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So the meme is in agreement that defacing Stonehenge as a protest was pointless?
There are ways to get attention for a cause without defacing one of the seven wonders of the world. Next time spray that cornstarch in BP’s corporate parking lot.
Like the 3 private jets that were vandalized with orange paint in London. That’s the kind of thing I can support, it makes headlines, it grounds the planes reducing emissions, and it specifically targets those who are causing the most harm.
It hasn’t made headlines though. Juststopoil goes after oil terminals, car manufacturers etc pretty often but it’s never reported on. The only protest that gets attention is souping painting or spraying cornflour on rocks.
Hmm. I wonder why the media is more heavily reporting one type of vandalism over another?
Fwiw I saw news articles about the planes being vandalized before I saw this one about Stonehenge, so the headlines do exist. Everyone’s news feeds are different though.
The headlines exist, but Stonehenge is what is generating the lasting discussion and will be the instance that most people in the world know about.
Yup, in another thread about the planes there’s nothing but assholes griping about stonehenge.
Almost like defacing art is actually the more effective type of protest.
Like the 3 private jets that were vandalized with orange paint in London.
I didn’t hear about that.
I am hearing about this.
The organization itself posting it on their site doesn’t mean people are hearing about it. Pretty sure the intent is to get the message to people who don’t visit their site regularly.
There are news articles about this recent juststopoil protest from almost all of the major news outlets. Here’s one from the associated press.
People are hearing about it.
They won we’re talking about it.
Because of what happened at Stonehenge.
The fact that you missed the Stonehenge under water worries me.
I saw it. That implies that spraying cornstarch won’t change anything. Think about it.
THEN WHAT FUCKING WILL CHANGE ANYTHING
Because this is the only thing that gets people like you to even talk about this.
edit: I want to be clear that I don’t care if it’s rude or uncivil to talk to people about this like this, I will do it again and again and again and I support efforts to be annoying about it, because at this point it’s all we have left to maybe, potentially, get enough people angry enough that someone, somewhere does something. Anything
You’re all making your frowny faces and saying “This is counter-productive” and you’re simply not getting it.
If through some magical means we were to learn that nuking Manhattan would somehow lower global temperatures, then we would need to do that, just up and vaporize 1.6 million people. It would STILL be the ethically superior action to take if it magically worked. Because in the next century billions of people may die.
If we learned that filling the Grand Canyon with concrete would get companies to stop producing carbon waste and get people to accept inconveniences like electric cars and paper straws without whinging like a wounded toddler, then yes, line up those cement mixers.
When it comes to the trolly problem, you’re all not even looking at the right tracks if you’re so upset about incivility or annoyances when it comes to climate activism. If anyone is left to do it, one day they will erect statues of these kids throwing soup at paintings and coloring rocks.
This is such a clarifying post.
It’s not about being useful, it’s about feeling useful. It’s about the impotent frustration of feeling you’re not having an impact being channeled through a media stunt whether or not it in fact changes anything, or even if it makes things worse.
That is what’s going on here, I think. Strategic thinking about this is slow and involves a long road and political concessions and compromises and getting involved hands-on with very out-of-sight things for a long time. This takes a second and it makes it to the news, so it feels like something got done, even if it wasn’t the case.
And that’s 21st century activism in a nutshell, basically.
I know this is nitpicking but… I’d say the biggest issue with electric car now is the pricing. What do you think poor people should do?
We should ride bicycles and public transit, and the government should be investing in rail and walkability for us
Exactly what I thought, we need less cars.
You need to learn to become compelling if you want to be heard. Annoying people will get you ignored, and likely discredited.
Also, you know nothing about me.
Not clicking, not looking, this isn’t even about you, this is bigger than you. Every individual needs to get a lot better about getting their head out of their own ass.
You wrote “people like you” referring to me. Consider this lesson one in becoming compelling: know your audience.
Yeah, people like you, who have all the power to say something supportive of those doing anything, no matter how feeble, and instead employ people’s worse emotions against something you find annoying. I stand by it. I don’t care who you are or what your ideals are, you made a choice here to push back on people who are trying to save our lives. If you don’t like the methodology, fine. Who cares. All you do by ranting about it is give ammunition to those who would still deny there is even a problem, as we all slowly boil to death.
At least the rocks will be clean, right?
This comment is beautiful. It manages to admonish another for a concept it in of itself can not grasp.
I dunno, I’m hearing the person quite well. Probably because tone policing ain’t my thing.
Oh your a spineless defeatists! Anyways…
And you’re someone with poor spelling and reading comprehension.
