I can totally understand Germany feeling obligated to help relatives of a population they genocided. But helping them while they genocide other people should be a red line.
Yeah the German attitude of “we genocided these people in the past therefore it’s our obligation to help them genocide other people” is pretty odd.
Please note not every German shares the same opinion on topics.
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Germany is a democracy and their policy reflects the will of its people.
Sadly the truth. But when your only point of contact with the genocide is hearing IDF
propagandapress releases on the news once a day it’s not surprising.Not to mention they would benefits from that sweet weapon industry money. 3 billions for the last 20 years
tl;dr: no.
Long version: Those profits most likely go to the Top 1‰ and we get nothing from it. Quite the opposite, in fact: Recently parliament removed the debt limit on defense spending (because Rheinmetal & Co. keep buying our politicians[1]). So now more money, that could go into crumbling infrastructure, will go to the pockets of those war proffiteurs.
We spend more money on our military than france and aren’t even able to guarantee combat readiness. Meanwhile they were able to partipitate in multiple
international law violatingwars.So no, we do not benifit from the sweet
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Exactly because they are a democracy, all people are allowed not to share the same opinion.
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Yeah why our government sends weapons despite recent developments is beyond me. The Israeli government crossed the red line over a year ago. Instead of focussing on Hamas and saving the hostages, they decided to commit war crimes.
Dude where the fuck am I supposed to even migrate to?
Austria? Maybe Switzerland? Maybe Ireland…
Ireland never genocided anyone.
Oh but wait, who was there before Celtic people arrived?
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They genozided the potatoes!
If you are against the existence of Israel, support Hamas or against a two state solution, don’t come to Germany or Austria. You wont be welcome here.
Btw. Most Germans support a Palestinian state and an end to the war, but also Israel’s right to existence.
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I delete your comment since your account is 2 hours old and we had to deal with another sock puppet in this thread already. And we need no Goodwin’s Law here.
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Germany are not the moral bastions you are portraying them as. Calling human rights supporters terrorists while you cosy up to genocidal regimes is plainly dishonest.
Germany doesn’t allow hate speech like the US does. And Hamas arent human rights supporters.
So this is a huge fallacy. Yes, they allow it - they just censor your ability to say what you want freely. By creating decency laws you can keep people snitching on each other, this just allows an in for exploitation.
Difference? Germany is small and can rationally govern their people. Yet for some reason, it wants to know your private messages.
Stop fighting over petty lines that do not even define you, and if they do - I am sorry the material realm has captured the value of your contentment.
Hamas supporters are not human rights supporters though, that is absolute. Hamas is a terrorist organization - it is currently the hired lot of goons to wage against Israel. Israel however has been so antagonistic and down-right evil enough so that the Palestinians invite an agent of change.
Especially when Hamas was propped up by Israel, even with it being the bigger instigator of the Palestinian provisional governments.
- Israel is at least as dangerous as Hamas.
- Those protesters are not hamas.
- Please argue in good faith.
Sorry but why do they keep using hamas’ triangle symbol if they don’t support hamas?
Employees reported that they were asked to leave their offices in English that was difficult to understand and under threat of violence. People who did not comply were physically attacked
traumatizing random employees, great way to protest /s
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No, 1. Likud and Otzma are. Israel absolutely deserves a better government. 2. I never said that. However there are a lot of protesters at these protests who don’t shy away from putting Hamas in a positive light and push antisemitic narratives. Also there has been many instances where neonazi actors have attended pro-Palestine protests and werent ousted. 3. So it is bad faith when I disagree with you?
Also there has been many instances where neonazi actors have attended pro-Palestine protests and werent ousted.
Please link sources for that statement.
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I will delete this comment within 1 hour if you are not going to:
Accept that the state Israel (or country Y) and the Israeli government (or government Y) are not the same. Please edit that part of your comment concerning that fact.
Please add sources for the following part of your comment: “People are being deported with no charges other than protest itself. There are countless articles detailing this.” Or delete that part of your comment.
Please link the comment you are refering to while stating that TanteRegenbogen supported “Executing children and UN peace workers with their hands tied behind their backs” If you are not able to, delete that part of the comment.
