Lots of comments complaining about restaurants not being inclusive, but it’s unrealistic to expect others to bend to your needs.
I can’t go to a vegan joint and get upset when they don’t want to serve me a steak.
Nor can I het upset when a restaurant isn’t Halal.
If you want vegan, go to a place that sells vegan food.
I’ll go ahead and recommend HappyCow for anyone looking for plant-based options outside of their home community.
They have a map where people can suggest places that have vegetarian or vegan options but are mostly omnivorous, or full on vegetarian or vegan restaurants, cafes, grocery stores, food trucks, you name it. I think HappyCow the company also verifies the places people upload so it’s somewhat vetted.
I find that starting with HappyCow and then cross-referencing with Google Maps or OSM gives me the best results.
No way this is real.
The waiter would have said “Non.”
No she was in a deep shock that she forgot her mother tongue and the brain switched to the next available language.
and the brain switched to the
next availablefactory default language, English.
… wouldn’t that be pronounced the same, though?
Non
Non is pronounced without a complete final n, but air diverts through the sinuses as if you did pronounce the n. Or even as if you said nōng, but didn’t finish saying the g.
Yes, it was joke. To those who don’t speak French, it just sounds like “no” with a French accent.
“No”, on the other han, does not sound like “non” to the French; they’re used to differentiating nasal versus non-nasal vowels.
😳
In Italy, at “L’Isola della Pizza” in Rome, I asked the guy if I could get a pizza with salami, pepperoni, and sausage, and the guy was like “ah, American style!”
I’m a french vegetarian living in France after living 6 years in Scotland, France is years behind on the diet inclusion issue, I was shocked how difficult it was to find a place to eat out in Paris, way too many cafe/restaurant/etc… gets defensive and refuse to serve you if you don’t have the “historical diet” (whatever that means) of france, and a lot of them don’t offer any “common alternative diet” options on the menu. And it’s not better outside of Paris.
Then of course there are some great places that try to include everyone regardless of their diet, and they are increasing in numbers, but they are still the exception rather than the norm which is a shame.
If you ever goes in Paris and looking for a fully vegetarian classy restaurant, I recommand “Polichinelle”, it’s a bit on the expensive side (~50 euro/person), but it’s high level cuisine, and for a special occasion it’s really worth it.
Italy is just as bad with this kind of stuff, at least in my experience. I’m not even vegan or vegetarian, but I saw it happen a lot when I was there. They had the same kind of “historical diet” excuse, and I’m sitting here thinking “you fuckers didn’t even get tomatoes until the 16th century and now you’re acting like you invented them.”
I hate food purists so much.
Not many vegan options around, but one place in Sorrento made me the best vegan pizza I ever had when I asked (there was nothing vegan on the menu). No vegan cheese necessary, I think it was the crust and oil that made it. Got bored of the same tomato pasta item every night at the hotel though.
One of the most basic pizza, the marinara (tomato, oil, garlic, oregano) is technically vegan and any pizzeria worth its name will have it on the menu.
Interesting, thanks. The Sorrento place was a cafe so they didn’t specialise in pizza, but it sure was good. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a marinara pizza marked vegan here in Oz. They probably all use bulk garlic sauce bottles with milk as ingredient.
I’m guessing you’re not in Melbourne then, but Red Sparrow is a fully vegan pizza restaurant with a few locations there. Very good, from what I’ve heard.
Never been to Italy, but I expected it would be even worse over there, Italians are often very invested in their opinion about food😄 some of my Italian friends can spend the whole meal debating about what they are eating
Pasta too lol Cut it with the knife and you get to eat for free… until they kick you out
All of Europe is highly anti veg. As it should be.
Proof: just trust me bro.
You’ll be hard-pressed to find a German restaurant without a good choice of vegetarian options and at least some vegan ones. Germany is about 2% vegan, 10% ovo-lacto-vegetarian, and 55% flexitarian. That’s 67% of the population having an active look at those choices and you’d be very out of place with “if there’s no meat it’s not food” comments. You just insulted a huge number of quite cherished traditional dishes.
Go on, go, go to Swabia and say that Käsespätzle are not food. I’m waiting. They’ll probably lock you into a madhouse.
A French person decrying the lack of quality food in Paris in comparison to Scotland. British cuisine is truly amazing.
Haha, Indeed the irony is at its maximum. Although, I think haggis was pretty good (even the vegetarian version)
While I’m talking about it, have you guys seen the documentaries about wild haggis ? https://youtu.be/tvLXG4_SoO4
The French are actually quite conservative in many ways.
