Dutch has a formal and informal 2nd person word (think “you” vs “thou”).
I have an intern who will not stop using the formal version, and it feels super awkward. I keep telling her to stop it, but she said she always uses with older people…
Fun fact about English, “you” was actually the more formal one. But since we don’t use “thou” anymore, and most people know it from old-timey speak and church, we think of it as more formal today.
Fun fact about Dutch: The informal is ‘jou/je’ and de formal is ‘u’, the last one, however, is pronounced like English ‘you’, the former is pronounced like old-time-english thou.
Do you mean je vs u? Could you tell me more about which would be appopriate in settings like a police control, a shop or a campsite? I’m learning dutch but still trying to grasp those things :)
Welcome to dutch, where there are more exceptions than rules, and the natives just ignore the rules anyway!
In general, “Je” is by far the most common form. Children use “u” with adult strangers, adults are generally only expected to use it with people in authority positions, but that’s becoming more and more rare. It’s still polite to use “u” with strangers, but nobody will be very upset if you don’t, unless you’re addressing a judge, mayor or your boss’s boss.
Some people address their grandparents formally, but most don’t. It’s still considered polite to use it with much older people, like 30+ years older, but hardly will be upset if you don’t.
Quite a few companies require customer-facing jobs always use “u”, to be respectful, but even that is getting less. My city sends me letters with “jij” nowadays.
German here, we have the same thing (du vs. sie). Our rules may be slightly different than dutch but probably similar enough.
Police: definitely formal unless the officer is someone you know privately.
Shop: usually formal though some hobby-related shops (think GameStop or board games) might prefer informal.
Campsite: probably informal
As a general rule of thumb: informal is used with first names, formal is used with last names. Think about which name you would use in English and go with that. If in doubt, use the formal version or ask.
I speak both german and dutch, and in my experience germans tend to use ‘sie’ in way more situations than the dutch. In my experience, germans also place more importance on titles (dr. Prof. Ir., etc), and older people can get riled up if you don’t address them with their titles, although it has gotten less.
In the Netherlands, I usually start with ‘u’ if I don’t know the older (60+ y.o., I’m late 20s) person yet, but I do listen if they tell me not to. Also the situation is important. For a job interview with someone clearly older than me, or if it’s a suit-and-tie sort of place, I would go formal. I agree with the above about the police/shop/campsite, altough most shops are also informal in the Netherlands.
Thanks, I’m a German native speaker myself - I tend to use je vs u in Dutch similar to the German du und Sie, but as the other replies indicate that seems to be a bit too formal in Dutch :)
That advice could also be harmful to your career. Being subservient like that will make sure that your boss will never see you as an equal as e.g. a potential successor
sir doesn’t sit well with me either for work positions, I say it to be nice sometimes, but not because you’re my boss. and if someone calls me sir, my response is " I’m not your sir, just call me …"
My grandpa told me “always call your boss sir, and respond “yes sir”, youll be promoted real quick.”
First day at my first job my boss tells me “by the way you don’t need to call me sir, just Brian”
Its actually insane that the world that boomers lived in was that simple.
Dutch has a formal and informal 2nd person word (think “you” vs “thou”).
I have an intern who will not stop using the formal version, and it feels super awkward. I keep telling her to stop it, but she said she always uses with older people…
She’s 23, I’m mid 30s. Ouch.
At least she doesn’t help you cross the street. Yet.
“Is your lunch soft enough? Should I cut it up for you? We have a blender back in the kitchen if you want?”
Fun fact about English, “you” was actually the more formal one. But since we don’t use “thou” anymore, and most people know it from old-timey speak and church, we think of it as more formal today.
Well, people in the past talked MUCH more formally than we do.
If I talked to my grandfather in 1400 the way I talk to my husband today, he’d probably disown me.
Fun fact about Dutch: The informal is ‘jou/je’ and de formal is ‘u’, the last one, however, is pronounced like English ‘you’, the former is pronounced like old-time-english thou.
You do those shenanigans in french too.
Super complicated with SO family though uhg.
Do you mean je vs u? Could you tell me more about which would be appopriate in settings like a police control, a shop or a campsite? I’m learning dutch but still trying to grasp those things :)
Welcome to dutch, where there are more exceptions than rules, and the natives just ignore the rules anyway!
In general, “Je” is by far the most common form. Children use “u” with adult strangers, adults are generally only expected to use it with people in authority positions, but that’s becoming more and more rare. It’s still polite to use “u” with strangers, but nobody will be very upset if you don’t, unless you’re addressing a judge, mayor or your boss’s boss.
Some people address their grandparents formally, but most don’t. It’s still considered polite to use it with much older people, like 30+ years older, but hardly will be upset if you don’t.
Quite a few companies require customer-facing jobs always use “u”, to be respectful, but even that is getting less. My city sends me letters with “jij” nowadays.
sounds kind of like je vs vous in french, not quite the same but used in a similar way
Funny thing, we actually call the calling someone jij tutoyeren and calling someone u vousvoyeren. This comes from the French.
Thank you, that’s definitely good to know!
German here, we have the same thing (du vs. sie). Our rules may be slightly different than dutch but probably similar enough.
Police: definitely formal unless the officer is someone you know privately.
Shop: usually formal though some hobby-related shops (think GameStop or board games) might prefer informal.
Campsite: probably informal
As a general rule of thumb: informal is used with first names, formal is used with last names. Think about which name you would use in English and go with that. If in doubt, use the formal version or ask.
I speak both german and dutch, and in my experience germans tend to use ‘sie’ in way more situations than the dutch. In my experience, germans also place more importance on titles (dr. Prof. Ir., etc), and older people can get riled up if you don’t address them with their titles, although it has gotten less.
In the Netherlands, I usually start with ‘u’ if I don’t know the older (60+ y.o., I’m late 20s) person yet, but I do listen if they tell me not to. Also the situation is important. For a job interview with someone clearly older than me, or if it’s a suit-and-tie sort of place, I would go formal. I agree with the above about the police/shop/campsite, altough most shops are also informal in the Netherlands.
Is that why Dutch people often get it wrong when to use “Du” or “Sie” if they’re speaking German? Because from my perspective that happens a lot.
I would assume so
Thanks, I’m a German native speaker myself - I tend to use je vs u in Dutch similar to the German du und Sie, but as the other replies indicate that seems to be a bit too formal in Dutch :)
“You need to keep phoning and sending letters to employers, they’ll give you a job eventually”.
Lump that in with the ‘apply in person’ crowd too.
Just walk in with your resume and and ask to see the manager so you can shake their hand…
Sir Brian of Work
That advice could also be harmful to your career. Being subservient like that will make sure that your boss will never see you as an equal as e.g. a potential successor
Unless you are in the military or a sex dungeon, I wouldn’t use “sir” these days. It’s a bit odd in everyday life as culture has changed, haha.
Last time I was in a sex dungeon I called my dom Sir Loin… turned out to be a Miss Steak
This is comedy gold where the heck is the recognition over here, can we get some recognition for this comment up here please!?
They didn’t. Some Boomers are also in the “just Brian” camp.
sir doesn’t sit well with me either for work positions, I say it to be nice sometimes, but not because you’re my boss. and if someone calls me sir, my response is " I’m not your sir, just call me …"
Maybe?
Al?
If you’ll be my bodyguard, I can be your long lost pal!
That’s how I see it too. It’s like a whimsical anachronism referencing a more formal era.