No, allergies happen when the immune system detects innocuous substances as a threat. In this case, their metabolism has trouble breaking down the drugs in their gut so it can have unintended consequences for them. They can’t metabolize some organic structures in their livers or lungs as fast or as much as we do. And unfortunately, we don’t even know what the toxic dose is.
E: Jesus, downvoting legit pharmacology in favor of ideology. What a time to be alive.
Theoretically that’s possible, but what makes you think that cannabinoids wouldn’t have that effect on a cat? What evidence do you have of this?
I’ve had multiple cats in my life, and none of them have ever had any sort of adverse reaction to cannabis. Some may not like it, but that’s not really the same thing. And I’ve never heard of anyone reporting any sort of adverse reaction from any of their cats. I realize this is anecdotal, but still.
Even in human beings, a toxic dose of THC would far exceeded what any human could possibly consume (unless an ultra-mega-concentrate stronger than anything ever made were produced, perhaps). One would think the same would apply for a cat.
As for organic structures that don’t get metabolized, often they just get peed out. after all, that’s what happens with excess THC in humans that doesn’t get metabolized. That’s why you can detect it in a urinalysis.
Yes, and that’s a bit of a wrong assumption because cats don’t have the same enzymes we do, and even if they did, their physiology doesn’t allow for the same quantity of expression. For example, if a cleaving enzyme is anchored to the lumen of their liver, lungs, or kidneys, the surface area of those tissues may not be enough to reduce the concentration in the blood, If they have an alternate gene that does the same thing, it’s usually less effective or it could produce prodrugs that may be more toxic than the original. Also, the bioavailability of drugs largely depends on the route of exposure which is very short for cats because they have a shorter respiratory tract and the blood volume is magnitudes smaller.
In short, couple the rate of exposure with the volume of blood and a lower rate of metabolism, and your cat can reach higher levels of the drug in the blood than you’d expect more quickly. You can’t rely on what is toxic to humans to translate to another species and vice-versa or we’d have a lot more productive studies on mice.
As for the evidence, I’m sorry but I’m gonna have to outsource that to Consensus via ChatGPT which usually does a good job finding relevant science articles because I’m not well-versed in the literature. I hope it doesn’t bother you but I don’t have the time or energy to do it myself right now.
Behavioral Changes:
A case of a 6-year-old Persian cat exposed to marijuana smoke showed severe agitation, aggression, and alternating states of apathy and agitation. Blood tests confirmed the presence of delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) and its metabolites (Janeczek et al., 2018).
Neurological Symptoms: Exposure to cannabis can lead to neurological symptoms such as mydriasis (dilated pupils), altered consciousness, and behavioral changes, which can persist and require hospitalization (Brutlag & Hommerding, 2018).
Cardiovascular and Respiratory Effects:
Systemic Effects: Cannabis extract and THC can cause hypotension (low blood pressure), bradycardia (slow heart rate), and respiratory depression in cats, indicating significant systemic impact (Graham & Li, 1973).
Safety and Tolerability:
Dosing Studies: Research on escalating doses of THC and CBD in cats showed that high doses can lead to adverse events such as lethargy, ataxia (loss of control of body movements), and hypothermia. These effects are dose-dependent but are generally transient and resolve without medical intervention (Kulpa et al., 2021).
Veterinary Reports:
Incidence and Treatment: Surveys of veterinarians in North America indicate that cannabis toxicosis in pets, including cats, is increasingly reported, especially with the rising accessibility of cannabis products. Most cases are treated with outpatient monitoring and supportive care (Amissah et al., 2021).
The direct evidence is scant because of the legal limits on research. But the point is the type and extent of symptoms that these pets experience like hypothermia, hypotension, bradycardia, etc. that are alarming. Also, the rates of hospitalizations are increasing and that’s a huge danger sign now with legalization.
So, aside from your vagaries of comparative biochemistry and pharmacology which sound smart, but aren’t relevant to the topic, and a couple of citations from ChatGPT that basically say that the animals got high and were taken to be monitored when exposed to very high doses, you don’t actually have any evidence to support your claims that it’s “toxic”, which you directly admit.
In fact, the evidence you posted supports my claims that it behaves pretty much the same way it does in humans, aside from the fact that dosages should be adjusted for the body weight of a cat.
So, yeah. That’s why I don’t blow the smoke directly in my cat’s face because it’s too much. I blow it near him, so he can take hits at his own pace.