It’s you’re, not your.
Its a poor indication of your position when you mock the delivery instead of the message.
It’s you’re, not your.
Oh thank God, OPs message was completely indecipherable until you translated it for us! /s
That’s the implication of the meme.
I think there are better ways to bring attention to the concerns of climate change than defacing Stonehenge.
The implication of the meme is that the people talking about how stupid the protests are are actually blind to the very real climate change happening. They might know about it, but they don’t really comprehend that defacing the Stonehenge is nothing compared to it being completely underwater, alongside the whole area.
Whether the comic is right or wrong is another thing, and the other guy arguing in bad faith is a cunt, but I strongly believe that’s what the comic is meant to portray.
Yeah I’m sure you were against the BLM protests as well. Begone liberal 👋
It’s really cool how you decide the opinions and stance of others based on your own opinions. I’m sure you’re always right too.
I protested with BLM in Yonkers in June of 2020, but I’m sure you’re usually 100% correct otherwise.
I think the wider point is that people will remain ignorant, even when they’ve irrefutably been proven wrong.
So the meme is in agreement that defacing Stonehenge as a protest was pointless?
It was as pointless as everything else, that’s why they did it, it’s screaming into the void to get attention.
There are ways to get attention for a cause without defacing one of the seven wonders of the world
Are there though? I’m old enough to remember this has gone on for decades without anyone doing anything of significance and now we’re at the actual edge of global catastrophe and STILL people are like “hmn, those kids should be recycling.” Bruh, you and so many people have no idea how many lives are going to be lost in the next century while every milquetoast liberal and conservative in the developed world roll their eyes and get pissed at slight annoyances like… checks notes colored corn starch on rocks you will never visit.
It’s like trying to shake someone in a dream to get them to pay attention. And the more you scream and hit them, the more they look ahead like zombies.
They HAVE sprayed BP’s factories and lots and machines, they have sabotaged equipment and chained themselves to machines and have caused material harm to companies like BP, but that doesn’t get any fucking coverage because media doesn’t want to encourage “violent activism” for fear of turning away viewers like YOU who are annoyed by such things.
It was as pointless as everything else, that’s why they did it, it’s screaming into the void to get attention.
It’s not just pointless, it’s potentially damaging to the cause. I don’t mind if someone rubs against the grain of public sentiment for a cause, so long as the way they do it actually accomplishes a goal.
Are there though? I’m old enough to remember this has gone on for decades without anyone doing anything of significance and now we’re at the actual edge of global catastrophe and STILL people are like “hmn, those kids should be recycling.”
And how does cornstarching rocks, or defacing art make any kind of difference? Is there any possible outcome that benefits the cause? It seems like the only thing this accomplishes is drowning out any other news about climate change for 2 to 3 weeks.
Bruh, you and so many people have no idea how many lives are going to be lost in the next century while every milquetoast liberal and conservative in the developed world roll their eyes and get pissed at slight annoyances like… checks notes colored corn starch on rocks you will never visit.
Just because someone disagrees with you on how to spend the very limited amount of political capital accumulated for climate change, does not mean they are less informed on the subject than you.
I don’t give a fuck about Stonehenge, but it’s stupid to believe that others do not. It’s also pretty stupid to ignore concepts like blowback and public sentiment.
They HAVE sprayed BP’s factories and lots and machines, they have sabotaged equipment and chained themselves to machines and have caused material harm to companies like BP, but that doesn’t get any fucking coverage because media doesn’t want to encourage “violent activism” for fear of turning away viewers like YOU who are annoyed by such things.
Lol, they arent afraid of turning away viewers, they are worried about turning away advertisers. They are part of the capital class preserving the fossil fuel industry. Of course they don’t want to spread violent activism. They would much rather all climate activists display protest that they can utilize to turn the public against the cause.
Which begs the question, why are these groups providing the media with ineffective protests that turn public opinion against the cause and garter a ton of negative press in the first place?
Even bad press is still press? I don’t have an opinion on Stonehenge yet; I’m pretty sure the art they “defaced” was only the protective casing; and I haven’t researched them enough to form a true opinion of my own
But now I’m curious as to whether (or not) “I think” their motives are “ignorant” or somehow “nefarious” at times. I’ve seen them in the news for a while now, and I haven’t always agreed with their course of action… sometimes I believe it to be too impulsive. But they’re still doing it. They’ve forced a discussion that keeps the issue in the forefront, and now it has me wanting to look-into their situation more. And I do believe-in what they’re advocating, even if I’m not sure it’s the “correct” way to do it
Yet here we are, talking about it. “There’s no such thing as ‘Bad Press’”, I guess? Are they right?.. maybe. Are they detracting from the plight?.. also, maybe. Am I sure of my opinion of their protests?.. no, not really. Seems like something I’ll have to read more about.
