They must have done a cost/benefit analysis and came to the obvious conclusion that having to build multiple variants would be more costly than the profit they’d have earned by continuing to gouge all the non-EU consumers on proprietary cables and junk.
The world owes the EU a debt of gratitude for forcing apple compliance on this one.
I think both things are valid. Apple should adopt RCS, but also that standard should be further pushed to include better features and not just stagnate
Alas, sorting software is much cheaper to implement than differing hardware, so the cost benefit analysis would work out differently in that case I expect…
Well we’re already getting removable batteries which is exciting as fuck. That one will require even more of a major redesign that it will 100% come to the US.
No. They won’t. The iPad has a USB C port and has for years. They support USB mass storage just fine, as well as video and audio adapters. The files app (which is the same on both iOS and iPadOS) already read USB storage devices using a lightning to USB adapter. And both have supported USB mics over their respective ports.
Yeah they definitely made empty threats until they just succumbed. Their iPads are USB-C, their laptops are packed with USB-C ports. It’s obvious that, as one of the wealthiest companies in the world it’s not a problem to switch their hardware
Why would Apple go through the effort to offer you new features if it can just deny standard features to older/cheaper models so you pony up for a new phone?
The most innovative thing Apple is no longer the iPad/iPhone, by a long shot. Maybe their VR set, but it’s too early to tell.
I’m a bit out of the loop about USB C, but to me the ridiculous thing is that we have different standards with USB C at all, I guess it is because it improved over time???
It might sound surprising but it makes a lot of sense to have different standards supported over USB-C. USB-C is just a form factor of the connector.
For USB 3 or USB4 speeds you physically need more wires in the cable, while for USB 2.0 you only need 5 wires.
Also if you want really high data transfer rates of 40 or 80Gbit/s the cable can only be around 1 meter or 3 feet long.
So because USB-C supports different USB versions, a charging cable can simply be USB 2.0 and be cheaper and long and do it’s job just fine.
If USB-C was only USB4 it wouldn’t be all that useful. Devices like wireless mice or DACs or game controllers wouldn’t/ couldn’t use it and the cables would all be thick and expensive and short. And for charging regular things we’d still be stuck with micro USB.
The only downside is that, yes if you are doing a thing where you need high speeds such as connecting a screen or external disk to a PC you do need to check that you’re using a high speed cable, but pretty much all good quality fast cables have the speed printed onto the connector housing.
But yes the iPhone restricting speeds to 2.0 is strange and most definitely just a trick to sell more pro models. There are plenty of devices that simply have no need for anything besides 2.0, be it because they send no data or just very little. But phones really aren’t in that category.
The CPU seems pretty decent, and quite overkill actually for a majority of users. Decent CPU, low RAM, and low data transfer speeds, but I guess Apple has to pay to license the latter two so of course they want to cut corners there. You don’t get to several trillion in valuation as a company otherwise.
I guess most people didn’t watch apple event. Pro models have new A17 cpu with usb 3 controller inside, while regular iPhone 15 has last years Pro model A16 cpu (Apple does that with every new generation) which didn’t have usb 3 controller since lightning is still usb 2. iPads have support for usb 3 because they have separate usb 3 controller (not inside cpu because more space) so claiming that iPads have it for years is true but for different reason. So logically it would make sense that iPhone 16 base models will have A17 cpu with usb 3 controller.
It’s cheaper to manufacture one device for the whole world. Moreover, states like California are probably going to also force manufacturers to use USB C. And more than 1 in 10 Americans lives in CA.
While it might be cheaper, it’s rarely possible. Different countries have different frequencies and other stuff, so you still need to make different SKUs for different markets.
That used to be the case, but most phones now use radios that can support necessary frequencies and protocols globally. It’s also helped that the network side has also been more standardized compared to the 3g days.
Even in the US, only some high end phones support mmWave. It’s never required for service as the few areas covered by mmWave also have low or mid band 5g coverage too.
True. It basically means the connector component will be universal. Which will lower the manufacturing cost of it.