If I already deleted that comment, here it is for more context for people who haven't seen it before it got deleted.
- Those are the current Israeli state so you’re playing with semantics.
- People are being deported with no charges other than protest itself. There are countless articles detailing this.
- It’s bad faith to define any criticism of a genocidal regime as “antisemitism” (or hate speech, as you call it).
Zoom out a little and see what you’re defending:
- “Hate speech” ❌
- Executing children and UN peace workers with their hands tied behind their backs ✅
Those are the current Israeli state so you’re playing with semantics.
The state Israel and the Israeli government are not the same.
Executing children and UN peace workers with their hands tied behind their backs ✅
Please be more specific about what you are referring to. I haven’t seen any commenty of TanteRegenbogen defending that.
Your argument is that a country is at least as dangerous as a terrorist group but if I said Palestine as a nation is as dangerous as the IDF, you’d be up in arms saying I cant make sweeping generalizations about Palestinians. Think about that.
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All those articles leave out the critical details that those protesters are accused of committing crimes. Meanwhile there are a number of German language articles that say that they arent at risk of deportation just because of protesting.
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It is anti-semitic to generalize the entire populace of Israel and be against it’s existence.
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Where did I do that? Hate speech includes anti-Palestinian and anti-Israeli narratives.
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I am not defending that. And you accuse me of arguing in bad faith?
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I support the nuclear annihilation of Palestine (region) so we don’t even have a holy site to fight over. /j
And this is more about me not wanting to be deported back to my own nation
That joke was in pretty bad taste.
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Likud and Otzma are against a two state solution. That doesn’t mean all Israelis are against though. And the international community can put pressure on Israel to enforce a two state solution. Most Germans support a two state solution.
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I delete your comment since your account is 2 hours old and we had to deal with another sock puppet in this thread already. And we need no insinuations of racism here.
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I closed this thread for accounts younger than 10days (sock puppets).
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Israel is against a two state solution.
Please edit your comment in such a way that it doesn’t seem like your opinion was that an country, a nation and a government all are the same. I will delete the comment within 20mins if you won’t do it, becaus this thread tends to be less fact-based than it should be.
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I closed this thread. I mentioned only 2 accounts for which I close it, but since sock puppets now are used here, I will also delete every comment of an account less than 3 days old. Maybe also ban the account.
This isnt a synchronous communications scheme where you can assume the user is there to read your comment within a certain time frame. I see you using these time deadline schemes with several people. Does it ever work?
I had to cool down the discussion and I did so. The quote in my comment is the whole comment I deleted so I didn’t even completly removed it. The other person (not this comment) had way enough time and didn’t care about the deadline while posting in other communities.
Good job getting right wing nutjobs elected liberals.
Fun fact, posting a link to this article got me banned from the Germany subreddit:
welcome to lemmy :)
Lemmy, where I just posted in [email protected] that German police pulled over the bus I was on to demand everyone’s papers after crossing a Schengen border – was just removed by the moderator.
The post was removed because it was a post saying “the gestapo is back” with no backing, and it doesn’t seem to related to privacy. And “germany is no longer in schengen”? Yes it is, i’m not sure what you’re talking about.
Okay, that changes everything and it looks like he/she/they werent telling the full story.
do you happen to have a photo of the incident? i would be curious
i have been ID checked before when travelling from italy to austria by train. As i’m 20-30 year old and was travelling alone, i suspect it was about curbing migration or sth. But they didn’t register it in a database.
I understand your point, but why post it in a privacy sub?
I was going to say that too. Doesn’t seem like the right place to post it.
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There’s exactly one rule in this community, you broke it.
I am seriously baffled… that 2 people would think an unwarranted general demand for ID papers without probable cause and then recording the data in a centralised tracking database is not relevant to privacy. How on earth do you arrive at that?
Is it that you don’t care about being physically tracked yourself, and from there conclude it’s not a privacy issue? Do you have something like Snapchat broadcasting your realtime physical location anyway?
I must say it’s alarming how the basic concepts of privacy has gotten lost on the younger generations to such extent. The modern day global concept of privacy is to a very large extent driven by papers being demanded in Germany in the 1940s. If it were not for 1940s Germany, privacy communities in Lemmy very well might not even exist today.
