Take your pick — There’s a whole world of insults that don’t involve punching down at marginalised groups. I realise that may sound hyperbolic, but I say it because I’m someone who is sometimes the recipient of that slur, and it’s jarring to see it in spaces like this. I know that in this case, it wasn’t at me, but a key part of why insults like this carry weight is because of the comparison it makes to people like me (even if only implicitly).
My hope is that we might be more creative with our insults when solidarity is our best weapon against these assholes
That being said, most people don’t know how to throw a punch. To the degree that many people need to be told not to hold their thumbs in their fist. They aren’t concerned with the collateral damage, to themselves or otherwise - they’re just throwing the punch.
I’m not saying it’s right, but this is the reality. These people have never been trained to recognize the value of articulating themselves correctly, or maybe they have but they’ve been in the monkey pit for so long that they just learned how to fling shit as a defense mechanism.
I don’t think you’re wrong in advocating for the abolishment of certain words, or rather the uses of those words. I do think you’re pissin in the wind, though.
You may be right, but hope has gotten me much farther than defeatism has. And I’ve never been clinging so desperately to hope as now, when the US is being governed by such abominable lickspittles. (I confess that my previous comment about creativity in insults caused me to be a bit extra here).
Besides, I’ve had plenty of times when I’ve been foolish and saying things that I didn’t realise were harmful. Humans are incredibly easily swayed by group norms, and this is often for the worse. However, I’ve found that there can be a huge impact from people saying “hey, not cool”. I don’t have to be someone who changes any minds, just someone who can feel like they tried, regardless of if the tides change in the direction I’m pushing.
Plus, you’d actually be surprised at how many times I’ve had productive conversations on Lemmy from engaging earnestly with someone being aggressive. One of the reasons I like hanging out here is that I feel much more like I’m talking to people, in part because of how much more I see people apologising or being mature in dicey conversations. I certainly wouldn’t say that I have good results every time, but it’s often enough that it’s a key part of what I enjoy on this platform. Especially because I have enjoyed this wee conversation that you and I have had, independent of the person I was originally speaking to — you also count as one of the 'surprisingly pleasant" interactions that spring forth from challenging someone (especially as your first comment made me expect you to be far more adversarial than you have been).
I’m watching the shows “Life on Mars” and “Ashes to Ashes”, both of which prominently display modern sensibilities in the 70’s and 80’s, respectably.
It’s very easy to hear the problem youre describing if one can’t see/hear it in the modern context. The amount of casual racism, sexism, misogyny, homophobia, ableism. (Hard ableism, as in a deaf kid gets treated as if they were mentally disabled.)
Oh yeah, I can imagine; I feel like I would cringe if I rewatched those shows (especially as I was less visibly disabled back when I watched them the first time, and so hadn’t experienced random ableist slurs directed at me by strangers on the street).
Whenever someone mentions that the 70s and 80s were 40-50 years ago, I usually feel uncomfortable at the inexorable passage of time and my place within it; however when I consider how far we’ve come since then though, across many different domains, I feel slightly heartened — when the reality is that progress happens a trickle at a time, I feel less small and overwhelmed at my own capacity to make change happen.
I don’t know if you realised, but I’m not talking about shows from the 70’s and 80’s, but of shows which are from 2006 and 2008 and which have the main character be of that modern era and then experience the 70’s/80’s through the lens of someone from ~2007.
Yeah I was born in the 80’s, I definitely know that feel. My brain still defaults to calculating things as if it were 2000. “The 70’s? That’s 30 years ago.”
No, no, I know what you mean. I can see how my phrasing was confusing though. I watched the shows you mentioned when they first came out, but I think that I would cringe far more today than I did back then. Ignorance is bliss (for those privileged enough to be ignorant)
Take your pick — There’s a whole world of insults that don’t involve punching down at marginalised groups. I realise that may sound hyperbolic, but I say it because I’m someone who is sometimes the recipient of that slur, and it’s jarring to see it in spaces like this. I know that in this case, it wasn’t at me, but a key part of why insults like this carry weight is because of the comparison it makes to people like me (even if only implicitly).