I’ll pretend your choice of words isn’t low-key confrontational and dismissive like every other comment on this site. I also hope that you’re replying in good faith and not just mocking me because you’re clinging to what you want to believe, and that I’m not the anti-pot boogeyman for replying with what you asked. We’re adults, right.
But I have some questions.
How are the pharmacokinetics not relevant to the conversation? Maybe to someone who knows pharma. But for everyone else, this is the context needed to realize how vastly different metabolic and physiological differences affect other species so that they don’t mistake thinking that “ultra-mega-concentrates” like you said are the only way to cause harm because that’s how humans behave. That tells me that you either don’t know much pharma or you’re vastly underplaying the effects, so I had to reel it in.
Also, just because I asked Consensus doesn’t devalue the research. Everything links back to the abstracts so please focus on those or link to your own. I know AI hate is wild here but, in this case, it’s accurate.
One of the hallmarks of drug poisoning is literally breathing suppression and hypothermia. When was the last time you felt that smoking pot? Are these symptoms not valid, do you have some other insight, or what’s going on?
evidence you posted supports my claims that it behaves pretty much the same way it does in humans
Read carefully. It does not.
dosages should be adjusted for the body weight of a cat
And how will you do that? There’s no therapeutic index. Not a single longitudinal study of cannabis consumption exists for pets to say that a few blows in their face depending on your mood that day won’t cause long-lasting harm. You’re gambling your cat’s health. As they say, lack of evidence is not evidence of absence. The first case is a great example of a cat showing extended periods of altered state far longer than they last in a human. It’s one night of rest for you vs two weeks of recovery for that cat at the vet, and that’s just an acute intoxication. And the fact that acute intoxication was even achieved in a cat is a clear sign there’s a lower tolerance for them.
And I will add that I find it contradictory that you demand evidence but simultaneously expose your pets despite the evidence and lack thereof.
So, two things unrelated to the actual topic being discussed.
I’ll pretend your choice of words isn’t low-key confrontational and dismissive like every other comment on this site
It’s entirely possible to be correct and do it in such a way that invites confrontation and dismissal.
If it seems like everyone apart from you is confrontational and dismissive, perhaps it’s time to consider additional perspectives on why that might be happening.
It doesn’t escape me, but what part of what I’ve said has invited confrontation or dismissal? I’m asking honestly. It’s grating that it keeps happening and I keep telling people to stop. Hyperbole aside, it’s frequent enough that I can see a pattern of people starting petty arguments trying to win and throwing low punches instead of clarifying what is being said and why. Like, I don’t even want to argue.
additional perspectives on why that might be happening
Meaning what, it’s also me? lol If I’m the one telling people to stop and act like adults and that gets 180° turns in behavior, what does that say to you?
It’s kind of baffling they are arguing exposing their cat to drugs is fine, for what? They can’t know that’s safe. Why take the risk? Might as well let them drink some wine while we are at it eh?
They are arguing on emotion more than anything. Nothing to do about that.
They’re allergic?
No, allergies happen when the immune system detects innocuous substances as a threat. In this case, their metabolism has trouble breaking down the drugs in their gut so it can have unintended consequences for them. They can’t metabolize some organic structures in their livers or lungs as fast or as much as we do. And unfortunately, we don’t even know what the toxic dose is.
E: Jesus, downvoting legit pharmacology in favor of ideology. What a time to be alive.
Theoretically that’s possible, but what makes you think that cannabinoids wouldn’t have that effect on a cat? What evidence do you have of this?
I’ve had multiple cats in my life, and none of them have ever had any sort of adverse reaction to cannabis. Some may not like it, but that’s not really the same thing. And I’ve never heard of anyone reporting any sort of adverse reaction from any of their cats. I realize this is anecdotal, but still.
Even in human beings, a toxic dose of THC would far exceeded what any human could possibly consume (unless an ultra-mega-concentrate stronger than anything ever made were produced, perhaps). One would think the same would apply for a cat.
As for organic structures that don’t get metabolized, often they just get peed out. after all, that’s what happens with excess THC in humans that doesn’t get metabolized. That’s why you can detect it in a urinalysis.
Yes, and that’s a bit of a wrong assumption because cats don’t have the same enzymes we do, and even if they did, their physiology doesn’t allow for the same quantity of expression. For example, if a cleaving enzyme is anchored to the lumen of their liver, lungs, or kidneys, the surface area of those tissues may not be enough to reduce the concentration in the blood, If they have an alternate gene that does the same thing, it’s usually less effective or it could produce prodrugs that may be more toxic than the original. Also, the bioavailability of drugs largely depends on the route of exposure which is very short for cats because they have a shorter respiratory tract and the blood volume is magnitudes smaller.
