People in this thread are hitting us with all sorts of whatabout stories with extreme conditions; and meanwhile I’m working in a office where people will come in and turn on the cooling because they just walked up some stairs, and then turn on the heating after they’ve sat down for a couple of minutes. No concept of self regulation. Just any hint of discomfort means the room has to change temperature.
It that context, the pushback in this thread is a bit depressing.
This is a great way to mess with the self appointments lords of the thermostat as they caw their favorite sayings like “Wear a sweater” and “turn the lights out when you leave the room”.
It’s the nuclear age grandpa. I’m cranking my thermo to 23. Take your shirt off if you’re warm.
No pants it is then.
-40° and a newborn say otherwise
You’re supposed to put the sweater on the newborn and not just yourself in this scenario
Make sure you put the sweater on yourself first
They’re going to need slightly more than a sweater.
Two sweaters?
Haha, but no this is a serious issue, kids died in Texas last winter because parents didn’t realize it could get cold enough to kill them inside their house.
… why is texas?
Because large parts of Texas aren’t used to being cold. They’re hot desert climates and while a 75 degree night after a 110 degree high feels cold, it won’t kill you. So when they got nights at 32 degrees and their electricity was out it was something of a shock.
“This meme was made by someone in a warm climate.”
I mean, I’m in Moscow and it’s barely below 0 degC.
But - yes.
Why is everyone in this thread Richard Byrd?
Most people I know wear t-shirts at home in winter and heat up the house to compensate, wasting energy. This meme is clearly aimed at them.
If you live in arctic conditions, then you probably already wear more than a shirt, even at home. If not, then feel adressed as well.
And to the many people who are currently raising their babies at home: Scandinavian practices be damned. I understand that it’s not too practical to regularly wrap up your baby so that they can withstand freezing conditions. Fine. Turn up the damn thermostat. You already have a screaming infant at your hands.
Everyone else: stfu.
-20 ºC winters have entered the chat
Wearing a sweater still makes sense there. To spend less energy.
But in that case it’ll be more a matter of heat isolation. Though when such a low temperature exists on the outside consistently, air humidity drops and it sucks heat less. I think it works this way, but that’s pure intuition or something, my physics knowledge sucks definitely.
I doubt they could pass the Turing test.
Build your house better
Igloo effect
Ah yes let me just unbuild my house like minecraft
Either you’re smart enough to realize that’s accurate or dumb enough to think it’s a point
K, filled my apartment’s living room with ice and snow, doesn’t seem to be helping. Did I miss a step?
Yes, understanding insulation
Guys if you keep heating your houses to 15°C or more you’re the cause for climate change and the corporations can’t blow petawatts on their AI data centers c’mon don’t be so selfish
My flat grows mold if I leave it under 18C for too long and my landlord doesn’t care 🥴
Mmmm, mold.
I’m right with you on that though. Small basement apartment with a concrete floor that was built in the 1930s. Yep. Mold.
Yeah how else will ChatGPT tell you how to distribute (a^2 +b2)(c2+d^2)? /s
I’m sorry, me heaters are set to 16°C 😢
In my defence they don’t go any lower than that for some reasonSome reason being that if you don’t maintain a certain temperature in your house you’ll get mildew problems.
That’s basically the minimum requirement to avoid structural decay. You should not be letting your place get any colder than that.
True, but also let’s not just let ourself dash toward suicide. Society is not meant to sustain nudism in the middle of winter 24/7.
Just wear a sweater bro
come to florida! hehe
Both uses are a problem, one is just more unnecessary than the other.
Being comfortable is unnecessary. If you’re not suffering as much as this guy, you’re the problem with society.
Is there a limit to comfort?
For me it’s about two hands. That’s where I max out.
People can get injured if it’s too cold. They can lose sleep, which is a problem over time. With our level of technology, life doesn’t ever need to hurt.
Exactly. The usual context of “comfort” contains an unsaid word: “sufficient”.
Yep. With the understanding that sufficient is different for everyone.
