- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
- [email protected]
- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
- [email protected]
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Murica, land of the free, was founded by people who owned slaves. While speaking about the evils of slavery.
So the madness was always there.
That entire country needs to be Gaza’d. Let them get a taste of what they are causing in the Middle East by aiding Israel.
The US is just Helldivers 2 in real life. A democracy managed by Elon Musk and people ready to die for „liberty“, „prosperity“ and „freedom“.
Don’t make me feel bad about my beloved Helldivers!
We live in a country that was stolen then we stole some other people so they could do the work for us. Then conquering half a continent wasn’t good enough for us, so we went around ruining other places if they didn’t want to give us all their stuff. If people think we only recently crossed a line, I’d generously hope they were just ignorant because the alternative is horrific. Every piece of the past is a step that got us to where we are.
I’m starting to think the same thing, if you go over US foreign policy since WW2 it is almost like the mask is just coming off entirely now.
America did a lot of bad stuff, to put it mildly. This is definitely something else though.
I agree, that’s what I mean by it just going mask off, there’s no pretending about a probable cause of higher moral path etc this time.
What? You’re welcome for all that world peace and prosperity since ww2. It is about time Europe started to share this burden.
Sorry to burst that bubble, but just because you were never taught about the things they’re talking about doesn’t mean they didn’t happen.
It just means your education system, like most, is run by nationalists that care more aboutv using mythology to make more nationalists than about conveying historical fact.
Lol national mythology
Legend says it started with Trump getting a dirty sanchez in a Moscow brothel.
I was there the day the strength of men failed.
2016
Murica was never free, has always been madness
We were freed from England. Slaves were freed from slavery. But, no, we were never freed from plutocracy. We’ve made attempts, though. There will always be someone trying to opress. There will always be a culture of servitude because in service of others power is concentrated.
Although, America has continued to fight for its freedom. Sometimes winning. Sometimes losing. As a result Americans have experienced more freedom than those who came before.
Americans have experienced more freedom than those who came before.
[citation needed]
I dunno read a book.
What books are you reading that you think 1776 was about anyone’s freedom except for the bourgeoisie’s freedom to exploit the working class and genocide the natives?
That’s not to say the people who did the fighting and dying didn’t think they were fighting for freedom, just that they were surprised when they were disenfranchised by property requirements and laws that favored the big bourgeoisie over themselves. You may remember Shays Rebellion and the Whiskey Rebellion?
If you’re looking for further reading, The Counter Revolution of 1776 is a good one.
You’re proving my point by 1856 all states had removed the property ownership requirement for whites.
Please, just the bare minium reading comprehension next time you try to engage someone.
by 1856 all states had removed the property ownership requirement for whites.
The purpose of that was to marginalize the freed slaves and keep the working class divided. The removal of the requirement wasn’t because a faction in power decided it would be nice and create a freer society, but because it gave them further power.
To quote LBJ a century later: “If you can convince the lowest white man he’s better than the best colored man, he won’t notice you’re picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he’ll empty his pockets for you.”
Please, just the bare minium reading comprehension next time you try to engage someone.
Don’t condescend when you haven’t read shit on a subject.
Americans have experienced more freedom than those who came before.
How are Americans more free than the native people that were on the continent before Europeans arrived?
Answer: They aren’t
Ok.
You really won the morality dick measuring contest we weren’t having.
I said America was never free and you said
Americans have experienced more freedom than those who came before.
Why are your acting like you weren’t clearly disagreeing with me?
Slavery in the British Empire ended a generation before slavery ended in the US.
Sorry, but USA was founded on hypocrisy, pretty words about freedom and equality set down on paper by slave masters.
Everyone else in the world knows you get freedom by voting for it in election after election. Only Americans believe that freedom is granted by deified slave masters.
Sorry, was your argument the British empire is more free than America?
Edit: also did you just call the gibberish that comes out my mouth flowery?
Seek help.
All states are tyranny, agreed.
True but if you don’t have an army you’ll quickly become a slave to others who do have an army
Europe must join together send to shit USA and go full Gandalf the White
May I suggest to evaluate the idea to side with Russia and go full homeland vs newland. I mean EU + Russia sided with China could smash the old USA. If USA leaves NATO the rest of NATO could integrate Russia. Top notch superpower, with a little topping of democracy. TL DR What if EU + RU Vs USA ?
