They did try to win. They just didn’t try to win the way YOU wanted them to. Strategically speaking, going for centrists was the right move, even if you were a progressive candidate. They assumed that they already had the left in the bag, and we’re trying to target independent and centrist votes. Nobody would have thought that the left would just…let Trump win because of some bullshit purity politics. But hey, now that the left has let a fascist into power, we won’t have to worry about voting anymore. Super smart power move progressives. A+. You played yourselves.
Strategically speaking, going for centrists was the right move, even if you were a progressive candidate.
That’s why they won in 2016 and 2024, right?
Stupid ass shit like what you just said is the kind of shit that lost to fascism twice now and look at you, still saying it! Keep going, I’m sure losing a third time will be great
now that the left has let a fascist into power
Liberals love blaming leftists when shit goes bad even when it’s their garbage ideas that got us here. Fuck right off
Lol okay. You make it sound like running a campaign is so easy. Maybe you should run the next one.
If you go with a full progressive or overtly leftist campaign you will also lose. You will gain votes from the “purity politics” left from people like you but you will lose the support of so much of the centrist/independent block.
43% of the US population identifies as independent. 27% identifies as Democrat. We don’t have a large enough voting base to win by ourselves without independent/centrist votes. If you abandon them as well, we also lose. Conservatives can always count on their base to vote for whoever… apparently we’ve learned that we can’t do that with progressives. It’s apparently our way or we sink the whole fucking boat with everyone in it. We apparently only vote for the PERFECT candidate, or we just won’t vote at all…or vote 3rd party.
You make it sound like running a campaign is so easy.
It’s not, at all. Spotting a repeated mistake IS pretty easy, though
you will lose the support of so much of the centrist/independent block
Prove it. Leftist ideas are liked by the majority of the country when asked without labels, so you’re talking out your ass.
43% of the US population identifies as independent
A lot of those are leftists who don’t associate with the DNC. I would know, I’m a member of a group of them who all get talk about politics. I’m literally a member of the group you’re claiming wouldn’t vote for a more left candidate and I’ll tell you: the majority of us would
Conservatives can always count on their base to vote for whoever… apparently we’ve learned that we can’t do that with progressives
Progressives aren’t the Democratic base, but nice try shifting the blame. Democrats are right-wing and are losing votes because of it. Look at 2024 in CA and see the millions of votes lost because they went centrist
We apparently only vote for the PERFECT candidate, or we just won’t vote at all
Either troll or so stupid you’re not worth engaging further on, just holy shit what a stupid reduction
The last 4 Democratic Presidents have ALL been just barely left of center - Biden, Obama, Clinton, and Carter. The last true progressive we tried to run back was in '72 against Nixon and we lost so incredibly badly that people backed FAR away from trying to run a progressive candidate…go look at the results, they’re pretty insane.
Amazing how one election 50 years ago is enough to conclude that progressives can never win elections ever, but endlessly running conservative Democrats and eating shit just means you need to tack harder right. Not to mention that Obama ran considerably to the left of any other recent democrat candidate and cleaned up.
That’s not what I said. I said that from a strategy standpoint, the support was visibly not there, hence why Democrats have run a primarily centrist/left-leaning platform for decades. It looks much more progressive now thanks to the efforts of people like Bernie and AOC, but it just wasn’t there for the last 50 or so years…and I say that as a progressive. I would love to see a progressive candidate, but the reality and the data essentially stated that platforming a progressive and running a progressive campaign is statistically a losing strategy. You can get your underwear in twist and get as snippy as you want, but your 2-bit hottake doesn’t amount shit compared to the literal decades of experience that these campaign managers have.
There’s historical precedent that supports my argument, from voter sentiment and what brings in large campaign donors, to how to try and game the electoral college. So downvote me all you want, ad hominem attack me all you want. Just because you dont like my argument doesn’t mean it’s wrong. Sorry to burst your bubble.
Lastly, Obama was absolutely a centrist. He was barely left of dead center. The most progressive thing about him was that he was black. He expanded our military see drone strikes. He passed ACA which further supported private healthcare, he did nothing for marijuana rescheduling. Hell, there were more deportations under Obama than Trump. There was nothing progressive about that man.
If you go with a full progressive or overtly leftist campaign you will also lose.
The last time Democrats tried, they won a super majority.
centrist/independent
Notice how you’ve just assumed based on nothing that independents are all “centrists” who don’t vote Democrats because they’re too progressive. Which is wrong.
We apparently only vote for the PERFECT candidate
People don’t want to vote for people who see “actively genocidal” as “not perfect”
Yeah mate…back in 1932. I’m sure nothing’s really changed since then. And if you think we’ve had a “progressive” candidate since then… I’d LOVE to hear this hot take.
He was barely center-left. None of his actual policies were progressive. He had a more progressive tone in his campaign, but none of his actual campaign promises could be construed as “progressive”. The ACA built on private insurance, not Medicare for all; his military policy built a strong global military posture; hell…he even spoke plenty about “working across the aisle”.
The only progressive thing about Obama was the fact that he was a black candidate. He was able to speak like a progressive, but still nab a massive amount of independent, and his policies reflected that.
