Is there a reason the European powers aren’t chipping in? They realize Putin is going to invade them next, right?
Where did you get this from?
History. No bloodthirsty conqueror ever stopped conquering until someone stopped him, usually by killing him.
Nukes
And what is wrong with Ukraine not just bashing its head into russian defenses and instead go for a slow-and-steady approach? They still have reserves to spare, word is Ukraine is rotating its troops on the front regularly. So as long as Ukraine can keep up the pressure and russia not being able to stop their slow advance, they will be successful eventually. Would another Kharkiv thrunder-run be preferable? Surely.
But russia is prepared this time. And instead of being all doom-and-gloom, the West could step up its commitment to see Ukraine win. Apart from artillery shell production, weapon manufacturers still see no increase in weapons procurement. It’s time for the West to let actions follow its words on support of Ukraine. As long as their words ring hollow, Putin only has to wait and eventually outpace dwindling western support.The problem of that approach is that winter is coming soon and battles will soon ground to a halt. Which will give Russians the time to build up their defensive layers again.
Spring offensive of 2024 will commence afterwards. And then the spring offensive of 2025, 2026, 2027…
Plus tanks work better in the winter and Russia has quite a few of them which are cheap and easy to deploy.
Had quite a few of them.
Ukraine is fighting for their existence, russia is fighting for the oligarchs. Ukraine will prevail.
I will try to remember this in 6 months.
is 1 week special operation going well ?
Vlad Vexler tried to explain why the some in the western political left, defend russia: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=017WGzJ5fHA
Denys Davydov did video on these type of comments about a week ago. He dragged up a lot of newspaper front pages of the invasion of the Nazis in 1945. There was a ton of articles stating just how slow the move was going. An attacking force is always going to have a hard time against a very entrenched enemy. You also have to remember Ukraine does not have a good air force until they get those pilots trained up for the F-16. They are making gains and are knocking on the second defence line in two areas. Any gains Russia has made they loose 2 days later, with the exception of Bakhmut.
And another important thing to bear in mind is that the start of the advance is the hardest part of the advance. Russia has built up a thick crust of defensive lines. At some point the advance penetrates that crust, and then the gooey center goes much more quickly.
As far as I can tell, this prolifically posting account has literally never posted an article that wasn’t negative on Ukraine, and posts about 90% negative on the West in general. For whatever that’s worth.
And half the comments in this thread are from queermunist, who’s all for the “just let Russia have what it wants and everything will be great” side.
The flood of Rexiters did a lot to smother the tankie presence on the Lemmyverse, but it’s clearly still a strong undercurrent.
Eager to see what coping everyone switches to when it becomes obvious to Ukraine that the deal Russia offered in 2022 before the Kiev withdrawal was the best possible reality they would ever see again. Little Weimar on the Dnieper. No NATO, no EU, no Donbass, no Crimea.
Then again the epic bacon sirs will probably be given a new shiny thing in Asia or Africa to focus on.
Here’s another one.
Lol, it’s like finding shitty Easter eggs
Wow, not even a crumb of cope? What about the jets? Potential gamechanger I think.
I feel like I could invade your home unprovoked and take over your kitchen, eventually trashing up the floors to setup trenches to prevent you from retaking it and you’d just agree to negotiate and let me take your bedroom to fuck your mother.
You joined a platform founded and inhabited by Marxist Leninist and checks notes … expected them to leave. Wtf?
We joined a platform founded and inhabited by Marxist leninists and checks notes … Expected them to not support an authoritarian capitalist country. Is that really too much to ask?
Glad you understand what America is, and why the Marxist-Leninist here criticize it. Welcome home.
No, I expected them to go hide in their little corner of it when the bulk of the population moving here turned out to reject their particular view on reality.
Whether they “founded” the platform is irrelevant, it’s an open platform and they’re going to be in the minority.
Edit: Oh, and since you switched the goalposts from tankies to “Marxist Leninists”, I figured I should point that out. I’m specifically talking about the people who think Russia’s full of awesome and manliness and crap like that, rather than being the kleptocratic mafia state basket case it actually is. “Marxist Lenninism” is just a word those people use to sound intellectual.
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In the past day I’ve been described as being “from” noncredibledefense and “from” datahoarder. I do happen to subscribe to both those communities, but I’m not “from” anywhere in particular. Those are just some of many subjects I’m interested in. It’s odd, this sort of community identification never seemed to come up on Reddit. And you personally certainly didn’t bring me here, I don’t know who you are.
Also, not sure why you’ve identified me as a “Liberal.” Haven’t voted for them in several elections now.
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😂 Lol
Posting “90% negative on the West in general” is still softballing it.
But yeah… still lots of pro-Russian propaganda flowing around here.
Well I don’t believe you’re real either.
If this is a play on my username, I laughed.
I guess Washington Post is Russian propaganda now…
I didn’t attack the source. I just pointed out that someone posting more than most on lemmy could push a certain point of view using any and all sources if they cherry pick.
Wow, that’s a new one. “I can’t question the legitimacy of the source so I’ll question the legitimacy of the poster as a way of refusing to engage with reality”
Quick, throw more money on the fire!
Better than the tankie method of using lives instead!
