No, because they don't literally say that. What they do is put a certain color shirt on and reflective vests and stand at the gate with clipboards, waving cars to stop at the gate to sign in on the clipboard. But then BOOM. Surprise bitch! We're here to shit on you instead!
Dude, they used to bomb the university campus that I cooked at for 10 yrs. Every semester we would get notice that they were coming a week or so ahead. All staff were told they could stay home if that would upset them. Every god damn time I was short staffed and I don't even care if some just took it as a day of rest nicely placed in their lap, not my problem and I can rock a long ass shift on the line.
However I made a point of marching right up to them after my shift. They usually were being ignored by the passers by and so engaging me was just what they hoped for, until I unleashed. Listened first of course but just long enough to allow their own words to be the rope I used to hang them.
Starting with, where do you volunteer that assists orphans and foster children that were saved from abortion? What changes to the foster system are you fighting for? How is your outreach here affecting the orphaned and those in foster care? How many volunteer hours have you put in today, how many this year? What meaningful assistance has personally been given to orphans, orphanages or the foster children? How many at risk youth programs are you involved in?
Followed by generally asking passers by what they think of someone who is willing to hold anti abortion propaganda for an afternoon and has given X amount of time to foster children and orphans. Actively spending over an hour sharing their answers with those just going to and from class, students who happily chastised the activity of these activists. Often enough the head of their team would ask me to leave to which I happily pointed out that my freedom to express was as valid as theirs and ask if they wanted a security guard to come by, as I am campus staff and have them in my contacts. Then I'd open up to them that some 40 staff took the day off to avoid these activists, just another group of people like the foster children and orphans that they have shown disregard to by simply putting time and effort into this anti-abortion message instead of helping and caring for those who are hurting. That they seem very calloused to the fact that they bring a huge wake of events that they do not engage. Once I felt like I aired my grievances for the long shift I'd leave them with this. Foster kids are expected to have all there personal items fit into black garbage bags as they are moved through the system and no church group has bothered to do a thing about it, they are abandoned by the very people who preach that life is precious, people who have more things than can fit into black garbage bags. Fix that issue or admit your a hypocrite.
And with that I went home smiling. Moved on from chef life so I haven't had a chance in years. Maybe that'll be my goal this year, find some anti-abortion activists and give them my 2 cents.
Edit
Thanks for the kind words. Appreciated honestly but like I said I cooked for students on campus a *long time. Many fine cooks came from tough circumstances, needed a break coming in late and hung over, again. I shared this today because it still is a broken system today in 2021 as it was in 2004 when my eyes were first opened to the foster system realities. Always burned me seeing so many hold signs and no one could even get the foster system to afford these kids some luggage. Black garbage bags... Doesn't feel very good to admit that I've done very little though. I'm no hero. So I googled foster care reform and found this, seems a good place to start but open to suggestions. https://partnersforourchildren.org/resources/topics/foster-care
Where I went to high school there was a civics teacher who was religious and prolife. I remember when talking about Roe V. Wade he let some of his personal views come out while reading the decision and arguments. Him and his wife were foster parents, and adopted two children. He was pro-universal health care before it was ever talked about in the US. Thought it was a moral obligation Christians had along with feeding, clothing and housing the poor. He was anti-war, anti-nuclear proliferation, anti-death penalty and strongly anti-poverty.
When discussing the Supreme Court decision and the arguments the lawyers presented, he said that while he personally felt abortion was murder, it wasn't a classification that could be made legally. He had us go down slippery slope arguments of "could you abort a baby 2 weeks after it's born?" Or "Do you try to police the uterus and try to charge every woman who miscarriages with negligent homocide?" That was when I first learned how common miscarriages were. He did that to help explain why the court decided on the trimester model that they went with. He explained how women who were raped or were victims of incest would would often kill themselves instead of bring the baby to bear, and how virtually everyone in the US agreed that baring those women, or women whose lives were threatened biologically by pregnancy was seen universally in the US as the worse than abortion of two (and the reasons and polls behind it). He then explained how the 14th ammendment was interpreted that it wasn't O.K. to force the disclosure of the reasons behind abortion, so even if rape/incest/mother's life being in danger is a small percentage of total abortions, the government could not distinguish those abortions from the others.
