This is true. And in the days when the Yellow Pages were how folks found out about local businesses, they would pay to be listed under “Abortion services.” These days they have to classify themselves as “pregnancy crisis centers” or something similar- which is better but not by much.
Their main thing is offering abortion (but never actually calling it that) at an insanely cheap price, then stringing the women along until it’s legally too late or they can convince her her body is not her own.
Yeah I read a girls story where the crisis center said they would help her and then one it was passed the mark where she could get an abortion in her state they abandoned her completely, and she was pregnant with twins. She said it ruined her life.
This is all about creating desperate people to exploit. American evangelical christianity has become heretical. If they were real Christian's theyd know Jesus is the kind of guy who would spend all day braiding a whip so he could beat the shit out of Christian's like these.
Take a look at Poland, they've gone the other way.
We have abortion clinics in the Czech Republic now that only employ Polish speakers and serve only Polish women who have crossed the border to get help
I've often thought maybe these unwanted babies are more likely to end up as cannon fodder for the military or slave labour within the prison system.
I'm a very pragmatic person, every child born is another drain on the world's limited resources, another consumer and contributor to pollution - as we all are. Why bring an unwanted person into the world? Life is tough enough when you're loved and wanted by your parents, let alone when you're not.
Anyway, abortion is supported in the Bible if you look at the "trial of the bitter water" which was supposed to make a woman miscarry if she was pregnant as a result of adultery- Numbers 5:11-31.
You know why it’s in the Bible that way? Because like today nobody is going to raise and take care of a child that’s not their own. Pretty smart in my book.
IIRC, one of the reasons they call it a 'crisis pregnancy center' is because in the days before abortions were legal, every ER had a dedicated ICU for catastrophic pregnancy complications resulting from attempted at-home abortions. These were for injuries from women who had tried to perform their own abortions with coat hangers, pills, and chemicals. People who had tried to douche with bleach or other strong solvents or had poisoned themselves with things in order to prevent their pregnancies.
People these days don't remember those horrors because Roe v. Wade was roughly 50 years ago; thankfully we haven't needed those sorts of dedicated ICUs anymore.
Yep, coworker was promised all this help post birth and they gave her a package of diapers and that was it, no more help after that. Horrible people that do that to pregnant women.
Your missing the entire point of responsibility and accountability. I’m not against abortions but I understand why people are upset about it. Yeah it’s not the babies fault you decided to have sex and it is a bad choice to be very sexual and not have a stable income. My mom had my sister at 16 and then me at 23. My sister was unplanned but she made it through and we all live good.
So your saying that when a young person is irresponsible and lacks accounting (as a young person once, we tend to be that way), what will really make them responsible and accountable is forcing them to raise a child they never intended to have with no income and little support?
Okay so if a kid murders someone do we force them to serve full time or the death penalty? Or do we teach them better and send them back where they started.
We take a proactive steps to enable them for success in the first place, and were they and we as a society fail, we correct for future generations.
If they murdered for food, why did we let them starve to the point they killed someone? Who is more evil, the one who killed for food, or the one who did not share his food to avoid a killing?
Same thing can be applied to all cases. Understand, and then you have the answer. Then you can take action.
I agree with everything until you said share his food to avoid killing. Why is rape even a thing today? Why was he given no sex? That’s how I’m seeing that.
While I appreciate your attempt to twist my words, sex is not an essential need for individual human beings.
A person can go years without sex without adverse effects. I'm sure you are a prime candidate to present that evidence first hand, so I'll defer to your celibate expertise.
I never tried to personally insult you but it works I guess. Technically food from someone else is not essential, get it yourself like all the other living creatures on earth. There is plenty of food on earth that only requires energy to get. Why is it every time someone is off the tracks it goes straight to what can someone else give me? I’m assuming you are one of the atheist. Isn’t that what Darwin argued against? I guess if I go hungry one day I’ll commit murder because nobody gave me their food.
Insinuating I approve of rape under the premise of my arguement with a non-sequitar fallacy was insulting.
