• philpo@feddit.orgEnglish
    4·
    2 days ago

    For everyone in the EU who bought their product within the last two years directly from Bambu Land or from a German reseller:

    Stay calm. There is a very highly probability that German customer protection laws will cover your asses - Bambu Lab EU is based in Frankfurt am Main, Germany, and German customer protection laws goes beyond EU rules and applies to you.

    I am currently working with three other enthusiasts, one being a lawyer -working in a different field, though- to clarify our options and will also talk to a customer protection agency.

    Short explanation:

    • German customer protection laws enable the customer of any online shop to “check” the sold product for 14d in a way they would check the product at a real world shop. The feature set and sales claims provided at this time do provide the base for finalization of the sale.

    • The seller (!= Manufacturer!) has to provide a warranty for two years - for 6 months the burden of prove that the fault was not present at the delivery falls towards the seller, for the remaining time to the buyer. As BL does communicate the chanhe openly this is not an issue.

    • BL furthermore claims that some uses fall outside the “intended use”. This is completely irrelevant - that is only relevant if they claim that they cannot provide warranty due to use outside the intended use. They still cannot reduce the feature set.

    • Which holds more merit is the claim of BL that they are reducing a side feature/unintended feature. This explanation has, in the past, been used a few times in court successfully,but lately it has not been accepted anymore - even App connections for cars have been deemed a “base feature” that might play a significant role in choosing a car. It especially has not merit in cases when this defence is used to force a user to give up their (sensitive) data.

    • BL also has a five year update policy in their TOS (which is mostly invalid otherwise,though) - and blocking users from updating if they don’t want to loose features and give up data is also very likely a breach of contract.

    • There are also GDPR and market law implications that need to be considered.

    What does that all mean? What can happen in the end?

    It is highly unlikely that this proceedings can change the course of BL - these companies don’t give a fuck. But it might force them to basically reverse the sale (you would need to pay them for the actual use, though - but that is miniscule). Of course BL can also close their office in the EU and try to only sell from outside the EU - but that will put a very large crosshair on their back in terms of customs and taxes.

    I keep you updated.

    Update 21/01/25 Spoke with a customer protection associations lawyer for a short time, the longer answer will follow later. Few key facts:

    • The fact that you once could use external tools and control while using cloud connection as well and soon cannot do this anymore is a relevant feature change, that it might affect the base of the sale. Developer mode is not a full replacement for that.

    • There are some other issues with Bambu Lab policies, especially their return policies, that will be looked into as they directly contradict German law.

      • philpo@feddit.orgEnglish
        1·
        3 days ago

        The updated blog post does change the legal position they have maneuvered themselves in within the EU.

        Also,they are basically lying in their post:

        We want to make it absolutely clear that all of these claims are entirely false: Bambu Lab will remotely disable your printer (“brick” it). Firmware updates will block your printer’s ability to print.

        While:

        Due to the importance of these updates, your product may block new print job before the updates is installed, and will immediately provide update notifications to help you understand the related information.

        (TOS 7.4)

        Additionally the required certificates of course have a expiry date and after that you won’t be able to connect outside of developer mode.

        Legally, they are also in hot water with their “no support” developer mode at least within the EU. First of all they can’t remove support for functions that were present at the time of the sale. Additionally denying support within the warranty period for use that is within the normal use even if developer modes,etc. are used is considered illegal - they can ask Samsung, Google and Sony about their experience in court for those cases, they all failed.

  • Nightsoul@lemmy.worldEnglish
    3·
    4 days ago

    Lol knew it was only a matter of time before bambu did something stupid. Always had a funny feeling about them in the back of my head, like too good to be true.

    • Zetta@mander.xyzEnglish
      32·
      3 days ago

      Never go proprietary when great open source alternatives exist, honestly people who bought Bambu deserve what they’re gonna get.

  • Itdidnttrickledown@lemmy.worldEnglish
    1·
    3 days ago

    I haven’t look at their hardware so I don’t know if you can flash custom firmware but at the very least you could buy a new board and kick them to the curb.

    • Venator@lemmy.nzEnglish
      1·
      3 days ago

      The current firmware has a lan only mode that the new firmware will now require a cloud based login to work. So if you already own one the best option is to turn lan only mode on and block it from the Internet from your router firewall, and uninstall bambu handy™️ and bambu studio™️ and use orca slicer instead.

      I assume it will still be able to print from the SD card with the new firmware but not sure, haven’t looked into that yet.

  • Omega_Jimes@lemmy.caEnglish
    2·
    3 days ago

    If they ever advertised a use case for it, then took that use case away, they can be sued. My most recent memory if the class action against Sony when they dropped Linux support on the PS3.