So maybe, mission accomplished (in-progress)? Idk, but I see the merit regardless of their actions
Stonehenge wasn’t harmed. The pigment is water soluble, it washes off with the rain. No chemical damage.
Glad you’re here to set us all right. Surely we’ll all be okay as long as people are teaching us to be civil and not… harm the cause. God forbid the cause be harmed.
I’m done, a lot of us are. Good luck.
Surely we’ll all be okay as long as people are teaching us to be civil and not… harm the cause.
I never claimed that I wanted people to remain “civil”, you can attack that strawman as you wish.
I don’t mind people engaging in violent disobedience or civil disobedience, every MLK needs a Malcom X. However, I just don’t see the benefit in this particular situation. If you are going to do something that could potentially harm public sentiment you should at least be doing something that materially changes things for the positive.
I’m done, a lot of us are. Good luck.
Get off your high horse, were all dealing with the same problem here. Just because someone differs in opinion on how political capital should be spent, it doesn’t mean your perspective has a monopoly on morality or anything.
You’re lost. Move on. The only person on a high horse here is you telling people that they’re protesting wrong.
You don’t have to sell me on climate change protests. I’ve attended a few myself.
I’m criticizing the delivery, not the message. The majority of people that heard that protest were those who travelled from around the world to see Stonehenge. Their plans were ruined, and they don’t care any more about climate change than they did that morning. Some may even resent the protesters.
Performative radicalism is only compelling to those already behind a cause. It’s discrediting to everyone else, who should be your target audience.
I’m criticizing the delivery, not the message.The majority of people that heard that protest were those who travelled from around the world to see Stonehenge. Their plans were ruined, and they don’t care any more about climate change than they did that morning. Some may even resent the protesters.
"You know, I don’t disagree that the coloreds should have more rights, but did they really need to sit at the lunch counter all day? I couldn’t sit at the counter and it made my lunch take so much longer. Really inconvenient to everyone trying to get some food.
I just wished they’d go about it differently. They’re liable to make people even less accepting of them if they keep pulling stunts like that."
I hope you know that’s what you sound like. Like, read the first paragraph of MLK Jr’s Letter from Birmingham Jail and you’ll see your argument in the “white moderate”:
I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can’t agree with your methods of direct action;” who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a “more convenient season.”
Those people were protesting that they weren’t allowed to sit at lunch counters. These people are not protesting the color of Stonehenge.
I’m criticizing the delivery, not the message.
I don’t care fucking one bit. It’s the same shit.
Is it? I used to bring literature to protests, now I bring QR codes. I’ve personally educated hundreds, if not thousands on initiatives over the years. That drives more change than ruining a family trip. Being compelling has been more successful than being loud in my experience.
I’ve heard of them. I’ve never heard of you. Your experience is insufficient data to be making this grandiose of a statement.
I’ve heard of them. I’ve never heard of you.
Not exactly a good thing… One of the problems with making a lot of noise is drowning out the voices of others on the same side.
Political capital is a thing, utilizing it in a protest that doesn’t really accomplish anything but turning public sentiment against your cause is kinda a dumb way to spend it.
You say they’re spending political capital. I say they’re building political capital. They’re creating a fuss. They’re creating noise, which can then be turned into action. What are you doing?
I advocate for the cause I protest, not myself. How many people do you think will be compelled to care or learn more about climate change after this protest? How many people’s plans to see Stonehenge were ruined, leading to resentment of the cause?
Activism isn’t like Trump’s campaign. Bad press is in fact, bad press.
They have compelled more discussion in this single thread than you have with your whole life. Your moral grandstanding is nice. Effective tactics are nicer.
nice whataboutism, “they should do this instead”. oh they do, but you don’t care when they do.
the delivery didn’t deface anything, if you want to focus on the delivery and once again ignore the message at least be honest. willing or not, messages like this do BP bidding
See, I’m reading it as saying that even with ‘drastic’ action like defacing a tourist attraction, governments just don’t care to put any serious thought into the climate change problem. They’ll put the blame on protestors for making us think for a minute and then go about their way until the world is uninhabitable.
But that’s okay, because for a moment they created a lot of shareholder value in their district.
I think the punchline goes multiple ways at once: “the protesters were stupid thinking this would help”, “the protesters were stupid in how they tried to protest”, and “everyone back then was stupid because it’s Waterworld now.”