I am not a vegan but oat milk lattes are the best lattes. They are creamy, rich with flavor that’s perfectly aligned w the coffee, lower in calories & more sustainable than classic dairy.
Everyone should try them once at least.
I like oatmilk in general. Oatmilkshakes are also awesome and oatmilk is way better in cereal
Too many people tried soy milk or almond milk and it has unfortunately turned them away from dairy alternatives. Oatmilk leagues above all the rest.
Soy milk slays on protein though. If that’s important to you.
I also didn’t like soy milk at first now I have it with cereal almost daily, so I guess it’s also getting used to the flavour.
Definitely. Though I do quite like chocolate almond milk! I find almond milk tk be a tolerable alternative some of the times but ugh soymilk
Oat milk things out frozen drinks but I agree it’s delicious all the same.
I must keeping getting crap oatmilk. I always feel like it’s watery, and I shake it before pouring.
I also drink whole milk, and think anything under 2% might as well be water. Unless it’s a chocolate milk full of thickeners instead of just milk and chocolate.
I also get plain, because I don’t want added sugar.
Suggestions?
Oatly barista in the grey cartons is hands down the best IMO after trying loads of other brands. I get it at publix in the US or Tesco in the UK
.
But Oatly has shitty additives
Oaty brand oat milk.
They have some kind of special ingredient that keeps everything properly emulsified.
Warning it’s not cheap. I maybe buy a carton a week.
Forager Project has a nice oatmilk. I like it better than Oatly.
You have to go for the stuff with added fat - barista style - to get anything approaching decent.
A lot of brands make extra creamy versions that work better in coffee imo. Some sell a barista version which is also extra creamy and designed to steam well for lattes. Theyre more calorie dense though, so you kinda lose one of the main benefits. My favorite milk for lattes is ultra-filtered whole milk.
Mighty is the best brand I’ve tried by a margin, they do a barista one but for an all round milk replacement the whole m.lk is great. They use a blend of oat and pea though I think
Starbucks gets watery oat milk I dunno
Just use whole milk.
I do.
But I have vegan and lactose intolerant family and friends. So I try to keep shelf stable options on hand for when they visit.
After they leave, I use what’s left so it’s not wasted, and would prefer an option that I like too.
Makes sense.
Maybe try cachew milk? It’s pretty tasty.
Yes! The moment I tried oatmilk I realized the nuttiness of the oat compliments the coffee bean aromas making it the superior milk for espresso drinks
I just made a smoothie with a frozen berry blend I got from Costco. Yep, I used oatmilk
I don’t think this story/tweet is real. Or maybe just the misunderstanding that the restaurant didn’t have oat milk on hand.
Totally agreed that oat milk superior flavor for many different applications. Milk from a tiyty just ain’t it for smoothies and stuff. I don’t make any smoothies with animal milk.
lower in calories
not everyone wants that.
Lowering the calories makes room to compensate with bacon grease.
Yeah but that makes my coffee taste funny.
The barista stuff isn’t that much lower in calories than dairy milk. The rest is true though: delicious, sustainable, microfoam-able.
This is the real answer. The french aren’t the pretentious ones in this story, they’re the plebs who don’t know any better haha
(All in good fun)
No, they just have way better milk than us
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The quality of oatmilk varies wildly based on the brand. I’m not a fan of Kirkland or Oatly but Califia and Silk are delicious.
Jesus. Oatly is by far the best. By far. Especially the barista style.
I also like it but it didn’t feel any healthier than regular milk, I don’t have the macros in mind anymore but I think half full milk was better when I did look it up a while ago.
Agree with this, regular but unsweetened has much less fat and sugar.
Barista style oat milk is fantastic, froths so nicely.
I just bought one last week. Works well. Enjoyable but clearly different than whole milk.
Sticking to it for health.
For health reasons you might take it a step further one day, the unsweetened versions have a lot less fat and sugar in them. I got used to it after barista oat milk and now I prefer the more coffee-y taste of my coffee tbh
I agree. My preference goes oat then whole. I like the nuttiness that the oat milk adds. Local café was doing a monthly special, and they’re the best in the county so I tried it. It became my regular order.
Have you looked at the ingredients of oat milk?
It’s water with vegetable oil and just enough oats for the taste.
I’m lactose intolerant. What’s your point?
My point is, that oat milk lattes are not the “best” lattes, they’re oily not creamy, and that the flavor of oats does not align with coffee.