Not that different
> *buys new iPhone*
> *uses Google as primary search engine*
> *doesn’t use adblocker*
> *pays for youtube*
> *pays for spotify*
> *pays for netflix*
> *buys brand clothes*
> *doesn’t give a shit about monopolies, worker conditions, product origins, nothing*
> Guys, it’s the corporation’s fault for making all these products for me to buy!
there is no ethical consumption under capitalism
I find that quite the platitude.
When is consumption ever “ethical”? Is hunting animals to survive ethical? Is killing plants to survive ethical? Is modification of the environment for survival ethical? Life itself is destructive because in order to survive, something else must die. In order to make life more enjoyable, even more must die and suffer. This is not limited to capitalism but any form of survival.
If we were 4 billion people on the planet without global trade, markets, businesses, advanced technology, and so on, we would still kill everything around us, go to war, enslave, rape, subjugate, and consume.
that phrase doesn’t really attempt to tackle the general idea of consumption, just the one under capitalism.
It’s a response to the phenomenon where seemingly no matter what you buy, no matter where you buy it, somewhere along the supply chain someone got hurt or got taken advantage of, and the environment was most likely hurt as well.
Ethical people (ignoring the definition of what that means as i’m not really feeling like writing an essay) usually want to avoid any products that cause someone or something to be harmed during production. But under capitalism that’d mean never buying technology again and having to quit society as having a smartphone is mandatory nowadays, though you’d probably starve first if your best friend isn’t a 100% eco friendly farmer (and even then that farmer probably uses a combine which is made out of quite a few parts, production of at least one or two definitely involved some form of abuse)
So the slogan “there is no ethical consumption under capitalism” highlights the fact it’s not an individual’s fault, and the invidivual is not to blame, when they buy something that unknowingly (or knowingly but out of necessity) brought harm to the people or the environment involved in making the thing.
In the olden days you could feasibly survive by being a farmer who kills maybe a couple of his stock a year for meat. You knew exactly where your patatos came from (your field), you knew exactly where your clothes came from (your best friend is the town seamstress), you knew exactly where you furniture is from (the lumberjack who gets wood for the carpenter is your brother).
But then things got more complicated, and capitalism encourages cutting ethical corners in favour of profit
It’s a response to the phenomenon where seemingly no matter what you buy, no matter where you buy it, somewhere along the supply chain someone got hurt or got taken advantage of, and the environment was most likely hurt as well.
I call this the Doug Fawcett Principle
good name for it indeed! The Good Place is a fantastic show
that phrase doesn’t really attempt to tackle the general idea of consumption, just the one under capitalism.
Yes, exactly why I said it’s a platitude. It’s thoughtless and trite. I’m saying: consumption is not ethical, no matter which system. There is no ethical consumption.
So the slogan “there is no ethical consumption under capitalism” highlights the fact it’s not an individual’s fault, and the invidivual is not to blame, when they buy something that unknowingly (or knowingly but out of necessity) brought harm to the people or the environment involved in making the thing.
That’s a cop out. It paints consumers as mere puppets or robots who are unable to make choices or decisions that could lead to a reduction of suffering.
In the olden days you could feasibly survive by being a farmer […]
The good ol’ days, how many times have I heard that one. In the good ol’ days there was often imperial rule. In the good ol’ days, slave trade was the norm. In the good older days, your little town or village could be overrun by wandering horde of Mongols or even just the next village over that had a different tribe. In the good ol’ days, if you were disabled you were fucked, if you had a different skin color you were fucked, if you were a woman you were figuratively and literally fucked, if you got sick any “incurable disease” you were not fucked, you were dead, if you couldn’t work anymore your offspring had to tend to you and if those didn’t exist or weren’t willing to you were fucked, and so on.
It’s nice to romanticise “simpler” days after watching “Gone With Wind”, but life back then was hard af. It was backbreaking. People died at much higher rates than now with little to show for it. People still live absolutely miserable lives, but the rate thereof is much lower in the countries exploiting others.
But then things got more complicated, and capitalism encourages cutting ethical corners in favour of profit
Capitalism doesn’t encourage anything. It’s one of the natural products of human greed. Any other system created by humans is flawed and infected the human disease, doomed to create suffering and torment. The only question is how much. Whether capitalism generates more than other systems is debatable, but to claim that there is “ethical consumption” in any other living system is wishful thinking. It doesn’t exist.