My understanding was more: people are stupid for buying the media’s narrative despite the world being destroyed by what the protest was trying to tell us about, including the thing these people are supposedly upset about protecting.
So the meme is in agreement that defacing Stonehenge as a protest was pointless?
The meme is saying you’re getting angry about the wrong thing.
I’m not angry. I’m disappointed by performative radicalism of an important cause. It doesn’t help the message as much as it strokes the egos of those involved, and will likely be discrediting to those we need to reach.
It doesn’t help the message
Really? Because I’m seeing it being talked about a lot.
Debating the method of the performance is not the same as compelling people to learn about climate change and join protests. If anything, it has the opposite effect. It’s only compelling to those already in the fold, and therefore counterproductive to the cause.
It is though. We’re talking about it now, but responding your disproving your own theory.
Everyone having this particular exact discussion is already convinced, though.
Probably not or there wouldn’t be discussion.
There’s no stopping climate change in capitalism.
And nothing was done in the way of ending capitalism. Asking “pretty please stop using oil we will paint things” to a capitalist government is ridiculous. The only way to end emissions is being us the ones who control the industry.
So, from my point of view was a useless, possibly counter productive, action.
They also demand system change not climate change. But resting on “if we don’t abolish capitalism, everything else is useless” we will never abolish capitalism. It is not a binary switch. It is a long and hard process for which every action counts. And defying the capitalist order and narrative of the corrupt and immoral government is an important step towards that.
Nobody will be more capitalist and more for the use of fossil fuels after he read whatever Murdoch tabloid complained about this. And who was like “well now i am against climate action” was just looking for an excuse, but always on the wrong side already.
To some extent communism could be trading one problem for another authoritarian that doesn’t care. Powerfully influencing culture to be altruistic and not money hungry is probably the real solution but the tangible one would be a big step back toward democratic socialism. Jus my 2 cents
From my experience capitalism and climate activism are incompatible ideologies. Capitalism is entirely, without a doubt, entirely focused on the bottom line. If it doesn’t make them more money and/or costs them more money, they’re against it. That’s why something as universally bad as smoking took so long to be essentially outed as a problem, and something people should actively avoid. Just watch “thank you for smoking” for more detail on that one.
Cleaning up factory emissions and by-products/waste, doesn’t earn companies any money. It’s the right thing to do, but it’s far easier and cheaper to simply dump the raw waste into the environment. Whether thats chemical runoff, or toxic fumes, or carbon emissions, etc. To safely collect and dispose of the by-products is an expensive process.
Any efforts from companies that are “green” is either that they can offer you a marginally less-bad (environmentally) product at a reduced cost to them. Whether that is because they passed those costs onto the consumer, or because the “green” alternative is actually cheaper, is the only question. As soon as the “green” alternative costs them more and they can’t justify an increase in product cost for being “green”, they simply won’t do it. Anything outside of this scope is simply a PR stunt to try to gain favor with the more environmentally conscious consumers to try to pull them away from their current brand loyalties, over to your brand.
Pretty much all pr stunts of this sort are one-offs, to give the illusion of making an effort, while doing essentially nothing actually helpful.
Unless they can somehow make a profit from “saving the planet” then they won’t do it. It’s against their very nature.
Won’t you just think of the shareholders? /s
Y’all are protesting the death of humanity wrong /s
Man, the way this channels a mix of “it is the children who are wrong” and sheer impotence is hitting me hard. I mean, it really explains so much about modern activism.
I attended my first protest thirty years ago. Modern activists need to be more clever. Learn the law so you know how to circumvent it. Turning things up to 11 just gets you discredited as “radicals” in the media. It’s a fruitless attempt at awareness that will just get you charged.
Learn the law so you know how to circumvent it. Turning things up to 11 just gets you discredited as “radicals” in the media. It’s a fruitless attempt at awareness that will just get you charged.
You do realize that the UK has been illegally criminalizing lawful protests? You do realize that the media does not give a flying fuck about what is legal or illegal or how illegal something is, when painting activists as “radicals” or even worse “terrorists”? In Germany people who glued themselves to the streets were compared to the RAF terrorist organization that planted bombs, abducted and assassinated people, that hijacked planes and committed many armed bank robberies.
What is legal or not does not matter. What is moral or not does not matter. What is true or not does not matter. You have a far right authoritarian government that subverts the rule of law at every possible moment, aided by a fascist media conglomerate that will spread dramatized desinformation against any progressive cause while covering up the very real crimes of the government and aligned groups.
