Imagine instead of complete surrender the confederacy retreated and held Texas, and China was selling them advanced weaponry. That’s what this is
Well, not quite. It’s more akin to if the union was pushed back and was limited to new-england.
The PRC is the confederate equivalent, as they weren’t the original legal government unlike Taiwan, which legally is the heir of the ROC.
Also one of these states is an authoritarian piece of shit, and it’s definitely not Taiwan.
The PRC is the confederate equivalent, as they weren’t the original legal government unlike Taiwan, which legally is the heir of the ROC.
Going by paper legality argument, ROC is also illegal because it wrested power from Qing. Which conquered China from Ming, which toppled Yuan, and going fast forward to Han, Qing, Zhao and Shang, neither of them also risen peacefully.
Ahhh, Chinese history. Breaking every 400-500 years into total chaos, and someone new fixes it so the cycle repeated.
Does it looks like that to you? I would say they have unparallelled cultural and civilisational continuity rarily seen in any other place. And feudal empires falling is not the gotcha you think it is, especially when you look at the absolute clusterfuck in Europe (or many other places too).
Also nice deflection.
You made your point dating to the shang, and I dont disagree. Even more, you’re right, feudal empires falling isn’t a gotcha.
So what about a modern state being violently overthrown? Or is this different because one violent, illegiment warlord championed “the people”, and proceeded to starve 200* million of them after taking power?
Which one of these two states still maintains democratic or republican ideals for the people, a reminder that real Legitimacy lay with the people.
Sorry. Just a measley 50 million people mb. Still the worst famine in history. And 100% preventable.
You made your point dating to the shang, and I dont disagree.
Well, as i read about the history of China, previous entity of Xia apparently didn’t conquered anyone and even if they did, we don’t know, written history of China start from the late Shang period.
About the rest Tankiedesantski answered you about the “republican ideas” of ROC, i can only add that even if you deflect yet again to “real Legitimacy lay with the people” there is nothing more really legitimate by the people than popular revolution which led to the state being supported by 90% of population.
This is like if the Confederacy retreated to Catalina Island, massacred everyone there, and continued calling itself the rightful government of the entire continent afterward.
This is not like that. The ROC government did not “massacre everyone there.” It did call itself the rightful government of the entire China for several decades, but it has since then moved on.
It’s constitution has not even been amended to not include Mongolia, let alone mainland China.
And the KMT did do a number on the indigenous Formosan population.
To say nothing of the 40 years White Terror
Man, these days you know a hexbear without even looking at the user.
I mean this is complete baloney! You are also using the comparison to establish some kind of “evil slavers vs democracy” narrative that wasn’t in place at all in China during the warlord era. They were all equally horrid.
This is, at best, akin to a war between all states in the US after the Boston Tea Party and a communist state, let’s just pick Arizona, slowly winning the wars and forcing the remaining faction onto Hawaii. Then the socialist party forced anyone who could read, more or less, to work themselves to death in a field in the name of communism. Glory to the people!!!
jesus christ read at least one book about the history of the conflict you’re describing before you confidently spout nonsense.
I agree my characterisation is far off the mark. But the poster I responded to wasn’t even in the same galaxy, so I still considered it an improvement.
Also, I’m not Jesus Christ 🤪
Do they make redditors in a factory or something
No, they make Patrick.
Youve gotta be shitting me
So you acknowledge the fact that you don’t know shit about the topic you’re spouting off on but you still just assume you know better??
They did not say that they don’t know shit about the topic, not even close. They simply said their characterization is far off the marks. That means that their understanding of the conflict is far from perfect, but they absolutely do know shit about it.
They didn’t say they were wrong
They just said they were far off the mark
That means their understanding is far from perfect
They absolutely do know their shit
far from perfect can still be good.
I agree. People should take how the Chinese government and the US government treat their people into consideration.
So are we gonna talk about how USA has the highest incarceration rate in the world? Are we going to talk about income equality in USA vs China? Are we going to talk about the Concentration camps for refugee children on the USA border? (If you are going to bring up Xinjiang I’m going to need some photographic evidence beyond vibes and zenz doing bad statistical analysis)
What does incarceration rate have to do with how good the country is? Do you really believe that the income is more equal in China? If you are going to talk about the “concentration camps” on the USA border I’m going to need photo evidence too. Here is a photo of the camp in Xinjiang:
::: spoiler
:::No, this photo is not fake.
What does incarceration rate have to do with how good the country is?
not “how good it is” “How it treats its people” America locks up its people way more (531/100k) than other China (119/100k). Is imprisoning people treating them well?