    • Blue_Morpho@lemmy.worldEnglish
      1·
      3 days ago

      A lawsuit would be the cost of doing business. They’ll raise prices by $10 to make up the loss. For reference, Sony sold 87.4 million PS3’s at a $500 each. That’s $43 Billion dollars. Sony had to pay a grand total of $3.75 million to settle the suit. That’s 0.007% of sales.

  • binom@lemmy.worldEnglish
    2·
    4 days ago

    thank you for making me aware of this, and thank fuck for louis rossman. no idea how we deserve that guy. as a new BL printer owner, I just opened a complaint on their websites support portal, as advised by this reddit post

  • Snapz@lemmy.worldEnglish
    1·
    4 days ago

    Do they really think they are that mainstream now that they can pull the “fuck you” switch? You’re still almost exclusively patronized by the people that can actually read and think, bambu. Your customer will decidedly act against your broken business now. Enjoy.

    This is Reddit, but if you want to hear from the asshole making decisions and see their username. https://www.reddit.com/r/BambuLab/comments/zmz8vv/i_am_dr_ye_tao_ceo_of_bambu_lab_ask_me_anything/

  • ikidd@lemmy.worldEnglish
    1·
    4 days ago

    In another thread on this enshittification, someone pointed out a similiar enclosed CoreXY brand, Qidi, that just runs FOSS Klipper. Looked very comparable, with the upcoming generation looking to have an AMS-like multifilament feeder.

    Seems like most of the models include a chamber heater for better prints, especially on ABS which I’d given up on without a heater. Comes with brass nozzle for regular filaments, and a steel nozzle for CF filaments. This has replaced the Bambu on my wishlist.

    https://qidi3d.com/products/qidi-x-max-3

    Owner testimonial: https://a.lemmy.world/lemmy.world/comment/14514530

    • dual_sport_dork 🐧🗡️@lemmy.worldEnglish
      1·
      4 days ago

      That was me!

      I think. Your link doesn’t appear to go to the comment in question, or else I am blind. (Either is possible.) I just finished a large drawer shell print with my X-Max 3 mere minutes ago, in fact.

  • Flatfire@lemmy.caEnglish
    1·
    4 days ago

    Well this is… disappointing. I picked up an A1 at the end of last year because it “just works”, and I was tired of fighting my Ender 3 instead of actually printing with it. I’m extraordinarily happy with the quality of the printer itself, but I’ll be refraining from updating the firmware I guess, as I don’t allow it to use cloud services, and it lives on my LAN as the only means of management.

  • UNY0N@lemmy.worldEnglish
    1·
    4 days ago

    Prusa for the win yet again. I recently upgraded to MK4, and the thing just keeps. On. Going. Great customer support. They work with 3rd party suppiers instead of against them. Worth every cent.

    • myplacedk@lemmy.worldEnglish
      0·
      4 days ago

      I care. I bought Bambu anyway, because there’s a LAN only option. I enabled it today. I am also not going to upgrade firmware.

      • Blue_Morpho@lemmy.worldEnglish
        01·
        4 days ago

        I’ve been considering a Bambu until today. From what I learned today, there is no Lan only option. It now must connect to their servers to let you print. They also said they will disable your ability to print if you don’t upgrade the firmware.

  • bluewing@lemm.eeEnglish
    0·
    4 days ago

    This is a risk with any item that requires software to function. Companies can change software licensees, lock-in buyers, and even open source can flat out abandon a project.

    I just bought a Bambu Mini to sit along side my trusty 6 year old Mk3s+ and this pisses me off to no end. I was expecting my mini to simply be abandoned rather than suffer a lock-in AND then abandonment. So, I guess I won’t be updating my firmware nor will I run anything through their cloud. I was thinking of uploading a few designs to their cloud. But that ain’t going to happen now.

    • curiouschipmunk@lemmy.worldEnglish
      0·
      4 days ago

      To comment on one of your points, something that gets lost when people learn about open source (at least most traditional licenses): nobody can change the license of something that was released so you have the option to fix it yourself or hire someone else to do it for you. While it’s incredibly powerful thing to have, many people only look at open source as “free (as in beer) stuff with free support”. Thing is, even if there’s no chance in earth you’ll fix it yourself, it’s likely someone out there who’s in the same situation will do it and make available for others. Key here is having popular and open enough hardware that people can replace or the software completely or keep its development (if open).

      As open source printers go, you can always use the parts to convert it to a different printer but that requires tinkering. Perhaps this move will piss off enough some Bambu users that they’ll make the switch away from the “I just want something that works” mindset into tinkers.