Take your pick — There’s a whole world of insults that don’t involve punching down at marginalised groups. I realise that may sound hyperbolic, but I say it because I’m someone who is sometimes the recipient of that slur, and it’s jarring to see it in spaces like this. I know that in this case, it wasn’t at me, but a key part of why insults like this carry weight is because of the comparison it makes to people like me (even if only implicitly).
My hope is that we might be more creative with our insults when solidarity is our best weapon against these assholes
That being said, most people don’t know how to throw a punch. To the degree that many people need to be told not to hold their thumbs in their fist. They aren’t concerned with the collateral damage, to themselves or otherwise - they’re just throwing the punch.
I’m not saying it’s right, but this is the reality. These people have never been trained to recognize the value of articulating themselves correctly, or maybe they have but they’ve been in the monkey pit for so long that they just learned how to fling shit as a defense mechanism.
I don’t think you’re wrong in advocating for the abolishment of certain words, or rather the uses of those words. I do think you’re pissin in the wind, though.
I’m watching the shows “Life on Mars” and “Ashes to Ashes”, both of which prominently display modern sensibilities in the 70’s and 80’s, respectably.
It’s very easy to hear the problem youre describing if one can’t see/hear it in the modern context. The amount of casual racism, sexism, misogyny, homophobia, ableism. (Hard ableism, as in a deaf kid gets treated as if they were mentally disabled.)
Oh yeah, I can imagine; I feel like I would cringe if I rewatched those shows (especially as I was less visibly disabled back when I watched them the first time, and so hadn’t experienced random ableist slurs directed at me by strangers on the street).
Whenever someone mentions that the 70s and 80s were 40-50 years ago, I usually feel uncomfortable at the inexorable passage of time and my place within it; however when I consider how far we’ve come since then though, across many different domains, I feel slightly heartened — when the reality is that progress happens a trickle at a time, I feel less small and overwhelmed at my own capacity to make change happen.
I don’t know if you realised, but I’m not talking about shows from the 70’s and 80’s, but of shows which are from 2006 and 2008 and which have the main character be of that modern era and then experience the 70’s/80’s through the lens of someone from ~2007.
Yeah I was born in the 80’s, I definitely know that feel. My brain still defaults to calculating things as if it were 2000. “The 70’s? That’s 30 years ago.”
No, no, I know what you mean. I can see how my phrasing was confusing though. I watched the shows you mentioned when they first came out, but I think that I would cringe far more today than I did back then. Ignorance is bliss (for those privileged enough to be ignorant)
That’s like you arguing that the n-word isn’t a slur because it derives from “a definition”, a colour. Or more accurately a euphemism for the n-word would be non-offensive per your logic.
In the context of talking about people, that word has everything to do with the people who it has been used as a slur against, including, but not limited to “mentally handicapped”.
OP was clearly using the phrase as a derogatory term for people, and the only dictionary sense that fits there is the one that has ableist allusions. If the context of use were different, we wouldn’t be having this conversation. For example, I wouldn’t have a problem with the phrase “The PCM responds by retarding ignition timing—either until the knock disappears, or until maximum spark retard is reached.” or “The Friar’s alibi finds him at the right place but always a moment in retard”.
That you’re taking such a literal reading here makes me wonder whether your comment was made in bad faith such that I shouldn’t bother wasting my time, but I’m hoping that there could actually be some meaningful dialogue here (after all, there’s a reason why I didn’t just report OP and move on). It might not affect your opinion, but I have direct experience of the r-slur that has been directed at me (not infrequently) when I am people read visibly disabled. I’m not “mentally handicapped”, but as a word, it has grown far beyond it’s original context of use. I say this to give context on my original comment — I’m not just going about tone policing people for fun: I commented what I did because it hurts to see that word thrown at people when part of what makes it effective as an insult is its attachment to people like me.
Once upon a time, the r-slur was actually considered one of the more appropriate words to describe people who are intellectually disabled. If I were alive in that era, I’d have likely been left to rot in an institution, and allowed only a fraction of the independence I’m able to have nowadays. But times change, and so does our understanding of the baggage that words pick up.
To draw an analogy, it wouldn’t be appropriate to call a black person the n-word, on the basis that it derives from the Spanish word for “black”. That etymology isn’t wrong, but it’s still missing the forest for the trees.
It would be great if you could avoid using ableist slurs to refer to people you don’t like
How else should you describe them?