Edit to your edit: the last overtly “Progressive” candidate was George McGovern in '72, but he lost to Nixon in a landslide. You act as if merely having a “progressive” candidate is the secret sauce to winning the election. I’m desperately trying to tell you that it’s a hell of a lot more complicated than that.
He still ran faaaaaar to the left of any recent Democratic campaign, which still completely torpedoes your assertion that the current Democrats aren’t running right enough to win elections.
He was able to speak like a progressive, but still nab a massive amount of independent, and his policies reflected that.
Oh please, there is not some huge group of independents who voted for Obama because they saw him as a conservative centrist who then went on to not vote for Clinton, Biden, or Harris because they were too left wing. That isn’t a thing.
the last overtly “Progressive” candidate was George McGovern in '72
Oh so only 50 years then! Still means your claim that progressive candidates can’t win us totally baseless.
You act as if merely having a “progressive” candidate is the secret sauce to winning the election.
No, I am just rejecting your baseless assertion that progressive candidates can never win.
I’m desperately trying to tell you that it’s a hell of a lot more complicated than that.
Other around: you’re trying to argue that it’s as simple as “independents are in the middle of Democrats and Republicans” and I’m telling it’s a lot more complicated then that
So, since they did not in fact “have the left in the bag,” “going for centrists” was not, in fact, “strategically speaking the right move.” Even by your own dumbass reasoning you’re wrong.
This excuse is rolled out every time your favorite “centrists” eat shit, which is most of the time. The underlying logic that moving right is the way to win is above critique, no matter how many times it’s tried and failed. The Democratic party and their candidates and campaigns are all of course above critique, they can never fail, they can only be failed. You can only ever punch down and tell voters to change their behavior to accommodate the candidate’s positions, and never tell the candidate they should accommodate their constituents. The whole concept of democracy is meaningless at that point, just a popularity contest for which face will do the same awful shit, a game for rich sociopaths to fight over prestige and position, rather than a way for common people to have any sort of influence whatsoever over policy.
The left warned them loudly and clearly and they ignored us, as they always do. If course, we weren’t the entire reason they lost, although I wish we were, because if we have the power and will to deny them wins, then they have no choice but to give into our demands or fade into irrelevance. Exercising this power is the only possible way to make them listen, or, if they won’t listen, it’s conveniently also the way to go about creating a new party that will.
27% of the US voting base is Democrat. 43% is centrist.
Do you lean hard to progressive politics and abandon independents or do you try and capture centrists and hope that your voting base understands that the opponent is a literal fascist?
If we run a full progressive candidate we will also for sure lose. But at least we’ll all feel warm and fuzzy inside that we picked a wonderful candidate. It’s a knife edge, if we want to only pander to our base, we will for sure lose support of many centrists.
They did try to win. They just didn’t try to win the way YOU wanted them to. Strategically speaking, going for centrists was the right move, even if you were a progressive candidate. They assumed that they already had the left in the bag, and we’re trying to target independent and centrist votes. Nobody would have thought that the left would just…let Trump win because of some bullshit purity politics. But hey, now that the left has let a fascist into power, we won’t have to worry about voting anymore. Super smart power move progressives. A+. You played yourselves.
That’s why they won in 2016 and 2024, right?
Stupid ass shit like what you just said is the kind of shit that lost to fascism twice now and look at you, still saying it! Keep going, I’m sure losing a third time will be great
Liberals love blaming leftists when shit goes bad even when it’s their garbage ideas that got us here. Fuck right off
Lol okay. You make it sound like running a campaign is so easy. Maybe you should run the next one.
If you go with a full progressive or overtly leftist campaign you will also lose. You will gain votes from the “purity politics” left from people like you but you will lose the support of so much of the centrist/independent block.
43% of the US population identifies as independent. 27% identifies as Democrat. We don’t have a large enough voting base to win by ourselves without independent/centrist votes. If you abandon them as well, we also lose. Conservatives can always count on their base to vote for whoever… apparently we’ve learned that we can’t do that with progressives. It’s apparently our way or we sink the whole fucking boat with everyone in it. We apparently only vote for the PERFECT candidate, or we just won’t vote at all…or vote 3rd party.
It’s not, at all. Spotting a repeated mistake IS pretty easy, though
Prove it. Leftist ideas are liked by the majority of the country when asked without labels, so you’re talking out your ass.
A lot of those are leftists who don’t associate with the DNC. I would know, I’m a member of a group of them who all get talk about politics. I’m literally a member of the group you’re claiming wouldn’t vote for a more left candidate and I’ll tell you: the majority of us would
Progressives aren’t the Democratic base, but nice try shifting the blame. Democrats are right-wing and are losing votes because of it. Look at 2024 in CA and see the millions of votes lost because they went centrist
Either troll or so stupid you’re not worth engaging further on, just holy shit what a stupid reduction
The last 4 Democratic Presidents have ALL been just barely left of center - Biden, Obama, Clinton, and Carter. The last true progressive we tried to run back was in '72 against Nixon and we lost so incredibly badly that people backed FAR away from trying to run a progressive candidate…go look at the results, they’re pretty insane.
