I think it’s fair to say that ketamine may be affecting his faculties, but this is dipping it’s toe into “the drugs make him do it!” sanewashing.
Drugs don’t make people assholes. They were assholes before they took the drugs, and the drugs emphasise what an asshole they are.
As the saying goes “sober thoughts, drunk words”
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more like drunk fucks sober sexuality
Drunk words, ketamine actions?
People have been known to change personalities and become like that after serious brain injuries. Not uncommon for such people to become right wing.
I don’t know much about ketamines effect on the brain…
I have a running theory that the reason celebs like telia tequila and Kanye suddenly veer so hard to crazy town is brain damaged caused by overdose/suicide and being clinically deaad + sent to weird brainwashing rehab facilities
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Isn’t that a porn movie?
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Good porn. Highly recommend it.
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Tila had a stroke and became a bathsit right winger, much like sorbo who had a stroke and becomes a nutty Christian
Probably takes cocaine and he does drink alcohol too
As a very wise person once told me about acid, it doesn’t change you as much as it makes you more like yourself.
Put an A-hole down the K-hole and guess what comes out the other end?
Idk acid just makes me giggly and forget what I was saying because I saw a cool pattern on the wall. Don’t think it changes your personality that much
Could be the dose, but LSD is far more than just visual. If you take certain meds (I think SSRIs might be one), it can significantly dull the experience as well.
I’m not sure I would say it personally changed me, but I can 100% understand how that could be possible. LSD is no joke.
Maybe if i took it solo it would be a different experience, but I’ve only done it in group settings where we’re just having fun so no real introspective thoughts occurred. (Biggest dose was around 300mcg)
Yeah, I once had similar “just tripping with friends” plans, but this is back when you had no idea about dosage and we each took 2 hits.
I assure you, “no real introspective thoughts” was not an option that day/night lol… In fact, I remember trying to fight it early on (before just saying fuck it and letting go), and boy did it make me uncomfortable. Probably the most dysphoric I have ever felt. It was like “look at me, I am the captain now.”
I wouldn’t call it a bad trip per se, but it was certainly difficult.
Honestly, after reading about some of the similar psychedelics that were floating around at the time, I wouldn’t be surprised if it was DOM or something similar. The trip lasted like 18 hours lol. It was the wild west back then.
Ye our trips also lasted about 12 to 14h before it let us sleep. But we also had other stuff and booze to keep the thoughts away
On higher doses, it can really break down the wall that makes you YOU into individual bricks. Seeing yourself, your actions, passions, and interpersonal relationships from a third person perspective isn’t something you can come back from without some sort of change.
And assholes with too much money are a special brand of assholes.
I’m gonna tap the sign.
(The Drug User’s Bible, by Dominic Milton Trott)
Do not let Elon Musk own ketamine. It is a valid depression treatment.
Well…it’s found to effective at halting the immediate effects of severe depression. In other words, it’s just enough to stop someone from going suicidal or worse. It has NOT been shown to be a good candidate for long-term use in treating general depression in anyone, in fact, there’s a larger nunber of studies correlating Ketamine abuse with mental defect than showing it useful in a medical capacity.
There’s a huge difference between those two things. Here’s a study that only looked at previous records (no conflict of interest in new study targets) : https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8972190/
Well…it’s found to effective at halting the immediate effects of severe depression. In other words, it’s just enough to stop someone from going suicidal or worse. It has NOT been shown to be a good candidate for long-term use in treating general depression in anyone, in fact, there’s a larger nunber of studies correlating Ketamine abuse with mental defect than showing it useful in a medical capacity.
That, and with the resources available to someone like Elon, I am sure he has some personal doctor giving him regular recreational access if he wants to.
That being said, the article is a bit sensationalist. It shouldn’t be ruled out as a contributing factor, but Elon has basically always had that confused arsehole streak to his character.
