Basically none on the part of the handlers. Often this arrangement is handled by a private firm that doesn’t necessarily have to be Russian or Chinese, I have heard of one operating in Australia. The posters themselves are spending a lot of time, but they’re the ones selling it.
Money
Again, they’re not exactly paying these guys a living wage, and even if they were, it’s peanut crumbs for state-level actors.
Effort
A lot of people say that Lemmy is not worth the effort to demoralize because it’s too small, I say the effort is too small to not be worth the investment. I would even say that Lemmy users are self-selected for radicalization in some ways, broadly speaking they are fed up with corporate social media and corporatism in general.
It’s also a somewhat important step to have a place they can speak unfiltered amongst themselves, no matter how small the clubhouse is. That’s where the real funky shit happens.
I doubt those people are even aware of Lemmy, let alone hiring teams of people to post here. But regardless of how plausible it is, this is just speculation with no evidence behind it.
That which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
commercial and propaganda bots have a tendency of taking small fora, and other sites with the ability to post, offline, as they overwhelm these super tiny venues, once their automated scrapers find them. There doesn’t have to be a team of people doing something other than monitoring bots.
Also, I doubt anyone gets exposed to lemmy alone. It is very reasonable to believe many spend time on places worth using actual people to tailor their messaging to, and then carry that over here, and anywhere else they go. Point being, there no place so small that it becomes void of this.
Most of the users people are complaining about are very obviously not bots though. After investigating and interacting with them, I’ve universally found that they’re just weird, terminally online people with extreme views.
Actually, an offline friend of mine was recently accused of being an online shill. I’ve been pretty skeptical of these claims for a while but having a case with definitive proof has lost me all patience for these types of accusations. There’s just no point in accusing people like this unless you have actual proof. Most people are very very bad at distinguishing real users from propaganda.
Oh, I am not trying to say these particular people are bots, I am just pointing out that lemmy is not free of bots due to its size, also that there people are not solely on lemmy, so they are likely getting propaganda , in bot farm form, elsewhere, be it the US, Russia, China, EU, Exxon, whatever.
Lemmy is very lefty, by nature, it could be considered that causing dissent within broadly the lefty sphere, in a targetted fashion, such as through the IP conflict, would be considered worthwhile.
It could even be worthwhile for other reasons, preventing people from caring about the ukraine conflict for example.
Though i think other people are right with the useful idiots. I would argue it’s still summing up to a propaganda outlet, it’s just free labor instead.
I agree that people here are uncritically regurgitating propaganda but of course liberals are also guilty of this. Frankly, it’s fairly difficult to avoid in this era. Most sources of information are controlled by or at minimum influenced by various powerful forces in society, each with their own interests.
I guess it is a little more surprising to see people absorbing propaganda from hostile foreign nations than from their own. But another part of me thinks I’m not being critical enough of the idea of nationalism which is a harmful and largely fictional concept.
I agree that people here are uncritically regurgitating propaganda but of course liberals are also guilty of this.
fair enough, i mean everybody is, although i think the ideology of liberalism is uniquely suited to it since it’s a sort of meta ideology in it’s own right. When appropriately used it should be pretty hard to get mislead, but of course, people aren’t very smart and use things incorrectly all the time, so that doesn’t really help much. But there’s an argument to be made for it over things like conservatism and communism where those tend to be a lot more rampant by design.
Most sources of information are controlled by or at minimum influenced by various powerful forces in society, each with their own interests.
this is true, but there is also an equally big, if not larger trap you can fall into with alternative media, just look at the republican party right now. It’s on par with the nazi propaganda machine in terms of how well it functions.
I guess it is a little more surprising to see people absorbing propaganda from hostile foreign nations than from their own.
this one is definitely the most baffling to me. The fact that US citizens will unironically consume sources like RT for actual news is wild.
But another part of me thinks I’m not being critical enough of the idea of nationalism which is a harmful and largely fictional concept.