I’m diabetic and have to avoid lactose too, amongst many other things.
Oat milk might be a fine beverage, if you’re into oily watery horse food, but a substitute for proper milk it is not.
Milk is just watery fatty cow food with some extra steps involved.
Not really. It’s a mammalian excretion that has literally been refined over millions of years to deliver an infants nutritional requirements.
I drink milk, but milk isn’t superior to oat milk.
mammal milk has specific ingredients that are meant to specifically feed infants of that animal. So its often high in fat and has specific things that are meant to be digested by that animal. Breast milk from a human has special ingredients that help digest the high lactose content and those ingredients are not in other milks.
Now Oats have been designed over years to be digested by humans and other animals. They propagate by being consumed and then travel to other areas post consumption. The nutrition in oats and other vegetables is mostly there specifically to drive animals like us to eat them so that we propagate them.
Of course proper milk is superior to oat milk.
If you were stuck on a desert island and could have an infinite supply of either it would be an absurdity to choose the oat milk over cows milk.
It’s true that cows milk is intended for calves and it’s probably not advisable for an adult human to consume exclusively cows milk, but it’s an absurdity to claim that cows milk is less nutritionally valuable than oat milk.
Oats have been domesticated by humans over a few short millennia because of their ease of cultivation and longevity in storage. Lets not conflate convenience with nutritional quality. Besides which oat milk doesn’t contain much in the way of oats anyway.
As long as that infant happens to be a cow
You’re trying really hard to be objectively correct about this silliness. No wonder there’s a stigma about coffee snobs.
I’m not trying to be objectively correct at all.
It’s just really easy to make fun of people who drink poncy “milk” because everyone secretly wants it to be some magical elixir delicately squeezed from the nipples of plump little oats tended by fat little bumble bees in Tasmania.
I’m not trying to be objectively correct at all.
Literally you: “Of course proper milk is superior to oat milk.”
That’s very obviously a subjective statement.
Have you seen what they feed cows? Think I’ll stick with the oats and vegetable oil 😉
You mean grass?
You keep that ignorance as long as you can bud.
One of us sure is ignorant.
We don’t have feedlot dairy’s here.
You can literally go for a drive and watch dairy cows eat green grass.
They wrap hay bales in this plastic stuff that makes the hay start to ferment which apparently the cows fucking love to eat.
(Side note: that fermented hay is called Silage and fun fact it’s one of the single foulest smelling substances produced by humanity. Smells more like raw sewage than actual raw sewage, and frequently triggers asthma attacks. Cows, inexplicably, go absolutely ape for it. A silage farm near where I grew up had frequent breakins from nearby pastured cows who had figured out the latches so they could sneak in.)
The one I drink has 11%, which seems plenty. At some point it’d become thin porridge, and I don’t want to drink that.
“I am not a vegan but”
HAHAAH, INSERT FUNNY THEY TELL YOU JOKE!!1!
If they don’t have oat milk, what should’ve they said?
We wanted to order pizza and I told my girlfriend (who is Italian) that I might order Pizza Hawaii. Her reflexes kicked in and she bit me.
So tasty that she had to get at the residuals
This does qualify as blasphemy.
Cook carbonara with cream next
I like Pizza Hawaii, that doesn’t mean I’m a war criminal.
Is calling it Pizza Hawaii new? Seen it three times in this thread but I’ve never seen it anywhere before. Usually people just say Hawaiian pizza. Which is the inferior version of pineapple on Pizza by the way.
I don’t know. I actually never heard of Hawaiian Pizza before.
Make it with powdered eggs and American bacon to capture the pure, traditional heritage of the dish.
username checks out.
I’m pretty sure the Italians would take the war criminal over you.
Source: food debates with Italian friends
I’m curious what part of the world you’re from? I’ve never seen it phrased as “Pizza Hawaii” and it hits my brain like a wall just the same as hearing “Pizza Margarita”.
Oh my Gucciness, my mom did that while I was growing up. I learned how to get my carbonara on when I moved to Europe. Damn, I love the traditional carbonara.
Now go to Rome and get it there. I really miss proper carbonara and Amatriciana after moving from Rome to northern Italy.
My bro is legit visiting Rome this week. Will demand he do this. Thanks!
Tell him to not go to restaurants within sight of a famous monument and never if there is someone in the street convincing people to come in.
Or if you want a concrete recommendation, go to Zi Umberto in Trastevere for awesome Roman peasant food. But you need to book.