And food requires knowledge to grow, or hunt, prepare for storage, and prepare to eat, in a manner that will not create harm. Again, this goes back to why not share the food, and then grow a community by educating them and teaching them, and now you can grow more crops, improving society.
Darwin argued survival of the fittest. Individually, that means we will kill to provide for out own needs, if we have too. Or to build a stronger capability to survive, to allow for specialists, we have a society that works together.
It's the greatest tragedy that humans are so individuallly selfish, and the greatest irony that we rely on others to survive (for food, medicine, tech).
Like that even reminds me of arguments about the native Americans and the colonist. So you are saying the native Americans should have given them everything they had to avoid killing? I’m sure they needed the food in a foreign place stockpiling for winter and more colonist to come fed.
Are you aware of American Thanksgiving? Thats literally what it was, giving food to the colonists so the colonist would not starve to death. The native americans had a teaching society.
Later, when colonists started taking advantage, the the native americans became warlike, but lacked the technology and large groups for fighting.
Colonists had a large society behind them to build advance weapons (for the time), and drill tactics for war. Colonists had horses and native americans did not. Colonists contiuned to evolve thier weapons and tactics.
What do you mean for the time? But yes they gave food in exchange of European knowledge knowing they were more advanced. You said it yourself that humans are naturally selfish and what’s not a tribe of native Americans if not it’s own form of government like we had. We looked after our own like the natives did as well. We introduced horses that greatly benefited the nomadic tribes to the West and in general all of the tribes.
No, I saod humans are selfish, and also require others to survive. Native americans had small governments, and then councils from alliances, however they were flexible.
We gave native americans weapons so they could clear out thier rivals, doing colonists work for them. And colonists introduced horses which benefited native americans, but not on purpose. Colonists killed off all the wild mustangs to restrict native american movement, and then further locked them down on reservations.
The people who set these kinds of scams up should be legally liable for sending monetary support into raising the children they've helped bring into this world. That'll get them shut down extremely quick.
More likely they'll just declare bankruptcy and reorganized under a new business name. That's what Randall Terry (forced birth terrorist) did when Planned Parenthood won a huge a civil case against him, he declared bankruptcy so PP couldn't collect.
Actually, I think that everyone who protests outside an abortion clinic should be made to pay an extra tax to support the financial upkeep of children from parents who can't afford to feed them. They should be GLAD to do so.
They don't give a fuck about the baby after it's born though. If they actually cared about babies, they would want to help the babies!
I'm all for lowering abortion rates by providing free child care and food. If you actually want to lower abortion rates, reducing social stigma about being single mum, and helping them financially and with childcare will do far more than their current tactics. They don't want to prevent abortion, they want to punish women.
They’re more concerned with it being alive than fed I suppose. It’s unfortunate, but our civilization isn’t constructed in a way that helps people in need.
The thing is, they don’t actually care about babies or even about lowering rates of abortion. There are so many reasonable, legal, easy ways to reduce abortion rates and pro life advocates don’t care to act on those ways; they simply want to cling to the moral superiority they believe their ideological position grants them.
I’ve talked to multiple pro life people about how my body is physically incapable of carrying a healthy fetus to term, and how much effort I’ve put into avoiding an accidental pregnancy. However if I were to be impregnated against my will, those people would want me to attempt to carry a malnourished, damaged fetus to term (which would more likely end in a miscarriage) to satisfy the rigid rules of their ideology, even though the most likely outcome from that is two deaths and the definite outcome is one death. They actually 100% don’t care that I and any fetus inside me would die, they still wouldn’t give me access to abortion unless maybe I was literally in the hospital dying right in front of a doctor.
THEY JUST DONT ACTUALLY GIVE A SHIT ABOUT PEOPLE, “UNBORN” OR ALREADY BORN. WE COULD ALL DIE IN CHILDBIRTH AND ALL OUR OUR FETUSES COULD BE UNVIABLE AND ALL THEY CARE ABOUT IS THE SENSE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS THEY CAN GAIN BY CLAIMING THEY ARE ON THE SIDE AGAINST “KILLING BABIES.”
