for another company.

In that case they can still do things like set your hours, work location, etc.

Working in tech (software engineering) I’ve never actually met anyone who is contracting as a 1099.

[u/ikeif → u/GothProletariat]

I have worked at a few fortune 400 companies, and what I always saw:

1. New CTO would complain about staffing and expenses
2. Offshore all the things! (To a relative’s firm)

Few years pass…

1. CTO/execs complain about too many contractors! We need loyal employees!
2. cut all the offshore! Limit contracts to 18 months!

Few years pass, repeat.

[u/Aarschotdachaubucha → u/TacTurtle]

Or, alternatively you put managers in charge of the hiring that are themselves visa holders to ensure they only hire H1Bs and do so with a mix of racist/nationalist preferences.

[u/adfthgchjg → u/Aarschotdachaubucha]

Yup. In the tech industry it’s very common for an Indian manager in the USA to have his team rapidly increase the percentage of team members of India descent, and decrease the percentage of all other ethnic backgrounds.

[u/Redditanother → u/adfthgchjg]

Can confirm.

[u/Ioncannon → u/adfthgchjg]

Not just US, Canada too. Know someone who works for the gov. as an accountant. New Indian manager got rid of the diverse staff and hired nothing but Indians.

The staff complained and the manager said they (a mix of races but mostly Asians) were racist and shut down any investigation.

[u/guerrieredelumiere → u/Ioncannon]

Most canadian anecdote I've heard in a long time. But yeah that's just so common. It is ridiculous.

[u/Outlulz → u/adfthgchjg]

I had a director whose nepotism and biases were clear as day. Not only did he move us to outsourcing the team to India but he chose the outsourcing company he used to work for in India as our vendor. It was NOT the best choice as the vendor was not known for doing our industry's type of customer service and were not equipped for it. I get trying to pull up people back at home but it was at great sacrifice for the customers and all the US employees that had to do all the extra work the outsourced employees were not picking up.

Also everyone in my management chain up to CEO is an Indian immigrant which is statistically unlikely but sounds common in tech?

[u/goobersmooch → u/adfthgchjg]

The Indian Underground Railroad is very real. Join me on blind and I’ll tell you all about it.

[u/speculativeSpectator → u/adfthgchjg]

Not just in the US. I can’t speak for other countries, but I have seen this happen multiple tech MNCs in Singapore.

[u/cadublin → u/TacTurtle]

Have you seen how much H1B make at Google? My direct reports who hold H1B makes between 150k to 170k base plus 10-20% bonus, and the company we work for is only 10% of Google in term of revenues.

[u/enjoytheshow → u/cadublin]

10% of googles revenue is pretty damn big lol

[u/cadublin → u/enjoytheshow]

Yeah it is 🙂. It's one of the lesser known chip companies. We make products critical to data and communication industries.

[u/Only-Inspector-3782 → u/cadublin]

My H1Bs and US workers at a big tech company have no material difference in comp. If anything, we spend more money on the H1Bs in legal support.

[u/winkingchef → u/TacTurtle]

I would like to refute this statement in the strongest possible terms.

I run a big team that pays pretty damn well for Silly Con Valley. I would LOVE to hire people who are qualified and don’t need the extra headache of visas. I am one of the folks looking and I literally can’t find enough of them.

The fact of the matter is, the US university system doesn’t graduate enough non-visa engineers to meet our needs. This is partially because our High Schools are letting us down, PARTICULARLY in the area of young women. We need to fix this. I am doing what I can (e.g. giving awards to top-rated science and math teachers in our school district) but I’m just a small cog and I can’t move very much by myself.

If you surveyed the graduating classes of the top US engineering schools, you would find 90% of the top quartile (the people we all want to hire) are here on student visas (and hence will need H1 sponsorship). If I can’t hire them, my company will fall behind.

This was true as far back as the 1990’s when I graduated and it’s only gotten worse since.

[u/romario77 → u/winkingchef]

You are still getting depressed wages if you are on visa. If you want to get a green card you have to stay with the same employer through the process which is very lengthy. Which means you are forced to accept whatever employer gives you.

If you are laid off you have to find a new job within weeks which means that you most likely will take not the best job.

Making visa not tied to employer will automatically solve this problem, but the law was drafter by US employers, so it stays the way it is.

Another thing is that the spouse of H1b holder can't work - I really don't understand that provision. You could have someone who could work and you force them to sit at home for a long time (usually unit green card is granted) in which time they will lose qualification and would have hard time joining work pool.

[u/PacmanIncarnate → u/winkingchef]

My gut is that you are wrong for blaming high schools. I believe most state universities have substantially increased the percentage of foreign students in their masters programs over the last 20 years, largely due to funding shortfalls making in state tuition less sustainable. (Google search seems to confirm a huge increase in that time period.)

It’s completely up to schools as to how many locals versus out of state/foreigners they take. I find it hard to believe that change has been driven primarily by the quality of high school education and not by something financial.

