probably that he’s not from there. absent other information, his lisp would then indicate that he is imitating the accent in order to sound more cultured. like someone from the us midwest saying “have you been to mehico?”
Different vowels, though. Like I said below, I wonder what the “pretentious” read would be with an accurate Catalan pronuntiation. Gonna guess it’d pass better, because all anglophones tend to know about that whole situation is “Castillian Spanish lisp hur hur”.
Maybe that’s why this strip and the whole “he said it with a lisp to sound cultured” joke rub me the wrong way. It always seems like latching on to the pretentiousness to get away with an ignorant or xenophobic joke.
The first a is a schwa and the o isn’t rounded.
Honestly, it looks quite similar to English, to the point where there might be some English dialect that sounds exactly like that.
And then there’s the layer on the other side, because the majority of Spanish speakers worldwide pronounce it with an “S” sound.
So, the majority of Spanish speakers in the Americas (which by far outnumber the number of Spanish speakers in Spain) use an “S” sound. The dominant form of Spanish in Spain uses the “th”, but the local dialect goes back to an “S” sound.
So, what rule are you going to go by? How the locals say it? The most locally of locals will use an “S” sound. How the majority of Spanish speakers say it? That’s again an “S” sound. How the majority of the people in the country who legal sovereignty over that region say it? Then I guess you’d go with the “TH” sound.
The most logical rule, to me, is to pronounce it however the person you’re speaking to will most easily understand it. In English to another English speaker, that almost certainly isn’t going to be the “th” pronunciation.
That’s fine, I intend to aggressively say “Los An-heles” and “Ari-tho-nah” from now on, see how the anglophones deal with using a normal accent to say their names.
I mean, I get it, it sounds weird when people say “Los Anyeles” or “London” when speaking Spanish, too. But… you know, if the spelling is the same I don’t see the problem using the way it’s actually meant to be said.
I’ve gotten enough weird looks for ordering a “BuRRi-toh” in anglo speaking countries to be annoyed by this. And don’t get me started with how Americans have chosen to pronounce “Los Gatos”. If you’re going to steal our word you at least could give us the deference of not mocking us for saying it correctly.
Now, if the anglophone in question is out there calling it “Barna” you know they’re a poser.
This drove the point home for me. If a Spanish-speaker says “London”, it just sounds completely wrong. For those wondering, it’s pronounced “Londres” in Spanish.
saying “barcelona” with a faked spanish accent is the same as saying “berlin” with a faked german one. it’s weird, and it makes you took pretentious. bar th elona and ibi th a are just common versions because a lot of people know about them.
now, some people can’t help it. they might be german, for example. that’s different, and the comic is saying we shouldn’t judge for that, and we shouldn’t assume someone is trying to sound clever just because they pronounce a word differently.
I really disagree honestly. I think at least attempting yo match local pronunciation, at least when there’s no translated name available for the language you’re speaking, is just respectful to the people there. I have no issues with someone saying berlin the english way, but I’ll always appreciate the attempt to pronounce it german. Ane this goes moreso for places where the typical english pronunciation is just completely off (such as english speakers silencing trailing 'e’s and such).
Slightly, anyway. It’s less annoying than hearing Colbert do it (he really likes this one, and generally slightly xenophobic country stereotype jokes, for some reason), but it always rubs me the wrong way a little bit, for the reasons I mentioned elsewhere.
I mean, I’m not mad or anything, I still get to have a sense of humor. For as much as “guy speaks funny” is one of those, anyway.
probably that he’s not from there. absent other information, his lisp would then indicate that he is imitating the accent in order to sound more cultured. like someone from the us midwest saying “have you been to mehico?”
Barcelona kinda has an extra layer of this too, because Catalan does pronounce “Barcelona” with an S sound rather than an unvoiced TH
Someone should make a silly comic about it
Different vowels, though. Like I said below, I wonder what the “pretentious” read would be with an accurate Catalan pronuntiation. Gonna guess it’d pass better, because all anglophones tend to know about that whole situation is “Castillian Spanish lisp hur hur”.