That said, it also means that the 1st party and third party peripheral market will be universal. It would be a nightmare if companies like Anker and Belkin had to make two of every damn peripheral.
There were already rumors Apple was going to switch the iPhone as it was the last device with Lightening. The EU mandate is convenient cover for deprecating all those cables and devices people have bought over the years.
There are still some accessories that still use the Lightning port. Most notably the AirPods, AirPods Max, Magic Keyboard, Magic Mouse and Magic Trackpad. I don’t know if these will get a USB-C update or not.
I just don’t understand this confusion. There really isn’t been a question of whether or not they were moving to USB-C for at least 6 months. The only question was whether it would be thunder bolt or not, and it isn’t. The narrative was always that they’d keep lightning for 10 years and then move to something new, Schiller even called it “a modern connector for the next decade” when it was announced, and at the time it was better than anything else on the market.
Now USB-C is the standard and superior, and it’s cheaper to bring the iPhone in line with that standard than to keep lightning or develop a new port/connector. As soon as the iPads went USB-C it was a foregone conclusion that the iPhone would follow suit, and anyone who was paying attention should have known it would happen this year, 10 years after lightning was introduced as a 10 year plan.
I don’t keep a super close eye on Apple’s recent products. I don’t really care enough to be in the know about what they might do next, I just hear about what comes out as it comes out and move on with my life. I also wasn’t aware that there was a 10 year plan because I was too young to care when it was announced. Sorry for the confusion :(
Then I can’t help but ask why you would hold, let alone share, an opinion when you’re so openly uninformed? You say you don’t care, but you cared enough to make a disparaging comment for… reasons?
To be honest, whenever I see someone make a comment like you did I assume that your explanation here, ignorance, is the reason. Props to you for acknowledging that.
My views on Apple are based on what I’ve heard about them from the perspective of the right to repair movement and people like Louis Rossmann. Because I’ve heard about them doing questionable things in the past, my expectation is that they would have similar ulterior motives in the present. I thought that my comment would be voicing a common opinion, and at the time it had not been expressed yet. I apologize for not doing my research before leaving a comment /srs
USB-C worldwide? That surprises me, I thought it’d just be the EU. I wonder what the catch will be 🤔
They must have done a cost/benefit analysis and came to the obvious conclusion that having to build multiple variants would be more costly than the profit they’d have earned by continuing to gouge all the non-EU consumers on proprietary cables and junk.
The world owes the EU a debt of gratitude for forcing apple compliance on this one.
Next step: EU forces RCS compatibility
deleted by creator
I hope not. RCS still has issues. Example, it still requires you to have a phone number. iMessage can be used with an email address.
The Apple insider podcast gents did a nice break down of this a few months ago. iMessage is a lot more than just proprietary RCS.
I’d be happy with just a functional bridge between iMessage and RCS
Doesn’t it require Google servers to work also?
Yes, and people sending messages through Google’s servers have to use Google’s encryption keys.
It still has issues, but it’s much better than SMS, which is currently the only option for messaging between Android and iOS.
Well aside from like all the messaging apps, right?
All the not interconnected apps yes.
Sorry, I meant “the only built-in option for messaging between Android and iOS.” A lot of people don’t want to install any third-party messaging apps.
I think both things are valid. Apple should adopt RCS, but also that standard should be further pushed to include better features and not just stagnate
I’m willing to bet Apple will adopt RCS as soon as it can be implemented seamlessly.
Never. The epic court case has evidence showing Apple views iMessage as a moat to hold their users hostage.
Let’s be honest, who the fuck doesn’t have a phone number in 2023? My 9 year old cousin has an iPhone SE.
The point is that iMessage can be used with a computer or tablet that doesn’t have a phone number.
Ah, that I can understand then.
Alas, sorting software is much cheaper to implement than differing hardware, so the cost benefit analysis would work out differently in that case I expect…
One can dream, but recent news is a setback towards this goal: https://bgr.com/tech/eu-ruling-says-apple-doesnt-need-to-add-rcs-support-to-imessage/
Probably because iMessage will be forced to add interoperability using a protocol like Signal, Matrix or XMPP.