[u/Gabooll → u/winkingchef]

Why not you know maybe leave a little out of that top quartile. GPA does not always equal skill... I bet there are loads of people that would easily be at top quartiles given they didn't have to deal with art history classes etc. Also work is not school, I worked for a company where the best engineer didn't even go to school, and clawed his way up. Dude was crazy intelligent, just stars didn't align for him to go to college right away.

[u/kat_the_houseplant → u/Gabooll]

Yes!! There are often personal situations that make GPA go down. I was caring for my mom with cancer while I was in college. I got decent grades (above 3.0) but it was only possible by choosing an easier major and dropping a minor I wanted and transferring to an easier college. It sucks but that’s what life required of me. The stress of it all made me develop an autoimmune disease too which made me have to miss class sometimes and that further tanked my grades due to stupid attendance grades. I fought some of it with student disability services, but I often just didn’t have the time or energy to fight some of it. Grades mean NOTHING.

[u/TacTurtle → u/winkingchef]

Hiring H1Bs are effectively lowering wage offerings in the US by undercutting domestic talent costs, so there is less incentive for people in the US to pursue technical education.

Your industry did this to itself via outsourcing in the 1990s. All of those potential mentors, experience, and what would now be senior devs were cut loose as cost savings.

They who sowed the wind hath reaped the whirlwind, or they would if they were actually held accountable and were prevent from exploiting H1Bs as an out.

[u/No_Animator_8599 → u/TacTurtle]

I was outsourced in 2012 and my career was definitely impacted by Visa employees and direct outsourcing overseas. I was forced to retire 3 years earlier than I wanted because technical interviews became impossible to pass, not counting the ridiculous on-line coding tests, often with interviewers watching you (either on-line or in an interview; I had two guys watching my every keystroke in an interview several years ago as I was asked to debug code I’d never seen before. I guess my prior 20+ years working on the technology meant nothing.

I suspect the main reason for this is resume fraud done by Indian Visa holders, resulting in nobody trusting that anybody could do the work unless you proved it right in front of them. I know this because I had Indian managers and colleagues who told me they saw this too frequently in hiring or job interviews, and it annoyed them.

I was in the field from 1980-2017 and I saw how the interview process started slowly changing into unreasonable expectations.

An ex colleague of mine mentioned recently he was tired of being asked to code bubble sorts on demand knowing he would never use it.

Glad I’m out of the industry. I advise all younger people to avoid programming as a career, and to look at other technical paths because of this nonsense. Not only that, but each year the laundry list of skills demanded keeps growing and AI is definitely going to have a major impact on basic coding jobs within the next decade.

[u/kya-hua-bhai → u/TacTurtle]

H1b holder here. How does company like google or other big companies do this legally? Serious question. I thought I am paid same as if I were not a h1b holder.

From my experience, if company hires me directly as an employee then they have to pay the same wage as they would if I were not a h1b holder. At legally. Now if google is bringing me as a temp worker through a middle man, then I do not think google has any say in how the middle man pays me. am I wrong ?

[u/TacTurtle → u/kya-hua-bhai]

The job descriptions are written such that a US worker that would ask for a higher wage cannot meet the “requirements”, so they can then farm out the job the H1Bs.

If the US companies couldn’t hire H1Bs, then they would offer more $ to attract US based workers. This in turn would attract more US citizens to study tech and apply for those lucrative jobs.

The excuse the companies offer is “we can’t find US workers” - but what they deliberately omit from the end is “because we won’t offer sufficient wages to attract US workers”.

[u/kya-hua-bhai → u/TacTurtle]

Wow, I had no idea. Most of the times h1b folks do not negotiate pay as finding an employer willing to sponsor visa is difficult in itself.

[u/C_IsForCookie → u/SoSoSquish]

I work for another very large tech company that just went through a few rounds of layoffs in the past 6 months (the last one being a couple of weeks ago). I kept praying they’d lay me off. I would have collected the fattest check ever. Unfortunately I still have my job and I’m hating every minute of it.

[u/ImJLu → u/C_IsForCookie]

Amazon moment

[u/C_IsForCookie → u/ImJLu]

Lol not Amazon but one of my coworkers did just get hired there and I thought she was crazy for making that move. I hate my job because I’m unhappy with what I do but the environment actually isn’t bad. The company I work for just got a new CEO though (you can probably figure out which one it is now) and he doesn’t seem very employee friendly but we’ll see how it goes.

[u/ClassicManeuver → u/C_IsForCookie]

Tweet tweet mutherfucka

[u/OhTheHueManatee → u/SoSoSquish]

I have been passed over for lots of layoffs at my company (no idea how/why). I've never heard of a severance package that seemed worth the insecurity of not having a job. Maybe it's different with Google though.

[u/firebunbun → u/OhTheHueManatee]

Someone posted a letter they got from google that they'd be let go in November this year. He was being offered his entire bonus for the year, 6 months of pay after his job ended, and up to 120 hours of job training in any field he desired, paid for by the company, to help his transition.

People fail to acknowledge he was a very critical senior employee. Severance packages are not assured to have been as nice for most, if even many, employees. Still, it's easy to draw an assumption that the other packages were probably really nice, so it was a good PR win for google that the package happened to get posted.