Getting ID’d when passing a border is not a privacy issue. You are trippin.
Also legally speaking, they cant just track you. What they are doing is just registering your entrance to the country on a central databank.
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How could this possibly be unrelated to privacy?
They were not just looking at IDs to look for Turks (which IIRC is the reason they are doing it)… they were scanning everyone’s ID into a centralised system to generally track people’s movement – even IDs issued by neighboring countries.
Privacy is about control. In this case, the privacy invasion reduces freedom of movement (control over your own travel).
Damn, really? Where’s the post?
I always forget what a cesspool of racism and authoritarianism reddit has become.
I know that there is definitely organized Zionist and organized Russian and other far-right chills on reddit, but it seems they have been quite effective in getting many people to follow them blindly.
Yeah you can really feel the brigading any time you post something even remotely pro-Palestine or anti-Israel over there.
Sounds like an appropriate response.
Abnormal human being’s comment gives you a good idea why this is ban worthy. Pandering to conspiracy/extremist even if unintentional must be avoided to preserve the community.
What conspiracy? This is literally a thing that happened.
The conspiracy is that they are only being deported for protest when they have been arrested for a number of crimes.
I don’t agree with the part about deportation without going through the courts first though.
The shit? No they’re not. Some other people in the same protest committed these crimes; these protesters aren’t accused of any criminal acts.
Maybe not just read articles that promote one narrative while leaving out essential information. The four protesters are accused of multiple things. Sure, they should be put on trial first and if guilty, get their punishment then be deported.
None of the protesters are accused of any particular acts of vandalism or the de-arrest at the university.
Instead, the deportation order cites the suspicion that they took part in a coordinated group action.
O’Brien, one of the Irish citizens, is the only one of the four whose deportation order included a charge – the accusation that he called a police officer a “fascist” – that has been brought before a criminal court in Berlin, where he was acquitted.
Buhlmann explicitly warned that the legal basis for revoking the three EU citizens’ freedom of movement was insufficient — and that deporting them would be unlawful.
To correct myself, it seems that two are accused of a criminal act: Insulting an officer. That’s… uh… The fuck?
Insult is a crime in Germany regardless who you insult. It’s Germany, not the US. You can’t just harass people here, regardless of their status.
It alone wouldnt warrant deportation. However the article is still missing information I find in German language articles.
Also I support the “enforced politeness” but find that the fines are a bit excessive. Should rather be treated like a traffic infraction instead
So just to make something clear here, because this has been hotly debated in Germany, and people have been doing a disservice to both sides, IMO:
Reports from last year suggest that one of the actions they were alleged to have been involved in included breaking into a university building and threatening people with objects that could have been used as potential weapons.
But the deportation orders go further. They cite a broader list of alleged behaviours: chanting slogans such as “Free Gaza” and “From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free”, joining road blockades (a tactic frequently used by climate activists), and calling a police officer a “fascist”. Read closely, the real charge appears to be something more basic: protest itself.
So, the former is usually brought up by people, when arguing this is not a case of just protest, numbers I’ve seen were something like 100k in damages and threatening people with axes used in the break-in. This is usually used to elicit a response of “Oh, okay, they deserve it then.”
Thing is: No matter what they did, they deserve proper legal procedure happening, put in front of a court, and to be considered innocent until proven guilty. The whole deportation rhetoric is being used to create a precedent to suspend the rule of law. It’s also clearly used in bad faith, also targeting people that haven’t had a home outside of Germany in many years, up to decades.
The whole issue of Palestine is very contentious in Germany, as the article points out, and a tool used to create division, not just in society as a whole, but also specifically to create division within the left. My point being: No matter, if you personally think that these people deserve some big punishment, and that the things done were not okay - if you end up supporting this specific way to get there, you are supporting suspension of law, encroaching a new standard of punishment without trial, and the growth of fascism. It really is a “first they came for” situation, don’t ever think that this is implemented by people that won’t ultimately also use it against you and your own interests down the line.
Note that they’re accused of attending a protest where these things (the property damage stuff) happened, not actually doing these things. None of the four protesters face any criminal accusations.
C’mon Germany do better
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