Summary
Trump just presided over one of the greatest diplomatic disasters in modern history, with flared tempers, raised voices, and shredded protocol.
Never before has a U.S. president bullied and berated an adversary, never mind an ally, in such a public way.
During a tense Oval Office meeting, Trump and JD Vance attacked Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, demanding he accept a peace deal with Russia or lose U.S. support.
The conversation devolved into shouting, with Trump accusing Zelenskyy of being ungrateful and “gambling with World War III.”
The meeting ended in chaos, with no agreement reached.
I just saw an ad for G20, a fiction where some terrorists kidnap all the leaders of the G20 at the meeting. But don’t worry, the US president frees herself, and she’s going full Liam Neeson to free everyone and get revenge.
LOL completely unbelievable
What would instead happen with the US president that is in charge now: if you free me I will help you with all your requests and I will personally execute the hostages
“Democracy dies on live TV” - wow that headline hits hard.
“US chances at…”
Need to be added to the start. As if other countries aren’t somehow capable is such an USamericanism.
It says Diplomacy, but both are fitting actually
Good job America! Proud of y’all for once again standing up for your values of oppression and greed.
I know my meme game has died and ascended into Boomerdoom, for I’ve seen this about 12 times and IDK what’s up
Fuck off Ivan
There can be absolutely zero doubt that Trump is a Russian stooge
I don’t know what it can be, but every ounce of me hates both of these men. I don’t even want to call them men. I can’t think of a possible way that they could suffer and feel the emotion of helplessness and sorrow. Whatever would happen, I don’t think they’d care. They literally wouldn’t care - because they have the mindset that they are invincible and can have whatever they want.
I think Tolkien has words for the corrupted, the lesser beings that are greedy agressive morons, “orcs”
I think “tried to bully Zelensky” would have been a little more accurate. Of course Trump and Vance failed at that too. All they’re good at is manipulating the most stupid people on the planet. If I was morally depraved, I bet I could do it pretty easily too.
remember you guys. peace day 1! trump never lies
This is genuinely one of the stupidest things I’ve seen. We all are used the the bar getting lower and lower but lordy it just accelerated.
I’m ready to protest this shit. Tell me when and where to show up, my local big city or state capital. This is some bullshit. Trump and Vance are egotistical dickheads. Ukraine are our allies! Imagine George Washington doing this with Marquis de Lafayette, or FDR with Churchill!! Unspeakable!
Ukraine is a US ally. Trump is a Russian ally. Of course he would attack his adversary.
Bro have you been in a coma? The US is now taking the side of Russia, North Korea, Iran and China. Our alliances with the free west are dead.
That’s kinda what they said.
I thought they were making that typical American denialist point that “actually the US is still friends with Ukraine, it’s just trump that’s the problem”.
Just show up, invite others, everyone is waiting for someone else to do something (present company included).
Why would any nation that does not have nukes not start making nukes right now?
The USA has shown over and over, it’s the only thing we take seriously. We don’t give a fuck until you have nukes. We don’t care about treaties, alliances, deals. We only care if you can start the nuke wars. Anything else is just “how can we take advantage of you?”
Also … World, I understand you’re not reading this, but for the three of ya that do, boycott us. Tariff the shit out of us. You got this, and thanks for all the fish.
Unfortunately Ukraine was part of the Budapest Memorandum. With this they gave up their nuclear armament in an agreement that "prohibited Russia, the United States, the United Kingdom and France from threatening or using military force or economic coercion against Ukraine, Belarus, and Kazakhstan, “except in self-defence or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations.”
So they gave up their nukes with the agreement that they would be safe from these 4 groups. However that didn’t do shit for them, thus a huge reason why any SeasFire would have to have some big security backing. As Russia has ignored all prior agreements.
Exactly why the lesson any other non-nuclear armed country should learn is to get the nukes
What you say feels right, and it is breaking my heart
Prof. John Mearshmeyer have been talking about great power’s expansionism and it’s relation to nuclear armament since at least 2015.
Yup. And when Russia invaded Ukraine, everyone called him a Russian puppet because of course America would never!
As an American,
It’s too hard. Yeah, we understand the required specs, but the precision machines and rare ores are internationally monitored. Tom Clancy’s The Sum of All Fears was eye opening as to what the terrorists had to go through to make a single bomb. And it fizzled into a “normal” atom bomb.
And I’m not even talking about the experts involved, a physics degree ain’t gonna get it. The precision machining for the tooling alone is mind blowing, then you gotta fab the actual parts. Again, you’re not getting people like that in a room with a LinkedIn ad, and it would be noticed, very noticed, if you tried.
