cross-posted from: https://lemmy.zip/post/794993
Archived version: https://archive.ph/YHzBc
Archived version: https://web.archive.org/web/20230728005938/https://www.reuters.com/world/us-intelligence-report-says-china-likely-supplying-tech-russian-military-2023-07-27/
Was this not a given? I remember something about weird Chinese military Supply train routes in the early months of the war
Yes but my moron friend from college is convinced that China isn’t helping Russia at all and that Ukraine is full of Nazis and the west is the real enemy
So no? It’s not a given unless you have a functioning brain
He probably believes socialism CAN work and ignores all the previous failed attempts.
Socialism can work, Cuba has better life expectancy and more rights for women and lgbtq people than the US. Vietnam, Laos, and China all are moving forward gradually toward complete worker ownership of the means of production. The dprk has survived a 70 year siege from the global hegemon after it destroyed all their infrastructure and killed 20 percent of its civilian population.
So many people defending socialism and communism. Thinking “we can make it work” and spouting off statistics that they read somewhere and not drawing the correlation of left wing and communism/socialism. 2 points to make here:
History is written by those who have hanged. This means the information that makes it out of the communist countries is curated to sound better than it is. The statistics are lies. The politicians are corrupt and will do anything to secure their power and will not stop at eliminating their opposition and vocal people. This is happening in the US. Recent US political news sounds vaguely familiar. Just like the history books in the US fails to delve into the REAL history of Republicans and Democrats and who did what. The left controls the education system and now we have a whole generation that believe the lies they have been told. Lies that are either blatant or through omission. All anybody has to do is real research and they will find the truth is not what they were taught. You can’t see the forest from the trees. The ones claiming that “we can make it work” and buying into the lies, can’t see the crap happening before their very eyes. They have been conditioned to believe that the good guys are winning. I am not here to take sides of right vs left. I am just saying what I see.
Oh okay you’re a conspiratorial CHUD, got it.
Anti-communist “leftists” and liberals take note that these are your allies.
“Dont believe statistics” lol, statistics lie, and they lie much less than whatever anecdotes and rhetoric they have you huffing.
Yeah I have to stay off of here. Maoist lemmygrad tankies give me diarrhea.
I know the implication here is that “maoist lemmygrad tankies” are so gross they give you diarrhea but it really comes off as “I get stress diarrhia reading left wing content online” which isn’t very flattering.
Except I am anarcho-syndicalist and aggressively socially left-wing. But I will never understand anyone that holds China or Russia in anything approaching high regard.
Edit: And, no. My comment didn’t come across as that. You obviously just wanted to read it as such.Except I am anarcho-syndicalist and aggressively socially left-wing
If youre still specifying social and economic policy as seperate in this context than you’ve still got a lot more reading and political development to do as a leftist.
But I will never understand anyone that holds China or Russia in anything approaching high regard.
The soviet union defeated the Nazis, and China is defeating the US primarily through peaceful means Both massively improved quality of life and political rights. If those aren’t things to be conditionally admirable about as a leftist than you seem a very strange leftist.
Edit: And, no. My comment didn’t come across as that. You obviously just wanted to read it as such.
Please explain how “reading socialist comments gives me diarrhia” should be taken.
Well, you’re blatantly wrong about political freedom in China (seriously? LOL). Also, the Soviet Union alone didn’t defeat the Nazis so fuck off with your tankie revisionist history. You seriously have no clue what you’re talking about.
Furthermore, because you’ve outed yourself as a tankie, this conversation is over. I will not engage with the likes of you, a pseudointellectual.Well, you’re blatantly wrong about political freedom in China
Oh, were they better under the KMT or the colonial Japanese? Gotta say bud, your coming off as not very historically literate.
Also, the Soviet Union alone didn’t defeat the Nazis so fuck off with your tankie revisionist history.
Didn’t say they did. They just spearheaded it, being responsible for 80 percent of german casualties, and losing 26 million people for their troubles. Britain or the US wouldn’t have been able to defeat the nazis by themselves. Continental Europe would still be the third reich without those dastardly tankies.
Furthermore, because you’ve outed yourself as a tankie, this conversation is over. I will not engage with the likes of you, a pseudointellectual.
From the towering intellect that thought the KMT or the colonial Japanese provided more rights than the PRC.
Also “outed myself”? Really? That sure implies revealing deception, and I’ve been nothing but open and honest about my views.
That’s not my hill to die on, but what exactly about authoritarian ethno states scratching each other’s back makes it “left wing”?
This guy is a typical lemmygrad user spouting off bullshit tankie talking points. Don’t even bother.
A woman from hexbear actually. Not everyone on the internet is a man, you can afford to not be sexist and stop perceiving man as the default. I hope reading my conditional defense of historical and existing somewhat successful socialist projects hasn’t given you too much diarrhea.