Yes, exactly why I said it’s a platitude. It’s thoughtless and trite. I’m saying: consumption is not ethical, no matter which system. There is no ethical consumption.
That’s a false dichotomy…even if we agreed with your definition of all consumption being unethical, it wouldn’t mean that there aren’t different levels of unethical practices used to produce those consumables.
All consumption being unethical does not mean that all forms of production are equally unethical. If that’s the case you wouldn’t really have a problem with sending the kids back to the mines.
It paints consumers as mere puppets or robots who are unable to make choices or decisions that could lead to a reduction of suffering.
Can you point to a time in history where a general boycott of a dangerous or harmful product was successful without the help of government intervention?
Any other system created by humans is flawed and infected the human disease, doomed to create suffering and torment.
And apparently that doesn’t happen under capitalism? Then what exactly are you bitching about plastic for?
“ethical consumption” in any other living system is wishful thinking. It doesn’t exist.
Again, your argument is based on a forced false dichotomy.
Not to mention that it seems like you are really just a libertarian angry at consumers for participating in the “free market”.
You can’t simultaneously believe that the free market is the best way to regulate the economy, but upset at the people for their consumption habits in a free market.
Perhaps to you the saying is a platitude, but that seems subjective. To someone who hasn’t considered the impacts of their consumption habits, or the ways that different economic systems can serve to reward different patterns of human behavior, it can be a thought provoking statement.
There is no ethical consumption.
If you view ethics as a binary, then sure. If you view ethics as a complex and nuanced spectrum, well, not so much.
Capitalism doesn’t encourage anything.
What a reductionist take, especially considering the paragraph you’d written just above it.
Perhaps to you the saying is a platitude, but that seems subjective
Wow, everything is relative. Do you have any other wise things to say? It’s in the eye of the beholder maybe? There is no truth? There are no absolutes? Want to whip out some tautologies or falsely attribute some quotes to Einstein?
If you view ethics as a binary, then sure. If you view ethics as a complex and nuanced spectrum, well, not so much.
Again with the “everything is relative”. So actually, we’re living in paradise right now, because relative to 5B years ago, earth would be inhospitable. But we are also living in hell because things could be so much better.
Everything is nuanced. Of course it is. Which is why the phrase “there is no ethical consumption under capitalism” is false. You’re just confirming it yourself with your “everything is relative” and “to the esteemed members of the ivory tower with completely formed and immensely folded brains, ethics is an intricate and nuanced spectrum”.
What a reductionist take, especially considering the paragraph you’d written just above it.
Yes, thank you for confirming that you understood nothing of what I wrote.
So just die I guess?
That’s a pretty ridiculous take.
No, Maggot. Think before you consume.
the other person’s reply is good so i won’t repeat their points,
but i also wanted to address the “romanticisation” of the “ol’ days”. Because i did not intend to do that, what i was trying to portray was that it was simpler in the context of the supply chain of your food and belongings. You knew exactly where all your things came from, and the process of creation and aquisition of goods was mostly contained within your village and the village nearby, with the occasional traveller looking to trade
I like how you put paying as the bad thing instead of just using
Using monopolist services and good is bad, but sometimes forced. Paying is most often voluntary and worse as it gives them even more power than just use.
It’s gonna get down to -30°C this week, I’ll turn the heat off and just throw on the good ol’ toque and a sweater and report back, assuming I still have fingers.
I think this meme is mocking the people that turn their house up to 72°F instead of just leaving it at 60°F and wearing a hoodie. The difference in price is quite extreme.
Same here.
But there is middle-ground here. My wife came from a very temperate country. She wants the thermostat set at like, 26.
I’d be happy to have it at 17 and wear sleeves indoors. 9 degrees thermostat difference makes a hell of a dent in the utility bill.
Agreed. Funnily I’m from a more temperature country and she’s from where I’m at now, but she’s the one that is always cold and wants to keep it at ~22. I ain’t gonna argue considering she pays the electricity bill, though.
Team 23.5 represent! My toesies are cold but the rest of me is alright!
26?! Hell, I can’t even sleep if it’s above like 20C in my room. My bedroom right now is 10C (vents blocked to keep it extra cold) and that’s about the perfect sleeping temp. I’d go that cold in the rest of the house too but my pet snake probably wouldn’t appreciate it.
snake tax snake tax snake tax!!