Take your pick — There’s a whole world of insults that don’t involve punching down at marginalised groups. I realise that may sound hyperbolic, but I say it because I’m someone who is sometimes the recipient of that slur, and it’s jarring to see it in spaces like this. I know that in this case, it wasn’t at me, but a key part of why insults like this carry weight is because of the comparison it makes to people like me (even if only implicitly).
My hope is that we might be more creative with our insults when solidarity is our best weapon against these assholes
I understand what you’re saying, and I agree.
That being said, most people don’t know how to throw a punch. To the degree that many people need to be told not to hold their thumbs in their fist. They aren’t concerned with the collateral damage, to themselves or otherwise - they’re just throwing the punch.
I’m not saying it’s right, but this is the reality. These people have never been trained to recognize the value of articulating themselves correctly, or maybe they have but they’ve been in the monkey pit for so long that they just learned how to fling shit as a defense mechanism.
I don’t think you’re wrong in advocating for the abolishment of certain words, or rather the uses of those words. I do think you’re pissin in the wind, though.
I’m watching the shows “Life on Mars” and “Ashes to Ashes”, both of which prominently display modern sensibilities in the 70’s and 80’s, respectably.
It’s very easy to hear the problem youre describing if one can’t see/hear it in the modern context. The amount of casual racism, sexism, misogyny, homophobia, ableism. (Hard ableism, as in a deaf kid gets treated as if they were mentally disabled.)
Oh yeah, I can imagine; I feel like I would cringe if I rewatched those shows (especially as I was less visibly disabled back when I watched them the first time, and so hadn’t experienced random ableist slurs directed at me by strangers on the street).
Whenever someone mentions that the 70s and 80s were 40-50 years ago, I usually feel uncomfortable at the inexorable passage of time and my place within it; however when I consider how far we’ve come since then though, across many different domains, I feel slightly heartened — when the reality is that progress happens a trickle at a time, I feel less small and overwhelmed at my own capacity to make change happen.
I don’t know if you realised, but I’m not talking about shows from the 70’s and 80’s, but of shows which are from 2006 and 2008 and which have the main character be of that modern era and then experience the 70’s/80’s through the lens of someone from ~2007.
Yeah I was born in the 80’s, I definitely know that feel. My brain still defaults to calculating things as if it were 2000. “The 70’s? That’s 30 years ago.”
No, no, I know what you mean. I can see how my phrasing was confusing though. I watched the shows you mentioned when they first came out, but I think that I would cringe far more today than I did back then. Ignorance is bliss (for those privileged enough to be ignorant)
It’s not a slur as much as it’s a definition. To be retarded means delayed or slow. It has nothing to do with mentally handicapped people.
It’s a euphemism from the 60’s, saying “mentally retarded” instead of “moron”, “imbecile” or “idiot”, which were actual medical terms. https://www.merriam-webster.com/wordplay/moron-idiot-imbecile-offensive-history
That’s like you arguing that the n-word isn’t a slur because it derives from “a definition”, a colour. Or more accurately a euphemism for the n-word would be non-offensive per your logic.
This my friends is a distinction without a difference.
In the context of talking about people, that word has everything to do with the people who it has been used as a slur against, including, but not limited to “mentally handicapped”.
OP was clearly using the phrase as a derogatory term for people, and the only dictionary sense that fits there is the one that has ableist allusions. If the context of use were different, we wouldn’t be having this conversation. For example, I wouldn’t have a problem with the phrase “The PCM responds by retarding ignition timing—either until the knock disappears, or until maximum spark retard is reached.” or “The Friar’s alibi finds him at the right place but always a moment in retard”.
That you’re taking such a literal reading here makes me wonder whether your comment was made in bad faith such that I shouldn’t bother wasting my time, but I’m hoping that there could actually be some meaningful dialogue here (after all, there’s a reason why I didn’t just report OP and move on). It might not affect your opinion, but I have direct experience of the r-slur that has been directed at me (not infrequently) when I am people read visibly disabled. I’m not “mentally handicapped”, but as a word, it has grown far beyond it’s original context of use. I say this to give context on my original comment — I’m not just going about tone policing people for fun: I commented what I did because it hurts to see that word thrown at people when part of what makes it effective as an insult is its attachment to people like me.
Once upon a time, the r-slur was actually considered one of the more appropriate words to describe people who are intellectually disabled. If I were alive in that era, I’d have likely been left to rot in an institution, and allowed only a fraction of the independence I’m able to have nowadays. But times change, and so does our understanding of the baggage that words pick up.
To draw an analogy, it wouldn’t be appropriate to call a black person the n-word, on the basis that it derives from the Spanish word for “black”. That etymology isn’t wrong, but it’s still missing the forest for the trees.