Conspiratorily, you might say it was such a good PR win it might have been planned or silently required it was published, and I saw some people claiming that, but don't believe it myself.

[u/Nuadrin248 → u/SoSoSquish]

Average time to find a job is around 5-6 months. That severance will run out for a lot of those folks and they will suffer greatly. They will suffer metal health effects as well before that happens. I work in tech and over the last 3 years I’ve seen it countless times and even experienced it myself when I went through it in the pandemic layoffs(worked for a tech company that specialized in retail software at the time). This is not a blessing, this is not ok, and no one that was laid off is a winner.

[u/The_Clarence → u/Nuadrin248]

Thank you!

We had a round like this and yes “big checks” were given out, but I will tell you essentially every single person who it affected was stressed out of their minds. Until the new job is in the bag it will impact their mental well being. Even people who got them relatively quickly still had some weeks of distress

And folks on visas… god they had it the worst.

[u/Nuadrin248 → u/The_Clarence]

Yeah my heart is with all of you. My layoff was rough so I hope for a quick and easy transition for everyone right now.

[u/stakoverflo → u/Nuadrin248]

Average time to find a job is around 5-6 months.

Average time for who?

As an absolutely mediocre software developer, when I lost my first job I was back employed in 2 weeks. The second time, it took about 4 months and that's explicitly because I was picky and trying to find a truly remote job and not just one that's "remote but you gotta be near our office in case you need to go in".

I highly doubt someone with Google on their resume will take half a year to find another job except for by choice.

[u/Nuadrin248 → u/stakoverflo]

Software engineers are not the only people at your company. Getting hired in other depts can be much more challenging, I am not an engineer. I am an onboarding consultant in professional services. My field’s hiring process in tech and the pool they draw from are very different and the same goes for CSM, sales, CS, AM, finance, and HR. Not everyone who is let go will be an engineer.

[u/MBP80 → u/stakoverflo]

In this job market, if it takes you 5-6 months to find a job, you're absolutely doing it wrong.

[u/wRolf → u/[deleted]]

Bro, don't do their jobs too. Or do it half assed and complain. Your mental health is way more important than what's essentially making less for more work. I was that sucker once before. It's not worth it. If they fire you, find another job, it's not the end of the world, might even be a blessing in disguise and you'll find a better job that'll make you more money elsewhere. Don't let corporate overlords reign over you like that.

[u/hightrix → u/[deleted]]

Time to flip the switch. Work your exact 8 hours and then leave, turn off the laptop and phone, and just stop working every day at 8 hours on the dot.

I did this a while ago and taken it with me to new jobs. I don’t work the 60+ that I used to but I’m still about 95% as productive as the dudes that are working those crazy hours.

Yes the big boys are laying off, but you’ve seen probably just as much as I have that everyone else is still hiring.

[u/CircaSurvivor55 → u/hightrix]

But but but... that's quiet quitting! You are clearly the problem... no one wants to work anymore!

/s obviously. I hate this bullshit so much.

[u/SlowMotionPanic → u/CircaSurvivor55]

Media outlet owned by non-working rich people, used to massage pro-them messages into our brains.

I’ve heard many experiences like OP’s. My spouse is living it. Some of my peers in other departments are being crushed by it.

Just like corporations have realized they can greed-inflate prices until we reach a breaking point then back off a little to double or triple profits, so too are they realizing employees will tolerate being squeezed.

Doing the work of one person isn’t enough anymore for the rich parasites. Now they want us to do the work of 2-3 or more people. Normally I’d discount this as just another Blind trend, but actual personal examples help me understand that this is very real.

And that all segues into “quiet hiring” (groan). That is, employers “evolving” your job responsibilities to be vastly different than your actual job, but without the promotion or pay.

[u/[deleted]]

PANIC ATTACKS ARE BACK ON THE MENU, BOYS.

[u/jrhoffa → u/[deleted]]

I'd quit a job before quitting myself.

[u/8hundredpounds → u/jrhoffa]

Easy to say when you’re not in the middle of it. I just had to take FMLA leave because I was so burnt out I was manifesting physical symptoms.

[u/misa_misa → u/8hundredpounds]

Same here (also in tech). I took FMLA last year for mental health. I LITERALLY couldn't even write an email due to burnout, depression, and every other ailment associated with those. I was sick all the time, and my shoulders were like rocks from all the stress.

I would stare at my computer and do nothing. I WANTED to work and knew that I would be fired if I stayed like this. But I physically and mentally couldn't, it was awful.

[u/Monteze → u/8hundredpounds]

Yeah got out of retail management for similar things. I was starting to lose my humanity and be hateful. Jobs just don't care about people, our system needs work.

[u/8hundredpounds → u/Monteze]

I stressed out for weeeeeks before going on leave. Thank (insert chosen deity) for short term disability insurance in CA.
It took about a week for me to stop jumping at every phone call.

[u/Monteze → u/8hundredpounds]

It's crazy how that constant vigilance creeps up on you.