He also showed us some statistics of women who died from and hospital wings filled with self-abortions or back-alley abortions.
He said his personal conclusion was making it illegal wouldn't change demand, only make it more dangerous and hurt more people. And that the best way to get rid of abortion was by making a world where having a child wasn't having a burden by making child care, health care and economic aid etc more readily available for everyone. While he didn't like contraceptives, he sill considered them the lesser of two evils when compared to abortion so figured they should be free and available to everyone.
Completely warped my view of what "pro-life" was. I assumed most pro-life people were like him. Working at their church food pantry on the weekends and all that bs. Nope. I have never met another pro-life person since then, only anti-choice people. I assume there are more pro-life people out there, maybe, but we only ever see or hear from the anti-choice people.
Oh jeez, I can imagine you going around like "I don't get the hate for pro choice people, they make a lot of sense" for a while before you ran into the vast majority of them
Yup. 100% I didn't get the hate for pro-life people before I met "pro-life" people. He did make a lot of sense. Prior to the deep dive on Roe V. Wade I was solidly in the pro-abortion camp. Just a collection of cells, why not use it as birth control etc. After, while he didn't sway me to a pro-life stance, I understood that it is a much more complicated moral, biological, social, legal, philosophical and political issue than I had thought. The idea of when personhood started, the court cases where the murders of pregnant women were charged as double homocides vs. the dystopian ramifications of starting personhood at conception.
Definitely put me in the pro-choice camp instead of the pro-abortion camp as I realized for many parents, miscarriage is losing a child and there is a ton of grey area where making the decision legally for every case and person is a mess.
Woah hey, I just want too see what you mean by pro-abortion vs pro choice? You've clearly thought a lot about this, but I thought those two terms were interchangable?
Not that anyone wants abortions, but being pro abortion is being pro choice?
Basically I had the mentality that abortion was NBD. Just cells.
Not that anyone wants abortions
I had thought that I did. I was a young dumb teen who did not realize how invasive and traumatic abortions were. I put it on the same level as using a condom, except after the fact and more expensive. Now I realize that that was a pretty stupid and simple view of abortion.
Ahhh okay I see... Yeah, my ex wife had to get an abortion when we were together, and we caught it suuuper early so it wasn't too rough on her physically. But emotionally, yeah it was a far bigger deal than either of us had let on when we were talking about it beforehand.
It was actually one of the many reasons that led to divorce, since it revealed some of the absolute sociopathic things about her :/
I never understood how the same people who preach about life being sacred before a baby is born then have no interest in that child’s wellbeing after they are born. Eg the same politicians who want to criminalize abortions also vote to lower funding to preschools are don’t want to raise the minimum wage. They actively want these same lives that they save (and their mothers) to be in destitute poverty.
Because they don't get the cognitive dissonance between two of their stances:
1) Abortion is murder, so all kids must be born
and
2) The government should do as little as possible to help people, even/especially those who have no ability to help themselves and rely on others to survive.
I've tried to argue with these types of people that reducing taxes and privatizing health care means people just won't be able to afford it (like what we already have in the US), and a better method is to take the taxes and health care costs we're already paying, and make it actually work for everyone via Universal Healthcare. They refused to accept that if you lowered taxes, there would be people who couldn't afford health care; they seriously believed the only reason someone wouldn't go to the doctor is that they didn't prioritize their health. It's pure insanity.
The motive behind it is quite simple to understand.
It is the currently most effective method of producing maximally exploitable (cheap) labor for the capitalists. In short, an increase in Reserve army of labour.
This also explains why these politicians don't care at all what happens to the children after birth.
Kycb is explaining the historical purpose of the political position. It's easy to listen to these assholes and see why they're against women's reproductive autonomy, but it's also important to find out why this position has been supported throughout history.