Kids in cages. There’s some photo’s there and I think you’ll probably respect WaPo as a source.
removed externally hosted image
You can try again but I’m gonna guess that it is just a picture of a building or some prisoners with no context on how many people are there or why they are there.
I apologize for saying “how good it is.” I was in a rush and couldn’t think of a better phrase.
I just read through the article from the Washington Post you linked. That really is bad and I believe that the Trump government should not have treated the (although illegal) immigrants. The grim appearance of that facility really isn’t something that the immigrants should have faced when they set foot on the US. However, compare that to the situation in Xinjiang. Here is an opinion post from the Washington Post. What China is doing to its Uyghurs is genocide. Not that it justifies anything that the US have done to its immigrants, but in comparison what the US is doing seem pretty mild.
Here is an opinion post from the Washington Post.
that’s not news that is an opinion piece that references Zenz who is a liar and Nazi sympathiser.
The UN has done a fact finding Mission and they said there is no evidence of a Uyghur Genocide. It didn’t happen.
Yes there are Vocational schools in Xinjiang but that is to teach people trades to lift themselves out of poverty. The only “culture” being erased is religious extremist terrorism that snuck in through Afghanistan when USA pushed the Taliban out of Afghanistan. Yes there was a rapid increase in birth control measures in Xinjiang but that is what happens when women are given education, economic self determination, and access to proper medical care. They get a IUD so they can focus on living their lives the way they want to instead of being slaves to men who use them as domestic servants and baby incubators.
Zenz based his entire “genocide” theory off statistics and bad math because he is involved in the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation. It is an organization built to spread hate against communism. They hate Communism because the USSR killed 7/10 nazis that died in WW2. The large majority of “Victims of Communism” were Nazis and the people memorializing them are nazis too.
No offence but your lack of media literacy is showing…
You understand that using WaPo as a source for American wrong doings is not the same as using WaPo as a source for wrong doings it’s geopolitical rival. You’d need a Chinese outlet admitting to their faults for it to be equivalent…
Nonetheless I clicked on your link:
The disclosure comes in an investigative report from the Associated Press and a new research report by scholar Adrian Zenz for the Jamestown Foundation.
Literally the second paragraph…
Is that a bad thing? In your hypothetical situation, Chinese people should be happy about their government selling weaponry to Texas, and the Americans should not support their sale of weaponry. To compare this to the real world scenario, Chinese people should feel angry about this and Americans should feel good. I don’t really get the point you’re trying to convey with your analogy.
Not everyone is a chauvinistic shithead
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Nobody in SEA likes Taiwan. It doesn’t help that Taiwan has two naval bases in the South China Sea and always sides with the PRC against the rest of SEA over the SCS, mostly using the justification of “acktually the SCS is part of Chinese naval waters and we’re officially called the Republic of China, so this is Taiwanese naval waters btw since we’re officially called the Republic of China.”
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By design
Money should go towards the poor and not the capitalist war machine.
“Think of how many jobs building an aircraft carrier provides.” -An actual dog brained take, said to me IRL
I hate to quote fucking Eisenhower but even broken clocks etc etc…
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. The cost of one modern heavy bomber is this: a modern brick school in more than 30 cities. It is two electric power plants, each serving a town of 60,000 population. It is two fine, fully equipped hospitals. It is some fifty miles of concrete pavement. We pay for a single fighter with a half-million bushels of wheat. We pay for a single destroyer with new homes that could have housed more than 8,000 people. . . . This is not a way of life at all, in any true sense. Under the cloud of threatening war, it is humanity hanging from a cross of iron.
Even he was warning us about the MIC, and now people say “what about those employed making bombers? Surely that’s the only job they’re capable of! What else would they do?”
I’ve heard similar takes from those drooling boomers also. Think about all the jobs making missiles for war create! Not as many as you’d think old boomer guy.
the MiC is no joke the only properly funded welfare program in the country. it’s just welfare for consultants and PMC instead of like you know, people who need the money.
So… a couple of tomahawk missiles and a container of uniforms. Taiwan secured.
If that… The fees for initiating a sale might eat all that
Perhaps a couple hammers and toilet seats too!
I got into an argument with a guy on Reddit because he kept insisting that Taiwan was a sovereign nation and I kept telling him that Taiwan does not view Taiwan as a sovereign nation. At one point he asked me if we sold weapons to China and when I said definitionally yes he lost his shit.
Taiwan does not view itself as a soverign nation, but for most practical purposes it is one. Also, I don’t think “definitionally” is a word.
Edit: Apparently “definitionally” is a word. I stand corrected.