Maybe that’s why this strip and the whole “he said it with a lisp to sound cultured” joke rub me the wrong way. It always seems like latching on to the pretentiousness to get away with an ignorant or xenophobic joke.
The Wikipedia entry has a pronunciation guide:
English: [bɑːrsəˈloʊnə]
Catalan: [bəɾsəˈlonə]
The first a is a schwa and the o isn’t rounded. Honestly, it looks quite similar to English, to the point where there might be some English dialect that sounds exactly like that.
Having heard native speakers say it many times, this post is mostly showing the limitations of IPA because… yeah, no, not really.
And then there’s the layer on the other side, because the majority of Spanish speakers worldwide pronounce it with an “S” sound.
So, the majority of Spanish speakers in the Americas (which by far outnumber the number of Spanish speakers in Spain) use an “S” sound. The dominant form of Spanish in Spain uses the “th”, but the local dialect goes back to an “S” sound.
So, what rule are you going to go by? How the locals say it? The most locally of locals will use an “S” sound. How the majority of Spanish speakers say it? That’s again an “S” sound. How the majority of the people in the country who legal sovereignty over that region say it? Then I guess you’d go with the “TH” sound.
The most logical rule, to me, is to pronounce it however the person you’re speaking to will most easily understand it. In English to another English speaker, that almost certainly isn’t going to be the “th” pronunciation.
That’s fine, I intend to aggressively say “Los An-heles” and “Ari-tho-nah” from now on, see how the anglophones deal with using a normal accent to say their names.
I mean, I get it, it sounds weird when people say “Los Anyeles” or “London” when speaking Spanish, too. But… you know, if the spelling is the same I don’t see the problem using the way it’s actually meant to be said.
I’ve gotten enough weird looks for ordering a “BuRRi-toh” in anglo speaking countries to be annoyed by this. And don’t get me started with how Americans have chosen to pronounce “Los Gatos”. If you’re going to steal our word you at least could give us the deference of not mocking us for saying it correctly.
Now, if the anglophone in question is out there calling it “Barna” you know they’re a poser.
That makes me feel upset.
This drove the point home for me. If a Spanish-speaker says “London”, it just sounds completely wrong. For those wondering, it’s pronounced “Londres” in Spanish.
When my dad is trying to joke about it he’ll call it “Londón”, and I’m weirdly fine with that.
i feel like the wider point got missed there.
saying “barcelona” with a faked spanish accent is the same as saying “berlin” with a faked german one. it’s weird, and it makes you took pretentious. bar th elona and ibi th a are just common versions because a lot of people know about them.
now, some people can’t help it. they might be german, for example. that’s different, and the comic is saying we shouldn’t judge for that, and we shouldn’t assume someone is trying to sound clever just because they pronounce a word differently.
I really disagree honestly. I think at least attempting yo match local pronunciation, at least when there’s no translated name available for the language you’re speaking, is just respectful to the people there. I have no issues with someone saying berlin the english way, but I’ll always appreciate the attempt to pronounce it german. Ane this goes moreso for places where the typical english pronunciation is just completely off (such as english speakers silencing trailing 'e’s and such).
if you are attempting to communicate with locals, sure. if not, you just make yourself harder to understand.
Bey-a lean
Yeah, no, I get the joke.
I’m just annoyed by the joke.
Slightly, anyway. It’s less annoying than hearing Colbert do it (he really likes this one, and generally slightly xenophobic country stereotype jokes, for some reason), but it always rubs me the wrong way a little bit, for the reasons I mentioned elsewhere.
I mean, I’m not mad or anything, I still get to have a sense of humor. For as much as “guy speaks funny” is one of those, anyway.
yeh. “accent humor” is almost always just thinly veiled just racism or ableism. here at least it’s got a bit of a spin on it. not a lot, but some.
Fair but unkind. People talk weird most of the time. 😺
yes, that is indeed the joke of the comic.