I have somewhat of a pet extension to projection theory… Many people who are anti-gay think that it is a choice as they themselves have made that choice. ie. They are repressed bisexual/gay.
Completely unsubstantiated with no evidence but I find it fun to think about as it would explain their complete misunderstanding of it not being a choice. “I made the tough choice and am living with it, why can’t they?!”
I could definitely see that. Their obsession with the idea that kids are being ‘groomed’ to be gay suggests they think it’s a choice. Makes one wonder if they are dealing with internalized uncertainty and cognitive dissonance about their personal choice
Kids really are being groomed by adults into having homosexual thoughts and homosexual arousal. But it’s not the gay adults who are doing it, it’s the homophobic adults. Homophobia causes homoeroticism as a fetish.
I wouldn’t take that article too seriously. It’s not citing any sources directly, and the sources regarding penile plesthysmography were not terribly solid studies, IIRC. Medium is a glorified blog site, much like Elephant Journal.
I grew up with a gay-hating mother. She felt like it was a choice and had lots of books on the matter. It wasn’t until my mid twenties I thought… “who the fuck needs this many books on gay being a choice??”
Lo and behold, a few years later my sister comes out and my mom chastises her because of course you can choose, look at her choosing (after a few rounds of conversation therapy). She couldn’t stand seeing my sister as a happy lesbian and my theory is that it’s because she would never be able to admit to herself that SHE herself could be a happy lesbian if she’d been brave and made different choices.
The sheer amount of energy people put into hating others who just want to be left along is mind blowing.
I remember a discussion with a friends sister. They were making some anti trans argument/joke or whatever, and I butt in with something like “why do you even care? How does it affect you in the slightest?”
She told me this story about how she asked a Costco employee for assistance. “Excuse me, ma’am… ma’am!” And the employee pointedly ignored her and walked away. Then another employee ran up and quietly told her that the employee identified as a male, but that he’d help her.
That was it. That was the one Trans story that she could bring up on how her life was negatively impacted by a Trans person.
At least she accepted how absurd her complaint was when I laughed in her face and told her “and? So Trans people can be dicks just like anyone else?”
I don’t even think that employee was being a dick. He’s a man, the customer was calling for a woman. How’s he supposed to know she wanted his help if she won’t say so? She was just bad at communicating with her words, not his fault.
This is just a fact. If you think sexuality is a choice it’s because you have made it one personally and no one has been able to give me a good reason why it isn’t true.
Yep. I like to use foods as a metaphor. You see, I hate olives. But I’m physically capable of making the choice to eat them by the handful, with a big grin, and proclaim my love for them to the world.
I can do that… But it wouldn’t change the fact that I hate olives.
Perhaps the better metaphor would he cilantro. Which to some people tastes like soap. Though sometimes I wonder if I also think it tastes a bit like soap, and maybe I’m just less picky
That’s a given, as far as I’m concerned. When someone tells me they think sexual orientation is a choice, I ask them, “When did you decide to be straight? Because if you chose to be straight, then you must have felt some attraction to the opposite sex. If not, then there was never a choice to be made.”
While I think that would describe a significant portion of the people who are dedicated to the ‘choice’ narrative, there are also a large number of gay and lesbian people who have been coerced into pretending to be straight and are parroting what worked on them. They are choosing to act opposite their inherent sexuality because of social pressure.
There are some objective methods to measure sexual attraction for men where you attach electrodes that measure blood flow to the penis. With these tools there have been studies that have shown those who are homophobic show more attraction to men. The same thing is found for those with transphobes as well. Just like who you like without shame.
I have somewhat of a pet extension to projection theory… Many people who are anti-gay think that it is a choice as they themselves have made that choice. ie. They are repressed bisexual/gay.
Completely unsubstantiated with no evidence but I find it fun to think about as it would explain their complete misunderstanding of it not being a choice. “I made the tough choice and am living with it, why can’t they?!”