Correct. However, it is effective in the short term, which makes its short term use valid. Occasional recreational use is also valid. I feel psychedelics are a better option in most cases. Elon Musk has chosen to use ketamine chronically–carelessness in, carelessness out. He shouldn’t be the face of ketamine. I’m rightfully concerned about the demonization of ketamine due to these headlines, when the only thing that should be demonized is Musk.
Musk is the same person who said homelessness is a propaganda word for useless drug addicts. Anti-drug sentiment is a dangerous radical right ideology. People must remember this when discussing this subject. I’ve seen comments on many posts relating to politicians and drug use with an inherently negative stance on drugs, particularly with Musk, which is my reason for tapping the sign. The articles themselves often have an anti-drug bias, and I feel that’s showing itself here a little.
Keep discourse in good faith.
Lobotomies also are effective in the short and long term for stopping suicide.
I think it’s perfectly fine to push back on drugs and procedures when we are currently only in the present to excuse it away as effective enough to get the outcomes we want.
It does not mean they are safe or should be promoted.If it’s legitimately harming brain chemistry and has a similar effect to long term brain damage why is it OK other than because it accomplished a goal of getting other people to mumble that they can’t kill themselves and its seen as a victory.
Cautionary discourse and open about the possible negatives are how we move forward.
Demanding only positive and happy conversation around drug use is also radical and dangerous.Don’t pretend it’s bad faith when it’s just against your own interests and beliefs.
Comparing an accepted prescription drug to a surgery that involves literally physically and permanently disfiguring the brain is nothing short of outrageous.
You are claiming I am openly portraying drugs as entirely safe to use for any purpose, which is a great insult to me and the people I am trying to help. This is a ludicrously irrational argument, and I suggest you delete your comment before you make a fool of yourself.
A lobotomy was a recognized and approved medical procedure. Within a few years in the late 1940s 10s of thousands of procedures were done.
The person who discovered the procedure won a Nobel prize for Medicine for how it helped people with psychosis.
How is it not related?
Because this is a chemical that alters brain chemistry instead?Would you prefer I state electroshock therapy? Insulin shock? Malarial?
Those last 2 are using compounds instead of physical means.My point stands that just because it is used in the medical field does not being and end the argument of safety and efficiency. Opiods are considered safe until you have to stop taking them and now we are pushing against the prescription and use of them.
You clearly have a specific predetermined opinion on the matter that makes you insulary from having to accept that their are differing opinions on the matter.
Your threat to my appearance does not diminsh my statement it just proves your bias.Being open towards the use of drugs does not mean they are free of criticism and should not be used sparingly as the world may yet change on its opionion of the costs of their use yet.
This is not to say people can not take what helps but helping is not always good or an answer long term.1.618033989…
You’ve chosen… poorly.
I don’t even know why I’m bothering typing this. It won’t change your opinion. You are a troll, and I’m speaking to a phantom. I haven’t even heard of some of these medical procedures, but whatever. Fine. School day it is, then.
A lobotomy was a recognized and approved medical procedure. Within a few years in the late 1940s 10s of thousands of procedures were done. The person who discovered the procedure won a Nobel prize for Medicine for how it helped people with psychosis.
This is true. Combined with how slavery was only just recently abolished, and segregation is still the norm, it goes to show how incredibly innovative the United States was throughout its history.
How is it not related?
I don’t know, why is vitamin B12 not related? I just discovered that large doses treat dissociation.
Because this is a chemical that alters brain chemistry instead?
Yes.
Would you prefer I state electroshock therapy?
No, I’d prefer you state something relevant. Speaking of, here’s the two other operations mentioned in the history section of the lobotomy Wikipedia page that you looked at, that involve a compound.
Insulin shock?
Insulin. Insulin. That is a fucking hormone. Insulin is a hormone. Granted, that is a compound, and comparing a hormone to a narcotic is insane, but fine. At least we aren’t slandering HRT because of insulin shock.
Malarial?
Here’s one I’ve definitely never heard of. A quick read reveals it’s the process of using plasmodium to cause malaria, which causes a rise in body temperature, which then, in turn, mitigates other diseases. The malaria is then given treatment. I’ve never heard of something so stupid in all my years, but I’m still trying to find the compound invo–no. No, that’s impossible. The compound involved isn’t…
FUCKING EUKARYOTES!?