[u/8hundredpounds → u/Monteze]

Lizard brain stupid. Lizard brain love patterns. Lizard brain need rest before more rational thinking happen. 😵

[u/Balor675 → u/8hundredpounds]

Yeah I started having heart palpatations before taking paternity leave. Magically stopped when I was no longer working, even with the stress of a newborn. Imagine that.

[u/8hundredpounds → u/Balor675]

lol right! After two days off, and the knowledge I wouldn’t have to go back for a while, I suddenly stopped waking up violently nauseous every day.

[u/NecroCannon → u/8hundredpounds]

It’s getting harder and harder to stand, I had to reduce my work days from 4 to 3.

It might not sound like much but I work in a management position with 9 hour shifts with only 15 minute breaks and they keep scheduling me to come in earlier and earlier throughout a week making it hard for me to sleep and heal. One of my off days I still have to come in for the meetings. Something’s going wrong with my legs, but I can’t afford to go to the doctor yet so reducing my work days is my only choice for now. I really hope I don’t lose them…

[u/eolson3 → u/NecroCannon]

Could be circulatory. That shit will kill you. Seeing a GP could at least give you a sense of what's going on.

[u/stuffZACKlikes → u/8hundredpounds]

Shit, I should take better care of myself. My focus is so split from juggling different things my eye twitches at the end of pretty much every day, even weekends. I just keep going because if I stop it'll only get worse.

[u/Dredly → u/jrhoffa]

The amazing thing, is you don't really notice. it tends to happen gradually over years, and the stress of "What happens if I'm NOT working and bringing in all the money" overwhelms the stress of "What if I'm not taking care of myself"

​

and by the time you realize that you quit yourself, its often way to late to do anything about it

[u/rando194874 → u/[deleted]]

As someone with a lot work anxiety right now, this actually made me feel a lot better. Thanks!

[u/ProphetKB → u/[deleted]]

We've had one panic attack, yes. What about a second panic attack?

[u/[deleted] → u/ProphetKB]

I don't think he knows about depressionsies.

[u/Ramaniso → u/[deleted]]

Ah. I hate myself for laughing. But this is unfortunately true. Am not even at google and the news might give me a panic attack

[u/Teastainedeye]

ChatGPT will handle mental health and well-being from here on.

[u/Oceanswave → u/Teastainedeye]

Competitor’s software

[u/ChiaraStellata → u/Teastainedeye]

You joke but honestly ChatGPT is getting to be a big part of my support system. Therapists are highly-trained experts and really valuable, but they can't always be there. ChatGPT is always available and totally free, and it's invariably thoughtful and compassionate. Everybody should be taking advantage of it.

[u/phoonie98]

Sounds like a position headed by Gavin Belson’s guru at Hooli

[u/baranovich → u/phoonie98]

I was thinking exactly the same thing

[u/Freakoid3005]

Big brain move, if you fire everyone then you don't have to worry about the mental health of your employees!

[u/santagoo → u/[deleted]]

Layoffs will continue until morale improves...

[u/Striker37 → u/Freakoid3005]

They fired MAYBE 5% of their workforce. Google employs a LOT of people.

[u/Galvanized-Sorbet → u/Striker37]

But those were the unhappy 5%. Everyone left is super excited 😅

[u/bad_n_bougie69]

Im convinced these bullshit jobs are added to show growth in the good times and first to be cut to appease stockholders in the bad

[u/Saneless → u/bad_n_bougie69]

Yep. Earnings call 1: we've had a lot of growth. We're hiring a bunch of people to manage it because holy moly it's so much stuff that the workers will help grow it even more

One year later: that didn't happen because of completely external things, not our leadership whatsoever. We're going to lay off people to cut costs. Please like us

[u/benjtay → u/Saneless]

because of completely external things

No no no no. The 2023 buzzphrase is "macro economic conditions".

[u/Nong_Chul → u/benjtay]

No MLK quote? Disappointed.

[u/OneBrickShy58 → u/benjtay]

Oh god. It’s so fucking transparent. They say it in a way to both inspire fear and imply you know what they are talking about. The macro economic conditions means I can’t get a raise to coincide with inflation? Well fuck you then.

[u/pizzzahero → u/benjtay]

CEOs in 2020: "Wow; we've seen 200% growth in 8 months! This trend will definitely continue even though it was caused by a massively anomalous, once in a lifetime event that impacted every single person on earth. Let's make long term decisions using this information!"

[u/ende76 → u/benjtay]

"different reality" is the most grating one for me.

[u/Cryptic0677 → u/Saneless]

Good times: we are so awesome look how much money we’re making! Let’s give the executives big bonuses?

Bad times: everything is terrible but it’s definitely not anything we did it’s just how the market is, how can we expect our executives to take a pay cut for something that isn’t their fault? Oh by the way we need to lay off ten percent of our staff to save money, we should give some of that to our executives for saving shareholders money!

[u/RelativeChance → u/bad_n_bougie69]

One of the first few lines of the article says that she was working at the company for almost 15 years so this was not a job they just manufactured to be cut during a downturn

[u/hotredsam2 → u/bad_n_bougie69]

One of my business professors also thinks that they are trying to take talent off the market so competition has a harder time getting good staff

[u/ImportantEvidence280 → u/hotredsam2]

I'm sure all the big tech companies are fighting over heads of mental health and wellbeing.