Amazing how one election 50 years ago is enough to conclude that progressives can never win elections ever, but endlessly running conservative Democrats and eating shit just means you need to tack harder right. Not to mention that Obama ran considerably to the left of any other recent democrat candidate and cleaned up.
That’s not what I said. I said that from a strategy standpoint, the support was visibly not there, hence why Democrats have run a primarily centrist/left-leaning platform for decades. It looks much more progressive now thanks to the efforts of people like Bernie and AOC, but it just wasn’t there for the last 50 or so years…and I say that as a progressive. I would love to see a progressive candidate, but the reality and the data essentially stated that platforming a progressive and running a progressive campaign is statistically a losing strategy. You can get your underwear in twist and get as snippy as you want, but your 2-bit hottake doesn’t amount shit compared to the literal decades of experience that these campaign managers have.
There’s historical precedent that supports my argument, from voter sentiment and what brings in large campaign donors, to how to try and game the electoral college. So downvote me all you want, ad hominem attack me all you want. Just because you dont like my argument doesn’t mean it’s wrong. Sorry to burst your bubble.
Lastly, Obama was absolutely a centrist. He was barely left of dead center. The most progressive thing about him was that he was black. He expanded our military see drone strikes. He passed ACA which further supported private healthcare, he did nothing for marijuana rescheduling. Hell, there were more deportations under Obama than Trump. There was nothing progressive about that man.
The last time Democrats tried, they won a super majority.
Notice how you’ve just assumed based on nothing that independents are all “centrists” who don’t vote Democrats because they’re too progressive. Which is wrong.
People don’t want to vote for people who see “actively genocidal” as “not perfect”
Yeah mate…back in 1932. I’m sure nothing’s really changed since then. And if you think we’ve had a “progressive” candidate since then… I’d LOVE to hear this hot take.
I was talking about Obama, who ran a progressive campaign.
Also, if you believe that Democrats haven’t run a progressive campaign in 90 years, you have ZERO leg to stand on saying it would lose.
He was barely center-left. None of his actual policies were progressive. He had a more progressive tone in his campaign, but none of his actual campaign promises could be construed as “progressive”. The ACA built on private insurance, not Medicare for all; his military policy built a strong global military posture; hell…he even spoke plenty about “working across the aisle”.
The only progressive thing about Obama was the fact that he was a black candidate. He was able to speak like a progressive, but still nab a massive amount of independent, and his policies reflected that.
Edit to your edit: the last overtly “Progressive” candidate was George McGovern in '72, but he lost to Nixon in a landslide. You act as if merely having a “progressive” candidate is the secret sauce to winning the election. I’m desperately trying to tell you that it’s a hell of a lot more complicated than that.
He still ran faaaaaar to the left of any recent Democratic campaign, which still completely torpedoes your assertion that the current Democrats aren’t running right enough to win elections.
Oh please, there is not some huge group of independents who voted for Obama because they saw him as a conservative centrist who then went on to not vote for Clinton, Biden, or Harris because they were too left wing. That isn’t a thing.
Oh so only 50 years then! Still means your claim that progressive candidates can’t win us totally baseless.
No, I am just rejecting your baseless assertion that progressive candidates can never win.
Other around: you’re trying to argue that it’s as simple as “independents are in the middle of Democrats and Republicans” and I’m telling it’s a lot more complicated then that
So, since they did not in fact “have the left in the bag,” “going for centrists” was not, in fact, “strategically speaking the right move.” Even by your own dumbass reasoning you’re wrong.
This excuse is rolled out every time your favorite “centrists” eat shit, which is most of the time. The underlying logic that moving right is the way to win is above critique, no matter how many times it’s tried and failed. The Democratic party and their candidates and campaigns are all of course above critique, they can never fail, they can only be failed. You can only ever punch down and tell voters to change their behavior to accommodate the candidate’s positions, and never tell the candidate they should accommodate their constituents. The whole concept of democracy is meaningless at that point, just a popularity contest for which face will do the same awful shit, a game for rich sociopaths to fight over prestige and position, rather than a way for common people to have any sort of influence whatsoever over policy.
The left warned them loudly and clearly and they ignored us, as they always do. If course, we weren’t the entire reason they lost, although I wish we were, because if we have the power and will to deny them wins, then they have no choice but to give into our demands or fade into irrelevance. Exercising this power is the only possible way to make them listen, or, if they won’t listen, it’s conveniently also the way to go about creating a new party that will.
“our strategy was correct, it’s reality that was wrong.”
27% of the US voting base is Democrat. 43% is centrist.
Do you lean hard to progressive politics and abandon independents or do you try and capture centrists and hope that your voting base understands that the opponent is a literal fascist?
You. Lost.
Your strategy objectively was wrong.
Didn’t really answer the question…but okay.
Hindsight is 20/20.
If we run a full progressive candidate we will also for sure lose. But at least we’ll all feel warm and fuzzy inside that we picked a wonderful candidate. It’s a knife edge, if we want to only pander to our base, we will for sure lose support of many centrists.
You were told this before the election, repeatedly. You can invoke hindsight
The last time the Democrats tried, they won a super majority
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