Rn he and his two young daughters are at Piazza Navona. Gimme the action list, youItaliansz.
Would you suggest I try the Bucatini Amatriciana at Zi Umberto?
Absolutely. And if they have the zucchini flowers for starter. And it’s all good, really.
I can’t remember if Artichokes are in season… I think I saw some at the market yesterday, but if they are then the Romans do great things with them. Both Roman and Jewish style.
Curious, is their preference guanciale o pancetta? I tried both, and guanciale is my favorite.
guanciale, 100%.
If you want to piss off an italian make carbonara with cream and pancetta
The memes about this with Italians have made me never want to even so much as converse with an Italian about food. No, there’s no right way to do anything, there’s just ways that work and ways that don’t and being an asshole (sorry I’ve seen a bunch of obnoxious TikToks) doesn’t make you more right, it just makes you more insufferable. There was one particular series of shorts that kept popping up for me with an Italian guy and his American girlfriend that always revolved around him getting angry at her cooking and every single time I wanted to be able to punch that chode in his Adam’s apple repeatedly until he could never speak again.
Shes a keeper.
Now show her this (hint: top-left corner).
Once in Italy my wife tried ordering a pizza with chicken and they just straight up laughed at her and said ‘Not in Italy!’, but like… not in a mean way.
Well yeah, nobody calls it that. It’s Hawaiian Pizza.
“Nobody”
Is it just in Germany then?
I am almost sure it’s also in Italy. But gf is sleeping. Can’t ask.
Edit: Ok, I woke her up and it’s a bit more complicated. You usually say things like Pizza con “ingredient” or Pizza alla “stuff”. There are some pizzas that a famous and these are called Pizza “Name”. So, if the country of Italy ever would accept the existence of Pizza Hawaii, it would be called that.
To be fair, Italian pizza is a separate beast entirely, essentially a completely different food.
True.
Damn, just when you are about to forgive a country for their misdeeds.
The Dutch do it like this too, but I don’t know who started it
Literally going to be flying to Paris today.
Good to know I guess lol.
This never happened. They would have given him a cup of black coffee and said " bro you’re in France now"
The French are right. When you have fabled cuisine, lauded all over the world as the gold standard… you get resistant to change. And rightfully so.
Putain, non, is indeed the proper response to said question.
Food snobs might be one of my least favorite types of humans there are. The minute I hear/see someone start talking about how they would never eat that or whatever other bullshit, is almost like I’m hearing them start talking about the good things Trump is doing for everyone. Let’s never cross paths again, you’re insufferable.
In this thread, most of both the French and the vegans are insufferable. I like a nice strong black coffee and I don’t eat a lot of meat, but there’s a reason I don’t really want to go back to Paris or to half of the vegan restaurants I try.
Either that, or oat milk isn’t on the menu and he didn’t have any.
I’m also referring to this thread.
Then that is a failure on the business. It is a very common request.
It’s only a failure if they wanted to do that kind of business. If I open an Italian restaurant and someone orders Thai, did I fail?
“Do you have eggs? Yes. Do you have noodles? Yes. Do you have curry paste? Yes. Do you…”
~ worst customer you will ever meet
There is a difference between a restaurant of a specific cusine and plainly deniying acommodating for common dietary preferences. Be it for health or ethical reasons. I guess in most cuisines worldwide there are either plenty of suitable dishes already available or they should be at least easy to accomodate. But sometimes it seems it’s even too much of an ask to leave out some simple ingredients.
Sure. There is a scale where my example was an extreme for illustration. Your point a very reasonable one as well. If I was running a a cafe I would offer it but I am Canadian. If I were french and you asked for a baguette olive loaf you would find yourself in a guillotine. Context matters and traditions matter more than commerce in many cultures.
“Deny accommodating for common dietary preference”, how? Have your coffee black, there, completely lactose-free. If you ask for a latte, don’t be surprised when you get milk. If you don’t want milk, don’t order a latte. Do you know what “latte” translates to?
Seems like more a failure of you for not checking if they do oat milk. And they likely do lots of other types of vegan milk as alternatives
Honestly, the kind of person who gets pissy about this kind of thing, you’re probably better off not having in your restaurant or cafe anyway. Because they’ve probably got a list of food requirements
I have a friend with actual gluten intolerance, and she stopped telling restaurants about it specifically because otherwise they’d freak out. She’d just order things like minimal gluten and only ask if she wasn’t sure.
But she’d never ask for substitutions either
There is no way of knowing how busy this place is. They might be completely full and serving 10 different types of milk might simply slow things down and increase their risk if they accidentally mix the containers
It’s not common at all.