In short, couple the rate of exposure with the volume of blood and a lower rate of metabolism, and your cat can reach higher levels of the drug in the blood than you’d expect more quickly. You can’t rely on what is toxic to humans to translate to another species and vice-versa or we’d have a lot more productive studies on mice.
As for the evidence, I’m sorry but I’m gonna have to outsource that to Consensus via ChatGPT which usually does a good job finding relevant science articles because I’m not well-versed in the literature. I hope it doesn’t bother you but I don’t have the time or energy to do it myself right now.
Behavioral Changes:
Cardiovascular and Respiratory Effects:
Safety and Tolerability:
Veterinary Reports:
The direct evidence is scant because of the legal limits on research. But the point is the type and extent of symptoms that these pets experience like hypothermia, hypotension, bradycardia, etc. that are alarming. Also, the rates of hospitalizations are increasing and that’s a huge danger sign now with legalization.
So, aside from your vagaries of comparative biochemistry and pharmacology which sound smart, but aren’t relevant to the topic, and a couple of citations from ChatGPT that basically say that the animals got high and were taken to be monitored when exposed to very high doses, you don’t actually have any evidence to support your claims that it’s “toxic”, which you directly admit.
In fact, the evidence you posted supports my claims that it behaves pretty much the same way it does in humans, aside from the fact that dosages should be adjusted for the body weight of a cat.
So, yeah. That’s why I don’t blow the smoke directly in my cat’s face because it’s too much. I blow it near him, so he can take hits at his own pace.
I’ll pretend your choice of words isn’t low-key confrontational and dismissive like every other comment on this site. I also hope that you’re replying in good faith and not just mocking me because you’re clinging to what you want to believe, and that I’m not the anti-pot boogeyman for replying with what you asked. We’re adults, right.
But I have some questions.
How are the pharmacokinetics not relevant to the conversation? Maybe to someone who knows pharma. But for everyone else, this is the context needed to realize how vastly different metabolic and physiological differences affect other species so that they don’t mistake thinking that “ultra-mega-concentrates” like you said are the only way to cause harm because that’s how humans behave. That tells me that you either don’t know much pharma or you’re vastly underplaying the effects, so I had to reel it in.
Also, just because I asked Consensus doesn’t devalue the research. Everything links back to the abstracts so please focus on those or link to your own. I know AI hate is wild here but, in this case, it’s accurate.
One of the hallmarks of drug poisoning is literally breathing suppression and hypothermia. When was the last time you felt that smoking pot? Are these symptoms not valid, do you have some other insight, or what’s going on?
Read carefully. It does not.
And how will you do that? There’s no therapeutic index. Not a single longitudinal study of cannabis consumption exists for pets to say that a few blows in their face depending on your mood that day won’t cause long-lasting harm. You’re gambling your cat’s health. As they say, lack of evidence is not evidence of absence. The first case is a great example of a cat showing extended periods of altered state far longer than they last in a human. It’s one night of rest for you vs two weeks of recovery for that cat at the vet, and that’s just an acute intoxication. And the fact that acute intoxication was even achieved in a cat is a clear sign there’s a lower tolerance for them.
And I will add that I find it contradictory that you demand evidence but simultaneously expose your pets despite the evidence and lack thereof.
So, two things unrelated to the actual topic being discussed.
It’s entirely possible to be correct and do it in such a way that invites confrontation and dismissal.
If it seems like everyone apart from you is confrontational and dismissive, perhaps it’s time to consider additional perspectives on why that might be happening.
It doesn’t escape me, but what part of what I’ve said has invited confrontation or dismissal? I’m asking honestly. It’s grating that it keeps happening and I keep telling people to stop. Hyperbole aside, it’s frequent enough that I can see a pattern of people starting petty arguments trying to win and throwing low punches instead of clarifying what is being said and why. Like, I don’t even want to argue.
Meaning what, it’s also me? lol If I’m the one telling people to stop and act like adults and that gets 180° turns in behavior, what does that say to you?
It’s kind of baffling they are arguing exposing their cat to drugs is fine, for what? They can’t know that’s safe. Why take the risk? Might as well let them drink some wine while we are at it eh?
They are arguing on emotion more than anything. Nothing to do about that.