I don’t seem to have any actually good pictures of them in my phone atm and they’re in the middle of a shed right now. So the best I’ve got is a pic from the time they decided slither into my couch frame and made me partially dismantle my couch to get them out. They’re lucky that they’re cute.
aaah handsome baby! Using the single communal braincell to get into trouble is a great honor in their culture, I’ve heard.
Don’t you get nightmares, sleeping in the cold like that?
Nope I sleep like a baby. If it’s too hot them my dreams might get weird though.
I grew up in cold but have spent almost two decades in humid subtropical. If it’s 20ish outside, I usually won’t turn on the heat, but 23 if it gets any colder (though that’s in part because old japanese house loses heat like crazy. 21 is good for me)
19C during the day, 14C at night, 22C in the office because sitting still and concentrating is no way to keep warm.
I can’t wait until it’s warm enough to just keep windows open 24/7 again.
I keep my place at 15.5c in winter because it’s super drafty. (I’m getting the siding redone soon, I really hope that helps, but ultimately we have the same climate as Siberia so there’s only so much to be done) even at 15.5, it’s still about $200 USD/mth to heat, but at 18c it more than doubles in cost.
I’m like your wife; made for warmer climates. My ideal temp is around 30c, and I’m cold at 23, but I have heated mattress pads on my bed and couch (much much much cheaper to run than furnace) so it’s not too bad overall. They are a bit pricy up front, but definitely worth the spend.
Perhaps that sort of thing would be a good compromise for you two; a couple heated chair covers or couch cover or something to bring her temp up while keeping the overall temp lower.
THAT’S VERY COLD
Damn. It’s only 4 degrees for me, but my room still gets cold if I don’t have the heater on max because some moron decided that an entire fucking wall in my room has to be window.
Don’t be lazy. You can type with your toes.
Who said I’d still have toes?
Alright, well, you should at least have a functional nub or two
Unethical life pro tip: get an apartment that isn’t at the end of a hallway and has floors above and below. In some cases, you can turn off your heat completely and simply steal heat from your neighbors, leeching off of them like some sort of thermal mosquito. It won’t be as warm as is comfortable without bundling up, but it may be warm enough to get by just by bundling up. Watch out for freezing pipes though!
For an added techno bonus: install a smart thermostat connected to a camera pointed at the door with facial recognition tech built in. If anyone other than the residents walk in, the thermostat is automatically reset to 72F/22C. That way if you DO burst a pipe, and the landlord walks in, they won’t have any proof you did it!
or… just set the heat only for 55 if the pipes are your only concern. You’ll still save a lot of money on heating, and you won’t have to deal with your stuff getting flooded.
I can confirm that this works. Outside temperatures are right around freezing right now. Indoors, we’re still hovering at around 23C and we have yet to turn on any heating. I wouldn’t call this unethical though. Homes are built this way by design so that you share the heating.
My old apartment was built this way, except it was to share cooling because we lived in a very hot area. I think the insulation or whatever it was supposed to be, was bad because the air conditioning guys were there all summer craning new units onto the top of the buildings. It doesn’t help that nobody would close the breezeway doors and we effectively had a bar of heat running straight through the building. (although maintenance did force the issue right before we left, they removed their ability to stay open.)
my apartment is 25C right now with no heating on and its stuffy as fuck.
good luck finding an apartment that A) will let you install a smart thermostat B) a camera and C) finding an apartment with a 3 pipe climate system as its usually 2 so you dont get to control if its heat or cooling year round.
In the US I’ve generally either had a single system (heat or cooling depending on climate) or a system capable of both controlled by me. I’ve never lived in an apartment where someone else controlled what was happening with my air.
How is this unethical? I live in those conditions and if I turn my heat on I have to walk around naked, the heat from the neighbours is enough
my apartment is like this and it heats up to like 80°F without any thermostat setting even when it’s below freezing outside
A smart thermostat would likely have record of the set and actual temperatures.
Yeah wouldn’t it also be like super cold inside from the temp not being 72F prior to them entering? I mean if it was cold enough to freeze the pipes and all, seems like just they’d be able to tell what’s what as soon as they opened* the door.