I would argue that there is an inherently negative value in nationalism, aside from support of that governing body itself, and an innate positive value in something like patriotism instead.
Highly doubtful. The amount of time, money, and effort would be much better spent elsewhere. Lemmy’s audience is very small.
Yeah, more likely the actors on Lemmy are just useful idiots parroting propaganda points they’ve heard elsewhere.
Basically none on the part of the handlers. Often this arrangement is handled by a private firm that doesn’t necessarily have to be Russian or Chinese, I have heard of one operating in Australia. The posters themselves are spending a lot of time, but they’re the ones selling it.
Again, they’re not exactly paying these guys a living wage, and even if they were, it’s peanut crumbs for state-level actors.
A lot of people say that Lemmy is not worth the effort to demoralize because it’s too small, I say the effort is too small to not be worth the investment. I would even say that Lemmy users are self-selected for radicalization in some ways, broadly speaking they are fed up with corporate social media and corporatism in general.
It’s also a somewhat important step to have a place they can speak unfiltered amongst themselves, no matter how small the clubhouse is. That’s where the real funky shit happens.
I doubt those people are even aware of Lemmy, let alone hiring teams of people to post here. But regardless of how plausible it is, this is just speculation with no evidence behind it.
That which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
commercial and propaganda bots have a tendency of taking small fora, and other sites with the ability to post, offline, as they overwhelm these super tiny venues, once their automated scrapers find them. There doesn’t have to be a team of people doing something other than monitoring bots.
Also, I doubt anyone gets exposed to lemmy alone. It is very reasonable to believe many spend time on places worth using actual people to tailor their messaging to, and then carry that over here, and anywhere else they go. Point being, there no place so small that it becomes void of this.
Most of the users people are complaining about are very obviously not bots though. After investigating and interacting with them, I’ve universally found that they’re just weird, terminally online people with extreme views.
Actually, an offline friend of mine was recently accused of being an online shill. I’ve been pretty skeptical of these claims for a while but having a case with definitive proof has lost me all patience for these types of accusations. There’s just no point in accusing people like this unless you have actual proof. Most people are very very bad at distinguishing real users from propaganda.
Oh, I am not trying to say these particular people are bots, I am just pointing out that lemmy is not free of bots due to its size, also that there people are not solely on lemmy, so they are likely getting propaganda , in bot farm form, elsewhere, be it the US, Russia, China, EU, Exxon, whatever.
debatable though.
Lemmy is very lefty, by nature, it could be considered that causing dissent within broadly the lefty sphere, in a targetted fashion, such as through the IP conflict, would be considered worthwhile.
It could even be worthwhile for other reasons, preventing people from caring about the ukraine conflict for example.
Though i think other people are right with the useful idiots. I would argue it’s still summing up to a propaganda outlet, it’s just free labor instead.
I agree that people here are uncritically regurgitating propaganda but of course liberals are also guilty of this. Frankly, it’s fairly difficult to avoid in this era. Most sources of information are controlled by or at minimum influenced by various powerful forces in society, each with their own interests.
I guess it is a little more surprising to see people absorbing propaganda from hostile foreign nations than from their own. But another part of me thinks I’m not being critical enough of the idea of nationalism which is a harmful and largely fictional concept.
fair enough, i mean everybody is, although i think the ideology of liberalism is uniquely suited to it since it’s a sort of meta ideology in it’s own right. When appropriately used it should be pretty hard to get mislead, but of course, people aren’t very smart and use things incorrectly all the time, so that doesn’t really help much. But there’s an argument to be made for it over things like conservatism and communism where those tend to be a lot more rampant by design.
this is true, but there is also an equally big, if not larger trap you can fall into with alternative media, just look at the republican party right now. It’s on par with the nazi propaganda machine in terms of how well it functions.
this one is definitely the most baffling to me. The fact that US citizens will unironically consume sources like RT for actual news is wild.
I would argue that there is an inherently negative value in nationalism, aside from support of that governing body itself, and an innate positive value in something like patriotism instead.