Since I’ve already lost so many brain cells, why not add some gasoline to the mix? Let me go sniff some real quick…done.
My point
Objection–you do not have a point, you have a mouth.
Just because it is used in the medical field does not being and end the argument of safety and efficiency.
Strawman.
Opiods are considered safe until you have to stop taking them…
Opiods [sic] is a weird way to spell benzodiazepines. Now, I’ve already torn your incorrect “opinion” to shreds, and now I’m literally giving you an argument against me, over a point that was never made.
You clearly have a specific predetermined opinion on the matter
That implies I was never anti-drug. I was. I supported banning all of them, and incarcerating all who ever used them. I was a Trump supporter. I vocally defended the cop that murdered George Floyd, blaming the fentanyl as everyone did. Point is, my mind has already changed, and what you’re doing is actually trying to unchange my mind.
The only one with a predetermined opinion on the matter is you, you Nixonite.
Your threat to my appearance does not diminsh my statement it just proves your bias.
My parents said the same thing when I warned them that voting for Trump was a stupid idea. Your strawman arguments don’t diminsh [sic] my statement, it only proves your bias.
Being open towards the use of drugs does not mean they are free of criticism
I still don’t know why this is being said, because I never said drugs are free of criticism. You are replying to a thread that is literally me replying to a comment mentioning ketamine’s dangers with frequent use, saying “correct”. What was that about bias, again?
This is not to say people can not take what helps but helping is not always good or an answer long term.
This is your first correct statement. Right at the end, too! A broken clock is right once a day. I use 24-hour time, sorry. Short end of the stick, sometimes.
All in all, I have had more intelligent debates on Reddit. I highly recommend you work for the Trump administration, they could use your mindset, conflating rationality and brazen emotional-esque response. And, like I said before:
Delete your comment, before you make a (further) fool of yourself.
You are replying to a thread that is literally me replying to a comment mentioning ketamine’s dangers with frequent use, saying “correct”. What was that about bias, again?
However, it _is_ effective in the short term, which makes its short term use valid. Occasional recreational use is also valid.
I’m the troll and yet you won’t engage in an actual discussion? You are moment to moment demanding that everything you have said is correct or not understanding my point and yet you are wrong about so much, but won’t engage to find out so.
You are acting with blatant superiority and pedantry on each individual word I say. You don’t respond as if it’s a conversation just a stomping ground for your ego.
Look at how you communicate and how you process to act like a singular source of truth in this world. It’s appalling and yet you act as if it’s correct because you are the one doing it.
Yes, slaver y and lots of things would later go on to be considered a bad method for accomplishing goals. That is my point on overly relying on drugs when especially there is already evidence as with Ketamine that it’s damaging to the body.
Insulin shock was a way of treating psychosis and so was giving people malaria to give them a fever strong enough to damage the brain. You don’t understand the points being made so you act like you are better informed when you respond with nonsense. Look at all your own smarmy interjections as if they validate you more.
You aren’t as informed as you think you are and you aren’t solo in deciding what is good in this world. Other people can have opinions and knowledge you don’t.
My mother took ketamine on a medical prescription and it ruined her body. She had to get physical therapy to use her hands again to be able to pick up objects.
Stop being a jerk that thinks they are superior and swaps to whatever opinion let’s them talk down to others.
You may have changed your mind but you clearly haven’t stopped being rude and dismissive of others.
I don’t care about who you were and it’s unnecessary in this conversation you bring it up as a shield to deflect that you are being a jerk here and now.
Valid treatments are abused all the time…
Ket is abused all the time.
Musk isn’t taking it therapeuticly, he’s taking it recreationally to dissociate from a reality where he’s a giant asshole everyone hates and makes fun.
Two completely different uses
Growing up the son of a wealthy emerald-mine owning dysfunctional family in apartheid South Africa explains a lot of his behavior too.