The USSR famously subsidized and gave autonomy to the non Russian SSRs. Russofication was obviously a problem but much less of a problem than during the monarchy or the post union capitalist state. There is a reason why the non Russian SSRs voted at higher rates than the Russian SSR to stay in the USSR during the referendum before the illegitimate dissolution of the soviet union.
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1920/11/13.htm
China famously exempted all ethnic minorities from the one child policy.
Yeah but we are today, and I fail to see what’s actually “left wing” about the present situation. Is Russia (a fascist kleptocracy) being helped by China (state capitalist and only communist in name) somehow contributing to spreading socialism ideals? In retrospect that was maybe a rhetorical question.
(state capitalist and only communist in name)
I would read an English translation of “On the Governance of China” as well as this https://redsails.org/china-has-billionaires/
Even Lenin acknowledged that you can’t get rid of capitalism quickly, and China started from an even worse position than the USSR.
Empires competing and creating multipolarity benefits China, other socialist nations, and the imperial periphery looking to break free. Keep in mind that mao’s three worlds theory is a major influence on some socialist factions in China, even if it is reductionist. Russia maintaining strength to challenge the US(including if it comes through a defeat or truce in ukraine)(note that China is pushing for a truce which would maintain Russia’s ability to defend itself from NATO better, but supplying them to maintain their strength) is a good thing in their calculus, and I haven’t seen any compelling rebuttals to it.
Realistically, China, as an hegemony seeking super power, would do the same thing no matter what century and flavor of autocratic regime is at the helm at that particular time. No need to make it more than what it is, really.
as an hegemony seeking super power
Citation needed.
Also you didn’t really respond to anything said.
Cuba, Vietnam, Laos, DPRK, China, are all socialist projects that have succeeded to some extent. Most of them have pretty concrete plans to fully sieze the means of production by 2050 or so.
By “succeed” you mean the 1000s of countrymen and women that were slaughtered to silence by the tyrannical leaders’ armies because they were an actual threat to their grip on the people. The “success” that so many outsiders take as fact is nothing but cleverly crafted lies to make communism and socialism seem better than it actually is. The REAL truth is told by the citizens that successfully fled said countries and fled to America and other free countries. Listen to their stories and the things they experienced. THAT is the truth of what goes on in the countries.
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US police kill around a thousand people who arent in prison every year. The US contains 25 percent of the world’s prisoners despite only making up 4 percent of the world’s population.
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By “succeed” you mean the 1000s of countrymen and women that were slaughtered to silence by the tyrannical leaders’ armies because they were an actual threat to their grip on the people.
2A) lots of those people were right wing or fascist assholes who should be repressed.
2B) This is what every state does, capitalist or socialist. Socialist societies aren’t yet communist so they don’t get rid of the excesses of the state, they only get rid of the violence of capitalism.
- The US cuban regime was a horribly violent dictatorship. Now, Cuba has a thriving democracy which just overwhelmingly passed a family code by referendum that makes it the most progressive country in the world on lgbt and family rights. Before it was voted on, it was developed starting on the local level and where each citizen had input on the process and then moved up into larger committees.
The US was responsible for four million vietnamese deaths by waging their illegal war there. Vietnam is now a flourishing democracy despite still cleaning up unexploded ordnance and chemical weapon contamination. The vietnamese people have a strong anarchist tradition and decentralized community armories to resist aggression. Every citizen is trained in basic warfare and college students are required to study more advanced military knowledge. If they didn’t want their government, their government wouldnt be around for long.
Laos was bombed to shit by the US despite never being party to war. Laos is currently a one party socialist democracy that is doing well for itself and well for its people.
The US killed 20 percent of the Korean population after the dprk tried to liberate the south, which had become a US puppet military dictatorship that was killing thousands of peaceful protestors and tens of thousands total, including random people and justifiably violent protestors. The DPRK has more democratic institutions than modern South Korea. South Korea’s military is still subordinate to the US pacific command.
The socialist Chinese government has stronger democratic institutions than the US. Over a hundred million people are members of the party. The Chinese people overwhelmingly approve of the party: https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2020/07/long-term-survey-reveals-chinese-government-satisfaction/#:~:text=The survey team found that,“highly satisfied” with Beijing. Which makes sense, given that China has gone from an impoverished semi-feudal country to a modern nation massively improving the quality of life of everyone within it, all while breaking the US stranglehold on the world by merely being an economic alternative.
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Why would they do differently? Ignoring any moral arguments, Russia occupying NATO makes NATO or US aggression against China less likely to happen.
Three things. First, China had explicitly declared that it would not supply arms. Second, it has tried to cast itself as a neutral mediator and peacemaker. Third, it has a broader stated policy of respecting territorial integrity and sovereignty.
Given that NATO is providing arms for Ukraine and NATO can’t make its weapons without China it does seem fair to also provide components to Russia.
Third, it has a broader stated policy of respecting territorial integrity and sovereignty.
It can’t do this without embargoing US weapons manufacturers, but that would be catastrophic so it makes sense that it is providing everyone instead of just the US.