Taiwan does not view itself as a soverign nation, but for most practical purposes it is one.
Being a sovereign nation is when you don’t have a seat in the UN and most sovereign nations refuse to recognize you as an independent nation.
Being a sovereign nation is when you don’t have a seat in the UN and most sovereign nations refuse to recognize you as an independent nation.
I really don’t think this is the view people on the left should hold. Someone could say the same thing about many nations or groups that don’t have a seat in the UN and aren’t recognised but are still supported by communists and anarchists.
What is a “sovereign nation”?
Sovereignty as a concept in international relations stems from the Treaty of Westphalia, in that each nation has an absolute say within its own borders and that said borders are inviolable.
In which case Ukraine was not sovereign after it was overthrown by America’s Nazi coup.
De facto, a polity that has a distinct administration which dictates policy within and maintains its own borders.
pretty sure the red light district in my town fits that definition.
Unless you get like seriously scientific about it a sovereign nation is basically vibes based
A June 2013 poll conducted by DPP showed an overwhelming 77.6% consider themselves as Taiwanese.[140] On the independence-unification issue, the survey found that 25.9 percent said they support unification, 59 percent support independence, and 10.3 percent prefer the “status quo.” When asked whether Taiwan and China are parts of one country, the party said the survey found 78.4 percent disagree, while 15 percent agreed. As for whether Taiwan and China are two districts in one country, 70.6 percent disagree, while 22.8 percent agree
Taiwan #1
70% of US adults believe in angels, but that doesn’t make it true. No countries with any actual amount of power on the global stage recognize the ROC (see the US’ One China Policy), which means that regardless of whatever views people claim to have when surveyed, Taiwan is de facto part of the PRC.
Taiwan is not a part of the PRC, de facto or de jure. Say that Taiwan is a part of China all you want, but it never has been a part of the PRC.
The German Democratic Republic was never part of the Federal Republic of Germany either. Until it was.
What a completely irrelevant exercise in pedantry.
The truth, like it or not, is that PRC has never, ever seized control of Taiwan. Hopefully it never does. This is not pedantry.
Please cite the principle of international law which requires the present day iteration of a state’s government to have had past administration of a breakaway territory in order to assert a claim of ownership over said territory.
Please also cite any supporting state practice and opinio juris.
de facto huh. What does that mean in practice?
Taiwan is completely economically dependent on the Mainland and is recognized by an ever shrinking pool of nations?
How can they possibly be Taiwanese if they don’t speak any of the Formosan languages?
How can Americans possibly be Americans if they don’t speak American?
Exactly. Death to America!
Bring it loser.
I agree with your sentiment, but we should refrain from using these emotionally charged words. We must remain polite
so that people reading this thread will get a bad impression of Hexbear.
Where do they live again?
Chinese Taipei of course, comrade.
Is that what the majority of people who live there would say?
Only when they want to participate in the Olympics
No, absolutely not.
The DPP (pro-Independence party) polling seems to differ a bit from National Chengchi University’s yearly poll where “maintain status quo indefinitely/decide later” were the two most popular selections.
maintain status quo indefinitely/decide later
me deciding what I’m going to do today
I can’t WAIT for Taiwan to turn into the next Ukraine 😍! The final victory of liberal democracy over the global 99% is imminent!
lemmitors: “if you’re not anti-MIC at 15 you have no heart, but if you’re not pro-MIC at 25 you have no brain”
Interesting paraphrase of the famous Churchill nonsense, which should give some of so called “leftists” here a pause, but alas, they only press the down arrow.
Lockheed left
Lockheed left
War crimes with pink washed LGBT characteristics.
Lol I remember in 2020 Taiwan bought 4 MQ-9 Reaper drones for $600 million (money up front of course, they will be actually delivered in 2025 - will they even still be around at that time?). Then, when Russia shot down (or better “pissed down”) another MQ-9 drone over the Black sea, which Western news decried as pricey as 30 million…
Some Taiwanese did some quic maffs then… to discover… Lmao US friends get US friends prices I guess
Alright folks, time to get into the Taiwan flag business 📈 . I have a feeling the market is about to grow, anyone invested in Ukraine flags still is a fool! 📉
Just make sure you sell before the US opens its TSMC plant and drops Taiwan like a hot rock.
I still say that Taiwan has two uses that struggle to coexist, manufacturing and military. Once the manufacturing one becomes defunct, what is left is its military use.
Wasnt there a us senator that tried to start a war in china presicley because she had a lot of intel stock?
US also nearly started a war with Iran over a fucking pistachios (not solely, but it was a factor)
Brinkmanship