My hope is that we might be more creative with our insults when solidarity is our best weapon against these assholes
I understand what you’re saying, and I agree.
That being said, most people don’t know how to throw a punch. To the degree that many people need to be told not to hold their thumbs in their fist. They aren’t concerned with the collateral damage, to themselves or otherwise - they’re just throwing the punch.
I’m not saying it’s right, but this is the reality. These people have never been trained to recognize the value of articulating themselves correctly, or maybe they have but they’ve been in the monkey pit for so long that they just learned how to fling shit as a defense mechanism.
I don’t think you’re wrong in advocating for the abolishment of certain words, or rather the uses of those words. I do think you’re pissin in the wind, though.
You may be right, but hope has gotten me much farther than defeatism has. And I’ve never been clinging so desperately to hope as now, when the US is being governed by such abominable lickspittles. (I confess that my previous comment about creativity in insults caused me to be a bit extra here).
Besides, I’ve had plenty of times when I’ve been foolish and saying things that I didn’t realise were harmful. Humans are incredibly easily swayed by group norms, and this is often for the worse. However, I’ve found that there can be a huge impact from people saying “hey, not cool”. I don’t have to be someone who changes any minds, just someone who can feel like they tried, regardless of if the tides change in the direction I’m pushing.
Plus, you’d actually be surprised at how many times I’ve had productive conversations on Lemmy from engaging earnestly with someone being aggressive. One of the reasons I like hanging out here is that I feel much more like I’m talking to people, in part because of how much more I see people apologising or being mature in dicey conversations. I certainly wouldn’t say that I have good results every time, but it’s often enough that it’s a key part of what I enjoy on this platform. Especially because I have enjoyed this wee conversation that you and I have had, independent of the person I was originally speaking to — you also count as one of the 'surprisingly pleasant" interactions that spring forth from challenging someone (especially as your first comment made me expect you to be far more adversarial than you have been).
Small wins, but I’ll take them
I’m watching the shows “Life on Mars” and “Ashes to Ashes”, both of which prominently display modern sensibilities in the 70’s and 80’s, respectably.
It’s very easy to hear the problem youre describing if one can’t see/hear it in the modern context. The amount of casual racism, sexism, misogyny, homophobia, ableism. (Hard ableism, as in a deaf kid gets treated as if they were mentally disabled.)
Oh yeah, I can imagine; I feel like I would cringe if I rewatched those shows (especially as I was less visibly disabled back when I watched them the first time, and so hadn’t experienced random ableist slurs directed at me by strangers on the street).
Whenever someone mentions that the 70s and 80s were 40-50 years ago, I usually feel uncomfortable at the inexorable passage of time and my place within it; however when I consider how far we’ve come since then though, across many different domains, I feel slightly heartened — when the reality is that progress happens a trickle at a time, I feel less small and overwhelmed at my own capacity to make change happen.
I don’t know if you realised, but I’m not talking about shows from the 70’s and 80’s, but of shows which are from 2006 and 2008 and which have the main character be of that modern era and then experience the 70’s/80’s through the lens of someone from ~2007.
Yeah I was born in the 80’s, I definitely know that feel. My brain still defaults to calculating things as if it were 2000. “The 70’s? That’s 30 years ago.”
No, no, I know what you mean. I can see how my phrasing was confusing though. I watched the shows you mentioned when they first came out, but I think that I would cringe far more today than I did back then. Ignorance is bliss (for those privileged enough to be ignorant)
I think it was probably not that bothersome when it came out — seeing as it was nigh two decade ago. Society has changed.
But i congratulate those 00’'-10’s producers for putting in what they did.
It’s still handles kinda nicely at points, showing them clearly learning from the new values begrudgingly imposed.
It’s not exactly hateful most times, but it is harmful.