And grandson of the head of the “technocracy” party in Canada: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joshua_N._Haldeman
I mean, that dude died when he was 3. It is possible his views were passed onto his mother, but.
Ketamine, like any drug, should be thoroughly researched. Whether good, bad, or mixed, the knowledge would be useful.
In any case, I think that being wealthy is the most dangerous drug of all. It frees you from the consequences of your actions. Being invulnerable from society, prevents you from knowing what it means to be harmed. It is why rich folks tend to be assholes, since they don’t understand the reality of being human. They are more akin to space aliens or dragons.
…at this point, excessive wealth is something I believe to be a drug that harms society, not individuals.
Ketamine, like any drug, should be thoroughly researched.
Hey man, go easy on him. He’s researching it as hard as he can, while balancing other responsibilities, like running DOGE. Have you ever tried working for the federal government with a cranium full of ketamine? It’s not as easy as he makes it look.
He balances ketamine with cocaine and alcohol
There’s an insane amount of research into ketamine. That’s why they literally use it regularly to sedate children.
It’s very safe and well tolerated. This shit isn’t about ketamine.
There’s a big difference between anesthetic use and recreational abuse tho.
There isn’t much study on recreational abuse and the few that exist are very damning, from neurotoxicity to straight up brain lacerations. Of course this needs more studying but theres very real chance K abuse has real damage.
I think it’s important to quantify what “recreational abuse” means, because the drug itself is pretty self-limiting in that you will k-hole and be unable to take more (unless administered to you like Matthew Perry) for at least an hour.
It’s more about frequency, and there’s a huge gradient between recreational use, and abuse… But yes, I think it should be self-evident that it can be harmful if you have a psychological addiction and believe you cannot function without it. It can fuck up your bladder, that’s for certain, and I wouldn’t be surprised at all if abuse at a high enough level could cause brain lesions or whatever (though I haven’t looked into this in years, last time I did, the research was far from conclusive).
I suppose it’s possible that Musk has brain lesions or whatever, from ketamine use, but it seems pretty unlikely. The behavior he is showing is not the type of behavior that is ever attributed to ketamine, and anyone who’s taken it could tell you that.
They gave my cat ket before they euthanized her. She looked absolutely blissful, but certainly in no fit state to run a government.
I mean this in the nicest way, but your cat would make an excellent replacement for the current governor.
Lenny’s Cat 2028
LENNY’S CAT! LENNY’S CAT! LENNY’S CAT!
Hell I’d make a dead cat leader of DOGE over the current one
Is this what “dead cat bounce” means?
Who cares what the cause of the behavior is? It is unacceptable.
That should be enough. No need to even try to explain of empathize with it.
But it is telling that the richest man in the history of mankind acts like this. People should see that wealth does not equate to strength, intelligence, good politics, etc. But instead people see wealth as a way to get away with anything they want, even if it is completely embarrassing stuff that no one with self respect would even think about.
Very true. Fuck the rich
I believe it would be worth to research it. Similar to research into serial killers and other “unwanted” neurotypes we should try to learn how we can prevent people becoming like this and prevent becoming their victims
Being a massive shithead also explains a lot of it. Including the drug use.
I have a lot of ketamine users in my town and many highly functioning ones and it’s very clear that the drug has long tail disassociative effects. They are so disconnected and zombie like despite seemingly functional.
I say this as a psychonaut myself - long term K use is pretty scary but people are afraid to shit on K because if not abused it’s seems to have a lot of powerful positive effects on many.
Life is literally an exercise in balance and homeostasis. Too much of anything is almost always bad in the long term.
when you get the message, hang up the phone
Yeah I mean, water and oxygen can both kill you in high enough amounts.
My mother had to take it for a nerve condition and it fucked her up. Ruined parts of her nervous system and she required physical therapy to be able to grasp objects again.
She has now been in several car accidents since cause she goes into hazes and acts differently. I’m not sure it has good side effects other than being an incredibly strong tranquilizer and disassociative.