I mean it’s easier for logistics once you build proper infrastructure. Better than an ocean
But don’t mind this comment nor take it seriously, what I want is no more wars.
Peace
For you ukraine doesn’t matter?
This whole template implies that Russia is Sauron. I wouldnt side with it.
Of course It matters, as anyone. I was thinking if USA leave NATO what if we side with Russia, we as EU Ukraine included. But I’m not thinking of military strategy but an hypothetical scenario that would result as a no death stability of the new biggest, triumvirate between China Europe and Russia. Hopefully thinking that those countries are more inclined to have more civilized manners and thus permeable to democratic values.
“What if we abandon siding with one authoritarian and side with a different authoritarian” is not the good argument you seem to think it is.
we side with Russia, we as EU Ukraine included
Become part of Russia’s empire is the only way this works.
You are right and I am wishing for a third way, as equals as in EU. With Russia in EU the congress gonna be so much fun. They already are with one foot (Hungary), Serbia also would be dragged in ending the balcanization by making really peaceful. EU would have access to raw materials. Russia to cutting edge theory and tech. Lesser partner would be china!
Russia needs to fundamentally change for that to happen. Maybe even disintegrate a lose much of their central and eastern asian territory. Russia is too big to be easily integrated into europe.
Yes, I agree but maybe some day Putin will leave the charge either voluntarily or by dying. What will happen then? Elections? Succession?
It’s not analogy, it’s allegory. It applies too well to the world.
I cordially dislike allegory in all its manifestations, and always have done so since I grew old and wary enough to detect its presence. I much prefer history – true or feigned– with its varied applicability to the thought and experience of readers. I think that many confuse applicability with allegory, but the one resides in the freedom of the reader, and the other in the purposed domination of the author.
True. But in 21st century colloquial speech, a linguist would have to admit that, descriptively, “widely applicable” and “allegorical” are nearly synonymous. But I’m also a fan of the quote, history does not often repeat itself - but it rhymes. So whether it’s fictional history or rough allegory, the end result is the same.
in 21st century colloquial speech, a linguist would have to admit that, descriptively, “widely applicable” and “allegorical” are nearly synonymous
Ha. You’re the second person to have suggested that, so maybe there is something to it. But to be honest I’m not sure I agree. I don’t think I’d ever use the term allegory without authorial intent. (But to save repeating myself, I’ll just direct you to my reply to @[email protected].)
Or, at the very least, even if you are inclined to disregard authorial intent, there’s still a subtle difference between allegory and applicability in that allegory requires an almost direct one-to-one relationship between the text and various elements of the real world, while applicability can be much more subtle or broad strokes. Basically, applicability is a broader term than allegory, a superset.
Dear sir, may I refer you to my previous rebuttal to the esteemed colleague @[email protected]
I can’t xD
Downvoted for disliking allegory.
It’s a Tolkien quote about his buddy CS Lewis’s Narnia and he’s up his own ass in it.
You downvoting granda Tolkien?
I’ll do it again
The fuck you on about, mate? You got a problem with allegories?
I dunno if you’re just memeing or if you genuinely don’t know.
In case it’s the latter…I posted a fairly famous quote from the author responsible for the text this community is based on.
I really didn’t know, so thanks for explaining it.
Fun fact: allegory had a different meaning back when Tolkien lived. Language evolved. Tolkien never mentioned hating what allegory now means - an interpretation of a story by the audience as representative of another issue. In fact, he said he was a fan of that sort of thing in your quote.
I’m not sure that I agree it has changed. To me, an allegory implies authorial intent. Some classic examples being Tolkien’s friend Lewis whose Narnia novels were an allegory for Christianity, George Orwell’s Animal Farm, an allegory for early Communist USSR, or The Crucible by Arthur Miller, an allegory for America’s red scare.
If it isn’t done with authorial intent, it’s still absolutely possible to be a valid reading of the text that there are parallels, but IMO that’s no longer an allegory.
The Matrix is a trans allegory, despite the fact that neither of the Wachowskis knew they were trans at that time. They put their feelings of gender confusion, dysphoria, and euphoria into the movie, despite not understanding those feelings. And it made it a masterpiece. That’s proof allegory doesn’t require intent.
I will draw you, Donald, as poison is drawn from a wound.
Europe after stopping fighting the most brutal and effective wars for centuries:
You’re sure you want us back? We’ll be united this time too.
