Gender and sex are not the same thing. Gender is an emotion experience, sex is a biological categorization based on an individual’s role in reproduction. Gender and sex needn’t match. Gender can change (mine often does), sex cannot. Just like sex people do not have control over their gender, if someone’s gender changes or doesn’t match their sex it is not because of a decision they made, it is merely an emotion. So be nice to trans people, they’re just people trying to not be uncomfortable living in their own skin.
Mr Rogers is the truest Christian I’ve ever heard of, let alone met. A lot of people are failing to be the people Mr Rogers knew that they could be and that is sad.
That’s so dumb, that of gender being different from sex with the former being changeable and the latter unchanging is the entire premise the transgender philosophy is built on
Thank you for backing me up, I appreciate it. I also thought how dumb that ban was, since their gender not matching their sex seems to be the main struggle of trans people, at least as far as I can understand it as a cis dude. I argued that trans women are women by gender and by identity but not physically/biologically. Obviously someone did not like that and reported me. Worst part is I contacted reddit dozens of times, asked to remove the ban, or at least tell my how my statement was wrong but they simply would not talk to me. Despite using a different account on a different computer with a different browser and also a VPN, they somehow detected me anyway and kept banning my new accounts too. Well … fuck reddit, lemmy is better anyway.
Yeah, that was a dumb ban. I love trans people, have trans friends, and have been “close” with trans people. They are all begrudgingly aware that their biological “sex” parts can’t be changed on a whim, and that even with a sex change surgery, it is still medically impossible to fulfill the opposite roll in reproduction.
I have thought about this at length and it does get messy, though. If we define “male” as someone who can deliver sperm and impregnate a “female”, then what about people who can’t reproduce? Does someone who can no longer produce sperm cease being male? And if not, aside from our “preconceptions”, what then is the actual difference between a biological male that can’t reproduce and a transgender male that has had all of the operations and looks male? I don’t have the answers, hah
Point one: that’s a fair point, but some may argue that due to genetics, current biological transition technology cannot truly change someone’s sex, I’m not smart enough to have an opinion on this
Point 2: i guess what i was trying to say, is people don’t wake up and choose to be a different gender (though they may feel and therefore be one), this is kind of more based on my experience than anything else, so maybe some people do
some may argue that due to genetics, current biological transition technology cannot truly change someone’s sex, I’m not smart enough to have an opinion on this
those people will be transphobes. Maybe if you’re not “smart enough” (in your words) to understand something, you shouldn’t be giving your opinion on it, especially so authoritatively, and instead go educate yourself on it (you can start here)?
is people don’t wake up and choose to be a different gender (though they may feel and therefore be one), this is kind of more based on my experience than anything else, so maybe some people do
it’s nothing to do with “waking up and choosing to be a different gender”, just like transitioning isn’t based on “merely emotions”, both are extremely dismissive.
It seems like you mean well, but I highly recommend listening to people actually living these experiences (in the numerous trans communities on the fediverese would be a good place to start), instead of getting your information from what sounds like terrible and biased sources…
Not that I have any problem referring to trans people as whatever sex or gender that they would like to be referred to, and others shouldn’t either, but I think the distinction between biological sex and gender identity is important at least when speaking from a medical and scientific standpoint.
Are you involved in the care of an individual trans person, or are they participating in your research?
Since you’ve answered no to all of those, and even if you had answered yes, then still no, in almost all cases, the distinction isn’t relevant, and more importantly, is none of your fucking business.
And since I doubt you’ve had your own chromosomal make up tested, or even your hormone levels, you probably couldn’t commit 100% to your own (or anyone else’s) fucking “biological sex” so questioning that of others (or worse, demanding proof) only because they’re trans isn’t only intrusive, perverted, and outright transphobic, it’s also entirely unscientific (the term as well as the concept/construct), and as mentioned above - none of your motherfucking business.
So you can take your generic “I’m not a transphobe but…bIoLoGiCaL sEx” excuse and shove it, and if being called a transphobe bothers you more than being one, perhaps try educating yourself instead of continuing to regurgitate the most commonly used transphobic talking points in existence…
You seem like you want to be mad at something. I have no problem referring to you as whatever pronouns, names, sex, gender, etc. It’s just that we need words to describe chromosomal differences in biology and sex is what we chose to do that. Just in scientific fields. I am not saying that anyone’s personal sex identity is my business, but it is relevant in scientific and medical studies. Those are everybody’s business.