Lots of drugs are considered highly by their users but this one seems to have some pretty rough sides to make it sound at all positive to me.
People are too hard on drugs. Drugs are great. the ketamine might be helping for all we know. It’s money and feeling unwanted as a child that has caused this man’s brain damage.
You can see the insecure little boy in him so much. Him and Joe Rogan. They are so obviously doing everything in themselves to have some confidence but not even millions and billions of dollars can fill that hole of abandonment.
Right, no one does the amount of steroids Joe Rogan does without having a severe case of body dysmorphia or something similar
Unfortunately it’s something as banal as height. He’s 5’8, same size as ben shapiro.
As a 5’6" man…is 5’8" supposed to be short or something 0_0
Isn’t anything under 6 feet short?
Only to a pillow princess
T_T
Little boy feels unwanted.
Little boy commits to getting rich and successful so he’ll feel wanted.
Little boy achieves success.
Little boy finds out the money prevents him from forming any meaningful relationships.
The world burns.
Yeah sad to see so many people here make the same error that the US (and most of the world) did regarding cannabis for 80+ years.
Stop falling for propaganda like this.
The dose makes the poison. I have seen people go from helped by prescription adderall to completely paranoid and detached from reality at high doses.
It can be both bad for him at his dosages and good for others, and I think most people here have understood that, though maybe I’m being optimistic
I’m currently taking 80mg ketamine troches and can verify that I am not a sociopathic Nazi.
It’s not drugs, he’s just a douche
Could be both
Totally
Drug fuelled douche
A fragile ego and sense of entitlement could also explain a lot of it. This comes from experience and, thankfully, at least some people can get better.
I dunno man, I’ve done ketamine and it didn’t turn me into a nazi.
Maybe he’s just a bad person.
Narcissism is the main problem with him, K made it worse.
Yep it just makes him unpredictable and more dangerous.
There’s a difference between recreational K use and stuffing it down every opportunity you get. If you’ve done K you know how it looks and Musk looks like that 100% of the time.
I’m not huge into drugs, can someone explain to me why a billionaire takes ketamine? Isn’t it a prescription painkiller?
Shouldn’t he be smoking brainstem of an endangered rainforest frog, or some nameless lab chemical synthesized personally for him?
I suppose it’s just like most drug addicts, you don’t really choose what you get addicted to or when, something just sort of gets its hooks into you at some point and that’s it.
Plus if you factor in having essentially no boundaries on your life (ie infinite money and nobody to tell you no or stop you doing anything, being more-or-less above the law, access to high-quality drugs and world-class healthcare) you can probably go on doing stuff like that pretty much indefinitely. IIRC that’s how Keith Richards said he was able to go on doing drugs for so long - he was loaded so he could always get the good stuff that wasn’t mixed with anything.
It’s a dissociative drug that has long been used as a field anesthetic because there’s a very wide range of doses that are both effective and non-lethal. It’s shown promise in recent years as a treatment for depression and certain other conditions that are resistant to traditional treatments. Ketamine is also sort of fun to do recreationally for the affirmation dissociative effects. Elon Musk is basically a drug addict at this point. He’s abusing it way too often and is healthy or safe to do
I don’t know about ketamine but I have been around people on Amphetamines. He acts like they did. So a guy trying to run 3 companies at the same time would presumably use amphetamines to have the time. You can go for days without sleeping.
I know it’s hard to phantom, but they have human bodies
That react to stimulants just like we
But they aren’t like us
*fathom
Oh man is that really how it’s spelled? Thx
Two different words 🙂
Phantom - a ghost
Fathom - to understand
Fathom is more specifically a unit of measurement for depth of water. If you fathom something, you’ve gauged the depths of the topic.
Oh cool. TIL
Ummm… Billionaires are people? Imma need a source on that.
No, no, no! Notice how I specified that they have human bodies, for this exact reason
Oh yes, thank you for the clarification
Is this a poem?
It’s a haiku, short for high iq
Have you met his mother? That also explains a lot.
You mean his sister?