But like… hundred/-s of years ago we had a very different moral system? Which doesn’t justify nuts, but we recognize our crimes against humanity!
Do you not think that today the us wanting a colonial empire is so so so much worse?
Are you under the impression that Europe is somehow inoculated against imperialism? It’s been fine going along with the US right up to this point, and has sins all its own.
Aye
Yea? Not only has no eu country made no attempt to acquire new colonies in the last hundred or so years, they actively deloconized!
In opposition to the US, that demands mineral rights among others in Ukraine! That keeps Guam uprepresented for another example, or for a third example their threats of expansion to greenland and canada! When was the last time any eu countries did anything like that?
Eh, colonialism has ended less than it has evolved.
What do you mean?
Most US imperialist actions post-WWII haven’t been for territory. The modern version is more economic and abstract. It’s why Steven Pinker could write a whole book on why violence has declined in the world, be technically correct for the most part, but completely misses how the situation has transformed.
And yes, the EU is very guilty of it all, too. You can claim the US is worse, and certainly a revival of territorial imperialism is a regression to a horrible history, but this wholesale wiping away of EU sins is completely unjustified.
Aside from me giving literally gave 3 examples of the US holding/pursuing territorial expansion while not giving/not planning to give representation(guam, canada, greenland)… Do you think that makes it good? Should we start praising Trump for only wanting the mineral rights of Ukraine?
Unlike you Americans, we actually do recognize our actions against our past colonies as crimes against humanity! But aside from stopping and holding bilateral development programs for them, da fuck are we supposed to do?
Unlike you Americans, we actually do recognize our actions against our past colonies as crimes against humanity!
lmao 14 countries are forced to use France’s central bank. Do you think Africa sells you labor and resources for pennies instead of developing their means of production because they just love stripping their country of resources for you?
You should kind of read your links, you know? Doesn’t write a singular word ab how these 14 countries were aggressively forced to use the stable cfc instead of the hyper-inflating rand
I don’t see the link or the example where their resources are unjusty pilfered! I too can make definitive statements you know? American chedar is scientifically the grossest cheese!
I explicitly said it’s a return to a horrible history. If you’re not going to take arguments that are given, then I think we’re done here.
When? When did you say “…return to the past…”? You wobbled on about that us (complete fucking nonsense mind you, the cold war was a thing) and you vaguely stated that it did imperialism without stating a time or a specific event… So maybe you can try that? What country is doing what?
deleted by creator
Queue historical materialism
?
It’s a theory in international relations which argues that colonialism is all present today and excercised by mainly the West, but not in the form of guns and slavery but via the economical system and centre vs periphery
Oooooh
Potentially yes, but europe was so nice all in peace (compared to before).
Potentially? So a back when the populus couldn’t read then crimes against humanity was bad! But now, that the population can read now crimes against humanity are good? Makes a lot of sense
I answered your question about us imperialism. Should we too gang up? Probably yes. Will it only be giid? Probably no should we counter russia? Yes.
To be fair, your post is hard to read/understand.
Maybe you should ask if you are not clear ab someone else’s post?
Lets take another run at it! You complain about our, European, crimes against humanity! The ones that we stopped doing and recognize them to be warcrimes ag humanity! Is your issue with that that we stopped doing them unlike you americans?
I was just jesting that we had the biggest most fearsomes armys ever, for good (fighting nazis) and bad (being nazis? Being imperialists, etc.) but we stopped “all that” and now putin pokes us enough to go back to our war stance (but this time we are united).
I don’t know what I said that made you think I’m pro imperialism or that I even spoke about crimes against humanity (it do happens europeans do them sometimes and that atrocious of course, but today it’s russia who do them every day, all day long).
Hope that clears it up!
Slavery and colonization is not “war”.
You have no idea what you are talking about.
You have no idea what you are talking about.
More importantly, why is EU Gandalf supporting so many pro-Sauron leaders when they have USA Saruman’s fall as a cautionary tale right in front of them?
Oh, my friend
How did you come
To trade the fiddle for the drum
America may be able to join Russia, but ultimately the war in Ukraine is a war on Europe so how tf does Europe “join” Russia (besides handing over the entire territory)?
I think that’s the point, that’s what Saruman here is advising, just like some European politics, unfortunately - to join Russia willingly, to become what Belarus is, a vasal state.
How about Europe joins the war?
no thank you
Friesengard
