4

COMMENT 1d ago

You dont need to open a new post for this, just ask in the comments of the other one.

-2

COMMENT 4d ago

I mean just look at the 2 top post currently. The one makes fun about the prorgression curve while the other one makes fun of hardmode, while the point of hardmode is literally to fix the progression curve.

2

COMMENT 6d ago

While I agree with you, I dont think the Delve example is sound.
You could argue that it was kinda framed to not be as enjoyable as it could be by removing a lot of content that could exist a long side with an endless delve mechanic.

1

COMMENT 6d ago

No it is not. The context is builds and how interactions change to maybe not enable a certain build anymore. Its not about content.

9

COMMENT 6d ago

Its also worth noting that Preach walked part of the statement back in the context of poe. Its also not surprsing this clip gets posted, over the one where he says GGG shouldnt design the game around the people who arrived late to the party and dont play it for the originally intended player expirience.

6

COMMENT 6d ago

You get downvoted because you dont make any sense.

8

COMMENT 6d ago

Because the price doesnt matter in the context of the topic. Also nothing is free, people have invested time and are emotionally invested.

17

COMMENT 6d ago

Listing items in exalts also helps with the fluctuating value of chaos orbs, there isnt rly a need to be confrontational about this.

2

COMMENT 7d ago

LA isnt a competitor. Its a completly different genre and has almost nothing in common with PoE but the isometric perspective.

61

COMMENT 7d ago

MS has additionally AoE tag, but that's it

The difference is that AoE skills overlap and can hit multiple times.

1

COMMENT 8d ago

You are missing the point here. The state of their own games doesnt matter in context of this talk, its about the information that gets conveyed and the things he talk about are valuable without a specific context.
The audience has most likely no background in ARPGs and going indepth about the actual systems would be completly lost on them and would most likely not be valuable information, because there are no one size fits all solutions in game design, so their takeway will be an abstract form anyway.
Again the issues you find in those games are issues for you. Others might actually like those features for what they are. I am not a fan of the casualization of their titles either, but thats what they ended up focusing on. This doesnt make them bad games, they just arent made for us anymore.

2

COMMENT 8d ago

You have the luxuary of watching this talk with the 20/20 vision of hindsight and you can take away that the way blizzard chose to solve those problems was maybe not so good as they expected.
You can still get value out of this talk from the problems they found and come to your own conclusions on how to fix those.
All you do is arguing "blizzard bad" without actually refering to the content of this video.
Yes there are people without any integrity who just want to design the perfect addiction loop or telling us how bad it is to disrespect the autonomy of NPCs or just use the talks as straight up advertisement.
And if you consider all those shady talks, this one is actually one of the better ones.

Even if you disagree or think games are bad, which is completly subjective especially with the games you mentioned, doesnt mean you should dismiss their perspecives or opinions, just because you didnt like the games they made, because only a fool assumes the other person has nothing of value to share.
They for sure did something right, with those games if they manage to maintain a playerbase for this long and have people comming back every season, even if only for a short amount of time.

1

COMMENT 8d ago

Make everything feel overpowered unfortunatly doesnt work when you are meant to have progression and aspirational content or any longterm playability.
It works in the context of singeplayer/coop or or pvp games without any progression like StarCraft, Overwatch, Tekken or Bayonetta.
You are supposed to hit a wall in progression based ARPGs or else the progression is meaningless.
The problem in current PoE is how those walls are paced and how easy it is for some builds to completly ignore those walls while others need extra effort.
It used to be the norm to have to grind out levels during the campaign at certain points like dry lake or chamber of sins.
You dont solve anything by making every build ignore progression gates, you make the issue even worse by backloading meaningfull progression, which can be seen by how people talk about the campaign part of the game.

2

COMMENT 9d ago

But we already have cases like this, for example the vast amount of jewels that get corrupted because you are looking for cb immunity or RMR, turning out as insane 4 prop jewels or going for corruptions on mid tier items that can turn out as 6 t1 items worth more than what you put it.
The problem we arrive at is how 8 mods raise the power ceiling, making it the new big thing to achieve for the .1%
Corrupted rerolls are already weighted towards better outcomes.
Making the proper way to achieve the new best in slot to corrupt random unrolled double influenced items also complete changes the value of Vaal Orbs making it maybe unreasonable expensive to 6link a corrupted item or use them on maps.
We could move it to only the temple allowing this type of corruption but it would just move the elephant to a different room.

2

COMMENT 9d ago

You could be charitable and give it the mana regen aswell for Chainbreaker interaction, still leaves crit chance as a weak mod that conflicts with the implicit.

21

COMMENT 9d ago

Jewel mods are always tier one and the mod combination on this jewel doesnt stand out.

6

COMMENT 9d ago

With a few exceptions, like Nintendos botw presentation or Will Wrights talks, a lot of the design focused panels are about learning from mistakes and this one like many others does a good job at it.
Thinking of Spore even Will has failures to look back at despite his genius.

2

COMMENT 9d ago

I can tell you whats the problem with trade, its the same corner they got themselves into with divcards, taking money for a service they cant take back.
Selling an insane amount of premium stash tabs and allowing unlimited listings.
If we look at MMOs, which face very similar challanges, the solution usually is to limit the amount of sales a person can list, forcing them to actually sell their items if they want to sell more.

A proper solution would be to give every player exactly one sales tab.

If you limit how much a player can actually list, you could even enable asynchronous trade.
For example having a trade stall in your hideout, customers could access, even while you are in your map.
You could still make it so players need to invite others to buy from them and the selling party would have to actually maintain/restocking their store.

13

COMMENT 9d ago

The problem here is, that the complete reroll of an item shouldnt be the desirable outcome. Getting good explicit mods on a corrupted item is more of a consolation prize.
If a Vaal Orb could give you 8 mod rares, the correct usage a lot of the time could be to use them the same way you would use Alchs and just use them on random items from the ground.

6

COMMENT 12d ago

There is nothing to figure out. The one is technical performance the other is balance/design.
If you cant see the difference then i have bad news for you.

7

COMMENT 12d ago

Even if this was the case, how is this relevant to the topic?

7

COMMENT 12d ago

Did someone at GGG physicly hurt you or why are you posting this bad faith verbal mess?

-2

COMMENT 14d ago

Maybe for you, but not for others. Thats the slippery slope Chris keeps talking about.

1

COMMENT 16d ago

Even if those ideas were good, good luck removing those bandaids again. The community would be furious because the real implementation would most likely feel weaker or more tedious.

17

COMMENT 16d ago

I am pretty sure you are missquoting him here.

When he went on to explains he started his sentence with "You..." as he was thinking about how to explain it and then continued "like in diablo,[...]", he then gave a rough breakdown of treasure classes, which were correct mechanicly, but not by the numbers.
Which is still a valid answer and you could take it as a start, build it up and branch away from it.
Having a clip of that line would give it a lot more weight.

I still agree with the content of your post.