For the longest time, “liberal” seemed like it basically just meant “Democrat” the same way “conservative” has/had been used to mean “Republican.” Now, it seems like it means “bad Democrat” and is even worse than being MAGA the way many seem to use it. Where did its use as an insult within the [relative] political left come from, and what does it specifically accuse/identify someone of/as?

  • Cuberoot@lemmynsfw.com
    152·
    3 months ago

    Phil Ochs says it better than I can:

    In every American community there are varying shades of political opinion. One of the shadiest of these is the liberals. An outspoken group on many subjects, ten degrees to the left of center in good times, ten degrees to the right of center if it affects them personally.

    The issues have changed slightly from the 1960s, but his song’s accusations of hypocrisy and NIMBYism among those who publicly espouse progressive causes still hit close enough to home.

    • cabbage@piefed.social
      91·
      3 months ago

      I think a big part of the problem is that liberalism dates back to the 17th century, and western civilisation is kind of built on top of it.

      As a result it could fit pretty much anywhere on the political spectrum. I consider myself pretty leftist, but of course I’m a fucking liberal. I take issue with inheritance and I believe in taxing billionaires out of existence, but that’s completely consistent with liberalism. And so is disagreeing with me.

      I guess a central thing about liberalism is refusing patriarchalism, which would explain why the stalinists and the trumpists alike get upset by it.

    • Hereforpron2@lemmynsfw.comOPEnglish
      4·
      3 months ago

      Ahh that’s interesting, so the issue is as much having a conveniently shifting position as it is a further-right-than-progressives static position. Thanks a ton, that helps me understand a lot!

      • Archelon@lemmy.world
        91·
        3 months ago

        Basically liberalism tends to be capitalist, whereas leftism tends to be anticapitalist. Historically, there’s been a pattern of centrists and capitalist allying with authoritarians and fascists against leftists, so the insult boils down to “you’d support a fascist before you went against capitalism”

        • Optional@lemmy.world
          4·
          3 months ago

          Leftism, as it has been represented on Lemmy, also doesn’t usually have a path forward other than seizing weapons and goods and magically reforming everything through the miracle of revolution. So in one sense, kind of worse than useless if one were attempting to affect positive change.

          • The Stoned Hacker@lemmy.world
            3·
            3 months ago

            Anyone who thinks a revolution without a very solid, well researched, and peer reviewed plan is a good idea is an accerelationist at best.

            That being said, those who make peaceful change impossible make violent change inevitable. Eventually the powder keg will blow, and the way things are I don’t think we’ll have a single modicum of control.