Edit: Fixed a typo
Must be nice living somewhere where you don’t even know that pipes can freeze.
Okay, you can heat your house but only to 50 degrees.
Everyone in the metric world:
why are they wearing towels?? freaks
50 degrees is half of sauna temp at best though.
Using what baseline? 50 degrees is half the boiling point of water, using the logical baseline of zero.
Exactly. And 100 degrees is what a good sauna should be. Maybe I could go as low as 80, but 50 is absolutely pointless.
Are we talking about the ambient temperature in the room or something else? Cause room temperature at 100c is immediately life threatening.
It isn’t. The air being 100 degrees and dry isn’t the same as pouring 100 degree water on yourself. You’re only sitting there for like 15-20 minutes. Ask any Finn and I guarantee you that 100 degrees is what you aim for.
I might get heatstroke but my lizard would be so excited. He could run around without his heat lamps.
based celsius moment
Pipes can’t freeze if they’re halfway to boiling, I like your thinking
I usually only go for 20 degrees, but I guess a sauna would be fun
Everyone who has their pipes freeze that I’ve asked said you have to set it to 60 if you really don’t want to risk it to freeze.
Blood circulation in my hands breaks down completely when I get cold, so no. I will not be turning down the heat.
Gloves wear big ass gloves use gloves that make your hands look like Mii character hands big ass spheres attached to the ends of your arms zero functionality just big ol gloves
The older I have gotten, the more true that has been for me. I’m in an enclosed room with its own electric heater and it’s plenty warm in here because I’m comfortable in a T-shirt, but my fingers have been like ice since I woke up well over an hour ago and they aren’t getting warmer.
This is the year my hands and feet started getting cold. It’s been… an adjustment.
I can’t remember when it started for me but it’s like a big red “you’re old now” flag. Sigh.
Right? No me gusta, I wanna go back to being 20 kthxplzbye.
I’m a very chilly person who loses dexterity fast. I find some quick exercises warm me up pretty well.
But yeah you’ve got to heat your space to a minimum of comfort
Fingerless wool gloves.
I’m not the person you replied to, but fingerless gloves don’t fix the big problem of your fingers being super cold due to the poor circulation. My hands feel just fine right now. My fingers, which were warm for a while today, have felt like they were suspended in ice water since the last time I was outside about 45 minutes ago.
I wish there were a good solution like that, believe me I’ve tried to find a good one that will allow me both warm fingers and manual dexterity and not be super uncomfortable (like tight rubber gloves or something), but I haven’t found it yet.
Electrically heated fingerless gloves?
Again, they won’t heat my fingers. Which are what were cold until about 5 minutes ago. It took a lot of holding them under my arms and blowing on them.
Meh I just deal with the purple arms
This meme brought to you by a child in California that doesn’t know what real winter is. It was 20 something here last night and this dipshit thinks a sweater is gonna keep you alive though that.
I live in Canada and tbh I’m with the Chad on this.
Not saying “turn off your furnace” but energy use (and cost) baloons exponentially based on how hot you have your thermostat set at. Lower your thermostat to the point where wearing a sweater indoors is enough and save money. It’s not even just about the money, it’sresponsible energy usage.
And I’d be happy to subsidize the first X GJ/mo to help people keep themselves from freezing, but if people want their apartment to be the tropics that’s gotta be on their dime.
Same with electricity. I’ll subsidize keeping your lights on but I’m not paying you to mine crypto.
Another possible approach is to keep your home cool (keep it above 50 to avoid pipes freezing because that just sucks to deal with regardless of responsibility) and use a small like 200w heater pointed at yourself to warm up some. I live in a century old farm house and do that because it’s drafty as heck in parts of the house and impractical to fully heat the entire house to a fully comfortable temperature once winter truly sets in and it’s consistently around 0F
20 something
Sweater wont keep you alive
Wait till you hear about the latest tech: two sweaters!
I lived up in the mountains for many years, there are risks of frostbite, hypothermia, and death at some temps and no amount of wool will save you. You need heat, most of that time I had a fire place, when I was in a tenant situation the heat was maintained by the management company and we only paid electric, and it was natural gas heaters.