[u/sincerely_ignatius → u/hotredsam2]

100%. hiring engineers by itself is a business strategy. hoarding talent. Something tells me head of mental health is not one of those super important types of positions.

[u/BillyShears17 → u/bad_n_bougie69]

A minority shareholder as a matter of fact! A dude who has no real power managed to squeeze Sundar's balls!

[u/Prodigy195 → u/BillyShears17]

That investor had likely zero to do with these cuts. Don't let him be the scapegoat. This was a decision by Google execs and founders.

[u/letsbefrds → u/Prodigy195]

Wasn't there a letter to the CEO from big share holders to cut jobs?

Honestly though, Google has a project management problem they keep pumping out apps and deleting them.

Apparently it's a way for PMs to get promoted or something. I think I've had 5 messenger apps from Google already.

[u/Prodigy195 → u/letsbefrds]

Yeah the guy from TCI fund wrote a letter.

My point is that people keep pointing the finger at him as if his letter was the impetus for making these cuts happen. It wasn't that hedge fund that prompted this.

[u/AtomWorker → u/letsbefrds]

The letter was written after this wave of layoffs was announced. That guy wants to see even deeper cuts.

[u/[deleted] → u/BillyShears17]

[removed] — view removed comment

[u/DarkwingDuckHunt → u/[deleted]]

0.5%, of a S&P 500 company, is actually a giant chunk of a company by wallstreet standards.

[u/bad_n_bougie69 → u/BillyShears17]

Im pretty sure Redditors have no idea how high level investors work, let alone better than the CEO of Alphabet

[u/speedlimits65 → u/bad_n_bougie69]

100%. our company had multiple complaints by staff and patients regarding issues with racism. hired a DEI director for $200k who wasnt allowed to make any changes and left the company after 9 months. management patted themselves on the back for overcoming diversity and being anti-racist. for black history month i shit you not they served us fried chicken.

[u/horsepuncher]

During a “recession “ anything looking out for the disposable workers is no longer needed. Time to layoff half , tell the existing half to double up their workload, and explain no raise this year sorry.

[u/UnevenSquirrelPerch → u/horsepuncher]

These big companies are literally doing layoffs just because... Everyone else is doing layoffs 🙄 https://news.stanford.edu/2022/12/05/explains-recent-tech-layoffs-worried/

[u/horsepuncher → u/UnevenSquirrelPerch]

Yes,financially there is no reason for layoffs with any of these companies. Only guess i have is clever layoffs to those about to cash in on on stocks promised at hiring

[u/WritingRites → u/horsepuncher]

No one wants to work!

By the way, we dont need these workers..

[u/w3bCraw1er]

Mental health, Diversity; these are the first jobs to go. You know these are just farce from management.

[u/mrgreyeyes]

Head of wellbeing sounds really expendable.

[u/cabur → u/mrgreyeyes]

Yeh nobody talking about how that position def sounds like a padded job that had a expiration anyway. There are plenty of ways to ensure employee wellbeing that don’t need a fucking executive position for it.

[u/melteemarshmelloo → u/cabur]

buy the workers a pizza party every quarter, don't forget the soda and napkins and some pats on the back

​

NO YOU CANNOT HAVE A RAISE!!!!

[u/correcthorsestapler → u/melteemarshmelloo]

“Sorry, times are tough. We all gotta make sacrifices.”

drives off in their brand new $80k pickup

[u/Giannie → u/cabur]

In an organisation of that size, if you’re serious about maintaining policies that support and maintain employee wellbeing, then an executive position is definitely appropriate.

A good executive in that position will challenge other executives to ensure the company wide policies do not compromise the wellbeing of employees.

Obviously that is exactly what these executives do every day /s

[u/doobur → u/mrgreyeyes]

Lol for real

Oh No! They fired the cheerleaders to keep the quarterback! What will the team do now!?

[u/macrocosm93]

"What would you say you do here?"

[u/Substantial_Sun_8477]

Well, if he starts his own company he has at least 12k new potential clients.

[u/DoesntWantToBe]

"Filings Google made in California show that the company laid off dozens of directors across various divisions in the state."

Sucks they seem to have cut so many high level developers and all, but can't really go wrong by cutting down on managers during layoffs.

Dozens of directors, a head of mental health and well-being, and according to the article "many people" in the health and well-being...team?!

How does anyone take that seriously? I can't even take HR seriously since they started calling themselves POps.

[u/lkhsnvslkvgcla → u/DoesntWantToBe]

"Filings Google made in California show that the company laid off dozens of directors across various divisions in the state."

when they're laying off thousands in the state, "dozens" of directors doesn't sound like a lot after all.

[u/captain_awesomesauce → u/lkhsnvslkvgcla]

dozens of directors = hundreds of managers = thousands of employees?

[u/alpacafox → u/[deleted]]

I don't know about every company, but the companies I worked for had this as a standard task of every team lead and manager: Keep your people happy and motivated.