And yes those politicians want votes. They also work for factions of the ruling class that benefit from large amounts of value created by laborers that have poverty imposed upon them.
There are purposes behind why the world is as it is.
Those are puppets. They got brainwashed to do the dirty work of politicians. Or some could get paid to do so. What do they care? They really don’t know shit.
There's no way the kind of people who are vehemently protesting at clinics thinking about "the reserve army of labor".
I never claimed that either. Bluntly speaking the actual protesters here are simply the useful idiots.
And politicians just want their votes.
Yes and no, this alone cannot answer why of all things this wedge issue has been cultivated by the capitalist elite. The expansion of the army of labor represents a possible motivation here as u/blackpharaoh69 explains well.
Because it’s not about protecting life it’s about controlling women and punishing them for having sex. Why is it than many so called pro lifers are in favour of the death penalty? Pro life is just a Trojan horse for female submission and control
It's literally just a culture of hating women. It goes all the way from the bottom up in conservative/christian culture. The wife submits to the husband, the woman must have an intact hymen at marriage or she's 'unclean,' periods are 'gross,' etc. It's indoctrinated into them from birth (I know, I was one) and not many have the critical thinking skills and willpower to logic their way out of that kind of backwards thinking. So they get shunned by society and the only people that will engage with them feel the same way. It would be sad if it wasn't deadly.
I just commented upthread about this; wish I'd seen your remark first. It's patriarchy in all its ugliness, a descendant of the Puritanical approach to Christianity in the west, and related to other fundamentalist viewpoints in every major religion.
Indonesia, for example, just announced THIS WEEK that they will no longer submit female military recruits to a two-fingered "virginity test."
I read about that this morning and had a hard time actually believing it. Holy shit dude, it's 2021. I really thought we'd have eliminated these issues by now when I was a kid :(
I'm sad to say this but crap like this is common in more places than many of us, including me, want to acknowledge. Honor killings, anti abortion laws, virginity tests; all merely checkpoints along a continuum of abhorrent, antiquated beliefs and behaviors. It's a giant shit sandwich. Ugh.
As an aside, I've spent a great deal of time in Indonesia, from Medan to Bali. Some of the nicest people you'll find, but some of the strangest notions of life as well.
Why are you interfering in other peoples culture? You believe it’s wrong just like a Christian would argue in your own culture that somethings wrong. It’s not all about you. Same shit different toilet tbh.
I think it's rather easy: 1. they think abortion is murder. Stoping murderers is a really really important thing, it comes first. 2. in their eyes it's a certain demographic that gets abortions: poor, not married women. They don't want that people to have kids, not as long as their are not married. Of they make the life of poor/ single mothers hard they can punish them for their way of life, don't have to spend their money for other people and make the life of a poor/ single mother/ family so unappealing that that it scares people from doing things that might get them in that situation: (unprotected) sex before marriage.
Along the same lines I also never understood why the same people who are anti abortion also demand abstinence only education. If you are actually against abortions then why not promote safe sex education?
because sex before marriage is bad. if you only have sex in your marriage (and you don't divorce) and want as much children as it's god's will, what do you need safe sex education for? (additionally nothing protects you from STD and pregnancies as good as complete abstinence)
I think some forget and ignore it. Others know about it and consider those couples murderers. Who murders babys is not that important, that they murder them is the only thing relevant. so we are again at point 1: they want to prevent murders from happening. Everything they do makes sense, as long as you agree on abortion = murdering babys. which I don't agree, just to make that clear.
Yeah, especially the way diseases and viruses spread nowadays. Half the people I know have had crabs, gono or the clap and that’s bad. Like we live in medieval times. Kids do not wear protection even though they know they are suppose to. Reasons are because they are lazy to get one, or to put it on or to buy it or don’t like the feeling . You are not gonna force safe sex unless you control sex.