I could definitely see that. Their obsession with the idea that kids are being ‘groomed’ to be gay suggests they think it’s a choice. Makes one wonder if they are dealing with internalized uncertainty and cognitive dissonance about their personal choice
https://medium.com/@viridiangrail/the-link-between-homophobia-and-being-gay-youve-got-it-the-wrong-way-round-07d4b017d2ec
Kids really are being groomed by adults into having homosexual thoughts and homosexual arousal. But it’s not the gay adults who are doing it, it’s the homophobic adults. Homophobia causes homoeroticism as a fetish.
I wouldn’t take that article too seriously. It’s not citing any sources directly, and the sources regarding penile plesthysmography were not terribly solid studies, IIRC. Medium is a glorified blog site, much like Elephant Journal.
Yes, that blog is my blog.
I grew up with a gay-hating mother. She felt like it was a choice and had lots of books on the matter. It wasn’t until my mid twenties I thought… “who the fuck needs this many books on gay being a choice??”
Lo and behold, a few years later my sister comes out and my mom chastises her because of course you can choose, look at her choosing (after a few rounds of conversation therapy). She couldn’t stand seeing my sister as a happy lesbian and my theory is that it’s because she would never be able to admit to herself that SHE herself could be a happy lesbian if she’d been brave and made different choices.
Anecdotal of course, but…
The sheer amount of energy people put into hating others who just want to be left along is mind blowing.
I remember a discussion with a friends sister. They were making some anti trans argument/joke or whatever, and I butt in with something like “why do you even care? How does it affect you in the slightest?”
She told me this story about how she asked a Costco employee for assistance. “Excuse me, ma’am… ma’am!” And the employee pointedly ignored her and walked away. Then another employee ran up and quietly told her that the employee identified as a male, but that he’d help her.
That was it. That was the one Trans story that she could bring up on how her life was negatively impacted by a Trans person.
At least she accepted how absurd her complaint was when I laughed in her face and told her “and? So Trans people can be dicks just like anyone else?”
Probably wasn’t even a true story. Sounds like the type of vague shit that gets circulated on Facebook.
I don’t even think that employee was being a dick. He’s a man, the customer was calling for a woman. How’s he supposed to know she wanted his help if she won’t say so? She was just bad at communicating with her words, not his fault.
This is just a fact. If you think sexuality is a choice it’s because you have made it one personally and no one has been able to give me a good reason why it isn’t true.
Yep. I like to use foods as a metaphor. You see, I hate olives. But I’m physically capable of making the choice to eat them by the handful, with a big grin, and proclaim my love for them to the world.
I can do that… But it wouldn’t change the fact that I hate olives.
Not the best metaphor, because you can force yourself to like a food by continuing to eat it.
Perhaps the better metaphor would he cilantro. Which to some people tastes like soap. Though sometimes I wonder if I also think it tastes a bit like soap, and maybe I’m just less picky
That’s a given, as far as I’m concerned. When someone tells me they think sexual orientation is a choice, I ask them, “When did you decide to be straight? Because if you chose to be straight, then you must have felt some attraction to the opposite sex. If not, then there was never a choice to be made.”
I think the ones who are the most adamant about it being a choice are likely to actually be bi/gay.
While I think that would describe a significant portion of the people who are dedicated to the ‘choice’ narrative, there are also a large number of gay and lesbian people who have been coerced into pretending to be straight and are parroting what worked on them. They are choosing to act opposite their inherent sexuality because of social pressure.
There are some objective methods to measure sexual attraction for men where you attach electrodes that measure blood flow to the penis. With these tools there have been studies that have shown those who are homophobic show more attraction to men. The same thing is found for those with transphobes as well. Just like who you like without shame.
I have to wonder how they persuaded homophobic men to sign up to such a study.
“Scientifically prove you’re not gay! We’ll even give you a certificate that states how straight you are!”
Penile plethysmography is not actually a very accurate way of measuring sexual attraction. It’s just the best thing that we have right now.