[u/Jesukii]

Don't you know that Covid is over, so we don't have to worry about mental health anymore!

[u/Chahk → u/Jesukii]

Everyone is mentally healed already. Job well done!

[u/BigTradeDeal69_420]

What the hell does a head of mental health and well-being do, weekly all-company meditation calls on Google Meet?

[u/brettmjohnson → u/BigTradeDeal69_420]

Before I retired 5 years ago, Google strived to tip the work/life balance toward "work". They did this by helping out on the life part. The cafes served better food than you could get in most restaurants in the Mountain View/Sunnyvale area. They had in-house laundry/dry-cleaning drop-offs. Plush new mother nursing rooms, and equally plush massage rooms. Indoor and outdoor sports and physical fitness. Music rooms to chill and practice. Meditation booths to relax and focus. All the bathrooms had Toto Washlet bidet toilets (which I installed in my house). They did a bunch to support your non-work life in order let you focus on your work life.

While I was working for Google, my wife died after a prolonged illness. Outside of that, the work pace and expectations were high, leading to great stress. These things affect one's mental well-being. In facilities with thousands of employees, mental health services fit in with all of the other life services provided.

What we are seeing now is the conversion of the tech industry toward a more traditional manufacturing industry, where the employees are seen as disposable and easily replaceable. Across the sector, more than 200,000 people have been turfed in the last few months. When everybody is firing and nobody is hiring, this is the perfect time to launch a new start-up.

[u/Gyalgatine → u/brettmjohnson]

Google layoffee here. Am now working on my own startup as well. Got a pretty generous severance package so hey, why not. Google basically just gave me seed funding with no strings attached.

[u/JH_1999 → u/Gyalgatine]

What kind of startup?

[u/Gyalgatine → u/JH_1999]

Been working on a video game for the last 5 years in my free time. It's been a passion project and now I finally have the time and the money to try to finish it full time! I know it's not likely to make money, but I enjoy it and I'm still fairly young, so why not. :)

Worst case, it fails I'll have learned a bunch of stuff about management/entrepreneurship and I'll hopefully have something nice to have on my resume next year.

[u/TitoJackson5 → u/Gyalgatine]

Awesome! Best of luck.

[u/okawei → u/Gyalgatine]

I wish I was laid off by google for this exact reason lol

[u/Gyalgatine → u/okawei]

Yea, honestly I'm not all that unhappy about being laid off. But maybe this will change in a few months once I start feeling the pressure of the money fizzling out.

[u/panda_bear_ → u/Gyalgatine]

Hey, another Google layoffee here. Produced playwright and content expert during the day.

You need anything to do with words, I’d be happy to offer what I can do your video game.

[u/DevAway22314 → u/brettmjohnson]

What we are seeing now is the conversion of the tech industry toward a more traditional manufacturing industry, where the employees are seen as disposable and easily replaceable

I think that is a bit too extreme of a view. A year ago we had the best market in history for tech workers, this is just a bit of a return to the mean. Certainly no one is rolling out the red carpet anymore, but tech workers are still getting treated like working professionals with money and perks

When everybody is firing and nobody is hiring, this is the perfect time to launch a new start-up

In terms of finding talent, sure. The biggest problem for start-ups is capital though, which is not easy to find. The ease of start-up capital a couple years ago was a big driver of the hiring frenzy

[u/MooseHeckler → u/brettmjohnson]

I am sorry about your wife. The recent change at Google is sobering, the industry seemed like a safe haven compared to other industries.

[u/OaklandToker]

Sundar promised no layoffs and that they would focus on increasing efficiency. How is anyone under him going to follow his leadership in the future? Surely, with a heavy pinch of salt.

[u/HP844182 → u/OaklandToker]

Probably because they get paid to

[u/seeafish → u/[deleted]]

It makes me sad to admit it, but you’re right. Like 100% right.

Even people who feign dismay and talk shit about the CEO ultimately take home a healthy 6 figures with stonks and bonuses. They buy cars and houses, eat steaks and sushi, travel the world, all while very upset that the fat cats at the top make these types of decisions.

Turns out us humans are really easy to keep in line.

[u/Simba7 → u/[deleted]]

40-50k is good sellout money when you have a lot of little things to sell out on. That really adds up!

[u/Wannaliveinpenthouse → u/OaklandToker]

He only follows the board because they gave him the place he has now. The rest is all PR bullshit. Layoff 10000 employee he’s still CEO, share price kept tanking, he might be the one getting layoff.

[u/icantfindanametwice → u/Wannaliveinpenthouse]

It’s a mystery why he’s not getting fired really. Worst CEO performance of the Nasdaq and unlike say Mark, or Elno, he isn’t a founder, owner, or holder of the vaunted voting class shares that give him all the options.

Then again, Page dated his underling Mayer so maybe they’re giving Sundar extra time to …finish fishing from the company pool?

[u/Maze_of_Ith7 → u/icantfindanametwice]

He really isn’t the right guy.

They picked him because he got along splendidly with everyone which is a recipe for stasis. To his credit he is great testifying in front of Congressional subcommittees.