I’m not saying some of them aren’t nuts, I’m just saying morality is subjective and life has no intrinsic value, so from their perspective they have an obvious moral high ground.
They aren’t “trying to save children,” even if that’s what they claim and/or believe they are doing.
They think they have the moral high ground bc they genuinely believe that women were put on this earth by god to serve as breeders for men. There is no way to argue with someone who believes you are biologically inferior and born to be a gestational slave. We need to make sure their religious insanity is never the source of legislative decision making. I don’t care what they think is murder, I care that they are infringing on my and every woman’s human rights. Their ideology is rooted firmly in the oppression of women. All that matters is making sure they can’t oppress. And being honest about what the root of their ideology truly holds is vital to the conversation.
There is no straw man. I’ve talked to many pro lifers. Without fail they show their misogyny if you ask them enough questions. There is no way to be pro life without also being a misogynistic; the ideology of “pro life” itself is rooted in misogyny. The idea that woman should ever be obligated to sacrifice their body autonomy is impossible to separate from the misogyny inherent to that belief.
The idea that the life of an unborn child is worth more than that of someone older? They seem to me to be defining life more broadly than us and devaluing life as it becomes older, but are you saying that those are never the reasons?
As I said, there are many ways to support mothers and their children (born and yet to be born) that don’t involve stripping women of their very basic human rights. Pro lifers actively fight against these. It’s a fucking political movement; not a moral one. The claims of morality are a red herring to cover the real issue, which for pro lifers is women having sex and rejecting motherhood.
They view both of them as having rights and they believe that the child’s right to life outweighs the mother’s rights to stuff. Besides, not everyone on that side is the same. Not to mention the idea of “pro-life”/“pro-choice” is ridiculous since the vast majority of us think that abortions should be allowed before a certain point in the pregnancy, but not past it. What most people disagree on is when that point is.
This shouldn’t even be a political issue in the first place and those who politicize stuff like this are the scum of the Earth.
You’re right that they believe they have moral high ground but the reality doesn’t fit that because they don’t do anything to help these babies after they’re born. Because of that, they’re all nuts with delusions of having moral high ground.
They don’t believe they have the moral high ground, they believe they have a moral obligation. And besides, the USA (and presumably other countries) have extremely individualistic cultures, so the idea of “giving someone something” isn’t really approved of. Look at it this way; our welfare system’s so tight that it’s almost unusable, but our tax system’s full of holes. It’s fine to not give, but not to take.
A moral obligation to force people to birth a child they don’t want, yet have no interest in helping once they’re born? What kind of fucked up morals are those?
Our welfare and tax system work like they’re designed to work. Keep the poors poor and keep the rich even more rich than they were before without having to work for it. Those same Christians support this system. Jesus (that dude they worship) would not approve.
That part has nothing to do with Christianity; that’s just good old fashioned American values of individualism and responsibility. (You know; dysfunctional bullshit)
I’m not saying they’re right; I’m just saying that their actions are not crazy given their values.
They don’t get any moral passes from me. Their values are crazy and so are their actions. I’m all for religious freedom but these people are harmful to society.
It is, and that’s why I started a petition to shut down Yelp.
The problem I have is everyone’s acting like they’re nut jobs being crazy for no good reason. What they are is people with different opinions acting in a way that’s highly moral based upon their beliefs.
So many people have been explaining to you that while pro life ppl THINK they are behaving morally, their morals are inconsistent, incoherent, and they aren’t actually acting in ways that align with the morals they claim they are standing for. If they actually stood by those morals, all of their activism would be entirely different from the terrorism and ethics violation they’ve been doing.
Actually my morals, particularly regarding abortion, are extremely consistent. Generally, laws to secure human rights must be both consistent and coherent.
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u/Shaysdays 15d ago
This is true. And in the days when the Yellow Pages were how folks found out about local businesses, they would pay to be listed under “Abortion services.” These days they have to classify themselves as “pregnancy crisis centers” or something similar- which is better but not by much.
Their main thing is offering abortion (but never actually calling it that) at an insanely cheap price, then stringing the women along until it’s legally too late or they can convince her her body is not her own.