I’m wearing two sweaters even though it’s only 10C (50F) here. I’ve never lived somewhere where it gets very cold, so this is very cold to me.
Two T-shirts, think thin layers
To be fair, you could wear winter gear 24/7. I lived like that for a bit. The real reasons we need heating are structural decay and pets. Pipes burst below 55 and pets don’t do well below 65.
There are real reasons to heat your house besides just wanting to be warm.
“Pipes burst below 55°” hahahahhah what now? “Pets don’t do well below 65°” what the crap is this nonsense. Pipes will burst after they freeze with water in them at a temp at or below 32°, the majority of breeds of dogs and cats will be just fine until it is freezing out, some dog breeds are okay below freezing.
The pipes bursting below 55° rule of thumb is because cold water is at ground temperature (aka very cold in the winter) and the pipes tend to be at the edges of living spaces so will be much cooler than the living space. Additionally, it doesn’t need to fully freeze to burst, just enough to create a blockage temporarily.
Basically, you never know what bizarre choices were made in the utility layout of the home someone lives in so giving a rule of thumb that has a comfortable safety margin is the safest bet
Not everyone has a husky or Maine Coone for a pet. You wanna see what happens to a tropical bird at 45F? It will literally stop eating and starve to death.
And the pipes aren’t getting 55 degrees of heat. They’re getting whatever bleeds into their space and whatever the water is doing.
This is basic adulting shit.
Even plenty of dogs do not do well in low temperatures. I have a half-chihuahua/half-dachshund. He doesn’t have a very thick coat and he hates wearing sweaters so much that he will literally lie there and refuse to move until we take it off. We’ve tried multiple times. We’ve waited like half an hour and he won’t move, he’ll just lay there and whine until we take it off.
I can’t force a dog to tolerate clothing and it’s not like I knew he would refuse to wear a sweater when I adopted him considering it was in the summer.
Pipes are often in crawl-spaces or other outer extremities of structures indirectly heated by the warmth coming from the living spaces of the structure, so 55F is a good rule of thumb in some climates.
Wait till you hear about infants. They are so tiny a human, they can’t deal with the low temps anywhere near as well as an adult, one of the kids that died in the TX freeze was 7. I’m sorry his family didn’t know about body heat and keeping children in the middle of adults to keep warm. I seriously feel grief over this specific loss of life. I just lived in very cold climates that you forget people who never had to learn how to live in extreme cold just don’t know about the basics. Don’t get too close to the fire, don’t sleep alone.
Just set your thermostat to 60 instead of 70
His entire point is no heat just sweaters.
I’m in the UK and have managed to get this far this year using just jumpers and the heat generated from folding at home on a couple PCs.
Nearly caved last week when temps dropped to around 0 but then i found my slippers
Right chilly today innit?
it’s alright. gf had the heater drying rail on and i’m wearing a jumper
I walked to school uphill in the snow BOOOOTTHH WAAAYYYSSSS.
Ok cranky grandpa, go sit back by your space heater.
haven’t seen a shitpost hit a nerve this hard in a while, hahaha!
Must be fun not to have any sensitivity issues and also live somewhere so south that a sweater is enough.
If I’m spending 10 minutes walking between buildings and then an hour sitting in them I’d rather be comfortable for the longer amount of time.
:(
Nice mesh shorts, slut
This instance ain’t big enough
Gets ya from point A to point B.
There was the one guy that always walked to class in strappy sandals, a short sleeved shirt, and shorts. No matter how cold it was outside, in New England, there he was.
Hey I didn’t consent to my picture being released! :)-
I live in a relatively warm part of Canada and let me tell you a sweater alone is not enough 😭
There are plenty of places in the USA Midwest and Europe that get colder.I live in Northern mn where it goes like -40f I don’t wear more then two sweatshirts all of winter I don’t do outside activities in the cold tho
In -40f, if you don’t have artificial heating in your house, your pipes will freeze.
Your pipes can freeze well before that.
Thanks for confirming their comment…
Thank you for the recognition. I could not have done this without my family and my friends. I accept your Thank You in honor of all who have been thanked before me.
Yeah, good luck with only a sweater in Newport VT.