“At all”?
In the year 2024, Oatly had annual revenue of $823.67M with 5.15% growth. Oatly had revenue of $214.32M in the quarter ending December 31, 2024, with 4.99% growth.
Oatly’s key markets are Sweden, Germany and the United Kingdom. The company’s products were available in 60,000 retail stores and 32,200 coffee shops around the world as of 31 December 2020.
Do you really think that Sweden, Germany and UK is all the world there is? I’ve got a surprise for you.
I get the sneaking suspicion you enjoy being contrarian for contradictions sake.
Yes. About 2/3rd of the worldwide population is lactose-intolerant. Hence, it is really common to ask for lactose-free products.
That’s a myth really. Lactose intolerant don’t drink lattes in the first place. But they might not be that intolerant in the first place
Most of the lactose-intolerant population isn’t asking for lattes for the simple reason that their cuisine doesn’t use dairy at all.
Also FWIW Italy is quite lactose-intolerant. It’s why you hear things like “no cappuccino after noon” and stuff, many Italians don’t vibe well with more than one of those things.
In Europe, dairy intolerance is actually extremely rare. It’s Asia where intolerance is common
You can’t use worldwide stats to represent a localised region
I mean, it really depends on their delivery.
If they’re acting like it somehow un-stinks their shit, ok fuck off.
However, there are certain foods that everyone loves that I simply cannot stand. Cake, is a big one. I will actively seek against eating cake. It frequently leaves me feeling gross, especially on an empty stomach. I do not see it as good. I can understand someone speaking about food like that.
I was on vacation in Flavigny, an incredibly beautiful small village in Burgundy. I wanted my green beans straight from the garden behind the restaurant without butter and asked to use olive oil instead. The waiter was like “Why!?”. It took me five minutes to convince him, he was absolutely unsympathetic and I think I had to pay extra. :)
Honestly, there is a bit of a pride fight in France between the butter cuisines at the North of the Loire river and the olive cuisines at the South of the Loire. So it might not be that much against the idea of make the dish vegan.
Still that useless, stupid pride. I cook burgeondy dishes with olive oil whenever I feel like it and it is still very good. Not quite the same taste but delicious nevertheless.
That’s interesting information, thanks!
Your welcome (^_^)
Have you had a chance to try one of their anices?Yeah, they’re great. I love Burgundy.
But it’s a long trip from western Germany, that’s why I don’t go as often as I’d like to.
il veut qu’on fasse de l’agriculture, c’est ridicule
Why would you eat beans without butter? Are you barbarian?
i like plain unseasoned green beans, fight me
Straight out of the pot, right! 🙌
I don’t think in barbarian, no. But butter is scary!
WTF is this lunacy? I guess you are a barbarian!
I assure you I am not
So I guess, fuck lactose intolerant, amiright?
“If yeu cannot drink le milk, don’t order le cafe’ with le milk.”
but I’m le tired
well take a nap. Then don’t order the coffee with ze milk!
Fuckin kangaroos.
Paradox of tolerance: if we allow the lactose intolerant to exist amongst us, their intolerance will not tolerate our tolerationess. First they came for the milk, and I said nothing for I was not a cow…
Then they came for the guns and I said nothing because I’m not a pig…
I’d imagine most French people who are lactose intolerant just take their coffee without any kind of milk.
Not sure if that’s a thing in France, but alternatively to plant milk for lactose intolerant
- Lactose-free milk (there are versions with lactose removed instead of broken down, that aren’t sweet and taste basically the same as normal milk)
- Lactase enzyme taken together with the coffee, to break lactose down
I don’t really see plant milk as the lactose-intolerant variant, but a vegan option, but that might just be due to the fact Finland has lactose-free milk available as an option basically everywhere as milk is such an important part of the coffee culture.
I think if you’d rank all European countries according to how important milk is in their coffee culture, France might be at the bottom. Although I’m not sure about south-eastern countries regarding this, they might score low too.
Yep, I also think the French in general don’t really appreciate Finnish coffee culture, if their presidents reaction is anything to go by. Still one of my favourite pictures.
Nice, was this in Finland?
Yep, I think it’s from Helsinki market square – and not sure if this needs to be said but not taken by me 😅
Yes.
I love France they take food and tradition seriously while at the same time their own government is afraid off them.
All governments should be afraid of their people. The French ae doing something right.
If I were a government, I’d be afraid of French traditions, too.