It’s good use for the money, this way it’s not used to buy Russian fossil fuel or help billionaires commit suicide in expensive vanity submarines.
The problem is that Ukraine is given enough not to lose, but not enough to win. At this rate, Ukraine will depend on western hand-outs much longer than if the West fully committed to see Ukraine restore its borders.
What do you think “winning” looks like tho? Absolutely annihilating Russia?
Forcing Russia to stop and reverse its invasion. If you think that it will take the total annihilation of russia, so be it.
No. I don’t think that’s “winning”. First of all Russia is more than just Putin. Actual people live there. As much as in Ukraine. They wouldn’t be that much better than Russia if Ukraine “invaded” Russia back. Also for that to happen the west would need to support Ukraine so dramatically that it most certainly would come to a nuclear Supergau. This “total annihilation of Russia” would mean in return the total annihilation of the human race.
I don’t think Ukraine can “win” against Russia with sheer military might. No matter how much they are supported. That’s an archaic view of politics and war. The only real solution to bring piece is a peace contract. It isn’t the 11th century anymore where two armies would clash against each other and the one coming out victorious is the winning party of the war. I’m not one of those “stop giving Ukraine weapons and military aid und jUsT tAlK wItH pUtIn” guys but in the end there has to be a treaty. And you can’t do that by just bombing the shit out of Russia cuz that’d mean the end of the fucking world.
That’s the point. The West doesn’t want the war to ever end.
Then it’s up to the people to demand more support from Ukraine.
Absurd. America has already given $75 billion in “assistance” to keep this war going, imagine if that had been spent on people who need it in America? And you want to spend even more than that??? Every bomb is food stolen from the mouth of a hungry child.
Imagine if Russia hadn’t invaded Europe.
About 24 billion is non-military financial aid and 4 billion more is humanitarian, so that’s a big chunk not being spent on bombs. Slightly more than half of the remainder is the estimated value of old stock being sent over and therefore could not be “spent” on assistance for Americans anyway. The remaining 23 billion that is actually money spent on equipment and training is less than half of one percent of annual federal government expenditure. Weapons for Ukraine are not the reason money isn’t being spent on what you want it to be spent on.
How many billions of dollars do you want to spend on bombs?
Depends on what the countries sending it can afford and what it would take for Russia to stop invading. That’s not the point I’m making. The point is that the none of the countries aiding Ukraine are currently spending anything anywhere close to enough of their budgets to significantly affect any other spending they do. If you’re unhappy with how your government directs the other 99.6% of its budget, yeah, I get that. I am at mine too. But helping Ukraine is not the problem there.
It would literally never go to social programs and you know it.
Yeah because this is a demon shithole country. Money only gets spent on murder, never on helping fucking anyone.
What is your plan than?
What should the west do?
Let me guess, you have no alternative that does not boil down to “Let Putin and people like him do what they want.”
Negotiate an end to the war. I’d support a UN monitored vote in the Donbass region and Crimea (and any other contested area) on whether they want to join Russia or stay with Ukraine.
Negotiate an end to the war.
Russia refuses to give back the lands seized.
Now what to you do?
I’d support a UN monitored vote in the Donbass region and Crimea (and any other contested area) on whether they want to join Russia or stay with Ukraine.
Not an option the Ukrainian gov will accept. Nor should they.
When parts of the USA wanted to leave that was not response from the USA.Let’s assume a peace is negotiated, in which each party assures it respects the aggreed-upon borders. Similar to the Budapest Memorandum, signed and broken by Russia. How could Ukraine trust them this time?
I’d support a UN monitored vote in the Donbass region and Crimea (and any other contested area) on whether they want to join Russia or stay with Ukraine.
That sounds good at first glance. But given Russia has the opportunity to persecute any opposition in the contested areas, and bring in loyal settlers, the results are likely skewed even if the vote itself is fair and transparent.
Fundamentally, I still don’t understand why one should negotiate with a burglar how much they get to keep.
Sorry, but as if. Russia is a UN veto power. And Russia would never accept UN troops sent by the West to oversee anything. And african nations won’t want to piss off Putin by agreeing to this. Putin wants his anti-NATO back and this war will only end with Putin thuroughly defeated.
Not to mention that such a vote would be a farce anyway. Russia has had enough time to kill, torture, intimidate or disappear enough people that such a vote could never be fair.
And as for the money spent on Ukraine, it’s but a cheap talking point to suggest that supporting Ukraine and supporting your own population are mutually exclusive. Not to mention believing that if the money wouldn’t have been spent on Ukraine, that your own people would’ve seen that money is pretty delusional. For starters, most of the support sent by the US is hardware. And the given value for that support is the replacement cost for the kit sent. However, most of the kit sent was due to be replaced anyways, so the actual cost for the US is much lower than the figure being thrown around.
You know full well we do not spend food on horn children in America for they come from sin. We only care about the unborn. Ask clearly you are fake american.
The problem is that Ukraine is given enough not to lose, but not enough to win.
The problem is that Ukraine is given what the West can afford to give, they haven’t got the industry to fight Russia’s war machine in a war of attrition anymore after deindustrialization and the shift to neoliberal policies. Sucks to suck, shouldn’t have shipped manufacturing to China to crush their domestic labor movement 😄
