Nathan’s reaction:

(j/k, I just want couldn’t let this fabulous gif go to waste - and I will preemptively say that yes btw, turnabout is actually fair play!:-D)

(/s😁)

I hear that. Fwiw, a lot has been broken for a very long time - not merely weeks or months or even years but rather decades, so this is more of a reckoning that is catching up to us than it is a total surprise.

Similar to Brexit I would imagine, and many other similar trends around the globe, with similar causes and effects. People got complacent, the wealthy ignored the plight of the poor, who reacted out of desperation, and now… we’ll see.

Imagine if people dedicated their lives instead to the pursuit and application of knowledge, like curing diseases and stuff…

Omg, you might not have been paying attention lately, but I 100% guarantee that it will be solely in English. Assuming we are allowed to vote again, which tbf we probably will, it’s just that the options will be preselected for us. As it has pretty much always been, but moar so now.

I guess what I didn’t get is: doesn’t this new feature purely add, not detract, from someone’s capabilities?

So like, if you strictly wanted to read just the comments from the original community, then you could just stop at the gap where those comments end and the comments from another community begin - unless you are worried about FOMO due to seeing them and then feeling compelled to have to read them (all)?

Or if you wanted to read only let’s say half of the communities (but then all of the comments from each of those), then you can still do that? And now there are even two ways: to use the old method of accessing the cross-post menu and going to each community individually to read those, or the new way to hop and skip and jump all on just one page (this one admittedly isn’t so ideal just yet, without the ability to simply skip down to the next).

So, except for perhaps FOMO, what is being lost here? And isn’t this pretty niche, since someone can always just block the “bad” communities and never have to see them again, so that the difficulty here lies in both preserving them to show some but neither all nor none of them? That seems a more nuanced thing that isn’t likely to just spring up out of nowhere, as this initial feature did.

Well, it’s not like I’m even disagreeing with you there. Your suggestion does sound nice, and would be helpful to have.

Although I will say that I disagree that it will necessarily cause centralization of comments, or at least not entirely. For one thing you can respond to any comment, so this only affects top-level comments, and for another, subscriptions have those different implications on PieFed than on Lemmy, so e.g. I often do NOT subscribe to Lemmy.world communities such as politics or news, since that way they do not show up in my Subscribed feed - hence, all my top-level replies will be definition not be located there - and yet I can still see posts from these communities in the Topic/Feeds if I desire, and now I can also see comments from them.

Perhaps I’m just being a pendant - or I felt more like we were “exploring this space” verbally:-) - where what you are saying isn’t “necessarily” a given, and yet indeed this may encourage certain pre-existing trends, especially for those who aren’t forewarned or forearmed to resist them. And yet we still haven’t arrived so much at a (potential) “solution”, except to simply turn off the feature at the instance level, which will still allow those pre-existing trends to continue as they were, while also not helping with all the new things this offers such as helping people discover new communities, e.g. outside of Lemmy.world, that they probably had no idea even existed:-). i.e. yes there is a cost to this new feature, but there are also costs to not having it as well. And the costs to me seem small - bc again, someone can simply ignore all of these extra comments (except for FOMO?) and stop reading after the primary set, while if this feature did not exist then it would take a lot more time having to hunt through and read all of the comments from each community individually - which I used to do, which is why I’m saying that I LOVE this new feature!:-) But… maybe an option to disable it offered per user account would be sufficient to help improve it for you? If you can pin down something that doesn’t take a lot of effort, you could submit a feature request for that?

Get out of here with your product advertising! (/s)

Maybe, just maybe, it shouldn’t be an age but a knowledge requirement. Some 10 year olds know that there are (were?) e.g. 3 branches of government, while I kid you not there are some 20+ year olds that are not aware of that plain and simple fact fact. On average, older people tend to be a little bit more knowledgeable than young, if only due to having had more time to figure stuff out, although otoh also society does change out from under them - e.g. which is more trustworthy, something seen on the TV “news”, or something shared on TikTok?

It seems more like an attitude of responsibility to me than an age or anything else. Perhaps make college degree a requirement - while keeping the GI bill offering college funding to people who successfully serve (without being dishonorably discharged) in the military. Or just a test of how government “works”.

Or rather, used to work. We aren’t coming back from this, methinks.

If you will, allow me to attempt a friendly rebuttal?

You aren’t on PieFed right now anyway? So maybe you mean that this is a reason to not join it? “Soon” the Thunder app will officially support PieFed and that will offer additional options for an interface.