Or it might be that sex Ed starts too late or is too poor quality and the kids don’t know the consequences of their actions. You say you are all about facts and not feelings in your bio. What about the fact that places that invest in their sex education have less unplanned pregnancies than places that just say “don’t have sex.” https://www.nasn.org/advocacy/professional-practice-documents/position-statements/ps-sexual-health
Pretty clear, if what we actually want is less abortions, we need better sex Ed and access to the resources the kids need to safely have sex.
They want to punish poor people for being poor, they grow up in insulated wealthy communities who are deathly afraid of losing the tiniest amount of privilege and see poor people as a threat when they ask for things like increased minimum wage and expanded welfare because they believe it will come at the expense of their tax haven loopholes and free reign to take as they wish.
There's also the double bonus of punishing women for having sex when they should be married and obeying her good Christian husband.
Usually the well off families raise their kids to not screw around so stupidly to have a kid. “They believe” is just a way for you saying I have no idea what they mean that’s just my opinion.
What movies do you watch? Usually the only thing a rich kid will do is buy plan b right after. Exceptions don’t make the rules, of course there might be some who literally get abortions paid by their parents or maybe the parents raise the kid themselves. But like I said the higher social groups usually wanna keep their kids away from sex as long as possible.
You have only a small percentage of society who are wealthy so obviously you'll have higher chances of poorer kids getting pregnant but wealthy doesn't change hormones and teenagers are gonna fuck. Wealthier kids have better access to abortions because they likely don't live in some bumfuck town that manipulated state law to effectively make them impossible. Rich kids again live in areas with much better schooling and won't be force-fed garbage abstinence trash.
Money doesn't make you a better person and it certainly doesn't magically make you a good parent.
the same politicians who want to criminalize abortions also vote to lower funding to preschools
and they vehemently support and push the death penalty, going so far to have their poisons hand-made because the pharmaceutical companies that make the real thing refuse to sell to GOP death camps.
Dude holy shit, vuvuzelas are the most annoying things in the world (besides these anti-abortion activists and antivaxxers). You're a genius and I implore everyone to buy a vuvuzela!
My best friend was a foster care kid, because his mom couldn't get an abortion, and was forced to try her best to raise a child she was mentally, physically, and financially too unwell to care for.
He went from house to house, getting continually traumatized by abusive foster homes mixed with getting sent back with his abusive family. He was sexually assaulted, starved and more in that system.
He ended his own life last year, just a few days after turning 19 and getting kicked out of his most recent foster home.
The adoption system is fucked, it cost one of the most amazing people I've ever met his life, and forcing a human being to have a child they cannot care for is immoral. There is no good that comes from it, people get abortions for a reason.
I remember when the religious weirdos would accost me in college. My favorite moment was the look on some poor girl's face when I said 'well who's to say your holy book is right and the others are wrong?' She was just blown away. Clearly had never considered that Muslims also think their holy book is true scripture. It cracks me up you can be a supposed 'child of god' and understand so few of his children.
I really don't like the idea of abortion, but like all these silly "My body my choice" antivax people I think freedom sides with abortion! Don't like it, but I get it!
The sad issue is, your actually playing into the hands of the church. At some level they recognize that no amount of protesting will end abortions. But, if they send there members out, and they are ignored, yelled at, fought with, or any other typical behavior, all day, every day, it'll but up some anger in the church member. Then, they come into the safe loving arms of their church community. They get to talc about how man everyone was. Commiserate over the lost babies. And their church solidifies their hold on the individual.
You say that but I actually don't think those persons will ever change. They'll flee to parents and church groups always and they will get told it's just bad old sinners. Fuck them. I couldn't care less about them but when they try to impose that view in public I'm not happy. When that public protest is directly impacting my kitchen and my staff I am pissed. Impact my customers/client and I will show the rage of a chef who worked 1,000 tickets by noon without hesitation. Not because the protestors needed to hear it but because the foster home my prep cook went through left scars I noticed, because my front of house manager has done years of therapy to work through her past. Because countless customers mentioned the protest signs and it's affect on them. Happily I'll be seen by my peers, subordinates and clientele chastising the idiocy that came to visit. To stand with my kitchen against this mental assault is a duty I took with pride. If that man-god they love was actually something they took seriously perhaps they would be more loving and helpful to the prostitutes and unhoused population, until then they're hypocrites without merit. Fuck them and the doom they preach.