Now if you want to skip 3-stage hydrogen bombs and just roll an atom bomb, still tough, but much more doable.
tl;dr: The nuclear powers would come down on you like a ton of bricks if a country even tried starting a program. See: Iran.
See Pakistan.
Shit can work out. Russia has plenty of peeps looking for seedy revenue streams
As much as this makes me hate Donald Trump more than I already did, which was already more than I hate almost anyone, the really horrific thing is that a decent fraction of Americans will look at this and think Trump made the right decision, or at least a brave, or reasonable, decision.
The only brave man in that room was zelensky.
True, but I don’t think it matters any more what they think. They are a cult, and we cannot salvage this situation by swaying them. We have to act accordingly. They just need to be mowed down if they get in the way.
I‘m trying to think of ways other than a civil war to salvage this situation but I’m coming up blank. Maybe someone more optimistic than me can chime in.
There is no reason to brainstorm optimistic outcomes. We can see what they are doing. It’s an authoritarian takeover, they are allies with Russia, and they are parroting all of the same things about Canada, that Putin was saying about Ukraine. Like there is no reason not to believe them. They are telling us exactly what the plan is. There has to be a civil war, or we are fucked. Canada should be helping the real Americans win their civil war. It’s in our interest to go down there and burn down the white house again.
I agree and it probably truly is the only option going forward. Let’s hope the left is sufficiently armed or you guys will live in a real life enactment of Handmaids Tale soon.
Well, don’t be a bitch about it, pull a Fort Sumter or shut it lmfao
I’m European. We have other wars to deal with right now, but I suggest you sort your shit out rather sooner than later.
“Peace deal” means surrender now, don’t join NATO, and get invaded again in a few years.
TBH idk how Zelenskyy thought things would go any differently.
I doubt he thought it would go differently. But he did an amazing job showing the world how utterly depraved Trump and Vance are. There can be no question now that they are Putin stooges. The United States lost the cold war, Putin won without firing a single bullet. It is out in the open.
He probably fired quite a few bullets, but I get you.
So word is that the more the US mistreats Z, the more the European people like him, and want to support him. So this was probably a great outcome fir them. The deal offered was very one sided. Had Z just not taken it, people would blame him. But now, everyone knows who to blame.
I understand you mean Zelenskyy, but you are using Russian dog whistles, by referring to him as Z. Z = the Russian version of calling people Nazis because they opposed Putin.
Tagged, and watching to see who you are. Especially with that extremely sus UN.
Z = the Russian version of calling people Nazis because they opposed Putin.
This is the first time I hear that, do you have any source?
All I know about “Z” and Russia is they used it to mark some of their divisions early in the war, and it later became a rallying sign for them, for supporting that same war and Putin. So quite the favorable thing for them, even if it’s used only in war propaganda.
Zelenskyj had every right to question Vance the way he did, but it wasn’t the right time to do so if he wanted their respect.
It was disrespectful. It hurts me to concede this point. I didn’t want it to be true but I had to see the cause for the fight breaking out, and I hate to admit that it was Zelenskyj who put Vance on the spot in front of everyone like he was on trial, and put him to shame. That’s not something you want to do when you’re trying to make a deal for your people.
Zelenskyj has too much of a backbone, unfortunately. Respect to him, for standing up against bullshit, but it was definitely a case of picking your battles.
OTOH, it’s possible he’s consciously splitting with the US in hopes of getting the EU with him. Long term, could be smart.
Wtf? Are you that cooked you just can’t swallow your US pride even when your leaders are this foul? Uncanny. Where is the line for you? What do you need before you are willing to write off something USA?
Wrote up a summary months ago (with reputable sources!) about this stuff, and was permabanned from Lemmy news and politics for it.
Idk man, you can tell people stuff, but it’s so hard for them to access what’s real right now. There’s a concerted online effort to suppress factual info.
Does that link lead to a “Server error” for anyone else?
hey! I remember you! I saved your whole comment.
your comment made me think something worse was on the way and made me start to prepare.
thanks!
Good, that is the point, I want people to be safe, stay alive, have food to eat and homes to live in. Take care!
The trouble is that this was probably intentional, you can see the vp is literally an attack dog in this case, but I still think it’s likely that if zelensky stroked trumps ego it wouldn’t have ended that way. It’s like trump is pro Russia but also narcissistic and they are sometimes at odds.