I’d either want an innovator or someone Ops/cost focused, he is neither.

[u/WearSomeClothes → u/Maze_of_Ith7]

Didn't Sundar lead the creation of Chrome ? That is what vaunted him up the corporate ladder.

He is successful tech knowing manager.

And you sure do not need a pure bean counter for tech company. That is how the rot begins.

[u/ShowerVagina → u/Wannaliveinpenthouse]

Let's say 10k employees cost the company 300k each a year on average. $3b total. Google's operating costs were $176b in 2022, up 26% from 2021.

They're saving a little more than 5% in operating costs while at the same time damaging their reputation, losing their spent, and turning away potential future talent. The amount they're cutting is about the same as what they hired last year.

They should have just done a hiring freeze.

[u/dr3wzy10 → u/ShowerVagina]

Ah, yes but then the shareholders would worry that there isn't constant growth! /s

[u/Jofai → u/ShowerVagina]

Just a quick math check: $3B / $176B is 1.7%, not 5%+. But your numbers probably are wrong; the OpEx from the 12 months (Q3'21 - Q3'22) from the last report are over $200B (my guess is ~$210B, but we'll find out for sure on Thurs).

So yeah, it's actually even less impactful.

[u/g0ing_postal → u/ShowerVagina]

There's a lot more damage than that-

• You lose institutional knowledge. Things that an experienced engineer knew how to fix in a couple hours are now days long debugging sessions

• You break down communications. The person you normally contact to get things done is gone. Now you need to go find someone else, who may not have the context or experience of the person before them

• you damage morale. Why work hard when anyone can be laid off for seemingly no reason?

• you impact timelines. Projects are planned with x resources to be completed by y date. If you have fewer resources then it takes longer to complete the project

[u/wood_orange443 → u/OaklandToker]

I don’t remember him promising no layoffs. Do you have a source?

[u/mtsai → u/wood_orange443]

theres zero change any ceo would promise that. recessions are cyclical, its guaranteed.

[u/big_orange_ball → u/mtsai]

There is so much blatantly incorrect info in this thread it's ridiculous. So many /r/confidentlyincorrect people who know far less than what they're trying to convince others of.

[u/way2lazy2care → u/wood_orange443]

The only thing I remember him promising was a thinly veiled way of saying, "expect layoffs," in their simplicity sprint.

[u/Sad_Damage_1194 → u/OaklandToker]

Employment is all about cognitive dissonance. You have to believe your full-time job is “permanent” and show loyalty to the company, all while knowing nothing (save for change) is permanent, and they hold no loyalty whatsoever to you. They say business isn’t personal while knowing it’s extremely personal. You have to ignore that and tow the party line. Nothing makes sense… not the way I see it.

[u/jmc323 → u/Sad_Damage_1194]

Had a dude from my company who had been there for like 10-15 years. Didn't really know him personally too well but had crossed paths occasionally. I knew his reputation as someone who knew damn near everything about most of our systems and software, with a bit of an abrasive and conceited personality but still someone valuable and vital with all of his knowledge.

He got caught up in the layoffs that eventually hit following Covid. Guessing maybe he had an inflated salary and it looked like a good chunk of change to chop off on a spreadsheet to some executive or higher level manager. I'm sure he was practically nameless to them.

Dude had a full blown meltdown on LinkedIn, I mean it was like a public mental implosion that went on for days and days, rivaling the worst romantic relationship breakup disasters I've ever seen. Just a barrage of posts about "I gave so much of myself to this company, how could you do this to me, I'm broken, devastated, etc., etc." He even came back on over a year later freaking out about getting some news about the company in his news feed.

All I could think reading through the mayhem was holy fuck dude, it's a job. Just a paycheck. Why would you ever think some faceless corporation was going to actually give a fuck about you or anything other than its bottom line? Yeah you blow smoke up their ass about the company mission or whatever while you're there because that's the game, but I didn't think anyone really bought into that shit besides a very, very few in very small organizations where they're actually truly passionate about some work and not just there to get paid.

[u/lovetron99 → u/jmc323]

There's a lesson in here, and I think it's an important one: stop giving so much to your employer. Stop canceling vacations, stop working so much voluntary overtime, stop missing the kids' piano recitals, stop missing family meals, all for a company that has no allegiance or loyalty to you. Go in, do your job, do it well, go home. Tomorrow is promised to no one.

[u/-RadarRanger- → u/Sad_Damage_1194]

You have to ignore that and tow toe the party line

FTFY

You're not pulling water-skiers, you're walking up to an imaginary line drawn in the dirt and not daring to cross it.

[u/skratchx → u/Sad_Damage_1194]

Just FYI it's toe the line not tow.

[u/divertiti → u/OaklandToker]

He never promised no layoffs, that's entirely made up

[u/IHate2ChooseUserName → u/OaklandToker]

if you trust your CEO or anyone leadership in your company, you are naive.

[u/synicalx1]

To be fair, almost no companies have a "head of mental health and wellbeing" let alone and entire team managed by such a person, so Google suddenly not having one doesn't exactly make them some kind of weird outlier.