Well we’re already getting removable batteries which is exciting as fuck. That one will require even more of a major redesign that it will 100% come to the US.
All hail the EU for saving tech.
US people are going to complain about that probay alot for a few years.
I two ports would also hurt the accessory market. American phones would likely miss out on a lot of toys.
Oh, don’t worry, Apple will still gate the port and only allow “approved” devices to transfer data.
No. They won’t. The iPad has a USB C port and has for years. They support USB mass storage just fine, as well as video and audio adapters. The files app (which is the same on both iOS and iPadOS) already read USB storage devices using a lightning to USB adapter. And both have supported USB mics over their respective ports.
Looks like there is no MFI bullshit on this. https://www.gsmarena.com/usb_ctoc_cables_for_iphone_15_and_15_plus_handled_no_mfi_usb_20_speeds-news-59649.php
That’s good news! But that same report says it’s limited to USB 2.0, which seems a bit weird for a 2023 device, but small wins, I guess.
2.0 on the 15, 3.0 on the Pro models.
Stupid imo, but likely fine for the vast, vast majority of use cases.
Many Android phones are USB 2.0 too. Mine does to my annoyance. The fact that transferring files is faster over wifi than cable is wild.
Yeah they definitely made empty threats until they just succumbed. Their iPads are USB-C, their laptops are packed with USB-C ports. It’s obvious that, as one of the wealthiest companies in the world it’s not a problem to switch their hardware
It still supports usb2 data rates, reportedly.
I’m ok with that, but if you have to move lots of data that’s a bummer.
You get usb 3 speeds on iPhone 15 pro. Still it’s ridiculous that you don’t get usb 3 on the base model
Why would Apple go through the effort to offer you new features if it can just deny standard features to older/cheaper models so you pony up for a new phone?
The most innovative thing Apple is no longer the iPad/iPhone, by a long shot. Maybe their VR set, but it’s too early to tell.
Putting usb c, usb3 speeds or 120hz in the phone isn’t innovative though. £200 android phones have all of these…
I’m a bit out of the loop about USB C, but to me the ridiculous thing is that we have different standards with USB C at all, I guess it is because it improved over time???
It might sound surprising but it makes a lot of sense to have different standards supported over USB-C. USB-C is just a form factor of the connector.
For USB 3 or USB4 speeds you physically need more wires in the cable, while for USB 2.0 you only need 5 wires. Also if you want really high data transfer rates of 40 or 80Gbit/s the cable can only be around 1 meter or 3 feet long.
So because USB-C supports different USB versions, a charging cable can simply be USB 2.0 and be cheaper and long and do it’s job just fine.
If USB-C was only USB4 it wouldn’t be all that useful. Devices like wireless mice or DACs or game controllers wouldn’t/ couldn’t use it and the cables would all be thick and expensive and short. And for charging regular things we’d still be stuck with micro USB.
The only downside is that, yes if you are doing a thing where you need high speeds such as connecting a screen or external disk to a PC you do need to check that you’re using a high speed cable, but pretty much all good quality fast cables have the speed printed onto the connector housing.
But yes the iPhone restricting speeds to 2.0 is strange and most definitely just a trick to sell more pro models. There are plenty of devices that simply have no need for anything besides 2.0, be it because they send no data or just very little. But phones really aren’t in that category.
Thank you for the explanation!
I don’t think too many people use the USB port on their phone for data transfer, other than flashing phones and debugging stuff.
Now if only the cost of the device reflected it’s severely outdated hardware.
Like the CPU?
The CPU seems pretty decent, and quite overkill actually for a majority of users. Decent CPU, low RAM, and low data transfer speeds, but I guess Apple has to pay to license the latter two so of course they want to cut corners there. You don’t get to several trillion in valuation as a company otherwise.