How so? My understanding is sex is measured by if this individual is going to have a kid will they being the impregnator (male) or the impregnatee (female), though i suppose this offers a space for someone who can’t do either, and maybe a hypothetical someone who can do both
My understanding is sex is measured by if this individual is going to have a kid will they being the impregnator (male) or the impregnatee (female),
Before we even go in to how this false dichotomy excludes trans people - you’ve completely erased intersex people.
The bottom line is humans are assigned a sex and gender at birth based almost exclusively on the visible external genitalia, which simply isn’t enough to indicate anything other than what external visible genitalia a person has. Beyond that, 95%+ of people are completely unaware of their chromosomes, hormones, or even internal organs, and whether those “match” the sex and gender they were assigned at birth (like cis men with extremely low testosterone, or cis women with XY chromosomes).
When a trans person takes HRT, they are literally changing their biological chemistry, when they have surgery, they are literally changing their physical characteristics, and having XY or XX chromosomes doesn’t definitively define anything. If a trans man still has a uterus they can and plenty have gotten pregnant, as men, because being pregnant doesn’t invalidate their gender, nor any physical or hormonal changes they might have undergone. Just like not having a uterus doesn’t suddenly revoke womanhood (see cis women having hysterectomies).
Both sex and gender are spectrums, and neither are distributed as neatly and bimodally as cis-heteronormative society (and your fourth grade biology teacher) would have you believe.
Trans people are whatever gender they tell you they are, and just like you wouldn’t ask cis people for their chromosomal make up to confirm their gender, there is no rational reason to do so to trans people before you accept this (outside of transphobia).
Both sex and gender are spectrums, and neither are distributed as neatly and bimodally as cis-heteronormative society (and your fourth grade biology teacher) would have you believe.
No one here is arguing this. The commenter you replied to even acknowledged that his definition wasn’t all-inclusive. The point people are making is that even just knowing whether you were born with a penis, a vagina, or somewhere in-between has its uses, esspecially in a medical context.
Trans people are whatever gender they tell you they are, and just like you wouldn’t ask cis people for their chromosomal make up to confirm their gender, there is no rational reason to do so to trans people before you accept this (outside of transphobia).
Again, you’re arguing against a strawman. Everyone here has agreed with this sentiment. The disagreement is in the specifics of defining, sex not that of gender, and esspecially not the validity of anyone’s gender.
Gender and sex are not the same thing. Gender is an emotion experience, sex is a biological categorization based on an individual’s role in reproduction. Gender and sex needn’t match. Gender can change (mine often does), sex cannot. Just like sex people do not have control over their gender, if someone’s gender changes or doesn’t match their sex it is not because of a decision they made, it is merely an emotion. So be nice to trans people, they’re just people trying to not be uncomfortable living in their own skin.
It’s nice to be nice
words I’ve always lived by
Mr Rogers is the truest Christian I’ve ever heard of, let alone met. A lot of people are failing to be the people Mr Rogers knew that they could be and that is sad.
That statement got me a lifetime ban on reddit, justification: transphobia
That’s so dumb, that of gender being different from sex with the former being changeable and the latter unchanging is the entire premise the transgender philosophy is built on
Thank you for backing me up, I appreciate it. I also thought how dumb that ban was, since their gender not matching their sex seems to be the main struggle of trans people, at least as far as I can understand it as a cis dude. I argued that trans women are women by gender and by identity but not physically/biologically. Obviously someone did not like that and reported me. Worst part is I contacted reddit dozens of times, asked to remove the ban, or at least tell my how my statement was wrong but they simply would not talk to me. Despite using a different account on a different computer with a different browser and also a VPN, they somehow detected me anyway and kept banning my new accounts too. Well … fuck reddit, lemmy is better anyway.
Yeah, that was a dumb ban. I love trans people, have trans friends, and have been “close” with trans people. They are all begrudgingly aware that their biological “sex” parts can’t be changed on a whim, and that even with a sex change surgery, it is still medically impossible to fulfill the opposite roll in reproduction.