[u/FreshPrinceOfRivia]

There was a similar guy at my previous company. He actually managed to retain some people for a few extra months at a particularly doomed project. But eventually people assigned to that project started to quit en masse anyway. Personally, I gave myself a pretty hefty raise by switching jobs.

[u/Expensive_Finger_973]

This is probably an insensitive and controversial take, but I can't understand how her position going away could possibly come as a surprise to her. Mental health and wellbeing is a line item meaning "we cover visits to mental health professionals" in a company comp package everywhere I have ever worked. Not a whole managerial position with direct reports.

On the surface these types of positions seem like the kind of thing you get into knowing it is on borrowed time. So you stay in it a little while to bank the fat salary while there is so much cash floating around no one is listening to the accountants and then get out, hopefully before those above you get wise.

I don't want to come off as a total ass and like I am blaming the victim, but I would be really interested to know what that job even entailed beyond managing a very specific part of the employee comp package and maybe some town hall type meetings to disseminate that information.

[u/lovetron99 → u/Expensive_Finger_973]

All I know is that I'm having a mental health and wellbeing issue, the last person I'm going to is a fellow employee, regardless of what her job title is. And I don't even feel like this is a hot take. Wouldn't surprise me if they found no one is utilizing this service.

[u/high_roller_dude]

this is a fluff position that was probably getting paid way too much money. just like those "chief of diversity and inclusion" type of bs jobs that add zero shareholder value.

these companies shouldnt have created these fluff positions to start with.

[u/ElCapitanAbrasivo → u/high_roller_dude]

that add zero shareholder value.

But they sure pump up those ECG scores!

[u/NevermoreTheSF → u/ElCapitanAbrasivo]

Are you talking about ESG or is ECG another new rubric I’ve missed out on ?

[u/ElCapitanAbrasivo → u/NevermoreTheSF]

Economy for the common good. Same general idea, considerable overlap but different model/framework and weighting.

ESG would have been used better here.

[u/MagorMaximus]

Rubber room position, cut the fat.

[u/TopofTheTits]

So lemme get this straight, Google made like $100 billion in 2022, and they choose to lay off 12,000 employees? It's clearly not a money issue, seeing as Google is crazy rich, so what's the reason?

[u/gimperion → u/TopofTheTits]

It's a shareholder issue.

[u/GameAndHike → u/TopofTheTits]

The stock also lost $500 billion in value last year

[u/djfreshswag → u/TopofTheTits]

Each division and individual project at any company should be evaluated for viability, growth and profit potential. Google isn’t just the search engine, workspace, YouTube, cloud, pixel. They have hundreds of products and projects they’re trying to develop. A lot of those are useless and stupid, having teams doing stuff with zero abject value. Hell, they even had/have ophthalmology clinical trials they were running with no idea what they were doing. Cutting dozens/hundreds of these projects that have nothing to do with their core businesses, have low profit potential, and have extremely low chance of ever coming to market just makes sense

[u/Pradeep_offthecliff]

also lost...

Sr. Director of Front Door Greeting

Director of Vegan Lunch Strategy

Scooter Parking Manager

Sr Director of Coffee Operations

Bathroom Attendant Team

Sr Director of Beer Blast Scheduling

[u/ListRepresentative32 → u/Pradeep_offthecliff]

All those were really believable until I read the "Bathroom attendant team"

[u/Pradeep_offthecliff → u/ListRepresentative32]

Forgot... C-suite Air Quality Manager

[u/TheAnonFeels → u/Pradeep_offthecliff]

I had GPT3.5 make some more for you

Sr Director of After Hours Events

Campus Recycling Manager

Office Plant Caretaker Team

Sr Director of Lobby Furniture Arrangement

Gym Membership Coordinator

Sr Director of Snack Options

Outdoor Grilling Team

Sr Director of Employee Appreciation Initiatives

Social Committee Coordinator

[u/ThreeTwoOneQueef]

It turns out DEI teams are a hindrance. Companies have to go back to hiring the best and brightest no matter what background they are from. I've seen first hand what happens when you don't, let's give up the BS.

[u/TheManWithNoNameZapp]

Because it’s performative that they had it to begin with. The whole position was created for good publicity idk why people can’t see through this corporate “good guys” garbage. They pay you money for your labor and can cut you at a moments notice. That’s the way it is. Join or don’t accordingly

[u/dogballs8]

Based on all the LinkedIn updates I've read, there was no rhyme or reason attached to whom was laid off. Usually bottom performers are targeted but if you read the posts, it was scatter-shot. Top performers on teams were let go, people with tenure, people without it, etc., etc. People managers of those impacted weren't even informed who on their own team was getting fired. Discoveries were made only when they tried to log in to their work email and were denied entry.

[u/Dinsdale_P]

pretty much all of Google's decisions have been varying degrees of batshit insane in the last decade, so I'm guessing the guy wasn't doing much good.

[u/bigbangbillyeast]

Longevity in a company means you either make money or save money. If you are an expense then you are expendable.

[u/scabbyshitballs]

This is a bullshit job title anyway. Like wtf does that guy do all day, really?