Oh believe m me, they deserve all the grief. They deserve people handling out anti-cult pamphlets and harassing their church members every Sunday. They deserve to be identified at their places of business and called out as the hateful beings they are. They deserve to be treated the way they think they are with their holy warrior victim complex. It won't ever change their minds though.
Dude, they used to bomb the university campus that I cooked at for 10 yrs. Every semester we would get notice that they were coming a week or so ahead.
Man, you had that whole wall of text and never once talked about the repeated bombings you dropped in the first sentence. Talk about burying the lead.
Well there was a bus loop with a plaza between two of the main buildings and that's where they were in a group of 20-30, half holding signs and half with pamphlets. So if I didn't start at 6 and was a student I'd either arrive on bus to fetus signs or be leaving one of those buildings and stumble into some stupid smiling "pamphlet hands" waving paper by your fingers and quickly chattering. So no literal bombs, as you pointed out but a rather bothersome jolt of an experience or way to express an opinion.
Read the edit. Not afraid to admit my involvement was low. Did find a resource I linked in the edit and am a volunteer at the soup kitchen since its fun to play with big equipment for me. So gonna try and do more in that avenue for certain. There was a sort of knowing though, after all the years. More than a few call outs in all departments was inevitable and my salty day had a fair bit of steam that felt good to let out. In my eyes they volunteered to do a whole show and in the wake of that I was effected and thus the self justification.
have you shared or published your list of questions somewhere? I bet that would be a pretty valuable resource for people fielding these protestors all over.
Do you know how many foster kids I trained and gave a chance knowing they were struggling with addictions and trying to afford rent? Late for work hung over, again... Do you even know the rage of ten hour day flipping breakfast to lunch and then setting dinner? Short handed?
This is such a bizzarre, desperate argument comng from someone who knows she's on the side of abject evil. It doesn't get much more evil than killing children. No one's asking you to raise them, no one's asking you to be a parent, no one's asking you to stay with them, people are just asking you to not kill them. Really, the absolute bare minimum for being a decent human being. And you take mortal offense at that. What does that say about you?
I mean, read your post over again. You are quite literally arguing for eugenics. "It's okay to kill babies because foster life can be hard." "It's okay to kill babies because they might grow up to be criminals!" "It's okay to kill babies because they might grow up to be poor!" What the fuck, man? Talk about mask off.
It's more about putting money where the mouth is. If they care so much as to stand with signs at a campus that has to warn staff that graphic images will be along their travel to work then maybe they don't see how actions have consequences. As I vehemently believe that advocating a cause deserves being ready for confrontation it was most often that these sign holders expressed they didn't have any involvement in any other programs for children or youth outreach if it wasn't church related.
But you realize that argument doesn't work at all, right? You're probably opposed to rape, armed robbery, kidnapping, and arson. Now imagine a rapist, armed robber, kidnapper, or arsonist smugly telling you that you can't morally oppose those things because you haven't personally devoted your life to being a counselor, cop, investigator, or firefighter. That's nonsense. That person knows what they're doing is wrong but rather than self-reflect and stop doing it they're just trying to shift the blame onto you for not personally stopping them.
Also, if pictures of abortions make you uncomfortable then maybe you're not as okay with it as you pretend to be. We all like to think if we'd been around during slavery or the Holocaust or some other such normalized atrocity we'd have had the courage to fight it, even if it were legal and socially-accepted and condoned by all sorts of respected, intelligent, and otherwise well-seeming doctors and scientists and academics. Good news: here's your chance.
Gotta disagree. If a woman says she cannot provide adequately and makes their choice from there I feel no need to judge at all. No moral high road either. I have no desire at all to support or object any decisions because it's not me. My body my choice.
Yeah, I don't really believe that, sorry. I don't believe you have no opinion on child murder. If a woman says she cannot provide adequately that is what adoption is for. We don't kill people just because we think there's a chance they might not have a good life. That's eugenics, which I've already mentioned to you and you've already pretended to ignore.