A new feature just dropped where you click on the words and it takes you to the original community. Yes, I mean that the new feature was added to the new feature, just in the time that we’ve been having this conversation, started 13 hours ago on this post from 21 hours ago. THIS is the pace of development of PieFed, compared to Lemmy. I’m not suggesting that you not offer feedback - conversely, I’m saying that there is a VERY high chance that it will be heard, considered, and possibly implemented all within the space of mere days.

For instance I’d love to see an option to skip past one comment section to the next one, for situations like this. That way you could read “some but not all” of such comments, from such communities as you do not enjoy as much as other communities, but not have a hard time moving on to the next.

Everything is optional here: when you click on a post it shows up as the “main”/OP, and then other cross-posts are indicated, and their comments appended to the END of that conversation thread. Therefore you can read all the OC’s comments and then simply stop before reading the next ones from other communities. But yeah, this could definitely be improved & streamlined as mentioned above.

To your first point, Lemmy offers very few to no options to implement that ideology - you either are subscribed to something or you are not (unless you are willing to brave looking at All, which I did but those who do definitely seem to be in the tiny minority, to the point of being made fun of to admit it, sadly). PieFed offers many, Many, MANY choices in-between, for posts, and so it would very much be in the same spirit to add some additional options as you alluded to regarding comments. Perhaps “only show top comments (rather than all)”, maybe even an exact (edit: I meant to add “user customizable” here) limiting threshold specified like first 20 comments, using whatever sorting method (Hot/New/etc.). Of course, someone would have to do that work to make it happen! PieFed being written in Python rather than the super difficult and unfinished language Rust makes that much easier, i.e. far more people are capable of such, if only they are willing! Perhaps you’ll add it even:-). If not, then it’s still great that you are offering suggestions:-).

But this is a very new feature, and yeah it’ll take time to perfect. Your second topic seems a tiny little bit to go against the spirit of your first, where you didn’t want content to be opt-out, yet you also wanted to be exposed to new things that are in-between never see it vs. always see it. It will take time to discover the UX needs and then implement it in a UI. I hope my suggestions above help the devs a little to explore that - like top 20 comments rather than “all the comments” vs. “none of the comments”.

If that is the case, then wouldn’t you want to block that community? In which circumstance its comments would not pollute other posts. I confirm that at least for the situation where you “block all users from instance” (I did this for lemmy.ml), those don’t show up in these additional comments, and surely the same is true for blocked communities as well.

I believe I understand it. To clarify:

The normal Thunder app works perfectly with Lemmy instances. I’ve got it and while I haven’t registered my account with it yet, it works very well even as a guest to read content - it’s a great app!:-)

There is also a fork for the app, designed specifically for testing purposes, which only works atm (iirc) for a single PieFed instance. This fork no longer works with any Lemmy instances, nor any instances of PieFed either that aren’t running the API code. So it’s testing the backend and frontend connections, requiring specializations on both ends to work at all.

When all of that is done, the fork can be requested to be merged into the main branch, and become a standard feature of Thunder, to work either with Lemmy or with PieFed instances.

But notably, getting to what I thought you meant: PieFed itself still connects perfectly to Lemmy, due to its implementation of the ActivityPub protocol (and Mastodon, Friendica, Pixelfed, Loops, and whatever else may also use that same ActivityPub protocol to share content).

I hope this explanation helps at least a little!:-)

PieFed has not merely several but MANY concepts along these lines.

Lemmy, for ah… “reasons”, seems to have none. In fact, having a modlog but no modmail, nor any type of active notification of a moderation event occuring (e.g. content removal, locking, or banning), nor any method of asking whoever removed the content why (worse: the modlog used to say the account name that did so, but now merely says “mod”), there is a very compelling argument to say that Lemmy is more authoritian than even Reddit is, at least at the end-user level (though not for instance admins or mods).

Edit: At which point PieFed’s efforts to provide democratization of moderation are like a breath of fresh air!:-) No longer must a mod+admin team be the sole arbitraters of content - users can themselves do things like filter out all, or just a little, or none of content matching certain keywords such as “Musk” or “Trump”. And icons next to usernames help alleviate the need to always block trolls - seeing that someone has an account less than two weeks old, or posts far more than they comment (unregistered bot?), or receives many more downvotes than upvotes (contentious user!) helps inform whether or how you may want to respond, while still allowing you to read their content if you should so desire. Such tools as these (and several others) put the choice of whether to see many varieties of content or not into the hands of individual users, unlike the Lemmy + Reddit model where only a mod+admin gets to decide for everyone in the community all at once. Okay so here’s another one: if you wish, you can have PieFed automatically collapse, or even hide outright (two different settings, with different filter thresholds) content that receives many downvotes. Personally I don’t like these so I turn them both off - but they still offer me that choice, which I greatly appreciate.:-)