I guess most people didn’t watch apple event. Pro models have new A17 cpu with usb 3 controller inside, while regular iPhone 15 has last years Pro model A16 cpu (Apple does that with every new generation) which didn’t have usb 3 controller since lightning is still usb 2. iPads have support for usb 3 because they have separate usb 3 controller (not inside cpu because more space) so claiming that iPads have it for years is true but for different reason. So logically it would make sense that iPhone 16 base models will have A17 cpu with usb 3 controller.
It’s cheaper to manufacture one device for the whole world. Moreover, states like California are probably going to also force manufacturers to use USB C. And more than 1 in 10 Americans lives in CA.
While it might be cheaper, it’s rarely possible. Different countries have different frequencies and other stuff, so you still need to make different SKUs for different markets.
That used to be the case, but most phones now use radios that can support necessary frequencies and protocols globally. It’s also helped that the network side has also been more standardized compared to the 3g days.
5G in Europe and in the US is completely different still.
As far as I can tell it’s just the C band frequency range, and radios supporting either generally support both.
Many manufacturers released their phones without mmWave antennas outside of the US. Like iPhone 13 or Pixel 6.
Even in the US, only some high end phones support mmWave. It’s never required for service as the few areas covered by mmWave also have low or mid band 5g coverage too.
That’s not what this thread is about.
True. It basically means the connector component will be universal. Which will lower the manufacturing cost of it.
That said, it also means that the 1st party and third party peripheral market will be universal. It would be a nightmare if companies like Anker and Belkin had to make two of every damn peripheral.
There were already rumors Apple was going to switch the iPhone as it was the last device with Lightening. The EU mandate is convenient cover for deprecating all those cables and devices people have bought over the years.
There are still some accessories that still use the Lightning port. Most notably the AirPods, AirPods Max, Magic Keyboard, Magic Mouse and Magic Trackpad. I don’t know if these will get a USB-C update or not.
AirPods Pro already are.
The rest will follow suit, likely with a generational update. I’m expecting USBC AirPods Max 2 this coming spring.
I hope they bring new colors to that as well.
AirPods is
You’re talking about the AirPods Pro, which did get USB-C, not the regular AirPods, which didn’t.
That’s a good question. Those items seem to get updated like once a decade. It would be nice if they got updated to USB-C.
So I guess we’ll be waiting until the 2030s for the next update for the Magic accessories
Probably. Unless they get a bill from the EU and suddenly remember they sell keyboards and trackpads. 😂
XD
I just don’t understand this confusion. There really isn’t been a question of whether or not they were moving to USB-C for at least 6 months. The only question was whether it would be thunder bolt or not, and it isn’t. The narrative was always that they’d keep lightning for 10 years and then move to something new, Schiller even called it “a modern connector for the next decade” when it was announced, and at the time it was better than anything else on the market.
Now USB-C is the standard and superior, and it’s cheaper to bring the iPhone in line with that standard than to keep lightning or develop a new port/connector. As soon as the iPads went USB-C it was a foregone conclusion that the iPhone would follow suit, and anyone who was paying attention should have known it would happen this year, 10 years after lightning was introduced as a 10 year plan.
I don’t keep a super close eye on Apple’s recent products. I don’t really care enough to be in the know about what they might do next, I just hear about what comes out as it comes out and move on with my life. I also wasn’t aware that there was a 10 year plan because I was too young to care when it was announced. Sorry for the confusion :(
Then I can’t help but ask why you would hold, let alone share, an opinion when you’re so openly uninformed? You say you don’t care, but you cared enough to make a disparaging comment for… reasons?
To be honest, whenever I see someone make a comment like you did I assume that your explanation here, ignorance, is the reason. Props to you for acknowledging that.
My views on Apple are based on what I’ve heard about them from the perspective of the right to repair movement and people like Louis Rossmann. Because I’ve heard about them doing questionable things in the past, my expectation is that they would have similar ulterior motives in the present. I thought that my comment would be voicing a common opinion, and at the time it had not been expressed yet. I apologize for not doing my research before leaving a comment /srs