I have thought about this at length and it does get messy, though. If we define “male” as someone who can deliver sperm and impregnate a “female”, then what about people who can’t reproduce? Does someone who can no longer produce sperm cease being male? And if not, aside from our “preconceptions”, what then is the actual difference between a biological male that can’t reproduce and a transgender male that has had all of the operations and looks male? I don’t have the answers, hah
I’m sorry, what do you think medical transitioning is? People literally changing their sex.
wut?
that’s enough
Point one: that’s a fair point, but some may argue that due to genetics, current biological transition technology cannot truly change someone’s sex, I’m not smart enough to have an opinion on this
Point 2: i guess what i was trying to say, is people don’t wake up and choose to be a different gender (though they may feel and therefore be one), this is kind of more based on my experience than anything else, so maybe some people do
Point 3: yeah
those people will be transphobes. Maybe if you’re not “smart enough” (in your words) to understand something, you shouldn’t be giving your opinion on it, especially so authoritatively, and instead go educate yourself on it (you can start here)?
it’s nothing to do with “waking up and choosing to be a different gender”, just like transitioning isn’t based on “merely emotions”, both are extremely dismissive.
It seems like you mean well, but I highly recommend listening to people actually living these experiences (in the numerous trans communities on the fediverese would be a good place to start), instead of getting your information from what sounds like terrible and biased sources…
Not that I have any problem referring to trans people as whatever sex or gender that they would like to be referred to, and others shouldn’t either, but I think the distinction between biological sex and gender identity is important at least when speaking from a medical and scientific standpoint.
Oh, you think that, do you??
Are you a medical professional or a scientist?
Are you involved in the care of an individual trans person, or are they participating in your research?
Since you’ve answered no to all of those, and even if you had answered yes, then still no, in almost all cases, the distinction isn’t relevant, and more importantly, is none of your fucking business.
And since I doubt you’ve had your own chromosomal make up tested, or even your hormone levels, you probably couldn’t commit 100% to your own (or anyone else’s) fucking “biological sex” so questioning that of others (or worse, demanding proof) only because they’re trans isn’t only intrusive, perverted, and outright transphobic, it’s also entirely unscientific (the term as well as the concept/construct), and as mentioned above - none of your motherfucking business.
So you can take your generic “I’m not a transphobe but…bIoLoGiCaL sEx” excuse and shove it, and if being called a transphobe bothers you more than being one, perhaps try educating yourself instead of continuing to regurgitate the most commonly used transphobic talking points in existence…
You seem like you want to be mad at something. I have no problem referring to you as whatever pronouns, names, sex, gender, etc. It’s just that we need words to describe chromosomal differences in biology and sex is what we chose to do that. Just in scientific fields. I am not saying that anyone’s personal sex identity is my business, but it is relevant in scientific and medical studies. Those are everybody’s business.
Though I would say that sex is as much of a social construct as gender is.
How so? My understanding is sex is measured by if this individual is going to have a kid will they being the impregnator (male) or the impregnatee (female), though i suppose this offers a space for someone who can’t do either, and maybe a hypothetical someone who can do both
Before we even go in to how this false dichotomy excludes trans people - you’ve completely erased intersex people.
The bottom line is humans are assigned a sex and gender at birth based almost exclusively on the visible external genitalia, which simply isn’t enough to indicate anything other than what external visible genitalia a person has. Beyond that, 95%+ of people are completely unaware of their chromosomes, hormones, or even internal organs, and whether those “match” the sex and gender they were assigned at birth (like cis men with extremely low testosterone, or cis women with XY chromosomes).
When a trans person takes HRT, they are literally changing their biological chemistry, when they have surgery, they are literally changing their physical characteristics, and having XY or XX chromosomes doesn’t definitively define anything. If a trans man still has a uterus they can and plenty have gotten pregnant, as men, because being pregnant doesn’t invalidate their gender, nor any physical or hormonal changes they might have undergone. Just like not having a uterus doesn’t suddenly revoke womanhood (see cis women having hysterectomies).
Both sex and gender are spectrums, and neither are distributed as neatly and bimodally as cis-heteronormative society (and your fourth grade biology teacher) would have you believe.
Trans people are whatever gender they tell you they are, and just like you wouldn’t ask cis people for their chromosomal make up to confirm their gender, there is no rational reason to do so to trans people before you accept this (outside of transphobia).
No one here is arguing this. The commenter you replied to even acknowledged that his definition wasn’t all-inclusive. The point people are making is that even just knowing whether you were born with a penis, a vagina, or somewhere in-between has its uses, esspecially in a medical context.
Again, you’re arguing against a strawman. Everyone here has agreed with this sentiment. The disagreement is in the specifics of defining, sex not that of gender, and esspecially not the validity of anyone’s gender.
This blog post outlines it better than I can - I like it because it includes links to a variety of primary sources.
Nah