All fair points. My intended point was that take some exception to Bernie’s blanket statement that the Dems abandoned the working class voters. Though I agree they haven’t focused enough there, nor message it correctly.

Biden definititely ran and led on a more progressively left platform after Bernie and AOC collaborated with them in 2020. I think it’s clear Harris was going to continue that, but I don’t think it was properly messaged

Are you trying to make a point? Because you’re not saying anything

I’m not defending Harris’ overall campaign, but I am taking some issue with Bernie claiming that the Democrats have abandoned working class voters.

I like Bernie, and he makes some good points about the lack of any bill put forth to raise the minimum wage. But I think his overall characterization is quite a bit off base, especially when compared to what the Republicans are offering working-class voters. Which is basically nothing

I’ll listen to any counterpoint with an open mind but you have to make one

The Republicans are doing zero for the working class other than lying to them and giving their money yo billionaires.

Dems supported unions where Trump impugned them

Dems forgave student loans, Republicans went to court to stop it

Dems pushed to end noncompetes for the average worker, Republicans went to court to stop it

Dems passed the CHIPS act to bring good paying jobs to multiple communities

Dems passed an infrastructure bill while Trump had 100 infrastructure weeks that accomplished nothing

Trump said he’d fire workers rather than pay them overtime

Harris promised to investigate price gouging, Trump is supported by the oligarchy

Etc, etc

Yeah, OK, the US isn’t the most economically and militarily powerful country, and by extension, politically powerful🙄

To say otherwise makes you not serious

As does bringing the metric system into the argument

Fascism needs a strong leader - authoritarianism is at the core of fascism. Of course the rank and file don’t go away, but without a strong leader, they lose their power.

Serious question: Referring back to the points I made in my previous post, who is going to effectively step into the fascism void in the US when Trump is gone?

Vance? He’s a clown and isn’t a true believer in Trumpism

DeSantis? Another clown

Ken Paxton? He’s evil enough but not sure he has the charisma to inspire the MAGAts

Trump’s base is comprised of sniveling sycophants who don’t have the personality, influence, or will to actually try and take over

Sure, but I was specifically talking about the US.

That said, when the US has a potential leader embracing fascism/authoritarianism, it creates an opportunity for the growth of those political ideologies across the world.

Keeping Trump out of office and believers in democracy in office will help blunt the power and growth of fascism across the globe. It’s not the sole solution, but it’s quite important that the most powerful country in the world not elect fascists.

While I generally agree with what you said, I’m not convinced Trumpism doesn’t die or at least go back into its hole when he goes away.

Trumpism is really nothing more than a power grab by an authoritarian who uses white nationalism rhetoric to enthrall the baser segment of society and amass a voting base to maintain power long enough to undermine democracy.

Trump could die tomorrow, and there’s a dozen wannabe authoritarians that would try to fill that void and run on Trumpism.

I’m not convinced there’s any MAGAts out there than can inspire the base, get the MAGAts in Congress to coalesce behind them, and solidify the financial support of the Musks, Thiels, etc of the oligarchy.

Not sure how to tell you this, but the right wing has, does, and will target ANY Democratic (or 3rd party) candidate that poses a realistic chance of beating them in the presidential election. The right wing doesn’t want or know how to govern, they just want to control, so they attack those that are qualified to govern.

Russia and China support and amplify unserious 3rd party candidates like Stein and RFK Jr with the support of the Republicans, because without splitting the left’s votes, the Republicans would be a powerless minority

What in the sam hell are you trying to communicate with this word salad?

But if you want to talk politics and healthcare, there’s one party that’s made any real effort at improvement in the last 2 decades, and it’s the Democrats. The Republicans try to gut the system at every opportunity.

There are plenty of Democrats in Congress that would like to continue to improve healthcare, but the Dems don’t have the numbers - particularly in the House - to pass further reform.