Based on our conversation I don't believe you're a bad person, and I don't believe you're as supportive of abortion as you pretend to be. In the short span of our discussion alone you've gone from passionately defending it to dispassionately taking a neutral position. That's pretty telling.
Please remember what I said about normalized atrocity and how good people fall for it. Evil is often banal and creeps up on us, whether through culture, law, religion, ideology, our friends, or the people we respect. I hope you can see this for what it is one day.
You don’t know what you’re talking about. Your ideology leads to more death and more suffering. Your ideology turns women from relatively equal citizens to gestational slaves. Suggesting that women give up their born children to likely suffer in the foster care system after nine months of gestation is callousness bordering on psychopathy. These are often women who already have several children.
If you want to raise money to support families who can’t financially care for an accidental child, be my guest. If you want to change laws so that paid parental leave is the norm and subsidized childcare is accessible, that’s great too.
You can also do like I do, and spread information on safe sex and support non profits that fight homelessness, or support women’s shelters.
What you can’t do is demand that every woman gestate every accidental pregnancy to term. We are not all living in a theocracy; your beliefs do not determine my beliefs or my life.
The u/wereno gave me this response.
"Where I went to high school there was a civics teacher who was religious and prolife. I remember when talking about Roe V. Wade he let some of his personal views come out while reading the decision and arguments. Him and his wife were foster parents, and adopted two children. He was pro-universal health care before it was ever talked about in the US. Thought it was a moral obligation Christians had along with feeding, clothing and housing the poor. He was anti-war, anti-nuclear proliferation, anti-death penalty and strongly anti-poverty.
When discussing the Supreme Court decision and the arguments the lawyers presented, he said that while he personally felt abortion was murder, it wasn't a classification that could be made legally. He had us go down slippery slope arguments of "could you abort a baby 2 weeks after it's born?" Or "Do you try to police the uterus and try to charge every woman who miscarriages with negligent homocide?" That was when I first learned how common miscarriages were. He did that to help explain why the court decided on the trimester model that they went with. He explained how women who were raped or were victims of incest would would often kill themselves instead of bring the baby to bear, and how virtually everyone in the US agreed that baring those women, or women whose lives were threatened biologically by pregnancy was seen universally in the US as the worse than abortion of two (and the reasons and polls behind it). He then explained how the 14th ammendment was interpreted that it wasn't O.K. to force the disclosure of the reasons behind abortion, so even if rape/incest/mother's life being in danger is a small percentage of total abortions, the government could not distinguish those abortions from the others.
He also showed us some statistics of women who died from and hospital wings filled with self-abortions or back-alley abortions.
He said his personal conclusion was making it illegal wouldn't change demand, only make it more dangerous and hurt more people. And that the best way to get rid of abortion was by making a world where having a child wasn't having a burden by making child care, health care and economic aid etc more readily available for everyone. While he didn't like contraceptives, he sill considered them the lesser of two evils when compared to abortion so figured they should be free and available to everyone.
Completely warped my view of what "pro-life" was. I assumed most pro-life people were like him. Working at their church food pantry on the weekends and all that bs. Nope. I have never met another pro-life person since then, only anti-choice people. I assume there are more pro-life people out there, maybe, but we only ever see or hear from the anti-choice people."
I hope you take the time to read and then look into the data. Access to safe abortions saves lives. Don't be so ready to ingest the religious propaganda and absolutely fuck off trying to "advise" or "enlighten" anyone with this notion that it is akin to holocaust levels of atrocity. You've only furthered my belief that those against it are the vile and inhumane without education and without understanding. Stop being anti-choice and try to support life.
Bro…noone read your whole bullshit excuse as to why you think it’s okay to murder babies…shut the fuck up and own up to the baby you create…you fucking pussy
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u/RenegonParagade 15d ago
Would that count as impersonating a medical professional? I think it should, but I have no clue if it would actually count or not